---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/07/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:27 AM - Re: blood, sweat & tears (Clif Dawson) 2. 12:54 AM - Re: Another change of subject. . . (dave rowe) 3. 12:57 AM - Re: blood, sweat & tears (dave rowe) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: Changing the subject (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 5. 07:55 AM - Re: Changing the subject (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 6. 08:06 AM - Re: Changing the subject (Jack Phillips) 7. 08:09 AM - Re: Changing the subject (Andimaxd@aol.com) 8. 08:57 AM - Re: Changing the subject (Cy Galley) 9. 10:23 AM - Re: Changing the subject (dave rowe) 10. 03:42 PM - Re: Changing the subject (Bert Conoly) 11. 04:25 PM - thinking about airfoils (Jeff Cours) 12. 04:35 PM - Re: Changing the subject (Bert Conoly) 13. 04:54 PM - Re: thinking about airfoils (Kevin Holcomb) 14. 06:54 PM - Re: thinking about airfoils (Fred Weaver) 15. 07:38 PM - Re: Changing the subject (Rcaprd@aol.com) 16. 08:29 PM - Re: Front & Center (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:23 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: blood, sweat & tears <001101c3ed13$390eab10$6501a8c0@Nancy> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Check these out; http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=1&page=31215&categor y=2,42407,33246 I believe superglue was originaly designed as a bandage for surgery and promptly stolen by everyone else. So I was told anyway. Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: blood, sweat & tears > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" > > with some major pain it sounded like. I said " I vote we glue that puppy up > with Super Glue and see how it does." He shrugged his shoulders and said > "OK by me". > > A few months later you couldn't even see the scar and the cut in the nail > had grown out. All gone. > > Seriously, I never use a hand saw now - even a hack saw - without a glove on > my left hand. > Bert ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:40 AM PST US From: dave rowe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another change of subject. . . --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. It's the most economical system, and the one I am most familiar with, will definately stick to that. PS what part of the country are you in? I'm in Sooke, BC, Vancouver Island. > Shawn Wolk wrote: > > I have used the HIPEC system on my Pietenpol. 2.7oz.fabric, and > brushed on the Grey coat (Hipec sun barrer).This is the same material > that is used to glue the fabric to the ribs. When I made a sample test > jig, the adhesion was strong enough to rip apart the capstrips on the > test jig. Whats reallyneatabout the stuffis its incredible > flexibility. You can take a piece of HSB treated fabric, roll it up in > to a ball. The spread it out andtry shining a light threw it. The > coating isn't damaged. > On the tail I finished the colour coat with the HIPEC Top Coat. > This is the two part cyanate based polyurethane that requires air > supply while spraying. When I recovered the wing this spring I used > HIPEC again with 2.7oz. fabric,but sprayed it with latex forthe colour > topcoat. Mainly because I didn't want to spray that poison again. The > latex though is heavier and no way as nice as the finish of the HIPEC > Top Coat that was used on the tail. > On my other homebuilt, the original builder used HIPEC HSB then > used Centauri as a top coat. Centauri is a premium automotive finish. > The Centauri seems to have lost alot of its elasticity, and is > cracking and peeling in places. But with close inspection, the HIPEC > underneath is in great shape. No cracking or sign of any deterioration > at all. > Repairs are also simple with the HIPEC, and no ribstitching or > tapes at the ribs. The extra work for getting the HIPEC to glue the > fabric to the bottom of the undercambered wing was a pain. I had to > weight the fabric down so it was resting on the ribs with over a > hundred margarine tubs filled with sand & gravel. > Just to give you a p[erspective on how well the HSB glues. When I > was removing the masking tape from the fuel filler on the wing tank. I > didn't run a knife around first, and the HSB glued the masking tape to > the edge of the fabric so well that I ripped the fabric pulling off > the tape. Good thing its easy to patch with HIPEC. > > Shawn Wolk > C-FRAZ Pietenpol Aircamper > C-GZOT Skyhopper 2 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:03 AM PST US From: dave rowe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: blood, sweat & tears <001101c3ed13$390eab10$6501a8c0@Nancy> <012e01c3ed53$ac2d6330$96715118@dawsonaviation> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe You are right, and it is actually in medical service. I, being an accident waiting for a place to happen, always have a bottle handy. Also good for tacking/gluing gussets. Way stronger than the wood, but I still epoxy over after. I've used the stuff for over 15 yrs, never a failure. Just don't get any on fingers and then scratch anyplace . . . Clif Dawson wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > Check these out; > > http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=1&page=31215&categor > y=2,42407,33246 > > I believe superglue was originaly designed as a bandage for surgery and > promptly stolen by everyone else. So I was told anyway. > > Clif > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: blood, sweat & tears > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" > > > > with some major pain it sounded like. I said " I vote we glue that > puppy up > > with Super Glue and see how it does." He shrugged his shoulders and said > > "OK by me". > > > > A few months later you couldn't even see the scar and the cut in the nail > > had grown out. All gone. > > > > Seriously, I never use a hand saw now - even a hack saw - without a glove > on > > my left hand. > > Bert > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:32 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Max, I am also planning to have an access panel under the belly for getting into the elev bellcrank turnbuckles etc. Seems to make good sense. