Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Bushings (dpaul)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: Bushings (Gadd, Skip)
3. 07:52 AM - Re: Bushings (John Dilatush)
4. 08:23 AM - Piet model on ebay (Michael D Cuy)
5. 09:49 AM - Re: Piet model on ebay (DJ Vegh)
6. 10:45 AM - Re: Bushings (Michael D Cuy)
7. 05:11 PM - Re: bought a GN-1 ! (DJ Vegh)
8. 05:17 PM - Re: Bushings (Jack Phillips)
9. 06:19 PM - Bushings (dpaul)
10. 07:33 PM - Re: Bushings (John Dilatush)
11. 08:50 PM - Re: bought a GN-1 ! (jimboyer@direcway.com)
12. 10:46 PM - a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. (DJ Vegh)
Message 1
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Dear List,
Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings
they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and others
that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough
to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle.
I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel.
That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary
to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong
and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I can
just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do.
Thanks....Dave in Missouri
Message 2
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Dave,
I used bronze bushings, got them 1 1/4 ID and 1 1/2 OD, just had to cut to
length.
If you are talking about turned aluminum hubs, I assume 7075, $275.00 sounds
about right, based on how long it took me to make mine.
Another option is welded 4130 tube with 3 flanges (if you want breaks, 2 if
you don't) welded on and 2 of them drilled for the spokes. Should be a whole
lot cheaper than aluminum.
Skip
Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of
bushings they used?
Thanks....Dave in Missouri
Message
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dave,
I used
bronze bushings, got them 1 1/4 ID and 1 1/2 OD, just had to cut to
length.
If you
are talking about turned aluminum hubs, I assume 7075, $275.00 sounds about
right, based on how long it took me to make mine.
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Another option is welded 4130 tube with 3 flanges (if you want breaks, 2
if you don't)welded on and 2 of them drilled for the spokes.Should
be a whole lot cheaper than aluminum.
<FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Skip
Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel
option tell me what kind of bushings they used?<FONT
size=2>
Thanks....Dave in
Missouri
Message 3
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----- Original Message -----
From: dpaul
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bushings
Dave,
I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing
when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is no
side loading except with a side car.
To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that
each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been
pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise.
In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels
have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6"
hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast.
I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will
be perfect and on perfect terrain..
John
Dear List,
Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings
they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and
others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough
to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle.
I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel.
That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary
to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong
and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I
can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do.
Thanks....Dave in Missouri
Message 4
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Subject: | Piet model on ebay |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3178224997&category=30
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Piet model on ebay |
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d3MvZUJheUlTQVBJLmRsbD9WaWV3SXRlbSZpdGVtPTMxNzgyMjQ5OTcmY2F0ZWdvcnk9MzANCiAg
IA0K
Message 6
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Hello Dave-- I got my oilite bronze, flanged bushings from Bearing
Distributors. Check this site for a retailer near you.
http://www.bdi-usa.com/ I had to machine my axle a tad for the bushings
to slip over--you may not have to. The trick is not to have your bushing
turn inside the hub so I did as Frank P. did and cleaned my bushings and
hub insides with MEK. I filed three grooves perpendicular to the direction
they slide on, applied T-88 around the 1" wide part that slips in your hubs
and let it cure. I used regular auto grease to lube them. Nuther thing a
place like Bearing Distributors can sell you are washers for your axle. I
didn't want those bushings rubbing on the hex shaped axle nut so I bought
the appropriate size steel washers.
On the axel itself I welded a washer on the inside of where I wanted the
hub to slide on and stop. I then ground it down to a smaller size (not
necessary but I needed to to clear my go kart brake calipers) This serves
as a stop on the inboard side for your hubs. Hope this helps,
Mike C
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: bought a GN-1 ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
well I took delivery of the new plane today. I even took some time to
temporarily mount up one wing to my fuse and snap some pics.
here's pics of the wings
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04.htm
and here's pics of the fuse, which by the way is for sale :-)
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04b.htm
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
Message 8
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Hi Dave,
I agree with John - all it takes is one really bad landing and if a wheel
folds you might tear up the whole airplane (much less hurting yourself). I
had a machine shop turn my 6" wide hubs for me - cost me $400 for the pair
with me supplying the aluminum. I just got them back from Buchanan's all
laced up with brand new stainless steel spokes - they sort of make me forget
how much they cost me. I wish now I had polished the aluminum hubs before I
sent them off.
