---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/03/04: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:19 AM - Re: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. (Jack Phillips) 2. 04:50 AM - Wire Spoke Wheels (James Dallas) 3. 06:35 AM - Re: Axle (horzpool@goldengate.net) 4. 06:57 AM - Re: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread (Robert Haines) 5. 07:18 AM - Great photos of Jan '04 CA Corvair College (Michael D Cuy) 6. 07:47 AM - Re: Great photos of Jan '04 CA Corvair College (Ed Grentzer) 7. 10:24 AM - Fw: Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series Sets 2004 Events (Isablcorky@aol.com) 8. 03:53 PM - Re: Wire Spoke Wheels (Jack Phillips) 9. 05:47 PM - Re: Wire Spoke Wheels (James Dallas) 10. 07:37 PM - Re: Wire Spoke Wheels (hjarrett) 11. 08:14 PM - [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:14 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Hi DJ, You need a little more information - specifically, how many threads will you have engaged? Threaded holes typically fail by shearing across the thread roots, so you will need to calculate the area of the thread roots, multiplied by the number of threads engaged, multiplied by a healthy safety factor. 7075 is not too bad for fatigue (for aluminum), but with cut threads you will have some significant stress risers. Personally, I would try to have a factor of safety of at least 5. If the Lift struts let go, you will have a very bad day. Given a choice between aluminum and steel for such a part, I would go with steel due to its increased fatigue resistance, unless you have a large safety margin. What about corrosion? What will this block be attached to? Steel or aluminum lift struts? If steel struts, then definitely make this block of steel to avoid dis-similar metals setting up galvanic corrosion. If aluminum then I would lean towards an aluminum block, preferably with a barrier of oil on the steel threads of the strut fork to avoid corrosion. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the equations make my brain hurt. Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork (1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx 70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the aluminum and pull out the fork? My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even 5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded and you become a lawn dart. Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar) Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue? Opinions!? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:34 AM PST US From: "James Dallas" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 06:50:53 -0600 Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:38 AM PST US From: horzpool@goldengate.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axle --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: horzpool@goldengate.net Cliff I am in taxi testing now and the axle seems fine so far. Lots of others have used it too. Dick Quoting Clif Dawson : > All the plans I've got specify 1 1/2" tubing. > That's the 1932 Fly+Glide Piet, 1933 F+G > Scout split axle and my plans from Don > Pietenpol. > Where's this reference to 1 1/4"? My copies > came from EAA 10 years ago. Did they > make a change somewhere along the line? > > So, Richard, I assume your 1 1/4" is holding > up fine? I would rather use that if it does. I > could make it fit my wheels more easily. > > Clif > > Dave, > The Flying and glider plans call out 1 1/4 X 12 GA. Chrome-Molybdenum for > the axle. 12 GA. is .1045" thick, I think most guys go up to .120" rather > than down to .095". > 1 1/8 X .083" does sound a little light and flimsy. > Mine is split axle and I chose 1 1/4 X .120". > Skip > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:39 AM PST US From: "Robert Haines" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Haines" DJ, Jack is correct in saying that it's based on the thread failure. However, and this may not answer you question directly, the height of a basic nut has been determined so that failure based on the area of threads is greater than the failure based on the cross-section of the bolt. This is not a absoulte engineering solution, but it helps one visualize the strength of the threads compaired to the strenght of the body of the bolt. To determine failure, you have to figure the problem three ways: 1) will the threads shear off of the threaded rod, 2) will the threads shear off of the threaded hole, or 3) will the rod fail in tension at it's smallest diameter (which is likely the minor diameter of the rod's threads). Try looking at pages 1490 from the Machinery's Handbook (I have edition 26) which has all the formulas for this and specifically has formulas for when the material of the threaded hole is weaker than the threaded rod. Robert Haines Du Quoin, Illinois Time: 10:46:40 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: a question for the engineer types - 7075 aluminum thread pull-out force. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Done lots of reading online about thread pull-out force in aluminum but the equations make my brain hurt. Basically what I'd like to know it if I have a Piper Cub lift strut fork (1/2" - 13 thread I think) threaded into a 7075 aluminum block (approx 70kpsi shear) about 1", what would it take to fail the threads in the aluminum and pull out the fork? My initial guestimate would say it would take at least 12,000lb..... Even 5,000lb would do as some rough math shows each lift strut sees about 1400lb in a 4G load. Even with a safety factor of 3 that's only 4200lb..... but guestimates and probably's don't do much for you when your wing has folded and you become a lawn dart. Who's got some engineering skills that could give me a more solid number or even an opinion on whether I should use 7075 aluminum or 1018 steel block to thread this fork into. (I can't seem to find 4130 in .75 and 1" square bar) Maybe 7075 is a bad choice because of fatigue? Opinions!? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:28 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Great photos of Jan '04 CA Corvair College Forgive me if this site has already been posted but it is just fantastic: http://www.flycorvair.com/cc5.html Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:14 AM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Great photos of Jan '04 CA Corvair College --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Great shots Mike...Thanks for sharing them....Do not archive >From: Michael D Cuy >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Great photos of Jan '04 CA Corvair College >Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:18:18 -0500 > >Forgive me if this site has already been posted but it is just fantastic: > > http://www.flycorvair.com/cc5.html > >Mike C. > > Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:47 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series Sets 2004 Events Thought some of you may have an interest in the following announcement. If you want to pass a good time, try these out. Corky in La Do Not Archive n a message dated 3/3/2004 12:04:25 PM Central Standard Time, ttoelle@eaa.org writes: Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series Sets 2004 Events In order to appropriately celebrate the Centennial of Flight in 2003 throughout Louisiana, several Louisiana EAA Chapters decided to create a Louisiana Centennial of Flight Fly-in Series. It was actually a revival of a series that was held for several years in the late 80's and early 90's. Our goals were to raise aviation awareness of the general public and increase aviation activity, which of course are both beneficial to all of us involved in aviation. The fly-in series was very successful and exceeded our expectations. Several events had over 150 aircraft participating. Therefore we have decided to hold another fly-in series in 2004. Here are the details.... Series Events: The series will begin on March 20th at the Shreveport Downtown Airport. Here is a list of all 12 events that are currently scheduled: March 20 Chapter 343 Fly-in - Shreveport Downtown March 27-28 Chapter 697 Air Show and Fly-in - Slidell April 23-24 Chapter 614 Spring Fly-in - Pineville May 1 Chapter 614 Alexandria International Airport Fly-in May 22 Chapter 912 Fly-in - Vidalia June 18-19 Chapter 614 Paragon Festival of Flight - Marksville September 11 Chapter 836 Fly-in - Monroe September 18 Chapter 343 Air Show and Fly-in - Shreveport Downtown October 9 Chapter 513 Fly-in - Houma October 15-16 Chapter 614 Fall Fly-in - Pineville November 6 Chapter 971 Fall Fly-in - Reserve November 13 Chapter 261 Annual Fly-in - New Orleans Lakefront Activities at Each Fly-in: While these events are being organized and sponsored by individual EAA chapters, we are encouraging participation from every organization involved in aviation in the state - FAA, 99's, CAP, Military, Ag Operators, Louisiana DOTD, Flight Schools, Commercial Operators, IAC, etc. Most fly-ins will have Young Eagles flights. Watch for additional details, as the dates of the events get closer. Fly-in Series Prizes: We want to encourage participation by every aircraft in the state. To help provide that encouragement, we are requesting prizes from aviation-related and other companies to present to series participants. We want to thank our 2003 Sponsors for their generous support: Pride Aviation, Brignac Aviation, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co., Rans Aircraft, Van's Aircraft, Angel Flight, EAA, Lancair and Exxon Elite Aviation Oil. We gave out over 30 prizes to series participants last year. Pride Aviation, EAA. Lancair and Rans Aircraft have already committed to continue their sponsorship for the 2004 series. We have new sponsorship commitments from Trade-A-Plane, Oregon Aero, Concorde Batteries and a new exciting prize from Darryl Christen in Houma - a ride in his Giles aerobatic aircraft or his L-39 Albatross jet. Please contact the Series Coordinator below if you wish to be a 2004 Sponsor. We will hold the top six to eight prizes until the end of the series (For example, we will be holding Pride Aviation's four prizes of 50 gallons of Avgas, the jet ride, and the aircraft battery as six of those prizes). At that time, we will give any individual(s) that flew to all of the events one pick from those top awards. Then we will do the same thing again for those that flew to all but one, etc. until the top prizes are gone. This way our most faithful participants will be rewarded for their consistent attendance. Pilots that fly an aircraft to an event need to make sure that they register to record their attendance. As for the remaining smaller prizes, we will award them throughout the year by random drawings at 2:00 PM on the day of the fly-ins where the winner must be present. Anyone who attends the event, both those that fly in or drive in, can fill out an entry blank at the event that would be used for that drawing. Official Communication Site: We are using the Propclear website as our official information and communication site for the Fly-in series. This is where you will find the additional details for very event. Please check the calendar and the discussion board routinely. Here is the