Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 03/02/04


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:05 AM - Bushings (dpaul)
     2. 05:35 AM - Re: Bushings (Gadd, Skip)
     3. 07:52 AM - Re: Bushings (John Dilatush)
     4. 08:23 AM - Piet model on ebay (Michael D Cuy)
     5. 09:49 AM - Re: Piet model on ebay (DJ Vegh)
     6. 10:45 AM - Re: Bushings (Michael D Cuy)
     7. 05:11 PM - Re: bought a GN-1 ! (DJ Vegh)
     8. 05:17 PM - Re: Bushings (Jack Phillips)
     9. 06:19 PM - Bushings (dpaul)
    10. 07:33 PM - Re: Bushings (John Dilatush)
    11. 08:50 PM - Re: bought a GN-1 ! (jimboyer@direcway.com)
    12. 10:46 PM - a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. (DJ Vegh)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:05:33 AM PST US
    From: "dpaul" <dpaul@fidnet.com>
    Subject: Bushings
    Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:35:43 AM PST US
    From: "Gadd, Skip" <Skip.Gadd@ssa.gov>
    Subject: Bushings
    Dave, I used bronze bushings, got them 1 1/4 ID and 1 1/2 OD, just had to cut to length. If you are talking about turned aluminum hubs, I assume 7075, $275.00 sounds about right, based on how long it took me to make mine. Another option is welded 4130 tube with 3 flanges (if you want breaks, 2 if you don't) welded on and 2 of them drilled for the spokes. Should be a whole lot cheaper than aluminum. Skip Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? Thanks....Dave in Missouri Message <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dave, I used bronze bushings, got them 1 1/4 ID and 1 1/2 OD, just had to cut to length. If you are talking about turned aluminum hubs, I assume 7075, $275.00 sounds about right, based on how long it took me to make mine. <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Another option is welded 4130 tube with 3 flanges (if you want breaks, 2 if you don't)welded on and 2 of them drilled for the spokes.Should be a whole lot cheaper than aluminum. <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Skip Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used?<FONT size=2> Thanks....Dave in Missouri


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:52:30 AM PST US
    From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
    Subject: Re: Bushings
    ----- Original Message ----- From: dpaul To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bushings Dave, I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no side loading except with a side car. To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast. I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will be perfect and on perfect terrain.. John Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:23:10 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Piet model on ebay
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3178224997&category=30


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:49:55 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: Piet model on ebay
    Y29vbCEgIHRoYXQncyBhYm91dCB0aGUgc2FtZSBzaXplIG1pbmUgaXMuICAgSSd2ZSBiZWVuIGZs eWluZyBtaW5lIGFsb3QgaW4gdGhlIHBhc3QgZmV3IHdlZWtzLiAgSSBwdXQgYSBuZXcgbW90b3Iv cmVkcml2ZSBpbiBpdCB3aGljaCB0dXJucyBhIGxhcmdlciBsb3cgcGl0Y2ggcHJvcC4gIEZsaWVz IGJldHRlciBub3cuICBNeSBmYXZvcml0ZSB0aGluZyB0byBkbyB3aXRoIGl0IGlzIGNvbWUgaW4g b24gYSB0dXJuaW5nIGZpbmFsIGFwcHJvYWNoIHJlYWwgaGlnaCBhbmQgdGhlbiBoaXQgZnVsbCBy dWRkZXIgYW5kIG9wcG9zaXRlIGFpbGVyb24gYW5kIHdhdGNoIGl0IHNsaXAgZG93bi4gIFNsaXBz IGdyZWF0IQ0KDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2Fp cmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQogIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZy b206IE1pY2hhZWwgRCBDdXkgDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0K ICBTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAwMiwgMjAwNCA5OjIyIEFNDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRl bnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQaWV0IG1vZGVsIG9uIGViYXkNCg0KDQogIGh0dHA6Ly9jZ2kuZWJheS5jb20v d3MvZUJheUlTQVBJLmRsbD9WaWV3SXRlbSZpdGVtPTMxNzgyMjQ5OTcmY2F0ZWdvcnk9MzANCiAg IA0K