Mine are designed for a 1-1/2" axle, and I used some Timken roller bearings
salvaged from a set of Goodyear aircraft wheels.
BTW, the source I used for my aluminum was a company called Yarde Metals.
They have a "Drop Zone" where they sell remnants and cutoffs from jobs. I
got a billet of 6061 T651 aluminum 10" in diameter and 17" long for about
$150. Their website is: http://www.yarde.com/cgi-bin/dropzone.pl
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Dave,
I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs
collapsing when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle,
there is no side loading except with a side car.
To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance
that each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings
have been pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly
crosswise. In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory
and the wheels have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had
not made the 6" hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast.
I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings
will be perfect and on perfect terrain..
John
==================================
Dear List,
Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of
bushings they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's
aircraft and others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the
hubs are fat enough to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2"
axle.
I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants
$275.00/wheel. That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely
necessary to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem
really strong and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have
holes where I can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I
have to do.
Thanks....Dave in Missouri
Message 9
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Dear List,
Thanks for all the advise concerning wheel hubs. There were a lot of truly
helpful suggestions! The list is an invaluable help.
Have you seen the new Sport Aviation Magazine? There is yet another article
about the Pietenpol and a very luckly young pilot.
Dave in Missouri
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bushings
Them's one beautiful wheels!
John
Hi Dave,
I agree with John - all it takes is one really bad landing and if a wheel folds
you might tear up the whole airplane (much less hurting yourself). I had a
machine shop turn my 6" wide hubs for me - cost me $400 for the pair with me
supplying the aluminum. I just got them back from Buchanan's all laced up with
brand new stainless steel spokes - they sort of make me forget how much they
cost me. I wish now I had polished the aluminum hubs before I sent them off.
Mine are designed for a 1-1/2" axle, and I used some Timken roller bearings salvaged
from a set of Goodyear aircraft wheels.
BTW, the source I used for my aluminum was a company called Yarde Metals. They have a "Drop Zone" where they sell remnants and cutoffs from jobs. I got a billet of 6061 T651 aluminum 10" in diameter and 17" long for about $150. Their website is: http://www.yarde.com/cgi-bin/dropzone.pl
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
Dave,
I have heard too many stories about stock motorcycle wheels and hubs collapsing
when subjected to a heavy side load. Remember, on a motorcycle, there is
no side loading except with a side car.
To be on the safe side, and from experience, I wouldn't take the chance that
each landing will be without some side loading. Some of my landings have been
pretty bad. In fact, not many have been without landing slightly crosswise.
In addition, some landings have been in pretty rough territory and the wheels
have taken quite a beating. Each time I think that if I had not made the 6"
hubs and a wheel collapsed, the plane could have been toast.
I think it's too much to risk on the assumption that all of your landings will
be perfect and on perfect terrain..
John
Dear List,
Can anyone who has used the spoked wheel option tell me what kind of bushings
they used? I've been looking at the photos of Michael Cuy's aircraft and
others that I took at Brodhead and it doesn't appear that the hubs are fat enough
to have used regular sealed bearings over the 1 1/2" axle.
I've found a machinist who will make those six inch hubs but he wants $275.00/wheel.
That seems pretty high to me. Is it really, absolutely necessary
to have those wide hubs? I've found some nice wheels that seem really strong
and it seems like a shame to take them apart. They even have holes where I
can just bolt on a disk for the brake. But I'll do what I have to do.
Thanks....Dave in Missouri
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: bought a GN-1 ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
Hey DJ,
Your Piet is looking good. The wings look good and I like your engine mount on
yours as well. Thanks for the great photos. They will help me in making my own
engine mount fittings and landing gear.
What a find DJ; good going. Cheers, Jim
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bought a GN-1 !
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> well I took delivery of the new plane today. I even took some
> time to
> temporarily mount up one wing to my fuse and snap some pics.
>
> here's pics of the wings
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04.htm
>
>
> and here's pics of the fuse, which by the way is for sale :-)
> http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-02-04b.htm
>
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ========================================================================
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread |
pull-out force.
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the
equations make my brain hurt.
Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork
(1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx
70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the
aluminum and pull out the fork?
My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even
5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb
in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but
guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded
and you become a lawn dart.
Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or
even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to
thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar)
Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue?
Opinions!?
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
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