---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/28/04: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - the Piet network (Michael D Cuy) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: (no subject) (Andimaxd@aol.com) 3. 06:39 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 01/27/04 (Isablcorky@aol.com) 4. 09:29 AM - Landing Gear (dpaul) 5. 09:53 AM - (Michael D Cuy) 6. 10:35 AM - Re: Landing Gear (DJ Vegh) 7. 10:43 AM - Re: Landing Gear (Gadd, Skip) 8. 11:01 AM - Re: corvair conversion cost (Norman Stapelberg) 9. 11:39 AM - Re: Landing Gear (catdesign@intergate.com) 10. 11:46 AM - (Deon Engelmann) 11. 12:11 PM - Model A Piets & aerial of Brodhead-- go heRe: (Michael D Cuy) 12. 12:43 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Gadd, Skip) 13. 01:10 PM - Re: corvair conversion cost (DJ Vegh) 14. 01:46 PM - "Hearty individuals" and cold weather open cockpit flying. (Graham Hansen) 15. 02:16 PM - Re: Landing Gear (John) 16. 02:56 PM - Summer Tour (Rcaprd@aol.com) 17. 02:59 PM - Re: annual Piet Low-n-slow flyin at Benton KS (Rcaprd@aol.com) 18. 03:11 PM - Re: (no subject) (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 03:23 PM - Re: corvair conversion cost (Rcaprd@aol.com) 20. 05:21 PM - Re: (no subject) (hjarrett) 21. 05:29 PM - Re: Landing Gear () 22. 05:55 PM - Re: (no subject) (Andimaxd@aol.com) 23. 06:02 PM - Re: (no subject) (hjarrett) 24. 06:06 PM - Re: (dpaul) 25. 07:05 PM - Re: Summer Tour (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 26. 09:25 PM - Hardware (Rcaprd@aol.com) 27. 09:40 PM - Re: Summer Tour (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:09 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: the Piet network --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Wasn't always so pleasant. Our first few trips to Brodhead in the late 80's early 90's made us not ever want to go back. For new guys on the block, my wife and I were treated pretty nice by most but pretty lousy by the rest. They were a pretty snobby group and you'd think they had just got off of a Lear jet from the left seat instead of a Pietenpol. We were really turned off by that I didn't care to go back for quite a few years. Since Steve Eldredge started this e-mail list in Utah (and Grant MacLaren poured his volunteer time into putting together a great newsletter---which some still bad mouth because they lost a measly $10 or $15 bucks over !!!!) the group has really come together. There might have been the good old boy click thing going when we first got there, I dunno. Anyway, what was super about the last meeting is that I got to meet people from the list in person. Really neat and you feel like you know them already. The new blood in the group over the past 10 years has really improved the quality of the planes we are producing and the willingness to share as much info as possible to get more of these in the air as time goes on. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:59 AM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) In a message dated 1/27/2004 10:18:17 PM Central Standard Time, Rcaprd@aol.com writes: > Max, > You're givin' me the Hiebie Jiebie's !! All the hardware should be > aircraft > grade. The main difference is that aircraft grade bolts have rolled > threads, and if it is painted with a translucent color, it has been through > NDI (Non > Destructive Test). What are these bolts for ? Chuck: I was wondering how long it would be before the Hiebie Jiebie Emails would start rolling in. I'm also very concerned about safety. These bolts are what holds the control sticks to the torque tube. Dad used the wrong size ID tubing (to build the bushing/tube inside the torque tube at the stick pivot point) for a bolt to fit in and it rattles a little. A 1/4" bolt is too small and if he bores it out, to a 5/16"? The bushing that's welded inside the torque tube will be paper thin. I don't think the treads in this application are going to be an issue. I will use aircraft bolts, even here, if I can find a 7mm with a shank instead of threaded all the way up. The alternative, according to my builder (Dad), is to rebuild the entire control system. I can't see it, so I kinda have to take his word on it for now. We have several week to address the problem, I just like to resolve things ASAP. I appreciate your concerns and constructive criticisms, please let me know if you think this is still a safety issue. Thanks in advance, Max ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:28 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 01/27/04 Max, Patience is the word. One thing worse than " 90%" completed is 100% completed, hangared, insured and full tank while watching Mr Johnson and Nathan Moss fly and have fun in your our creation. Let's imagine