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:45:48 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Re: Bushings
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Hello Dave-- I got my oilite bronze, flanged bushings from Bearing Distributors. Check this site for a retailer near you. http://www.bdi-usa.com/ I had to machine my axle a tad for the bushings to slip over--you may not have to. The trick is not to have your bushing turn inside the hub so I did as Frank P. did and cleaned my bushings and hub insides with MEK. I filed three grooves perpendicular to the direction they slide on, applied T-88 around the 1" wide part that slips in your hubs and let it cure. I used regular auto grease to lube them. Nuther thing a place like Bearing Distributors can sell you are washers for your axle. I didn't want those bushings rubbing on the hex shaped axle nut so I bought the appropriate size steel washers. On the axel itself I welded a washer on the inside of where I wanted the hub to slide on and stop. I then ground it down to a smaller size (not necessary but I needed to to clear my go kart brake calipers) This serves as a stop on the inboard side for your hubs. Hope this helps, Mike C


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:11:51 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> well I took delivery of the new plane today. I even took some time to temporarily mount up one wing to my fuse and snap some pics. here's pics of the wings http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04.htm and here's pics of the fuse, which by the way is for sale :-) http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04b.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper -


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:17:54 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Bushings
    Hi Dave, I agree with John - all it takes is one really bad landing and if a wheel folds you might tear up the whole airplane (much less hurting yourself). I had a machine shop turn my 6" wide hubs for me - cost me $400 for the pair with me supplying the aluminum. I just got them back from Buchanan's all laced up with brand new stainless steel spokes - they sort of make me forget how much they cost me. I wish now I had polished the aluminum hubs before I sent them off. Mine are designed for a 1-1/2" axle, and I used some Timken roller bearings salvaged from a set of Goodyear aircraft wheels. BTW, the source I used for my aluminum was a company called Yarde Metals. They have a "Drop Zone" where they sell remnants and cutoffs from jobs. I got a billet of 6061 T651 aluminum 10" in diameter and 17" long for about $150. Their website is: http://www.yarde.com/cgi-bin/dropzone.pl Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- Dave, I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no side loading except with a side car. To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast. I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will be perfect and on perfect terrain.. John ================================== Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:19:41 PM PST US
    From: "dpaul" <dpaul@fidnet.com>
    Subject: Bushings
    Dear List, Thanks for all the advise concerning wheel hubs. There were a lot of truly helpful suggestions! The list is an invaluable help. Have you seen the new Sport Aviation Magazine? There is yet another article about the Pietenpol and a very luckly young pilot. Dave in Missouri Do Not Archive


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:33:08 PM PST US
    From: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
    Subject: Re: Bushings
    ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bushings Them's one beautiful wheels! John Hi Dave, I agree with John - all it takes is one really bad landing and if a wheel folds you might tear up the whole airplane (much less hurting yourself). I had a machine shop turn my 6" wide hubs for me - cost me $400 for the pair with me supplying the aluminum. I just got them back from Buchanan's all laced up with brand new stainless steel spokes - they sort of make me forget how much they cost me. I wish now I had polished the aluminum hubs before I sent them off. Mine are designed for a 1-1/2" axle, and I used some Timken roller bearings salvaged from a set of Goodyear aircraft wheels. BTW, the source I used for my aluminum was a company called Yarde Metals. They have a "Drop Zone" where they sell remnants and cutoffs from jobs. I got a billet of 6061 T651 aluminum 10" in diameter and 17" long for about $150. Their website is: http://www.yarde.com/cgi-bin/dropzone.pl Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- Dave, I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no side loading except with a side car. To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast. I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will be perfect and on perfect terrain.. John Dear List, Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle. I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do. Thanks....Dave in Missouri


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:50:14 PM PST US
    From: jimboyer@direcway.com
    Subject: Re: bought a GN-1 !
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com Hey DJ, Your Piet is looking good. The wings look good and I like your engine mount on yours as well. Thanks for the great photos. They will help me in making my own engine mount fittings and landing gear. What a find DJ; good going. Cheers, Jim Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bought a GN-1 ! > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> > > well I took delivery of the new plane today. I even took some > time to > temporarily mount up one wing to my fuse and snap some pics. > > here's pics of the wings > http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04.htm > > > and here's pics of the fuse, which by the way is for sale :-) > http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04b.htm > > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > - > > > > > > _- > _- > _- > _- > ======================================================================== > > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:46:40 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread
    pull-out force. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the equations make my brain hurt. Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork (1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx 70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the aluminum and pull out the fork? My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even 5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded and you become a lawn dart. Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar) Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue? Opinions!? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper -




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