Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Re: HIPEC (Gnwac@cs.com)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: HIPEC (KRSBtv@aol.com)
3. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Another change of subject. . . (Carl Loar)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: HIPEC (Waytogopiet@aol.com)
5. 09:47 AM - Re: HIPEC (Gadd, Skip)
6. 01:35 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (Alex Sloan)
7. 03:15 PM - wind tunnel (Robert Haines)
8. 03:52 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
9. 04:34 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (Racing4funn@aol.com)
10. 04:34 PM - Re: wind tunnel (Racing4funn@aol.com)
11. 04:35 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (Racing4funn@aol.com)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (TomTravis@aol.com)
13. 04:39 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (TomTravis@aol.com)
14. 05:04 PM - Potty-Mouth Squelched... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
15. 05:08 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (KRSBtv@aol.com)
16. 05:12 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
17. 05:14 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
18. 06:14 PM - Test (Gary Gower)
19. 06:31 PM - Re: HIPEC (dave rowe)
20. 06:32 PM - Re: HIPEC (dave rowe)
21. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: Another change of subject. . . (dave rowe)
22. 06:49 PM - Re: HIPEC (dave rowe)
23. 07:03 PM - Re: HIPEC (dave rowe)
24. 07:52 PM - Re: Question of the week???????????? (dave rowe)
25. 07:59 PM - Re: RV-List: Potty-Mouth Squelched... (Cy Galley)
26. 08:04 PM - Re: HIPEC (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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In a message dated 2/11/04 1:43:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, rowed044@shaw.ca
writes:
> www.slotcar.com/drs/gachart.htm
Dave
Thanks for the conversion chart. Where did you go to find the comparative
data to swap out the steel for al.
I have some fittings that I purchased already laser precut (28) of them. But
for most of the others if they work, the al. in its stead would add some
additional qualities that the steel doesn't offer.
Greg Menoche
Delaware
Message 2
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There was an earlier post about the suitability of gluing fabric to
undercamber wings. When I posted my info about Avids and Kitfox, I guess I didn't
make
it clear that both styles of wings (undercamber as on the STOL and Heavy
Hauler wings and the traditional rib on the Speedwing) never had fabric separation
when using the glue-only process.
A friend stalled my Avid out on takeoff and the plane was totaled. Not a
single fabric glue joint (at the juncture where fabric was glued directly to the
capstrip on the spar) failed in the crash. I've done a lot of checking with
friends in the last few days, and no one is aware of fabric pulling off of
capstrips on any Kitfox or Avid, aerobatic ... heavy hauler or speedwing.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Another change of subject. . . |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@buckeye-express.com>
Man. you really don't want to ribstitch do you?
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave rowe" <rowed044@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: Another change of subject. . .
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
>
> I've just talked to the manager at Falconar Avia Inc, the Cdn dealer for
> HiPec, they also have a spuer line of wood/fabric bush planes, Chris the
> developer of HiPec is on vacation til the 25th, but their manual should
> be at my doorstep any day. They emphatically state that they have had
> NO failures of any sort with this covering process, and that includes
> undercambered wings. I will have to wait until the book arrives to get
> more info, but if you wish to inquire directly to them, the can be
> reached at telephone, 1-780-465-2024, or e-mail falconar@tic.ab.ca.
> Note they won't be able to answer specifics on Hipec til after the
> 25th. Hope this helps, anyone wishing data from the book, e-mail me
> direct with your questions, and I'll fire off answers once the book is
> in my hands!
>
>
Message 4
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In a message dated 2/11/2004 12:43:21 AM Central Standard Time,
rowed044@shaw.ca writes:
All attempts at
separating the fabric from 1/4 to 3/4 inch ribs resulted in tearing of
the wood fibre, the glue joint remained intact.
How comforting would it be to see wood fibres on the fabric as you examine
the wreckage? Sorry, I'll stick with the old tried and true on this one Don
Message 5
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
Dave,
I have a question for the HiPec book.
