Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 02/06/04


Total Messages Posted: 28



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:50 AM - Front & Center (Michael D Cuy)
     2. 06:04 AM - Re: Wheels (Gadd, Skip)
     3. 07:07 AM - Re: How you get a 17 gallon nose tank--even in ashort (Rick Holland)
     4. 07:15 AM - Re: Graham-- are your cabanes slanted at all or vertical (Rick Holland)
     5. 07:15 AM - Re: blood, sweat & tears (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
     6. 08:41 AM - Re: How you get a 17 gallon nose tank--even in ashortfuse Pietenpol (Graham Hansen)
     7. 10:16 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/04/04 (Sanders, Andrew P)
     8. 12:46 PM - From the keyboard of a hill billy (Jim Vydra)
     9. 01:23 PM - Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy (Doyle K. Combs)
    10. 03:14 PM - Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (walt evans)
    11. 04:04 PM - Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy (TomTravis@aol.com)
    12. 04:39 PM - Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (Kip and Beth Gardner)
    13. 04:42 PM - Re: blood, sweat & tears (Bert Conoly)
    14. 05:15 PM - Re: Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (walt evans)
    15. 05:18 PM - Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy (dave rowe)
    16. 05:32 PM - Re: Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (Bert Conoly)
    17. 05:33 PM - Re: Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (DJ Vegh)
    18. 05:37 PM - Re: Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (Larry Ragan)
    19. 05:37 PM - Re: Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (John Joyce)
    20. 05:45 PM - Changing the subject (Andimaxd@aol.com)
    21. 05:57 PM - Re: Re:From the keyboard of a hill billy (Cy Galley)
    22. 06:08 PM - Another change of subject. . . (dave rowe)
    23. 06:10 PM - Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy (dave rowe)
    24. 06:37 PM - Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy (John Ford)
    25. 07:33 PM - Interesting online Pietenpol article.... (Jim Markle)
    26. 08:05 PM - Re: Changing the subject ()
    27. 09:04 PM - Re: Changing the subject (Cinda Gadd)
    28. 11:48 PM - Another change of subject. . . (Shawn Wolk)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:50:31 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Front & Center
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> In 1999 Doc and Bill Rewey along with Grant M. got us a reserved parking area near show center at Oshkosh in the homebuilt area. This was fine except for two very annoying things: 1) There was no easy way to lug your camping gear over to the camping area behind the Theater In The Woods, and 2) When the afternoon airshow started people crammed their chairs in, under, and closely around every Pietenpol since they provide great shade. We had to ask some to move so we could put our chairs under our own plane. We had one guy who repeatedly stood up with his video camera and bashed my left aileron with his head trying to get views of a plane passing by. When we told the guy to stop he had no idea what he was doing wrong. We caught one guy leaning his chair way back to see the planes overhead and his seat back was pressing into the fabric near the side stringer. We also had the occasional smoker who always seemed to like to look at the engine area where our gascolator is located. Luckily we got the float mod so our carb doesn't leak anymore. We felt like we could not enjoy the show due to worrying about what was happening to the plane. Admittedly, no permanent harm was done that we ever found, but the potential is very great up close to the flight line. I know the area by the Theater in the Woods is usually filled with biplanes like Stearmans and such but to me, that would be the primo area for parking the Piets since the foot traffic and spectators are soooe much less congested in that area and we would be very, very, close to the campground and showers. Just some thought from our experience in 99. Mike C. PS-- don't get me wrong--it was neat having such a prominent seat in the house for us Pietenpols and I am grateful that we can attend such a huge and diverse airshow (to even live in this country is a blessing, but within flying distance of Oshkosh !), but I have no grey hair yet and don't like pushing it:))