a little scenario," suppose Teddy Kennedy had flown several hours in his youth and a little along the way then he decides to get his physical renewed so he can fly Bobbie III's 150 some weekend in Palm Beach. The Fed Drs say you will have to have the cardiologist perform all those tests plus a max stress test, the neuro Dr perform all those MRara Is etc. Cost in excess of 13K. Teddy pleads that all he wants to fly is Ted Brousseau's Piet. No way says Mr Fed Dr. Question: How long after the final No from the Feds would it be before some action MIGHT develop on the Sport Pilot issue. Not that ole Corky is implying that politics COULD play a part in the passing of this loooooooong awaited priveledge. Sorry I got off the subject Max, what I really meant to say in this little note that you are mighty welcome to choggie east on I-20 and visit us anytime. You might check with Mr. Edwin Johnson, who likes fine Scotch, and try to arrange a little hop with him. He and Nathan Moss keep the keys. That's personal so I can't speak for him but he is a great guy. Corky in La waiting for those idiots in Washington to get off of it and pass the Sport Pilot issue while I can still walk to my plane even though it's now with a cane. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:25 AM PST US From: "dpaul" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear List, I've found a motorcycle shop in Rosebud Missouri that has hundreds of used motorcycle wheels sorted into bins. I'm going there Saturday to pick out my Piet wheels. Any suggestions as to what to look for and what to avoid? Thanks. Dave Paulsen ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:53 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Dave-- I'd go with aluminum alloy rims vs. steel for weight savings and 40 spoke if they have them over the much more common 32 spokes per wheel. 18 thru 21" diameters would work fine. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:57 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear you'll want something like an 18-20" wheel. try to get one with the widest hub you can.... if you can't find one with at least a 6" hub (and I doubt you will) then you'll have to have some of your own hubs turned. Essentially your just buying the rim ring. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: dpaul Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear List, I've found a motorcycle shop in Rosebud Missouri that has hundreds of used motorcycle wheels sorted into bins. I'm going there Saturday to pick out my Piet wheels. Any suggestions as to what to look for and what to avoid? Thanks. Dave Paulsen = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:18 AM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Dave, Aluminum, 21" and 36 spokes(72 spokes are lighter than 80), also get the widest hubs you can as the angle of the holes will line up better if you build 5 1/2 or 6" hubs. Be sure you check the weld real close, I got 3 rims and 2 of them cracked at the weld when I took the spokes out. Another thing, when you get the tires, make sure they go with the rims, the tires I got have real fat or wide beads and are a REAL pain to seat on the narrow rims. Skip Motorcycle shops, here in Atlanta get $32.00 plus cost of a tube to fix a flat. Message Dave, Aluminum, 21" and 36 spokes(72 spokes are lighter than 80), also get the widest hubs you can as the angle of theholes will line up better if you build 5 1/2 or 6" hubs. Be sure you check the weldreal close, I got 3 rims and 2 of them cracked at the weld whenI took the spokes out. Another thing, when you get the tires, make sure they go with the rims, the tires I got have real fat or wide beads and are a REAL pain to seat on the narrow rims. Skip Motorcycle shops, here in Atlantaget $32.00 plus cost of a tube to fix a flat. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:44 AM PST US From: "Norman Stapelberg" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair conversion cost Thought I'd add my bit in. Also what pitch and dia should I be using(currently 72X48) and only getting 2000RPM Regards Norman Stapelberg ZS-VJA (115Hrs) FASI Also push botton starter motorcycles :-) Saludos Gary Gower Enfield 350 Bullet ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:33 AM PST US From: "catdesign@intergate.com" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "catdesign@intergate.com" One of my rims broke at the weld too. Anyone know if it's ok to reweld (tig) the rim. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Quoting "Gadd, Skip" : > Dave, > Aluminum, 21" and 36 spokes(72 spokes are lighter than 80), also get the > widest hubs you can as the angle of the holes will line up better if you > build 5 1/2 or 6" hubs. > Be sure you check the weld real close, I got 3 rims and 2 of them cracked at > the weld when I took the spokes out. > Another thing, when you get the tires, make sure they go with the rims, the > tires I got have real fat or wide beads and are a REAL pain to seat on the > narrow rims. > Skip > Motorcycle shops, here in Atlanta get $32.00 plus cost of a tube to fix a > flat. > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:28 AM PST US From: "Deon Engelmann" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi I would like to know what the weight penalty is for wooden cabanes and struts. Have anybody made a comparison between wood and steel yet? Deon Engelmann EAA322 Midrand # SA12055 Pretoria South Africa ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:54 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Piets & aerial of Brodhead-- go here: <005c01c3e0a2$3e7848e0$0101a8c0@domain> <4010208B.1000503@speedtrail.net> Group-- some VERY nice photos here: http://webpages.charter.net/gmaclaren/brod03/index.html Mike C. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:13 PM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" Chris, I asked this question several months ago on this list and didn't get any response. Asked around locally and decided it would be ok. The guy who did my welding said I should not put any stress on the rim for 6 months, no problem for me, to give the weld time to harden. Also I think that once the wheel is re-laced, there will be a lot less pressure on the weld. Anyway I have one on my Piet project. Skip - One of my rims broke at the weld too. Anyone know if it's ok to reweld (tig) the rim. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:27 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair conversion cost that's too large for a Corvair if you want to take advantage of the full horsepower. at 2,000 rpm you're getting maybe 55hp at most. You need to spin it up to at least 2600 static. It will unload to about 2800 or so on the rollout giving you almost the full 100hp. You'll need something like a 62x34 through a 66x29. I have a 66x29 on mine and it gets 2700 static. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Stapelberg Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair conversion cost Thought I'd add my bit in. Also what pitch and dia should I be using(currently 72X48) and only getting 2000RPM Regards Norman Stapelberg ZS-VJA (115Hrs) FASI Also push botton starter motorcycles :-) Saludos Gary Gower Enfield 350 Bullet = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:33 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Hearty individuals" and cold weather open cockpit flying. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" To Chuck G., who said it was 4 degrees F outside, and: "Hearty individuals like Shawn Wolk and Graham Hansen, call this 'Pietenpol weather"!!!" Well, I can't speak for Shawn, but this old geezer never flew his Pietenpol when it was THAT cold! I guess the coldest was around 18 degrees F., but that was when I was young and stupid. Now I am old and stupid, but not nearly so tough as I used to be. On November 15, 2000 I flew my Pietenpol to commemorate the thirtieth anniversary of its first flight. The temperature was -6 degrees C (or about 22 degrees F). The flight is well-documented by photographs and, if I get a scanner, I'll post a couple. This anniversary flight was made on wheels; there wasn't much snow. The very first flight was made using Federal A1500A aluminum skis similar to the ones in Shawn's photos. Since then I have used home-made skis made from ash and currently have a set of old Federal SC-1 aluminum skis rigged for the Pietenpol. In recent years snow conditions here have not been favorable for ski flying, but this winter seems to be shaping up to be better. Usually February and March are best because the days get longer, the temperatures moderate, and the chances of getting a sunny day improve. My Pietenpol is an excellent skiplane. How- ever the open cockpit is a serious limiting factor. A nice canopy for the pilot and a cover on the front pit would be great for solo ski flying. Installing a canopy in the front would be more difficult to accomplish. A HISTORICAL NOTE: 75 years ago, in early January, two brave men took off from Edmonton, Alberta in an Avro Avian two-seater biplane, on wheels, to deliver diph- theria antitoxin to Fort Vermilion, about 500 miles to the north. The tem- perature on the ground was -33 degrees F when they left. It was a night- marish adventure and the round trip took several days. After landing at various places along the way, they literally had to be lifted from the cock- pits because they were practically "frozen stiff". This remains one of the greatest feats in the history of bush flying. Their names: W.R."Wop" May and Vic Horner.(The Avro Avian they flew was a wood-and-fabric open cockpit biplane powered by an in-line 4 cylinder Cirrus engine. It was a bit larger and heavier than a Pietenpol Air Camper, having a longer fuse- lage and an extra wing.) NOTE: Wop May was set up to be the 81st victim of Manfred Von Richthofen on an April day in 1918, but the "Red Baron" was shot down while chasing him at a very low altitude.Wop May became a WW I "ace" with 7 victories. Graham Hansen [Pietenpol CF-AUN is in the hangar at Camrose, Alberta, where the current temperature is now only -28 C (-21 F), and I think it will stay there for the time being!] ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:52 PM PST US From: "John" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear MessageHi Skip ; My name is John Ficklen, I live on St George Island, Fl down in the panhandle. I'm on the Piet list but don't send much time on it. My Aircamper is nearly finished. Hope to have it at S&F. I come to Atlanta quite often to see friends and family and would love to see your project. please. PLease send me your phone number and maybe we can make some arangements. Thanks John ----- Original Message ----- From: Gadd, Skip To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com' Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Dave, Aluminum, 21" and 36 spokes(72 spokes are lighter than 80), also get the widest hubs you can as the angle of the holes will line up better if you build 5 1/2 or 6" hubs. Be sure you check the weld real close, I got 3 rims and 2 of them cracked at the weld when I took the spokes out. Another thing, when you get the tires, make sure they go with the rims, the tires I got have real fat or wide beads and are a REAL pain to seat on the narrow rims. Skip Motorcycle shops, here in Atlanta get $32.00 plus cost of a tube to fix a flat. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:16 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Summer Tour --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/04 10:58:45 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky@aol.com writes: << Would like to hear of your/our Post Brodhead tour and what plans you may have finalized. >> Corky, It's good to hear you're back at it. Gonna have to make a bracket or something in your front pit, to carry your cane. I put in a request for vacation several months ago (7/16/04 to 8/16/04) but two weeks will be unpaid. They have to get everyone's request in, before they hand out the OK...I'm still waiting. Assuming everything is GO, Fri./Sat 16/17th I'll be heading 180 to check out some of our 'Texas' Pietenpols. Sun / Mon I'll head 090 to Shreveport, La. I've got a sectional out here, and Shreveport has a double big #8 shaped Class 3 Airspace. Those Magenta circles give me the Hiebie Jiebie's. Where is your airport ?? The Sport Pilot will be passed by then, and from there, We Will Fly 005 direct to Brodhead. Looks like about a 4 day trip. After Oshkosh, I'd like to continue 360, up around Lake Michigan, and then 170 back down thru the state of Michigan, to Columbus OH (big sister lives there), then 090 to Wheeling W V (my hometown). From there, it will be 270 back to Wichita KS. I'm sure there will be other 'Low & Slow' flyers that will join us on some of the legs. Does it sound like a pretty good cross country trip ??? Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:27 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: annual Piet Low-n-slow flyin at Benton KS --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/04 11:14:46 PM Central Standard Time, BARNSTMR@aol.com writes: << Whats the date for the 2004 Benton KS Piet flyin? >> How does October 3 sound ? How can I check to see what weekend is traditionally pretty good 'Pietenpol' weather ? Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:29 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/04 8:15:27 AM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com writes: << Dad used the wrong size ID tubing (to build the bushing/tube inside the torque tube at the stick pivot point) for a bolt to fit in and it rattles a little. A 1/4" bolt is too small and if he bores it out, to a 5/16"? >> Max, Doug Bryant did the same thing when he built the controls for my plane. Flew it that way for about 15 or 20 hours, and couldn't feel the slack at all during flight. About 80 hours ago, I used a piece of brass shim stock rolled in a tube shape, with the 1/4" bolt, to take up the slack. Grease both sides of the shim. This application is in shear, so it's important to have the shank all the way through the bushing, and use a caslte nut / cotter pin, because you don't really tighten up the nut. I carefully check it on every pre-flight. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:03 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair conversion cost --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/04 1:02:35 PM Central Standard Time, norshel@mweb.co.za writes: << Also what pitch and dia should I be using(currently 72X48) and only getting 2000RPM >> Norman, Most of the Continental A65's that I've seen, including mine, has a 72 X 42 wooden prop. Sounds like you have too much prop. Is that you on the business end, or in the driver's seat ? Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:00 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Best way to resolve the problem is buy a bolt that fits and run a static test on it to prove it is stronger than needed by the standard safety margin for the location. You will need to calculate the highest load the bolt will ever see (pretty easy, just find the part that will break first in its load path) and double it just to be safe. Test load the bolt to the double load and you know the weak link will fail LONG before the bolt. I am a FIRM believer in using aircraft grade hardware but it is just silly to rebuild the whole control system when the load the bolt will see in the WORST case is probably 10% of its yield strength. We don't use certified wood, engines, paint, fuel, props or even the design. Safety can come from proper design and testing just as well as from a "certified part" bin. If you show proper analysis of the load and a test of the part to show it is up to the task the FAA won't give you a problem. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN GO AROUND PUTTING IN HARDWARE STORE BOLTS WHEREVER YOU WANT!! (Yes I know I'm yelling) But in this case a little analysis and testing would be a lot easier than rebuilding the whole control system. Hank (Don't forget to corrosion treat the bolt) J ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) In a message dated 1/27/2004 10:18:17 PM Central Standard Time, Rcaprd@aol.com writes: Max, You're givin' me the Hiebie Jiebie's !! All the hardware should be aircraft grade. The main difference is that aircraft grade bolts have rolled threads, and if it is painted with a translucent color, it has been through NDI (Non Destructive Test). What are these bolts for ? Chuck: I was wondering how long it would be before the Hiebie Jiebie Emails would start rolling in. I'm also very concerned about safety. These bolts are what holds the control sticks to the torque tube. Dad used the wrong size ID tubing (to build the bushing/tube inside the torque tube at the stick pivot point) for a bolt to fit in and it rattles a little. A 1/4" bolt is too small and if he bores it out, to a 5/16"? The bushing that's welded inside the torque tube will be paper thin. I don't think the treads in this application are going to be an issue. I will use aircraft bolts, even here, if I can find a 7mm with a shank instead of threaded all the way up. The alternative, according to my builder (Dad), is to rebuild the entire control system. I can't see it, so I kinda have to take his word on it for now. We have several week to address the problem, I just like to resolve things ASAP. I appreciate your concerns and constructive criticisms, please let me know if you think this is still a safety issue. Thanks in advance, Max ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:14 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Dave, Dale Johnson and I went through this a couple of years ago. We made the mistake of building our hubs before locating rims. The hubs were built to Howard Henderson's plans calling for 40 spokes. We spent about three hours in a mosquito infested motorcycle boneyard looking for a matching set of 40 spoke, aluminum rims. We found LOTS of 36 spoke rims. Many were new and still in the protective wrap. We would occasionally find 40 spoke rims. Finally, we found a matching set in usable condition. They were 19" rims from older Honda Goldwings. Some of the bigger Kawasaki's also had 40 spoke rims. The weight difference between aluminum rims and steel rims is minimal. I would recommend that you find your rims BEFORE you build the hubs. If I were to do another pair I wouldn't hesitate to use 36 spoke steel rims. Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis PS. As Dale and I were walking out of the boneyard with our hard fought prize we noticed a pair of rims leaning against the building. The rims were, you guessed it, a matched set of 40 spoke, 19 inch, aluminum rims marked $20.00 ea. !!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: dpaul To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 1:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear List, I've found a motorcycle shop in Rosebud Missouri that has hundreds of used motorcycle wheels sorted into bins. I'm going there Saturday to pick out my Piet wheels. Any suggestions as to what to look for and what to avoid? Thanks. Dave Paulsen ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:24 PM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hank and Chuck: I found a 7mm bolt with a 40mm shank at Metric and Multistandard in Irving today. It is an 8.8 which is apparently equivalent to a grade 5 American bolt. Your average hardware bolt is about a grade 2. I think this will be more than adequate for this application. Hank, for curiosity more than anything else, I will take your suggestion/advise and rig up a test. Chuck, a castle nut would probably be a good idea. We were planning on using a lock nut, but a cotter pin sounds good. Mike and Chris Thanks for the info on Aircraft Supply Co., I will make an effort to get by there and visit with them sometime. They do not have everything; I called them first thing this morning and was informed they don't have metric. I told him Mike King said they had everything. I mean everything, haha. They are very nice however and referred me to Metric & Multistandard. I sincerely appreciate your help and concern for my safety. Thanks again guys, Max ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:46 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" That sounds even easier than the bolt test method. I would pull the bolt at least every annual and re-lube and inspect. Hank J ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/28/04 8:15:27 AM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com > writes: > > << Dad used the wrong size ID tubing > (to build the bushing/tube inside the torque tube at the stick pivot point) > for a bolt to fit in and it rattles a little. A 1/4" bolt is too small and > if > he bores it out, to a 5/16"? >> > > Max, > Doug Bryant did the same thing when he built the controls for my plane. Flew > it that way for about 15 or 20 hours, and couldn't feel the slack at all > during flight. About 80 hours ago, I used a piece of brass shim stock rolled in a > tube shape, with the 1/4" bolt, to take up the slack. Grease both sides of > the shim. This application is in shear, so it's important to have the shank > all the way through the bushing, and use a caslte nut / cotter pin, because you > don't really tighten up the nut. I carefully check it on every pre-flight. > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:32 PM PST US From: "dpaul" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "dpaul" Thanks to all who gave advise about the wheels. I've noticed from various Piet photos that where the metal bracket (that attaches a wooden landing gear to the fuse) - some have two bolts and some four bolts. The plans (which are for a metal gear) show a bolt going through the bottom of one of the struts, just above where it is glued to the bottom longeron. So....I'm wondering if I should bolt through the struts, or through the wedges that are in between the struts or both. Perhaps it doesn't make any difference since the wood is just the stuff between two steel plates. I don't know. Dave Paulsen - Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Dave-- I'd go with aluminum alloy rims vs. steel for weight savings and 40 > spoke if they have them over the much more common 32 spokes per wheel. 18 > thru 21" diameters would work fine. > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:55 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Summer Tour If we don't have the Piet going by then, I'll at least escort for a leg or 2 in the Taylorcraft. Perhaps, I'll bring the digital camera. Terry Bowden ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:47 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hardware --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/04 7:55:56 PM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com writes: << Chuck, a castle nut would probably be a good idea. >> Max, A castle nun / cotter pin is standard practice in a rotational application. Hank, How could a homebuilder set up, and do a destructive test, and come up with an accurate reading ? The ol' Sledge Hammer doesn't offer up any numbers !! Everyone, Keep in mind that these e-mails will go into archive, and for future reference the 'Subject Line' should pertain to the text. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:06 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Summer Tour --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/04 9:06:24 PM Central Standard Time, BARNSTMR@aol.com writes: << If we don't have the Piet going by then, I'll at least escort for a leg or 2 in the Taylorcraft. Perhaps, I'll bring the digital camera. >> That would be Great !!! Chuck Gantzer