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:36 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Also, I might add that I plan to use a center fairing strip and cover the belly with fabric from the firewall to the tail, with only a small access panel (maybe one bay) for access to the belcrank area. Fabric on the belly is desireable for cleaning off the oil spatters and fuel drips that are inevitable, no matter which engine you use. I'd prefer to clean off of fabric, rather than allow those intrusive fluids to soak into the belly plywood. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:21 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject I've also included a belly access panel, as Mike Cuy did on his. There is simply too much important stuff that you need to be able to inspect and adjust in the area behind the rear seat. I don't think I would take it all the way back to the tail, though - too heavy, and there is nothing back there that should ever need adjustment. Here is a picture showing my access panel area. Having done a few "Owner assisted annual inspections" on my Cessna 140, I know how important it is to be able to have ready access to the control system for inspection and lubrication annually. I put mine between two stringers that I added on the belly. I think they add slightly to the look of the airplane, rounding it out slightly. They also get the fabric up over the various bolts and nuts in the cockpit area. I added inspection rings in the region of the bolts attaching the control system components, in case I ever need access to those nuts. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Max, I am also planning to have an access panel under the belly for getting into the elev bellcrank turnbuckles etc. Seems to make good sense. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:44 AM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject In a message dated 2/6/2004 11:05:11 PM Central Standard Time, csfog@earthlink.net writes: > Why are you running the inspection panel all the way back? > Skip, in Atlanta > Skip: I want to be able to have easy access to the bell crank assembly, turn buckles and assorted hardware. I also want to have access to the tail cone for inspection and clean-out of foreign object, nests etc. I am a fairly big person and like the idea of being able to get my little grubbies in every little nook and cranny. I read about this idea a long time ago, and it just made sense. Something about the guy having a fuel leak and being able to take this oversize access panel off from behind the pilot seat all the way aft to facilitate drying it out. With some dzus fasteners, no one will even know it's there, except me, during inspections. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:29 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject You are also working way too late... 11:45PM is what the clock says and it is dark thru the windows! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject I've also included a belly access panel, as Mike Cuy did on his. There is simply too much important stuff that you need to be able to inspect and adjust in the area behind the rear seat. I don't think I would take it all the way back to the tail, though - too heavy, and there is nothing back there that should ever need adjustment. Here is a picture showing my access panel area. Having done a few "Owner assisted annual inspections" on my Cessna 140, I know how important it is to be able to have ready access to the control system for inspection and lubrication annually. I put mine between two stringers that I added on the belly. I think they add slightly to the look of the airplane, rounding it out slightly. They also get the fabric up over the various bolts and nuts in the cockpit area. I added inspection rings in the region of the bolts attaching the control system components, in case I ever need access to those nuts. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:49 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Max, I am also planning to have an access panel under the belly for getting into the elev bellcrank turnbuckles etc. Seems to make good sense. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:54 AM PST US From: dave rowe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe An excellent idea, I'd never thought of that. You guys rock!! > Jack Phillips wrote: > > I've also included a belly access panel, as Mike Cuy did on his. > There is simply too much important stuff that you need to be able to > inspect and adjust in the area behind the rear seat. I don't think I > would take it all the way back to the tail, though - too heavy, and > there is nothing back there that should ever need adjustment. Here is > a picture showing my access panel area. > > > > Having done a few "Owner assisted annual inspections" on my Cessna > 140, I know how important it is to be able to have ready access to the > control system for inspection and lubrication annually. > > > > > > I put mine between two stringers that I added on the belly. I think > they add slightly to the look of the airplane, rounding it out > slightly. They also get the fabric up over the various bolts and nuts > in the cockpit area. I added inspection rings in the region