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:04:50 AM PST US
    From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
    Subject: Wheels
    Dave, I keep a copy of the Flying and glider in my backpack. I found 2 width dimensions for the wood gear. 61 1/2", outside of hub to outside of hub, I guess this is the length of the straight axle. 42 1/2", inside of wood fitting to inside of wood fitting, this is the run of the axle between the wood landing gear struts. Good luck, Skip I am assuming that the width of the landing gear for my straight axle, wood gear is the same as the plans show for the metal landing gear - Right? The plans show 56 inches from center of hub left to center of hub right. Thanks Richard and Carl for your advise concering spoke wheels. It's good to hear from the "for what it's worth department." Dave Paulsen - Missouri Message <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> Dave, I keep a copy of the Flying and glider in my backpack. I found 2 width dimensions for the wood gear. <SPAN class=447283013-06022004> <SPAN class=447283013-06022004>61 1/2", outside of hub to outside of hub, I guess this is the length of the straight axle. <SPAN class=447283013-06022004> <SPAN class=447283013-06022004>42 1/2", inside of wood fitting to inside of wood fitting, this is the run of the axle between the wood landing gear struts. <SPAN class=447283013-06022004> Good luck, <SPAN class=447283013-06022004>Skip <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> I am assuming that the width of the landing gear for my straight axle, wood gear is the same as the plans show for the metal landing gear- Right? The plans show 56 inches from center of hub left to center of hub right. Thanks Richard and Carl for your advise concering spoke wheels.It's good to hear from the"for what it's worth department." Dave Paulsen - Missouri


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:07:09 AM PST US
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net>
    fuse Pietenpol
    Subject: Re: How you get a 17 gallon nose tank--even in ashort
    fuse Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net> Graham With this arrangment did you have to move your wing back to get your CG right? RickH Graham Hansen wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > >Rick, > >Yes, I would extend the fuselage 6" forward if I were to build another >Pietenpol, and I would also stay with the 2" wider fuselage. > >I used an Aeronca 7ac engine mount which extends 8" forward from the >firewall. It is OK for -8 Continentals, but with the C85-12 sans starter and >generator the magnetos come very close to the firewall. Using a 10" mount >instead of the 8" one would cure this problem and move the mass of the >engine ahead an extra 2". > >Graham (CF-AUN) > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:15:11 AM PST US
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net>
    ?
    Subject: Re: Graham-- are your cabanes slanted at all or vertical
    ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net> Good info Mike. I have not yet heard of any negatives to Bernie's suggested 6" front fuselage length increase. And as I said before the mod buys you 6" of front passenger and fuel tank room instead of 6" of dead air space between the engine and firewall with a 6" longer engine mount. RickH Michael D Cuy wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > Graham-- a pearl of wisdom I had not heard yet from Pietenpol via your > e-mail on extending your fuselage six inches is a real revelation. > Since most Model A Fords keep the cabanes pretty much upright with the > heavy engine helping in that respect, I was curious to find if your > wing needed to be slanted back or perhaps somewhat forward to get your > CG to fall in the proper range. My guess is that they are mostly > vertical. > > The added benefits of the longer fuselage seem to far outweigh any > negatives. (that I can't think of even) You get more passenger leg > room, more room for a fuel tank or baggage space behind the firewall. > Really interesting. > > I know there will be some of the aero engineer types out there > downplaying Graham's Pietenpol-suggested modification to the plans > when using a Continental engine because you'll claim that the nose > will wander and it will be laterally unstable or some such thing, but > I've flown Joe Leonard's GN-1 Aircamper that has a really long motor > mount---at least 6" longer than plans and his plane flies GREAT ! > (with a 85 Cont.) > > Another example of a great flying short fuse but Loooong motor mount > Piet is Brian Kenny from Ontario, Canada. As I recall his motor mount > for his 65 Cont. is a whopping 9" longer than the plans motor mount > and Brian never spoke of any peculiar flying tendencies about his > plane. (that he flew to Brodhead many times before not wanting to > hassle with the border crossing pains) > > Mike C. > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:15:40 AM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: blood, sweat & tears
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com OUWWW. I read that to my wife and we just about crawled up the wall. I hope you heal soon. Last week I unintentionally tried to use the belt sander as a nail file and ground into the tips of my index and middle finger. These things happen in a nano-second and then everything we know about shop safety hits home in a real way. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:41:17 AM PST US
    From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
    Subject: Re: How you get a 17 gallon nose tank--even in ashortfuse
    Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net> Rick, DO NOT ARCHIVE Yes. Cabane (center section) struts are slanted back at about the same angle as the fuselage side truss members directly below them, thereby moving the wing back approximately 3 inches. Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How you get a 17 gallon nose tank--even in ashortfuse Pietenpol > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net> > > Graham > > With this arrangment did you have to move your wing back to get your CG right? > > RickH > > > Graham Hansen wrote: > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > > > >Rick, > > > >Yes, I would extend the fuselage 6" forward if I were to build another > >Pietenpol, and I would also stay with the 2" wider fuselage. > > > >I used an Aeronca 7ac engine mount which extends 8" forward from the > >firewall. It is OK for -8 Continentals, but with the C85-12 sans starter and > >generator the magnetos come very close to the firewall. Using a 10" mount > >instead of the 8" one would cure this problem and move the mass of the > >engine ahead an extra 2". > > > >Graham (CF-AUN) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:16:53 AM PST US
    Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/04/04
    From: "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders@boeing.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sanders, Andrew P" <andrew.p.sanders@boeing.com> "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net> Wrote: ... SNIP ... >> Regarding trim change with fuel burn, my 85 hp Pietenpol is nose heavy with the tank full, so I "trim" with the throttle using about 2350 to 2375 RPM in cruise initially and gradually back off as the nose lightens up. However, stick forces are so light that it isn't at all burdensome to cruise at any RPM one chooses. The above procedure provides a "hands off" condition, but only in smooth air. My Pietenpol has never been tail heavy in flight, even with the A65 engine (I switched to a C85 after about 115 hours with an A65). A friend built a nearly identical airplane from the same jigs and it exhibits the typical Pietenpol tail heaviness in flight with an A65 engine. We never found out why they were different in this respect. However, both are quite nose heavy in a power-off glide, regardless of fuel quantity.<< Having the proper trim in cruise but nose heaviness in glide can be a symptom of Too little downward offset of the engine thrust line. The actual trim of the aircraft is too nose down and this shows itself in glide. During cruise the location of the thrust line below the drag pulls the nose up and masks the condition. The two should be balanced so that when you back off the throttle, the nose should drop to maintain (close to) the same trim speed. You might want to try adjusting the stabilizer to maintain the speed in glide, then shim the top of the engine mount with washers so that under power it doesn't nose up. Andrew. 7E7 LSSPD Project Manager Boeing Commercial Airplane Group.