address... http://www.propclear.com/ Spread the word to everyone involved in aviation! Place all of these events on your calendar. We need to gather the Louisiana aviation community and those from surrounding states to show the non-flying public how much fun and beneficial aviation really is - and to have fun while we are doing it. We are looking forward to seeing you at every event. For further information, please contact the series coordinator below: James "Jim" Riviere, Jr. 520 North Magnolia Gramercy, LA 70052 225-869-3481 (Home) 985-859-6480 (Cell) rivierja@cox.net Subject: Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series Sets 2004 Events From: "Troy Toelle" Louisiana EAA Fly-in Series Sets 2004 Events In order to appropriately celebrate the Centennial of Flight in 2003 throughout Louisiana, several Louisiana EAA Chapters decided to create a Louisiana Centennial of Flight Fly-in Series. It was actually a revival of a series that was held for several years in the late 80's and early 90's. Our goals were to raise aviation awareness of the general public and increase aviation activity, which of course are both beneficial to all of us involved in aviation. The fly-in series was very successful and exceeded our expectations. Several events had over 150 aircraft participating. Therefore we have decided to hold another fly-in series in 2004. Here are the details.... Series Events: The series will begin on March 20th at the Shreveport Downtown Airport. Here is a list of all 12 events that are currently scheduled: March 20 Chapter 343 Fly-in - Shreveport Downtown March 27-28 Chapter 697 Air Show and Fly-in - Slidell April 23-24 Chapter 614 Spring Fly-in - Pineville May 1 Chapter 614 Alexandria International Airport Fly-in May 22 Chapter 912 Fly-in - Vidalia June 18-19 Chapter 614 Paragon Festival of Flight - Marksville September 11 Chapter 836 Fly-in - Monroe September 18 Chapter 343 Air Show and Fly-in - Shreveport Downtown October 9 Chapter 513 Fly-in - Houma October 15-16 Chapter 614 Fall Fly-in - Pineville November 6 Chapter 971 Fall Fly-in - Reserve November 13 Chapter 261 Annual Fly-in - New Orleans Lakefront Activities at Each Fly-in: While these events are being organized and sponsored by individual EAA chapters, we are encouraging participation from every organization involved in aviation in the state - FAA, 99's, CAP, Military, Ag Operators, Louisiana DOTD, Flight Schools, Commercial Operators, IAC, etc. Most fly-ins will have Young Eagles flights. Watch for additional details, as the dates of the events get closer. Fly-in Series Prizes: We want to encourage participation by every aircraft in the state. To help provide that encouragement, we are requesting prizes from aviation-related and other companies to present to series participants. We want to thank our 2003 Sponsors for their generous support: Pride Aviation, Brignac Aviation, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co., Rans Aircraft, Van's Aircraft, Angel Flight, EAA, Lancair and Exxon Elite Aviation Oil. We gave out over 30 prizes to series participants last year. Pride Aviation, EAA. Lancair and Rans Aircraft have already committed to continue their sponsorship for the 2004 series. We have new sponsorship commitments from Trade-A-Plane, Oregon Aero, Concorde Batteries and a new exciting prize from Darryl Christen in Houma - a ride in his Giles aerobatic aircraft or his L-39 Albatross jet. Please contact the Series Coordinator below if you wish to be a 2004 Sponsor. We will hold the top six to eight prizes until the end of the series (For example, we will be holding Pride Aviation's four prizes of 50 gallons of Avgas, the jet ride, and the aircraft battery as six of those prizes). At that time, we will give any individual(s) that flew to all of the events one pick from those top awards. Then we will do the same thing again for those that flew to all but one, etc. until the top prizes are gone. This way our most faithful participants will be rewarded for their consistent attendance. Pilots that fly an aircraft to an event need to make sure that they register to record their attendance. As for the remaining smaller prizes, we will award them throughout the year by random drawings at 2:00 PM on the day of the fly-ins where the winner must be present. Anyone who attends the event, both those that fly in or drive in, can fill out an entry blank at the event that would be used for that drawing. Official Communication Site: We are using the Propclear website as our official information and communication site for the Fly-in series. This is where you will find the additional details for very event. Please check the calendar and the discussion board routinely. Here is the address... http://www.propclear.com/ Spread the word to everyone involved in aviation! Place all of these events on your calendar. We need to gather the Louisiana aviation community and those from surrounding states to show the non-flying public how much fun and beneficial aviation really is - and to have fun while we are doing it. We are looking forward to seeing you at every event. For further information, please contact the series coordinator below: James "Jim" Riviere, Jr. 520 North Magnolia Gramercy, LA 70052 225-869-3481 (Home) 985-859-6480 (Cell) rivierja@cox.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:33 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. Yes the flanges are different on the inside and outside, in order to allow installation of Cleveland 8" disc brakes. I have drawings of the hubs on AutoCAD if you are interested. The hubs were turned by Leland Machine Shop in Wilmington, NC. Billy Johnson, the owner of the shop, has built several airplanes and I think gave me a special price because of that. The wheels without tires or brakes weigh 16.5 lbs each. Heavier than I would have thought, but not a lot heavier than the Goodyears I got the bearings from. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Dallas Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:01 PM PST US From: "James Dallas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:47:10 -0600 Jack, Thanks for the answers, and yes I would love to get a copy of the drawing. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. Yes the flanges are different on the inside and outside, in order to allow installation of Cleveland 8" disc brakes. I have drawings of the hubs on AutoCAD if you are interested. The hubs were turned by Leland Machine Shop in Wilmington, NC. Billy Johnson, the owner of the shop, has built several airplanes and I think gave me a special price because of that. The wheels without tires or brakes weigh 16.5 lbs each. Heavier than I would have thought, but not a lot heavier than the Goodyears I got the bearings from. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Dallas Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: pietenpol-list Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:01 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Is there a site you could post your drawings? I'll be honest, I want to steal them just like the rest of the guys. Hank (steal from the best, the rest ain't worth the trouble) J ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Hi Jim, Thanks for the compliment. Yes the flanges are different on the inside and outside, in order to allow installation of Cleveland 8" disc brakes. I have drawings of the hubs on AutoCAD if you are interested. The hubs were turned by Leland Machine Shop in Wilmington, NC. Billy Johnson, the owner of the shop, has built several airplanes and I think gave me a special price because of that. The wheels without tires or brakes weigh 16.5 lbs each. Heavier than I would have thought, but not a lot heavier than the Goodyears I got the bearings from. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Dallas Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: pietenpol-list Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Spoke Wheels Jack, Those wheels look great!!!!!!!! Now for a couple of questions........I noticed that the flange on one side appears to be a different size than the other. Is there a reason for this or do I need to re-calibrate my eyes? What are you going to use for brakes? Do you have any drawings of the hubs? What shop turned them for you? Jim Dallas ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:26 PM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) DNA: not not archive Subject: Pietenpol-List: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) Dear Listers, First let me say that I normally don't condone the sharing of warnings about Internet viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. I don't want to start a storm of discussion regarding computer viruses on the Lists, so please just note the information below and refrain from commenting to the List. The circumstances I describe below are disturbing enough that I felt an explanation is necessary. That being said... There is a new email-bourne virus running rampant on the Internet that is cleverly disguising itself as legitimate email warning of such things as: "your email account is disabled because of unauthorized access" "Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail content) outgoing from your e-mail account" "Probably, you have been infected by a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe, follow the instructions." "Our main mailing server will be temporary unavailable for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service." All of these messages include an attachment that you are instructed to click upon to "Get more information", "clean the virus from your system", or "check your system for infections". These enclosures all contain a virus that will infect your system and propagate even more copies of the original message. The disturbing part of these messages is that they appear to be coming from very legitimate addresses and have very legitimate, convincing dialog. For example, I have received a number of them today that appear to be from "support@matronics.com", "management@matronics.com", "administration@matronics.com", and "staff@matronics.com". The text of the messages seems believable enough, and given the forged source address, seem even more legitimate. Please be assured that no one at Matronics.com will be sending you these kinds of messages. If you receive one, it is a spam/virus that has forged headers and was sent to you from someone other than Matronics. Delete the message and the attachment promptly. Invest in a copy of Norton Antivirus and keep the definitions up dated on a daily basis. Again, I want to stress that I *DO NOT* want a big discussion of viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. Please do not reply to this email with any comments. You may write to me directly at dralle@matronics.com if you wish, but do not include the List. Since many of these appear to come from matronics.com, I wanted to assure everyone that Matronics wasn't the real source of these messages. Let's be careful out there and keep those virus definitions up to date! Today alone, the Matronics spam filter and virus blocking appliance has filtered out 11,550 spam messages and 375 viruses! That's just in an 18 hour period! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft