Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:11 AM - Wind Tunnel (rhartwig11@juno.com)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Wind Tunnel (Ken Chambers)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Wind Tunnel (bike.mike)
4. 08:21 AM - Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Andimaxd@aol.com)
5. 08:31 AM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Gary Gower)
6. 08:57 AM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Andimaxd@aol.com)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Gadd, Skip)
8. 09:12 AM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Andimaxd@aol.com)
9. 09:25 AM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Andimaxd@aol.com)
10. 09:37 AM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Gadd, Skip)
11. 11:11 AM - wind tunnel (Oscar Zuniga)
12. 12:02 PM - Re: wind tunnel (bike.mike)
13. 01:16 PM - Re: wind tunnel (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
14. 03:22 PM - Alternative engine roundup... (Oscar Zuniga)
15. 03:39 PM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Jack Phillips)
16. 07:42 PM - Re: Wind Tunnel (Gnwac@cs.com)
17. 07:50 PM - wind tunnel (Oscar Zuniga)
18. 08:09 PM - Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? (Ted Brousseau)
19. 08:13 PM - Re: wind tunnel ()
20. 08:16 PM - Re: Wind Tunnel (Christian Bobka)
21. 10:19 PM - Re: wind tunnel (jimboyer@direcway.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
Please don't do the wind tunnel testing. If you do--don't post the
findings on the Pietenpol list. We may learn something new about the
Pietenpol and its airfoil. Don't you know that learning by experience is
the best teacher (OK, it may also be the most deadly way to learn.) We
just like to build exactly to the plans with no deviations. If there is
a modification that can save lives, we don't want to know about it. If I
can get better stall characteristics by rounding the airfoil nose a
little--I don't want to know about it. After all what you don't know
can't hurt you--right? We all build exactly to the plans: engine
weights identical, fuselage lengths identical, gear placement ..... gross
weight......wing placement....horizontal stab....all identical...don't
we???.... so why do we have to know anything about the wing? We are into
homebuilding of aircraft strictly to slap a plane together and get into
the air, we don't want to be bothered by learning anything along the way.
And.....besides that.....those wind tunnel gadgets really don't
accomplish anything. If they did, the Wright brothers would have used
one.........uh....forget I said that. We should all write to our friends
in Washington and tell them to quit wasting our money on these gadgets.
Dick Hartwig
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ken Chambers" <kchambers@winternals.com>
I agree Dick.
Bernard Pietenpol is dead, and that means all progress on the design of
this aircraft must come to a halt. It is frozen in time and must remain
so.
So shut up, put your blinders on, and build!
Ken in Austin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rhartwig11@juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wind Tunnel
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
Please don't do the wind tunnel testing. If you do--don't post the
findings on the Pietenpol list. We may learn something new about the
Pietenpol and its airfoil. Don't you know that learning by experience
is
the best teacher (OK, it may also be the most deadly way to learn.) We
just like to build exactly to the plans with no deviations. If there is
a modification that can save lives, we don't want to know about it. If
I
can get better stall characteristics by rounding the airfoil nose a
little--I don't want to know about it. After all what you don't know
can't hurt you--right? We all build exactly to the plans: engine
weights identical, fuselage lengths identical, gear placement .....
gross
weight......wing placement....horizontal stab....all identical...don't
we???.... so why do we have to know anything about the wing? We are
into
homebuilding of aircraft strictly to slap a plane together and get into
the air, we don't want to be bothered by learning anything along the
way.
And.....besides that.....those wind tunnel gadgets really don't
accomplish anything. If they did, the Wright brothers would have used
one.........uh....forget I said that. We should all write to our
friends
in Washington and tell them to quit wasting our money on these gadgets.
Dick Hartwig
==
==
==
==
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Dick,
I appreciate what your ironic letter was trying to accomplish; I, too, think
more knowledge is better. I have spent a good portion of my life in
furthering the quest for aerodynamic knowledge.
However, the wind tunnel testing that has been bandied about on the list
won't produce any usable knowledge that hasn't already been learned,
sometimes the hard way, in flight.