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:46:35 PM PST US
    From: Jim Vydra <jvydra@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    Sharon Mcmillan <sharonmcmillen@aol.com>, pietenpol-list@matronics.com, maryann ross <maryann.ross@worldnet.att.net>, rudy <rudyjoella@aol.com>, Anne Vydra <avydra@hotmail.com>, Marianne Vydra <marianne.vydra@orst.edu>, Richard Vydra <richbet44@aol.com>, Vic Vydra <vsqurd@cox.net>, Elaine Vydra-Wiegand <elaine@electroponics.com> Attached was a letter to the editor in this mornings paper. Naked boob on tube nothing new So whats the deal? Sure we got a brief flash of breast when Justin Timberlake pulled off Janet Jacksons bustier during the half time show at the Super Bowl. So what? I mean, barely a week ear- lier every network in the country had a naked boob in front of the camera for an hour. But then again, Im sure more people were watching the Super Bowl than watched the State of the Union address. Mitch Paskowltz, Springfield


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:23:42 PM PST US
    From: "Doyle K. Combs" <dcombs@ltex.net>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    rather political if I interpret this little message correctly. This is Pietenpol country not Dems or Reps. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Vydra To: dvydra ; kelly Sharon Mcmillan ; pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; maryann ross ; rudy ; Anne Vydra ; Marianne Vydra ; Richard Vydra ; Vic Vydra ; Elaine Vydra-Wiegand Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billy Attached was a letter to the editor in this mornings paper. Naked boob on tube nothing new So what's the deal? Sure we got a brief flash of breast when Justin Timberlake pulled off Janet Jackson's bustier during the half time show at the Super Bowl. So what? I mean, barely a week ear- lier every network in the country had a naked boob in front of the camera for an hour. But then again, I'm sure more people were watching the Super Bowl than watched the State of the Union address. Mitch Paskowltz, Springfield