Do they specifically recommend it without rib stitching for built-up, truss
type ribs?
I will give you that if the fabric/wood joint is strong enough to tear wood
fibers when separated, than the joint itself should not be a problem. I can
also see the under camber should not be a problem.
My concern is the strength of the rib itself in tension.
I guess I am just traditionalist enough that I will rib stitch anyway, but I
am interested in there take on truss ribs.
Thanks, Skip
-
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
Corky,
It is on the front burner and we should be hearing something some time this spring
or summer.
Alex Sloan
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question of the week????????????
Pieters,
Anyone have any idea where they, those exalted beauros, have the sport pilot
bundle stashed away??????????? Haven't seen or heard anything for awhile. Is it
still breathing?
Corky still waiting in La
Message 7
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Haines" <robertsjunk@hotmail.com>
This morning, I dropped by my alma mater, Southern Illinois University, to
track down the wind tunnel that was in the Fluid Dynamics Lab. It has been
over a decade since I took the class and the university has since renovated
the School of Engineering so I would have been lucky to find it in the same
place. I had the assistant dean calling several departments to track it
down and it was evidently horse traded to the School of Aviation (where it
should have been in the first place). So I drove out to the airport. I met
the department head and he gave me the grand tour and there it was, right
next to the supersonic wind tunnel, between several cut-away jet engines,
and next to enough airplane stuff to make me want to quit my job and just
hang out there every day. He said that they don't use it much, but
considering that it had the same sample wing section in it as it did 14
years ago, I would say they haven't used it at all. He said that if I
wanted to make some wing sections, I could have full access to it. He also
said that if I needed some help, they have these things called undergraduate
students.
The only problem is that it only has the instrumentation to do lift and
drag. It would need an additional equipment, such as a third load cell, to
determine center of pressure, which in a university setting is not hard to
drum up. Since there has been so much debate regarding the moment generated
by the FC-10 and it other characteristics, I thought a full set of charts on
the airfoil might be nice to have.
My questions for the group are: has anyone already produced this
information? Is there a computer software package available that analyzes
wing sections so building models is not necessary? Not that I wouldn't love
to do this, it's just my time is pretty scare already and I'd hate to waste
it.
Robert Haines
Du Quoin, Illinois
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
What year. Someone told me the same words back in 2000.
Corky waiting in wet La
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
FUCK YOU!!!
Message 10
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FUCK YOU!!!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
FUCK YOU!!!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
What on earth provoked that????
Tom Travis
(At least I'll
sign my name)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
You know guys, I've enjoyed meeting some fine people on this board and have
learned a lot, however, I don't need this sort of thing. I try to make it a
point to only associate with quality people and whoever this person is, he
doesn't qualify.
If this persists you can deal me out.
Tom Travis
Message 14
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"Fw: RV-List: Crossflow Engine Proposal" (Feb 11, 4:56pm)
RV8-List@matronics.com, Pietenpol-List@matronics.com,
Kitfox-List@matronics.com, Tailwind-List@matronics.com
| Subject: | Potty-Mouth Squelched... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Hi Ed and all,
This annoying fellow has been unsubscribed. I was able to kill a whole
bunch of similar posts from him, but unfortunately quite a few got
through before I could stop them. Funny how he could take the time
to send out all those offensive messages, but not the time to unsubscribe
himself.
My appologies.
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
>--------------
>Hi Matt,
>
>I don't know where the below email came from other than its the Racing4Funn
>address, but the message it conveys clearly falls below the standards we set
>for ourselves on the lists - even when parties get emotional. So I (and I'm
>sure most others agree) this is no place for folks like this on the list. I
>presume that he is a subscriber, so unsubscribing him would be the
>appropriate action. If it was an unauthorized use of some legitimate
>subscribers e mail, then he should at least be make aware of it.
>
>Sincerely
>
>Ed
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Racing4funn@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:33 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Crossflow Engine Proposal
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Racing4funn@aol.com
>>
>> F*CK Y*U!!!