of the > bolts attaching the control system components, in case I ever need > access to those nuts. > > > > Jack Phillips > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > BARNSTMR@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:49 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject > > > > Max, > I am also planning to have an access panel under the belly for getting > into the elev bellcrank turnbuckles etc. Seems to make good sense. > > Terry Bowden > ph (254) 715-4773 > fax (254) 853-3805 > > Name: Fabric - Fuselage 6.JPG > Fabric - Fuselage 6.JPG Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) > Encoding: base64 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:01 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject I've also included a belly access panel, as Mike Cuy did on his. There is simply too much important stuff that you need to be able to inspect and adjust in the area behind the rear seat. I don't think I would take it all the way back to the tail, though - too heavy, and there is nothing back there that should ever need adjustment. Here is a picture showing my access panel area. Having done a few "Owner assisted annual inspections" on my Cessna 140, I know how important it is to be able to have ready access to the control system for inspection and lubrication annually. I put mine between two stringers that I added on the belly. I think they add slightly to the look of the airplane, rounding it out slightly. They also get the fabric up over the various bolts and nuts in the cockpit area. I added inspection rings in the region of the bolts attaching the control system components, in case I ever need access to those nuts. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:49 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Max, I am also planning to have an access panel under the belly for getting into the elev bellcrank turnbuckles etc. Seems to make good sense. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:12 PM PST US From: Jeff Cours Subject: Pietenpol-List: thinking about airfoils --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours Hi, everyone - I was thinking about airfoils last night, and it occurred to me that not having access to a wind tunnel isn't really a limitation if someone wants to test the FC-10, since automobile highway speeds are a pretty good match for Pietenpol airspeeds. If you had the proper test rig, you could mount an airfoil section in, say, the bed of a pickup truck, poking up well above the cab to get it into clean air, and collect data at night on a smooth section of rural highway. Then I started thinking that the test rig might not be that much of a problem, either. For a simple thought experiment, I went through how you might measure lift at different airspeeds and angles of attack. Since a 29 foot wing can lift a 1,000lb Piet, if we ignore edge effects (mostly 'cause I don't know enough to know how to figure them out), that says that a 2 foot wing section ought to be able to lift somewhere in the neighborhood of 70lb. So, let's say you put a bathroom scale in the truck bed. On that scale, you put a 200lb block of concrete, just to keep the weights in the region where bathroom scales are mostly linear. Poking out of the concrete is a pole that's high enough to get the wing section into clear air. On top of the pole is a 2' wide section of full cord FC-10, pivoted to let you adjust the angle of attack, maybe with a threaded rod to hold it at the desired angle. Also, imagine some bracing, with a ring around the pole to let the pole slide up and down, just to keep the rig from falling over. Your test run would be to set the AOA and note the scale reading at speed 0. Then drive a set of test point speeds, say every 5 MPH, and have someone else read the scale. At the end of the run, stop, readjust AOA, and repeat for the next series. I could also imagine variations on the test rig that'd let you measure pitching moment. It sounds like the things this project would really need are someone who knows enough about the practical end of aero engineering to know exactly what to measure and how to do it, and someone who's willing to devote the time to building the test rig and collecting the numbers. (Neither of whom are me, unfortunately.) - Jeff ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:35 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Sorry . Operator Error. I was trying to respond to Jack directly. Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bert Conoly To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject I've also included a belly access panel, as Mike Cuy did on his. There is simply too much important stuff that you need to be able to inspect and adjust in the area behind the rear seat. I don't think I would take it all the way back to the tail, though - too heavy, and there is nothing back there that should ever need adjustment. Here is a picture showing my access panel area. Having done a few "Owner assisted annual inspections" on my Cessna 140, I know how important it is to be able to have ready access to the control system for inspection and lubrication annually. I put mine between two stringers that I added on the belly. I think they add slightly to the look of the airplane, rounding it out slightly. They also get the fabric up over the various bolts and nuts in the cockpit area. I added inspection rings in the region of the bolts attaching the control system components, in case I ever need access to those nuts. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:49 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject Max, I am also planning to have an access panel under the belly for getting into the elev bellcrank turnbuckles etc. Seems to make good sense. Terry Bowden ph (254) 715-4773 fax (254) 853-3805 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:01 PM PST US From: "Kevin Holcomb" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: thinking about airfoils --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kevin Holcomb" I worked with that sort of ground test vehicle in college. You can get good data from it, but it is a bit tricky. At Mississippi State we used a very old Buick roadmaster with all of the body panels removed so as to affect the air as little as possible. You want the test sample to see only undisturbed air. This means it has to be quite a ways up there. It also means the vehicles CG will be quite high so we had to throw in some ballast down low. A DAQ system recorded a couple of load cells installed on a mechanism very much like a wind tunnel balance. However the data was nowhere near as clean as what you get out of a tunnel so we had to do a lot of averageing. Reducing the data was a chore; essentially you look at a quick plot, try to find several steady seconds, and average those numbers. Periods of acceleration, decelearation and bumps in the road (or in our case the runway) need to be thrown out. Also, when the model gets large compared to the vehicle things can get spooky. Good luck with your experiment. You can get good data if you are careful but it is not as easy as it sounds like it might be. Kevin www.airminded.net > [Original Message] > From: Jeff Cours > To: > Date: 2/7/2004 7:25:01 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: thinking about airfoils > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours > > Hi, everyone - > > I was thinking about airfoils last night, and it occurred to me that not > having access to a wind tunnel isn't really a limitation if someone > wants to test the FC-10, since automobile highway speeds are a pretty > good match for Pietenpol airspeeds. If you had the proper test rig, you > could mount an airfoil section in, say, the bed of a pickup truck, > poking up well above the cab to get it into clean air, and collect data > at night on a smooth section of rural highway. > > Then I started thinking that the test rig might not be that much of a > problem, either. For a simple thought experiment, I went through how you > might measure lift at different airspeeds and angles of attack. Since a > 29 foot wing can lift a 1,000lb Piet, if we ignore edge effects (mostly > 'cause I don't know enough to know how to figure them out), that says > that a 2 foot wing section ought to be able to lift somewhere in the > neighborhood of 70lb. So, let's say you put a bathroom scale in the > truck bed. On that scale, you put a 200lb block of concrete, just to > keep the weights in the region where bathroom scales are mostly linear. > Poking out of the concrete is a pole that's high enough to get the wing > section into clear air. On top of the pole is a 2' wide section of full > cord FC-10, pivoted to let you adjust the angle of attack, maybe with a > threaded rod to hold it at the desired angle. Also, imagine some > bracing, with a ring around the pole to let the pole slide up and down, > just to keep the rig from falling over. Your test run would be to set > the AOA and note the scale reading at speed 0. Then drive a set of test > point speeds, say every 5 MPH, and have someone else read the scale. At > the end of the run, stop, readjust AOA, and repeat for the next series. > I could also imagine variations on the test rig that'd let you measure > pitching moment. > > It sounds like the things this project would really need are someone who > knows enough about the practical end of aero engineering to know exactly > what to measure and how to do it, and someone who's willing to devote > the time to building the test rig and collecting the numbers. (Neither > of whom are me, unfortunately.) > > - Jeff > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:43 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: thinking about airfoils --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" Atta way Kev.... The real world is sometimes quite different than the hypothetical stuff. I liked your description of the test vehicle and what you had to do with CG to test sections. Good stuff, Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Holcomb" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: thinking about airfoils > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kevin Holcomb" > > I worked with that sort of ground test vehicle in college. You can get > good data from it, but it is a bit tricky. At Mississippi State we used a > very old Buick roadmaster with all of the body panels removed so as to > affect the air as little as possible. You want the test sample to see only > undisturbed air. This means it has to be quite a ways up there. It also > means the vehicles CG will be quite high so we had to throw in some ballast > down low. A DAQ system recorded a couple of load cells installed on a > mechanism very much like a wind tunnel balance. However the data was > nowhere near as clean as what you get out of a tunnel so we had to do a lot > of averageing. Reducing the data was a chore; essentially you look at a > quick plot, try to find several steady seconds, and average those numbers. > Periods of acceleration, decelearation and bumps in the road (or in our > case the runway) need to be thrown out. Also, when the model gets large > compared to the vehicle things can get spooky. > > Good luck with your experiment. You can get good data if you are careful > but it is not as easy as it sounds like it might be. > > Kevin > www.airminded.net > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Jeff Cours > > To: > > Date: 2/7/2004 7:25:01 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: thinking about airfoils > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Cours > > > > Hi, everyone - > > > > I was thinking about airfoils last night, and it occurred to me that not > > having access to a wind tunnel isn't really a limitation if someone > > wants to test the FC-10, since automobile highway speeds are a pretty > > good match for Pietenpol airspeeds. If you had the proper test rig, you > > could mount an airfoil section in, say, the bed of a pickup truck, > > poking up well above the cab to get it into clean air, and collect data > > at night on a smooth section of rural highway. > > > > Then I started thinking that the test rig might not be that much of a > > problem, either. For a simple thought experiment, I went through how you > > might measure lift at different airspeeds and angles of attack. Since a > > 29 foot wing can lift a 1,000lb Piet, if we ignore edge effects (mostly > > 'cause I don't know enough to know how to figure them out), that says > > that a 2 foot wing section ought to be able to lift somewhere in the > > neighborhood of 70lb. So, let's say you put a bathroom scale in the > > truck bed. On that scale, you put a 200lb block of concrete, just to > > keep the weights in the region where bathroom scales are mostly linear. > > Poking out of the concrete is a pole that's high enough to get the wing > > section into clear air. On top of the pole is a 2' wide section of full > > cord FC-10, pivoted to let you adjust the angle of attack, maybe with a > > threaded rod to hold it at the desired angle. Also, imagine some > > bracing, with a ring around the pole to let the pole slide up and down, > > just to keep the rig from falling over. Your test run would be to set > > the AOA and note the scale reading at speed 0. Then drive a set of test > > point speeds, say every 5 MPH, and have someone else read the scale. At > > the end of the run, stop, readjust AOA, and repeat for the next series. > > I could also imagine variations on the test rig that'd let you measure > > pitching moment. > > > > It sounds like the things this project would really need are someone who > > knows enough about the practical end of aero engineering to know exactly > > what to measure and how to do it, and someone who's willing to devote > > the time to building the test rig and collecting the numbers. (Neither > > of whom are me, unfortunately.) > > > > - Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:31 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Changing the subject --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 2/6/04 7:46:30 PM Central Standard Time, Andimaxd@aol.com writes: << Am I supposed to cover the belly of this beast (underside of the fuse) with fabric or leave it wood? I would assume you are supposed to cover it, but I saw a fly baby the other day, and the fabric stopped at the bottom of the fuselage. I am going to have an aluminum access panel from the pilots seat aft all the way the tail wheel. >> I covered my belly (on the airplane :) ) with fabric, to protect the plywood from all the fluids and exhaust the engine barfs out. I installed two standard access covers under the bellcrank, and made some adjustments to the turnbuckles going up to the control stick, in there last spring. I don't like the thought of a huge access panel all the way back...what if it blew off ?? Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:30 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front & Center --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 2/6/04 6:51:03 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes: << In 1999 Doc and Bill Rewey along with Grant M. got us a reserved parking area near show center at Oshkosh in the homebuilt area. This was fine except for two very annoying things: 1) There was no easy way to lug your camping gear over to the camping area behind the Theater In The Woods, and 2) When the afternoon airshow started people crammed their chairs in, under, and closely around every Pietenpol since they provide great shade. We had to ask some to move so we could put our chairs under our own plane. We had one guy who repeatedly stood up with his video camera and bashed my left aileron with his head trying to get views of a plane passing by. When we told the guy to stop he had no idea what he was doing wrong. We caught one guy leaning his chair way back to see the planes overhead and his seat back was pressing into the fabric near the side stringer. We also had the occasional smoker who always seemed to like to look at the engine area where our gascolator is located. Luckily we got the float mod so our carb doesn't leak anymore. We felt like we could not enjoy the show due to worrying about what was happening to the plane. Admittedly, no permanent harm was done that we ever found, but the potential is very great up close to the flight line. I know the area by the Theater in the Woods is usually filled with biplanes like Stearmans and such but to me, that would be the primo area for parking the Piets since the foot traffic and spectators are soooe much less congested in that area and we would be very, very, close to the campground and showers. Just some thought from our experience in 99. Mike C. PS-- don't get me wrong--it was neat having such a prominent seat in the house for us Pietenpols and I am grateful that we can attend such a huge and diverse airshow (to even live in this country is a blessing, but within flying distance of Oshkosh !), but I have no grey hair yet and don't like pushing it:)) >> Mike, Very good points !! I'm afraid I would have to personally escort someone like that, out of the area !! I'll vote for a spot over by Theater in the Woods !! Chuck Gantzer NX770CG