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:14:28 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat duty. I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never saw 1,000 people die before my eyes before. I'll vote for that "boob" again. Lets talk about Pietenpols. walt evans STS2(SS) NX140DL Do not archive


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:04:18 PM PST US
    From: TomTravis@aol.com
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    In a message dated 2/6/2004 5:15:20 PM Central Standard Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: > I'll vote for that "boob" again. > > Lets talk about Pietenpols. > AMEN! Tom Travis


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:39:38 PM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    At 6:14 PM -0500 2/6/04, walt evans wrote: >No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the >Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat >duty. >I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never >saw 1,000 people die before my eyes before. >I'll vote for that "boob" again. > >Lets talk about Pietenpols. > >walt evans STS2(SS) >NX140DL I'd like to talk about Pietenpols also & generally try to do so...... However, I'd like to point out that the "let's not get political" card ONLY gets played whenever someone makes a comment interpreted as being critical of the "boob" & his policieis. Flag-waving comments in support of said "boob" generally gets a free pass or an AMEN!. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I wish the "boob" was in the process of being held accountable for starting what I consider an unecessary and illegal war that has killed 500+ of our fellow citizens and wounded more than 3000 others - none of which has anything to do with the events of 9/11/2001. Patriotism comes in many flavors, including the right and duty to oppose policies we disagree with. Enough of my soapboxing - if you don't want the list to be political, then let's not have a double standard. DO NOT ARCHIVE Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:42:31 PM PST US
    From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: blood, sweat & tears
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> Yeah don't let anybody tell you a hack saw won't cut you either. I made the nicest, neatest cut THROUGH my thumbnail and literally cut half my thumb off. I went to the hospital ER - I was afraid of debris in it. It hardly bled at all. The Doc gave me three alternatives - each of which had to do with some major pain it sounded like. I said " I vote we glue that puppy up with Super Glue and see how it does." He shrugged his shoulders and said "OK by me". A few months later you couldn't even see the scar and the cut in the nail had grown out. All gone. Seriously, I never use a hand saw now - even a hack saw - without a glove on my left hand. Bert (who now has two covered wings, a covered center section, and covered tail feathers- the fuse is next) do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: blood, sweat & tears > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > > OUWWW. I read that to my wife and we just about crawled up the wall. I hope you heal soon. Last week I unintentionally tried to use the belt sander as a nail file and ground into the tips of my index and middle finger. These things happen in a nano-second and then everything we know about shop safety hits home in a real way. > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:15:15 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billyOh brother,,,here we go. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:40 PM Subject: re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billy At 6:14 PM -0500 2/6/04, walt evans wrote: No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat duty. I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never saw 1,000 people die before my eyes before. I'll vote for that "boob" again. Lets talk about Pietenpols. walt evans STS2(SS) NX140DL I'd like to talk about Pietenpols also & generally try to do so...... However, I'd like to point out that the "let's not get political" card ONLY gets played whenever someone makes a comment interpreted as being critical of the "boob" & his policieis. Flag-waving comments in support of said "boob" generally gets a free pass or an AMEN!. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I wish the "boob" was in the process of being held accountable for starting what I consider an unecessary and illegal war that has killed 500+ of our fellow citizens and wounded more than 3000 others - none of which has anything to do with the events of 9/11/2001. Patriotism comes in many flavors, including the right and duty to oppose policies we disagree with. Enough of my soapboxing - if you don't want the list to be political, then let's not have a double standard. DO NOT ARCHIVE Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:18:29 PM PST US
    From: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> Hey I fly as the ASW guy in Canadian Sea Kings. Sorry if I've ever pinged the hell out of you, if I'd known sewer tubers liked Pietenpols I would have eased off a bit!! Keep up the fight, wish we could do more to help, but I'm running out of bubble gum to keep my helo together!! Agree we can have a sense of humour, just need to stay somewhat airplane related. > walt evans wrote: > > No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the > Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat > duty. > I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never saw > 1,000 people die before my eyes before. > I'll vote for that "boob" again. > > Lets talk about Pietenpols. > > walt evans STS2(SS) > NX140DL > > Do not archive