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
Tom and all:
I have reported all three e-mail's to the powers that be at AOL. I suspect
they will yank his chain, if not cancel his membership to AOL.
Probably just some 16 year old boy, no friends, unpopular and trying to draw
attention to his shortcomings and immaturity.
Sterling Brooks
Runnels County Texas
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
I bet you wouldn't drop down to La and tell me that to my face. I'll also bet
you won't ID your self and give me an address.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
I'm getting in line with you.
Corky
Message 18
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Test
Do not archive
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 19
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
MatWeb is the site, you do have to do some careful comparisons, I'm
lucky in that I have two aeronautical engineers at work, and my father
was astructural engineer, and left me a lot of books and data. You can
e-mail me at rowed044@shaw.ca with specifics, and I can get the answers.
Message 20
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
Agree, the HiPec book deals specifically with undercambered wings, and
details the making of a test piece, when complete strips are cut and
then pulled of using a fish scale to confirm strength. Good way to
check any system for a first-time user.
KRSBtv@aol.com wrote:
>
> There was an earlier post about the suitability of gluing fabric to
> undercamber wings. When I posted my info about Avids and Kitfox, I
> guess I didn't make it clear that both styles of wings (undercamber as
> on the STOL and Heavy Hauler wings and the traditional rib on the
> Speedwing) never had fabric separation when using the glue-only
> process.
>
> A friend stalled my Avid out on takeoff and the plane was totaled. Not
> a single fabric glue joint (at the juncture where fabric was glued
> directly to the capstrip on the spar) failed in the crash. I've done a
> lot of checking with friends in the last few days, and no one is aware
> of fabric pulling off of capstrips on any Kitfox or Avid, aerobatic
> ... heavy hauler or speedwing.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Another change of subject. . . |
<4029326D.6B2F9AA9@shaw.ca> <001301c3f0c5$3e5d47b0$6401a8c0@carl>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
Actually my wife was designated head ribstitcher! She's trying to
weasel out of it! I won't make my final decision until I read the other
manufacturer's books, and build a test piece and abuse it horribly.
Will send photos to the group when I'm done.
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Loar" <skycarl@buckeye-express.com>
>
> Man. you really don't want to ribstitch do you?
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave rowe" <rowed044@shaw.ca>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: Another change of subject. . .
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
> >
> > I've just talked to the manager at Falconar Avia Inc, the Cdn dealer for
> > HiPec, they also have a spuer line of wood/fabric bush planes, Chris the
> > developer of HiPec is on vacation til the 25th, but their manual should
> > be at my doorstep any day. They emphatically state that they have had
> > NO failures of any sort with this covering process, and that includes
> > undercambered wings. I will have to wait until the book arrives to get
> > more info, but if you wish to inquire directly to them, the can be
> > reached at telephone, 1-780-465-2024, or e-mail falconar@tic.ab.ca.
> > Note they won't be able to answer specifics on Hipec til after the
> > 25th. Hope this helps, anyone wishing data from the book, e-mail me
> > direct with your questions, and I'll fire off answers once the book is
> > in my hands!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
The forces required to do so were 9G. I don't plan on being conscious
following any manouever resulting in that amount of force on a Piet!! I
wouldn't consider not stitching on anything fast, highly loaded, or
aerobatic, but I can say I flew a German Berg Falcon glider in europe
for 4 yrs with a similar system to hipec, I routinely pulled 3-4Gs, as
did everyone else, no problems. It's definately a matter of choice, I'm
still investigating before I chose.
Message 23
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
What they are trying to say is, if you are relying on the fabric to act
as a bag for your smashed up ribs, it will. The adhesive is stronger
than the wood, just as epoxy is. If the ribs are properly built and
gusseted, it is not a problem. Glue up a test rib, clamp it to your
vice, via the bottom of the truss, take a fish scale, hook it on the top
and pull. That is the force required to break the wood at a specific
area. Then calculate that over the entire surface area of the rib. .