For example, it has long been known that a more rounded leading edge on the
"FC-10" makes for more gentle and predictable stall characteristics. A wind
tunnel test, if it is properly scaled, set up and analyzed, will show the
same thing. If it is not properly done, though, it may show something
completely different. If those results lead someone to, for instance,
sharpen the leading edge, the result could be disastrous. (At small
Reynolds Numbers, a sharp leading edge works very well.)
There are many other examples where an improperly run wind tunnel test can
produce results that don't help, and can even hurt, the acquisition of
knowledge.
You mention the Wright brothers' wind tunnel testing. They did learn some
very useful things in their little tunnel. They also learned, or thought
they did, that a canard configuration that was unstable in pitch and roll
was best for the 1903 flyer. They didn't "unlearn" that until the 1908 and
1910 airplanes.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11@juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wind Tunnel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
>
> To: Robert Haines,
> Please don't do the wind tunnel testing. If you do--don't post the
> findings on the Pietenpol list. We may learn something new about the
> Pietenpol and its airfoil. Don't you know that learning by experience is
> the best teacher (OK, it may also be the most deadly way to learn.) We
> just like to build exactly to the plans with no deviations. If there is
> a modification that can save lives, we don't want to know about it. If I
> can get better stall characteristics by rounding the airfoil nose a
> little--I don't want to know about it. After all what you don't know
> can't hurt you--right? We all build exactly to the plans: engine
> weights identical, fuselage lengths identical, gear placement ..... gross
> weight......wing placement....horizontal stab....all identical...don't
> we???.... so why do we have to know anything about the wing? We are into
> homebuilding of aircraft strictly to slap a plane together and get into
> the air, we don't want to be bothered by learning anything along the way.
> And.....besides that.....those wind tunnel gadgets really don't
> accomplish anything. If they did, the Wright brothers would have used
> one.........uh....forget I said that. We should all write to our friends
> in Washington and tell them to quit wasting our money on these gadgets.
> Dick Hartwig
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
Pietenpolers:
Doing a search on the list archive, I came across a reply from Gary Gower to
Steve Eldredge (March 13, 1997) making mention of a Stearman "Dial" type fuel
gauge for the center section wing tank. I do not want a glass or plastic tube
hanging down and the magneto operated electric fuel gauge seems too
complicated for a Piet. Does anyone know of a source for this item.
Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
About to start plumbing,
Max
Arlington, TX.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Max,
Well, this gauge is exactly that, a "plastic" (maybe some type of
clear nylon ???) tube that conects to the bottom of the wing tank and
the cork goes inside the tank, has marks every 1/4 of the tank, the
travel is about 8". the lower part can be used as drain, just change
the blue plug.
Hope this helps
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Andimaxd@aol.com wrote:
>
> Pietenpolers:
>
> Doing a search on the list archive, I came across a reply from Gary
> Gower to
> Steve Eldredge (March 13, 1997) making mention of a Stearman "Dial"
> type fuel
> gauge for the center section wing tank. I do not want a glass or
> plastic tube
> hanging down and the magneto operated electric fuel gauge seems too
> complicated for a Piet. Does anyone know of a source for this item.
>
>
> Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
>
> About to start plumbing,
> Max
> Arlington, TX.
>
>
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
In a message dated 2/19/2004 10:32:08 AM Central Standard Time,
ggower_99@yahoo.com writes:
> Hello Max,
>
> Well, this gauge is exactly that, a "plastic" (maybe some type of
> clear nylon ???) tube that conects to the bottom of the wing tank and
> the cork goes inside the tank, has marks every 1/4 of the tank, the
> travel is about 8". the lower part can be used as drain, just change
> the blue plug.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
Gary:
Thanks for replying,
What I thought we were talking about, is a Dial -- a gauge like what is on a
propane farm tractor, it has a float but it operates a needle on a dial.=A0=20I
thought I saw one at Brodhead last year.=A0 Maybe it was a compass or something
though..
Max
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
Max,
Some use a Model A gas gauge, it has a glass lens with rotating dial, but
would not be as "accident waiting to happen" as the Stearman type glass
tube. Snyders sells them for $33.00. If you saw the blue and cream Model A
Piet at Brodhead, this is what he has.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Andimaxd@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
Pietenpolers:
Doing a search on the list archive, I came across a reply from Gary Gower to
Steve Eldredge (March 13, 1997) making mention of a Stearman "Dial" type
fuel gauge for the center section wing tank. I do not want a glass or
plastic tube hanging down and the magneto operated electric fuel gauge seems
too complicated for a Piet. Does anyone know of a source for this item.
Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
About to start plumbing,
Max
Arlington, TX.
Message
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
Max,
Some
use a Model A gas gauge, it has a glasslens with rotatingdial, but
would not be as "accident waiting to happen" as the Stearman type glass tube.
Snyders sells them for $33.00. If you saw the blue and cream Model A Piet at
Brodhead, this is what he has.
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Skip
<FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Andimaxd@aol.com
AM
Subject:
Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
<FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10">
Pietenpolers:
Doing a search on the list
archive, I came across a reply from Gary Gower to Steve Eldredge (March 13,
1997) making mention of a Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge for the center
section wing tank. I do not want a glass or plastic tube hanging down
and the magneto operated electric fuel gauge seems too complicated for a
Piet. Does anyone know of a source for this item.
Any
assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
About to start
plumbing,
Max
Arlington, TX.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
In a message dated 2/19/2004 11:08:18 AM Central Standard Time,
Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov writes:
> Max,
> Some use a Model A gas gauge, it has a glass lens with rotating dial, but
> would not be as "accident waiting to happen" as the Stearman type glass tube.
> Snyders sells them for $33.00. If you saw the blue and cream Model A Piet at
> Brodhead, this is what he has.
> Skip
>
Skip:
Thank you, that sounds like the one! I am not familiar with Snyders. Can
you give me contact info.
This was mounted on the bottom of the tank at about a 45 degree angle, and
seems like it would be the lesser of the evils at this point.
Max
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
In a message dated 2/19/2004 11:12:44 AM Central Standard Time,
Andimaxd@aol.com writes:
> Skip:
>
> Thank you, that sounds like the one! I am not familiar with Snyders. Can
> you give me contact info.
>
> This was mounted on the bottom of the tank at about a 45 degree angle, and
> seems like it would be the lesser of the evils at this point.
>
> Max
Skip:
I found Snyders Antique Auto Parts on the net... Thanks a bunch !!!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
Max,
Yea, that's the guys.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Andimaxd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
In a message dated 2/19/2004 11:12:44 AM Central Standard Time,
Andimaxd@aol.com writes:
Skip:
Thank you, that sounds like the one! I am not familiar with Snyders. Can
you give me contact info.
This was mounted on the bottom of the tank at about a 45 degree angle, and
seems like it would be the lesser of the evils at this point.
Max
Skip:
I found Snyders Antique Auto Parts on the net... Thanks a bunch !!!
Message
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Max,
Yea,
that's the guys.
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Skip
<FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Andimaxd@aol.com
PM
Subject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
<FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10">In a message dated 2/19/2004 11:12:44 AM Central Standard Time,
Andimaxd@aol.com writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT:
0px"
TYPE="CITE">Skip:
Thank you, that sounds like the one! I am not
familiar with Snyders. Can you give me contact info.
This was
mounted on the bottom of the tank at about a 45 degree angle, and seems like
it would be the lesser of the evils at this point.
Max
Skip:
I found Snyders Antique Auto Parts on the
net... Thanks a bunch !!!
Message 11
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Bike.Mike asks-
>What is it that you expect to learn by performing a wind tunnel test?
Characteristic curves, man! Graphs of coefficients of lift, and drag! X
and Y axes, with numbers and things! We nerdy types (I'm an engineer) live
for graphs and formulae, and when we can reduce "touchy-feely" to numerical
and graphical quantification, then we can dig in with glee. All these years
this airfoil has been out there but it was developed by feel and the
performance results are all empirical. To those of us who live in the
'what-if' world, we need graphs and numbers and analyses to slake our
thirst. To those who are wondering about tweaking the airfoil (please don't
kick me off the list), a starting point is needed. That starting point is
the airfoil characteristics, the graphs, the plots, the numbers! Don't you
see?