    Message 16


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    Time: 05:32:06 PM PST US
    From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billyUh Oh. I hear the rip of Dacron Polyester unravelling here. C'mon guys. We all have our political opinions. I'll bet you mine is as strong if not stronger than every one of yours - but I'm not gonna tell you what it is. If you want to e-mail me off list I'd LOVE to argue. But I'm not going to insult half of you by voicing my opinions. Lets don't forget that just a few hours ago, we were all part of the same family - people that love flying and Piet-type airplanes. PLEASE don't let this issue drive half of us off. Like a swollen and bruised Rodney King said - "Can't we all just get along?" Bert the referee (Go Ahead and Archive - it's important that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:40 PM Subject: re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billy At 6:14 PM -0500 2/6/04, walt evans wrote: No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat duty. I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never saw 1,000 people die before my eyes before. I'll vote for that "boob" again. Lets talk about Pietenpols. walt evans STS2(SS) NX140DL I'd like to talk about Pietenpols also & generally try to do so...... However, I'd like to point out that the "let's not get political" card ONLY gets played whenever someone makes a comment interpreted as being critical of the "boob" & his policieis. Flag-waving comments in support of said "boob" generally gets a free pass or an AMEN!. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I wish the "boob" was in the process of being held accountable for starting what I consider an unecessary and illegal war that has killed 500+ of our fellow citizens and wounded more than 3000 others - none of which has anything to do with the events of 9/11/2001. Patriotism comes in many flavors, including the right and duty to oppose policies we disagree with. Enough of my soapboxing - if you don't want the list to be political, then let's not have a double standard. DO NOT ARCHIVE Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH


    Message 17


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    Time: 05:33:12 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS, MIME_BASE64_LATIN, MIME_BASE64_TEXT cmU6UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IEZyb20gdGhlIGtleWJvYXJkIG9mIGEgaGlsbCBiaWxseW15IGRl bGV0ZSBrZXkgaXMgd29ya2luZyBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IHdlbGwgdG9uaWdodC4uLi4gICAgd291bGRu J3Qgd2FudCB0byAiaW5mZWN0IiBteSBjb21wdXRlciAob3IgbXkgbWluZCkgd2l0aCBhbnkgcG9y dCB3aW5nIG5vbi1zZW5zZQ0KDQo6LSkNCg0KREogVmVnaA0KTjc0RFYNCk1lc2EsIEFaDQp3d3cu aW1hZ2Vkdi5jb20vYWlyY2FtcGVyDQoNCg0KDQotDQoNCiAgLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2Fn ZSAtLS0tLSANCiAgRnJvbTogS2lwIGFuZCBCZXRoIEdhcmRuZXIgDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wt bGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KICBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEZlYnJ1YXJ5IDA2LCAyMDA0IDU6 NDAgUE0NCiAgU3ViamVjdDogcmU6UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IEZyb20gdGhlIGtleWJvYXJkIG9m IGEgaGlsbCBiaWxseQ0KDQoNCiAgQXQgNjoxNCBQTSAtMDUwMCAyLzYvMDQsIHdhbHQgZXZhbnMg d3JvdGU6DQogICAgTm8gSSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRvIGhlYXIgdGhhdCBjcmFwIGVpdGhlci4gIEkn bSBhIFZldGVyYW4gIGZyb20gdGhlIFZpZXQgTmFtICB3YXIuICAgU3ViIHNhaWxvciB3aXRoIDUg TnVjIHBhdHJvbHMsIGFuZCBEaWVzZWwvUGlnIGJvYXQgZHV0eS4NCiAgICBJIHdhdGNoZWQgdGhl IHNlY29uZCBXVEMgdG93ZXIgZmFsbCBmcm9tIGFjcm9zcyB0aGUgcml2ZXIuICBOZXZlciBzYXcg MSwwMDAgcGVvcGxlIGRpZSBiZWZvcmUgbXkgZXllcyBiZWZvcmUuDQogICAgSSdsbCB2b3RlIGZv ciB0aGF0ICJib29iIiBhZ2Fpbi4NCg0KICAgIExldHMgdGFsayBhYm91dCBQaWV0ZW5wb2xzLg0K DQogICAgd2FsdCBldmFucyBTVFMyKFNTKQ0KICAgIE5YMTQwREwNCg0KDQogIEknZCBsaWtlIHRv IHRhbGsgYWJvdXQgUGlldGVucG9scyBhbHNvICYgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IHRyeSB0byBkbyBzby4uLi4u Lg0KDQoNCiAgSG93ZXZlciwgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gcG9pbnQgb3V0IHRoYXQgdGhlICJsZXQncyBu b3QgZ2V0IHBvbGl0aWNhbCIgY2FyZCBPTkxZIGdldHMgcGxheWVkIHdoZW5ldmVyIHNvbWVvbmUg bWFrZXMgYSBjb21tZW50IGludGVycHJldGVkIGFzIGJlaW5nIGNyaXRpY2FsIG9mIHRoZSAiYm9v YiIgJiBoaXMgcG9saWNpZWlzLiAgRmxhZy13YXZpbmcgY29tbWVudHMgaW4gc3VwcG9ydCBvZiBz YWlkICJib29iIiBnZW5lcmFsbHkgZ2V0cyBhIGZyZWUgcGFzcyBvciBhbiBBTUVOIS4NCg0KDQog IEZyYW5rbHksIEknbSBzaWNrIG9mIGl0LiAgSSB3aXNoIHRoZSAiYm9vYiIgd2FzIGluIHRoZSBw cm9jZXNzIG9mIGJlaW5nIGhlbGQgYWNjb3VudGFibGUgZm9yIHN0YXJ0aW5nIHdoYXQgSSBjb25z aWRlciBhbiB1bmVjZXNzYXJ5IGFuZCBpbGxlZ2FsICB3YXIgdGhhdCBoYXMga2lsbGVkIDUwMCsg b2Ygb3VyIGZlbGxvdyBjaXRpemVucyBhbmQgd291bmRlZCBtb3JlIHRoYW4gMzAwMCBvdGhlcnMg LSBub25lIG9mIHdoaWNoIGhhcyBhbnl0aGluZyB0byBkbyB3aXRoIHRoZSBldmVudHMgb2YgOS8x MS8yMDAxLg0KDQoNCiAgUGF0cmlvdGlzbSBjb21lcyBpbiBtYW55IGZsYXZvcnMsIGluY2x1ZGlu ZyB0aGUgcmlnaHQgYW5kIGR1dHkgdG8gb3Bwb3NlIHBvbGljaWVzIHdlIGRpc2FncmVlIHdpdGgu DQoNCg0KICBFbm91Z2ggb2YgbXkgc29hcGJveGluZyAtIGlmIHlvdSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRoZSBs aXN0IHRvIGJlIHBvbGl0aWNhbCwgdGhlbiBsZXQncyBub3QgaGF2ZSBhIGRvdWJsZSBzdGFuZGFy ZC4NCg0KDQogIERPIE5PVCBBUkNISVZFDQoNCg0KICBLaXAgR2FyZG5lcg0KLS0gDQoNCiAgTm9y dGggQ2FudG9uLCBPSA==


    Message 18


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    Time: 05:37:18 PM PST US
    From: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com> <TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"> <TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Let's not!! <TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"> <DIV id=hotbar_promo> Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan@hotmail.com Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and beyond.