See my point? What is the breaking point of the stitching? If it isn't
at least 900lbs, or 10X the wing weight, the fabric doesn't need it,
and I have a feeling that if you're separating the truss structure of
the wing, all that stitching will make it easier to wrap up the broken
pieces after the crash.
This system is not new. 40 yrs, not one failure, and an approved STC by
Transport Canada. I've used the stuff in high-performance models, with
very high weights, speeds, and Gs. It works. Problem is we have been
told for many years that there is only one way. Similar to steel being
the only metal to use. The reasoning in the thirties was this:
Steel=cheap, readily aval. Structural 6061T6 Aluminum, not yet
invented. Doesn't mean it doesn't work just cause it's not original.
Ribstitching came about as a result of the fabrics and adhesives then
aval. We have better, cheaper, eaiser to use products now. It's not a
matter of safety, but a matter of preference. Were I to do a 1:1 scale
Sopwith Camel, I would go as original as possible, especially the
stitching. It would look funny without it. I think the goal of the
Pietenpol was an easy to build affordable aircraft for the masses. I
don't think he would get hung up on copying his design to the letter.
Good god I talk to much, must go make sawdust!!!! Cheers, Dave
"Gadd, Skip" wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
>
> Dave,
> I have a question for the HiPec book.
> Do they specifically recommend it without rib stitching for built-up, truss
> type ribs?
> I will give you that if the fabric/wood joint is strong enough to tear wood
> fibers when separated, than the joint itself should not be a problem. I can
> also see the under camber should not be a problem.
> My concern is the strength of the rib itself in tension.
> I guess I am just traditionalist enough that I will rib stitch anyway, but I
> am interested in there take on truss ribs.
> Thanks, Skip
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Question of the week???????????? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
If you find him, I can crash a ten ton helicopter on him. They're old,
paid for, and don't work too good anyway !!!!!
Message 25
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<Commander-List@matronics.com>, <RV8-List@matronics.com>,
<Pietenpol-List@matronics.com>, <Kitfox-List@matronics.com>,
<Tailwind-List@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Potty-Mouth Squelched... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I just forwarded the messages to abuse@aol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
<RV8-List@matronics.com>; <Pietenpol-List@matronics.com>;
<Kitfox-List@matronics.com>; <Tailwind-List@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Potty-Mouth Squelched...
> --> RV-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
> Hi Ed and all,
>
> This annoying fellow has been unsubscribed. I was able to kill a whole
> bunch of similar posts from him, but unfortunately quite a few got
> through before I could stop them. Funny how he could take the time
> to send out all those offensive messages, but not the time to unsubscribe
> himself.
>
> My appologies.
>
> Matt Dralle
> List Admin.
>
>
> >--------------
> >Hi Matt,
> >
> >I don't know where the below email came from other than its the
Racing4Funn
> >address, but the message it conveys clearly falls below the standards we
set
> >for ourselves on the lists - even when parties get emotional. So I (and
I'm
> >sure most others agree) this is no place for folks like this on the list.
I
> >presume that he is a subscriber, so unsubscribing him would be the
> >appropriate action. If it was an unauthorized use of some legitimate
> >subscribers e mail, then he should at least be make aware of it.
> >
> >Sincerely
> >
> >Ed
> >Ed Anderson
> >RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> >Matthews, NC
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Racing4funn@aol.com>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:33 PM
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Crossflow Engine Proposal
> >
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Racing4funn@aol.com
> >>
> >> F*CK Y*U!!!
> >--------------
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
Message 26
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 2/11/04 9:04:39 PM Central Standard Time, rowed044@shaw.ca
writes:
<< This system is not new. 40 yrs, not one failure, and an approved STC by
Transport Canada. >>
I still prefer rib stitching, no matter what type of adhesive is used.
Stitching sandwiches the assembly together from the outer surface, instead of
depending on adhesives that attach the faying surfaces.
Chuck Gantzer
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