But you knew that, Mike. You wanted to quash technical discussion out of
respect for a marvelous and time-proven, grand old dame... the Piet and her
enigmatic airfoil. You wanted to keep people from looking under her skirts,
from lifting her veil, from seeing her without her makeup on. You wanted to
protect her from "modernization", from the ugly hands of those who would
Rutan-ize her and turn her into something other than what she really needs
to be for all time, for us who see the design in its 75th year of successful
existence, and for builders and pilots not yet even born. I know you, Mike!
But cut us engineers a tiny bit of slack and let us play with the
computers, will ya? It's in our blood...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.
Message 12
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Oscar,
I have an engineer's heart, too, and I love numbers as much as anyone. My
concern is that, considering the understanding that I read between the lines
on the list, someone will produce numbers that have no relationship to any
other airfoil numbers. Then I fear that others will use those numbers and
assume they're gospel. What good are numbers that can't be relied on?
If someone can resurrect Abbot and Von Donhoff and use their techniques and
their old tunnel at Langley, I'll shut up and groove on those beautiful
drag polars and L/D curves.
But if a hobbyist carves a 6" approximation of a Piet wing and claims that
his numbers from a different tunnel can be compared to those of other
airfoils found in NACA Report 824 and give a valid basis for comparison of
the Piet wing with those other airfoils in flight, he's blowing smoke thick
enough to cloud reason.
Better numbers can be discerned from the flight testing that has been done
for years on our "grande dame".
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wind tunnel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Bike.Mike asks-
>
> >What is it that you expect to learn by performing a wind tunnel test?
>
> Characteristic curves, man! Graphs of coefficients of lift, and drag! X
> and Y axes, with numbers and things! We nerdy types (I'm an engineer)
live
> for graphs and formulae, and when we can reduce "touchy-feely" to
numerical
> and graphical quantification, then we can dig in with glee. All these
years
> this airfoil has been out there but it was developed by feel and the
> performance results are all empirical. To those of us who live in the
> 'what-if' world, we need graphs and numbers and analyses to slake our
> thirst. To those who are wondering about tweaking the airfoil (please
don't
> kick me off the list), a starting point is needed. That starting point is
> the airfoil characteristics, the graphs, the plots, the numbers! Don't
you
> see?
>
> But you knew that, Mike. You wanted to quash technical discussion out of
> respect for a marvelous and time-proven, grand old dame... the Piet and
her
> enigmatic airfoil. You wanted to keep people from looking under her
skirts,
> from lifting her veil, from seeing her without her makeup on. You wanted
to
> protect her from "modernization", from the ugly hands of those who would
> Rutan-ize her and turn her into something other than what she really needs
> to be for all time, for us who see the design in its 75th year of
successful
> existence, and for builders and pilots not yet even born. I know you,
Mike!
> But cut us engineers a tiny bit of slack and let us play with the
> computers, will ya? It's in our blood...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
Message 13
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
This seems like an basic difference in philosophies, both of which are right.
First of all, these airplanes fall under the "experimental" category. If someone
wishes to experiment and publish his data, there is absolutely nothing wrong
with it. The good of those numbers is to be a baseline of learning... perhaps
learning the right way... or wrong way to build an airplane. It is still knowledge
gained. Anyone who never learned by making a mistake or from the mistakes
of others has not benefited much from humanity.
Second of all, the BHP Pietenpol Aircamper is a well proven design. If someone
wishes to build it to plans, because they do not care to venture into an unproven
design, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Some folks just want
to fly the loveable little Piet as BHP designed it.
So to argue over this is pointless. If the man wishes to test in a wind tunnel
or run analyses on computer and publish his findings, I say more power to him.
Maybe someone has already done it, maybe not. But some folks like to do this
sort of thing. And if they do...I say, publish it.
But for anyone to take that published data and consider it as "gospel" is not very
smart. Granted, some folks ARE that dumb. Those folks really shouldn't meddle
in building airplanes in the first place. And if they do, they are likely
to find one way or another to have some sort of an accident anyhow.