    Message 19


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    Time: 05:37:46 PM PST US
    From: "John Joyce" <jayejay@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    Hey Walt Evans: I too am a Vietnam vet, an ex C-130 driver. This is for Piet messages not for political crap. John Joyce North Reading, MA ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billy No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat duty. I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never saw 1,000 people die before my eyes before. I'll vote for that "boob" again. Lets talk about Pietenpols. walt evans STS2(SS) NX140DL Do not archive


    Message 20


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    Time: 05:45:49 PM PST US
    From: Andimaxd@aol.com
    Subject: Changing the subject
    Hey guys! This is sort of changing the subject. Considering the current subject matter I will ask a dumb question. Am I supposed to cover the belly of this beast (underside of the fuse) with fabric or leave it wood? I would assume you are supposed to cover it, but I saw a fly baby the other day, and the fabric stopped at the bottom of the fuselage. I am going to have an aluminum access panel from the pilots seat aft all the way the tail wheel. Max Arlington, TX.


    Message 21


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    Time: 05:57:14 PM PST US
    From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billySo you prefer starboard!! <GRIN> ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:32 PM Subject: Re: re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billy my delete key is working especially well tonight.... wouldn't want to "infect" my computer (or my mind) with any port wing non-sense :-) DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: re:Pietenpol-List: From the keyboard of a hill billy At 6:14 PM -0500 2/6/04, walt evans wrote: No I don't want to hear that crap either. I'm a Veteran from the Viet Nam war. Sub sailor with 5 Nuc patrols, and Diesel/Pig boat duty. I watched the second WTC tower fall from across the river. Never saw 1,000 people die before my eyes before. I'll vote for that "boob" again. Lets talk about Pietenpols. walt evans STS2(SS) NX140DL I'd like to talk about Pietenpols also & generally try to do so...... However, I'd like to point out that the "let's not get political" card ONLY gets played whenever someone makes a comment interpreted as being critical of the "boob" & his policieis. Flag-waving comments in support of said "boob" generally gets a free pass or an AMEN!. Frankly, I'm sick of it. I wish the "boob" was in the process of being held accountable for starting what I consider an unecessary and illegal war that has killed 500+ of our fellow citizens and wounded more than 3000 others - none of which has anything to do with the events of 9/11/2001. Patriotism comes in many flavors, including the right and duty to oppose policies we disagree with. Enough of my soapboxing - if you don't want the list to be political, then let's not have a double standard. DO NOT ARCHIVE Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH


    Message 22


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    Time: 06:08:23 PM PST US
    From: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Another change of subject. . .
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> Speaking of covering, I'm considering HiPec. Very similar, I think, to what I used on R/C stuff, plse jump in with opinions, comments, laughter, etc, and P.S., have ordered pile of how to cover your airplane in bedsheets type books, any stuff aval online???? I'm too lazy tonight to do much real work, thought I'd read about how great my plane will look if I get off my butt type stuff. Thanks, Dave.


    Message 23


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    Time: 06:10:25 PM PST US
    From: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    <a05210602bc49e074a82d@[67.72.220.76]> <002901c3ed1a$4beb4bb0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000901c3ed1e$0f55aa20$f004fea9@new> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> Nuff of the fishead, I mean navy talk! I have to live with those guys 4-6 mos a year. I walk on a floor and lean on the walls, go to the bathroom, lie in my bed, and eat dessert. (navy translation = deck, bulkhead, head, rack, duff) Note these Navy guys like the word head . . .


    Message 24


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    Time: 06:37:24 PM PST US
    From: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
    Subject: Re: From the keyboard of a hill billy
    Whew! I was worried that the "from the keyboard of a hill billy" was going to be some sort of question about how far back on the tail do you port the "range extender" so you don't get pee all over the tailwheel... You can imagine my relief that instead it was nothing more than someone stirring the pot-which-I'd-rather-not-stir-amongst-friends instead. I'll happily share my poitical stance off-list with anyone who cares to listen/read, but I recognize that while I'm certain we all would disagree amount a million different things we all seem to dig Pietenpols, no matter where we choose to vent the fluids. ;-) I look forward to seeing you all at Brodhead... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> rowed044@shaw.ca Friday, February 06, 2004 9:10:48 PM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> Nuff of the fishead, I mean navy talk! I have to live with those guys 4-6 mos a year. I walk on a floor and lean on the walls, go to the bathroom, lie in my bed, and eat dessert. (navy translation = deck, bulkhead, head, rack, duff) Note these Navy guys like the word head . . .


    Message 25


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    Time: 07:33:08 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Interesting online Pietenpol article....
    Timeless Voice of the Week Dave Harris, EAA 9119, of Mason City, Iowa, has had some typical EAA experiences. For instance, he built his own airplane-a Pietenpol Air Camper. But Dave also had some unique experiences, like parachuting out of Steve Wittman's airplane during air shows. "I like learning, and believe me, if you're even half alive you will never quit learning when you're around aviation," he said. Read more about Dave's experiences on the Timeless Voices website.


    Message 26


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    Time: 08:05:14 PM PST US
    From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Changing the subject
    Max, Covering the belly is optional. I've seen it both ways. Dale and I put a fairing strip down the center of the belly then covered with fabric. It looks better than an uncovered belly. Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Hey guys! This is sort of changing the subject. Considering the current subject matter I will ask a dumb question. Am I supposed to cover the belly of this beast (underside of the fuse) with fabric or leave it wood? I would assume you are supposed to cover it, but I saw a fly baby the other day, and the fabric stopped at the bottom of the fuselage. I am going to have an aluminum access panel from the pilots seat aft all the way the tail wheel. Max Arlington, TX.


    Message 27


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    Time: 09:04:32 PM PST US
    From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Changing the subject
    Max, Not a dumb question. Agreed, the belly does look better covered. The other side is, it is easier to inspect bolt heads and nuts sticking thorough the floor, uncovered. Why are you running the inspection panel all the way back? Skip, in Atlanta ----- Original Message ----- Hey guys! This is sort of changing the subject. Considering the current subject matter I will ask a dumb question. Am I supposed to cover the belly of this beast (underside of the fuse) with fabric or leave it wood? I would assume you are supposed to cover it, but I saw a fly baby the other day, and the fabric stopped at the bottom of the fuselage. I am going to have an aluminum access panel from the pilots seat aft all the way the tail wheel. Max Arlington, TX.


    Message 28


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    Time: 11:48:23 PM PST US
    From: "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk@sprint.ca>
    Subject: Another change of subject. . .
    I have used the HIPEC system on my Pietenpol. 2.7oz.fabric, and brushed on the Grey coat (Hipec sun barrer).This is the same material that is used to glue the fabric to the ribs. When I made a sample test jig, the adhesion was strong enough to rip apart the capstrips on the test jig. Whats reallyneatabout the stuffis its incredible flexibility. You can take a piece of HSB treated fabric, roll it up in to a ball. The spread it out andtry shining a light threw it. The coating isn't damaged. On the tail I finished the colour coat with the HIPEC Top Coat. This is the two part cyanate based polyurethane that requires air supply while spraying. When I recovered the wing this spring I used HIPEC again with 2.7oz. fabric,but sprayed it with latex forthe colour topcoat. Mainly because I didn't want to spray that poison again. The latex though is heavier and no way as nice as the finish of the HIPEC Top Coat that was used on the tail. On my other homebuilt, the original builder used HIPEC HSB then used Centauri as a top coat. Centauri is a premium automotive finish. The Centauri seems to have lost alot of its elasticity, and is cracking and peeling in places. But with close inspection, the HIPEC underneath is in great shape. No cracking or sign of any deterioration at all. Repairs are also simple with the HIPEC, and no ribstitching or tapes at the ribs. The extra work for getting the HIPEC to glue the fabric to the bottom of the undercambered wing was a pain. I had to weight the fabric down so it was resting on the ribs with over a hundred margarine tubs filled with sand & gravel. Just to give you a p[erspective on how well the HSB glues. When I was removing the masking tape from the fuel filler on the wing tank. I didn't run a knife around first, and the HSB glued the masking tape to the edge of the fabric so well that I ripped the fabric pulling off the tape. Good thing its easy to patch with HIPEC. Shawn Wolk C-FRAZ Pietenpol Aircamper C-GZOT Skyhopper 2




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