But most people involved in aviation, whether a weekend homebuilder or a professional
engineer, just do not take aircraft building so lightly. In fact, I see
most homebuilders end up doing enough research to satisfy themselves that what
they are going to risk their neck on is safe. Sure, they may not go to the
extent of testing as is done by aircraft manufacturers, but most do a lot of
learning from successful aircraft designers (like BHP, Tony B & others) when making
decisions. And even better, in our case, we all have a special email list
here with a lot of knowledgable builders to bounce our ideas off of and to
learn from. Some of us have learned what we know through the process of ground
testing, modeling, reading, making mistakes, and just by doing.
I have flown a corvair Piet. I have been a passenger in a model A Piet. And I
loved every minute. Personally, I am in this because I like to fly low and slow.
The aircamper seems the best way I know to do it safely and affordably.
I plan to stick with the proven design of BHP. My free time is too valuable
for me to spend researching and developing major changes to the design. My only
major deviation is that I plan to use a Continental engine because I feel it
is the safest way to go for what I want to do. I am comfortable risking my
neck on what I have learned about the success rate of the aircamper. Whatever
others decide is comfortable to them is their business. I expect I'll be flying
my Piet long before the wind tunnel data has been thoroughly examined.
But to criticize someone about wanting to test and learn before risking his neck
is short sighted in my opinion.
Sorry this is so long...it just strikes a nerve with me because I make my living
doing R&D, Testing, and certifying airplanes to make them safer.
Terry L. Bowden
Message 14
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STOL@onelist.com, ultravair@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Alternative engine roundup... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
I'm passing along info on an upcoming fly-in event featuring alternative
engines. Info on this website:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundUp.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer!
Message 15
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| Subject: | Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
Max,
Gages similar to what you are describing have been used for years on high
wing airplanes, such as Cessna 140s, Citabrias and the like. A cork on the
end of a rod turns a needle in a dial by a system of gears. If you are
using a wing tank you could probably adapt one to fit. For a deep tank like
a fuselage nose tank, they might not be as practical.
I might have one off my old Cessna 140. I'll look in the shop tonight and
see if I can find it.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Andimaxd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
In a message dated 2/19/2004 10:32:08 AM Central Standard Time,
ggower_99@yahoo.com writes:
Hello Max,
Well, this gauge is exactly that, a "plastic" (maybe some type of
clear nylon ???) tube that conects to the bottom of the wing tank and
the cork goes inside the tank, has marks every 1/4 of the tank, the
travel is about 8". the lower part can be used as drain, just change
the blue plug.
Hope this helps
Saludos
Gary Gower
Gary:
Thanks for replying,
What I thought we were talking about, is a Dial -- a gauge like what is on a
propane farm tractor, it has a float but it operates a needle on a dial. I
thought I saw one at Brodhead last year. Maybe it was a compass or
something though..
Max
Message 16
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To Dick and Ken and Others:
I disagree!
I would like to know as much about the plane I am going to fly for my sake
and the sake of the passengers I will be responsible for when I do.
We ALL know that the plane BHP designed is GOOD, SOUND and RELIABLE. Who
said anything about changing the BHP design! I believe that Robert's whole
concept with the FC10 airfoil and wind tunnel plan is for general all purpose,
wouldn't be neat to know, you could win beers at parties with this stuff,
DATA. The design doesn't have to change and I don't think anyone has stated or
is encouraging any changes. I am planning on building mine as close as
possible to the plans with most of the notable improvements (Cont. 85, tail
wheel,...).
If anything does come of the tunnel tests and data is placed on the list, if
you don't want to save it, store it or use it, please press DELETE. Knowledge
is power. Know all there is to know about what your sitting in.
Greg Menoche
Delaware
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
If you good folks can tolerate one last post from me on the more romantic
side of this discussion, here's a little excerpt from Joshua Slocum's
"Sailing Alone Around the World", where Slocum describes his sloop, the
"Spray":
"If I took measurements by rule I did not set them down, and after sailing
even the longest voyage in her I could not tell offhand the length of her
mast, boom, or gaff. I did not know the center of effort in her sails,
except as it hit me in practice at sea, nor did I care a rope yarn about it.
Mathematical calculations, however, are all right in a good boat, and the
Spray could have stood them. She was easily balanced and easily kept in
trim."
Yes, the Piet is a grand old girl, and analysis won't hurt her a bit.
do not archive
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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| Subject: | Re: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge? |
On my fuselage tank there is a cork that rides up and down turning a spiral rod.
The top of the rod turns a dial that shows from full to empty in the 360 degrees
around it. I think I have seen them sold in ACS.
Ted Brousseau
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
Max,
Gages similar to what you are describing have been used for years on high wing
airplanes, such as Cessna 140s, Citabrias and the like. A cork on the end of
a rod turns a needle in a dial by a system of gears. If you are using a wing
tank you could probably adapt one to fit. For a deep tank like a fuselage nose
tank, they might not be as practical.
I might have one off my old Cessna 140. I'll look in the shop tonight and see
if I can find it.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andimaxd@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:57 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stearman "Dial" type fuel gauge?
In a message dated 2/19/2004 10:32:08 AM Central Standard Time, ggower_99@yahoo.com
writes:
Hello Max,
Well, this gauge is exactly that, a "plastic" (maybe some type of
clear nylon ???) tube that conects to the bottom of the wing tank and
the cork goes inside the tank, has marks every 1/4 of the tank, the
travel is about 8". the lower part can be used as drain, just change
the blue plug.
Hope this helps
Saludos
Gary Gower
Gary:
Thanks for replying,
What I thought we were talking about, is a Dial -- a gauge like what is on a
propane farm tractor, it has a float but it operates a needle on a dial. I thought
I saw one at Brodhead last year. Maybe it was a compass or something though..
Max
Message 19
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
One of my favorite books. Highly recommended.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wind tunnel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> If you good folks can tolerate one last post from me on the more romantic
> side of this discussion, here's a little excerpt from Joshua Slocum's
> "Sailing Alone Around the World", where Slocum describes his sloop, the
> "Spray":
>
> "If I took measurements by rule I did not set them down, and after sailing
> even the longest voyage in her I could not tell offhand the length of her
> mast, boom, or gaff. I did not know the center of effort in her sails,
> except as it hit me in practice at sea, nor did I care a rope yarn about
it.
> Mathematical calculations, however, are all right in a good boat, and
the
> Spray could have stood them. She was easily balanced and easily kept in
> trim."
>
> Yes, the Piet is a grand old girl, and analysis won't hurt her a bit.
>
> do not archive
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 20
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
Mike Hardaway,
You go out and fly around and when you land, please graph out the polar for
the FC-10. That will spare us all a lot of work trying to come up with it
the best we can the more traditional way.
Oh, also, I need the chordwise lift distribution at AOA's from -4 to 19
degrees to size spars.
I will eagerly await your results.
chris bobka
Message 21
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
Well said Oscar. She's a grand dame, but still ...
Cheers, Jim (retired engr.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wind tunnel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> Bike.Mike asks-
>
> >What is it that you expect to learn by performing a wind tunnel test?
>
> Characteristic curves, man! Graphs of coefficients of lift, and
> drag! X
> and Y axes, with numbers and things! We nerdy types (I'm an
> engineer) live
> for graphs and formulae, and when we can reduce "touchy-feely" to
> numerical
> and graphical quantification, then we can dig in with glee. All
> these years
> this airfoil has been out there but it was developed by feel and
> the
> performance results are all empirical. To those of us who live in
> the
> 'what-if' world, we need graphs and numbers and analyses to slake
> our
> thirst. To those who are wondering about tweaking the airfoil
> (please don't
> kick me off the list), a starting point is needed. That starting
> point is
> the airfoil characteristics, the graphs, the plots, the numbers!
> Don't you
> see?
>
> But you knew that, Mike. You wanted to quash technical discussion
> out of
> respect for a marvelous and time-proven, grand old dame... the
> Piet and her
> enigmatic airfoil. You wanted to keep people from looking under
> her skirts,
> from lifting her veil, from seeing her without her makeup on. You
> wanted to
> protect her from "modernization", from the ugly hands of those who
> would
> Rutan-ize her and turn her into something other than what she
> really needs
> to be for all time, for us who see the design in its 75th year of
> successful
> existence, and for builders and pilots not yet even born. I know
> you, Mike!
> But cut us engineers a tiny bit of slack and let us play with
> the
> computers, will ya? It's in our blood...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ========================================================================
>
>
>
>
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