Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 03/07/04


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:43 AM - Subject: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem (rhartwig11@juno.com)
     2. 05:25 AM - Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem (Andimaxd@aol.com)
     3. 07:30 AM - Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem (Christian Bobka)
     4. 12:05 PM - Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
     5. 04:57 PM - tail wheel springs/chains (DJ Vegh)
     6. 07:24 PM - Re: tail wheel springs/chains (Catdesign)
     7. 07:52 PM - Re: tail wheel springs/chains (Rcaprd@aol.com)
     8. 08:55 PM - Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem (Christian Bobka)
     9. 09:10 PM - Re: tail wheel springs/chains (DJ Vegh)
    10. 09:14 PM - Re: tail wheel springs/chains (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    11. 09:48 PM - Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem (Christian Bobka)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:43:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
    From: rhartwig11@juno.com
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com I guess I'm back to using Bill Rewey's idea--a Cub type float-and-wire on the gas cap and a mirror that I can hold up to see it. Dick Hartwig >Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel >gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The >bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass >quality...


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:25:55 AM PST US
    From: Andimaxd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
    In a message dated 3/6/2004 10:10:55 PM Central Standard Time, wbeevans@verizon.net writes: > Max, > Did they know it was for an airplane? Maybe thats where they got cold > feet. Something for a plane sends up red liability flags. > walt evans > NX140DL > Hi Walt: No, I maintained that it was for an "off road" vehicle (way off the road) with an overhead fuel tank, all the way through to the bitter end! I already had concerns about that. Max Do not archive


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:30:59 AM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
    Max, You are great. Chris Bobka do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX.


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:05:50 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
    Thats too bad. It sounds like someone there got wind that this product might actually save a life sometime....and then started thinking about the "what if it doesn't" scenario and got scared off of it. So rather than promoting safety, its getting squashed. This liability issue with airplanes is so screwed up in our sue-greedy world...... it just makes me sick sometimes. Terry B DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:57:10 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: tail wheel springs/chains
    Q291bGQgc29tZSBvZiB5b3Ugc2VuZCBtZSBzb21lIHBpY3Mgb3IgbGlua3MgdG8gcGljcyBvZiB5 b3VyIHRhaWwgd2hlZWwgY29udHJvbCBjb25uZWN0aW9ucz8gDQoNCkknbSBub3QgdG90YWxseSBw bGVhc2VkIHdpdGggdGhlIEdOLTEncyBtZXRob2Qgb2YgdGFpbCB3aGVlbCBjb250cm9sLiBJdCBz YXlzIHRvIHVzZSBzb21lIC4wOTAgc3RlZWwgYXJtcyBib2x0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHJ1ZGRlciBhbmQg dGhlbiBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHRhaWx3aGVlbCB2aWEgc3ByaW5ncyBhbmQgY2hhaW5zLiAg IFRoZSBhbmdsZSBpcyBzdGVlcCB1cCB0byB0aGUgbWV0YWwgYXJtcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0YWlsIHdo ZWVsLiAgSSB0cmllZCBhICJ0YXhpIiB0ZXN0IHRvZGF5IGluIHdoaWNoIG15IGdpcmxmcmllbmQg cHVsbGVkIHRoZSBwbGFuZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgbW91bnQgd2hpbGUgSSBzdGVlcmVkIGZy b20gdGhlIGNvY2twaXQuICBXaXRoaW4gNSBzZWNvbmRzIEkgbWFuYWdlZCB0byBiZW5kIGRvd24g b25lIG9mIHRoZSBhcm1zLiAgVGhlIGFuZ2xlIGlzIGp1c3QgdG9vIG11Y2ggYW5kIGFueSBnb29k IGFtb3VudCBvZiBwZWRhbCBmb3JjZSBqdXN0IGJlbmRzIHRoZSBhcm0gZG93bi4NCg0KSSdkIGxp a2UgdG8gc2VlIGhvdyB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB5b3UgYXJlIGRvaW5nIGl0LiBJIHdhcyB0aGlua2lu ZyBvZiBkaXRjaGluZyB0aGUgcnVkZGVyIGFybSB0aGluZyBhbmQganVzdCBydW5uaW5nIHNlcGFy YXRlIGNhYmxlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0YWlsd2hlZWwgZGlyZWN0bHkgdG8gdGhlIHJ1ZGRlciBjYWJs ZXMgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBmdXNlLi4uIHRoZW4gdGhlIHBlZGFscyBkaXJlY3RseSBjb250cm9sIHRo ZSB0YWlsd2hlZWwNCg0KV2hhdCBhYm91dCB5b3UgTWlrZSBDLiA/ICBob3cgaXMgeW91cnMgZG9u ZT8NCg0KREogVmVnaA0KTjc0RFYNCk1lc2EsIEFaDQp3d3cuaW1hZ2Vkdi5jb20vYWlyY2FtcGVy DQoNCg0KDQotDQo


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:24:01 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
    ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail wheel springs/chains Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel control connections? I'm not totally pleased with the GN-1's method of tail wheel control. It says to use some .090 steel arms bolted to the rudder and then connected to the tailwheel via springs and chains. The angle is steep up to the metal arms from the tail wheel. I tried a "taxi" test today in which my girlfriend pulled the plane from the engine mount while I steered from the cockpit. Within 5 seconds I managed to bend down one of the arms. The angle is just too much and any good amount of pedal force just bends the arm down. I'd like to see how the rest of you are doing it. I was thinking of ditching the rudder arm thing and just running separate cables from the tailwheel directly to the rudder cables inside the fuse... then the pedals directly control the tailwheel What about you Mike C. ? how is yours done? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper -


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:52:10 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 3/7/04 6:57:38 PM Central Standard Time, djv@imagedv.com writes: << Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel control connections? >> DJ, I don't like the thought of tailwheel nicopress on primary flight control cables, so the way I did my cables, was to nicopress the cable / thimble right to the springs, and installed the springs through the holes in the tailwheel horn, and run the 1/16" cable all the way up to the rudder bar. The springs are lightweight type, that when you pull the ends, it compresses (as opposed to stretching) the spring. I don't recall what you call that type of spring. The cables penetrate the fabric on the bottom of the fuselage, pass through a hole in a hardwood fairlead block (epoxied in at the station just ahead of the tailpost) and almost a straight line up to through the rear cockpit. I ran them through 24" lengths of nylon tubing in the rear cockpit, at about 1" each side of the torque tube, and secured each of the nylon tubing to the floor, in 3 places with Adel clamps. The cables / nylon tubing approximately align with the height of the rudder bar, where they pass through the bulkhead between the front and rear cockpit. I attached the cables to the rudder bar at 3 1/2" R.B.L. (right butt line), and 3 1/2" L.B.L. using fittings that I made up out of a 1" length of tubing that had an I.D. of the O.D. of the rudder bar. I welded a pair of toungs to the this 1" tube, then used a hack saw to cut a slit in the 1" tube, between the toungs. Drill a hole in the toungs for a bolt, and it now acts as a clamp on the rudder bar, as well as another hole for the cable / nicopress. I attached everything up at the rudder bar, then did the final nicopress at the spring in the back...no need for adjustment. It's light, simple, and has so far worked flawlessly. I've got a leak in one of the master cylinders under the front seat, and tomorrow I'll take some digital pictures of that area. The pictures will also show the slick way I built my brake pedals / master cylinders. There's a lot of stuff going on under that front seat !! Chuck Gantzer still working some squawks


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:55:32 PM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
    Andy, If you are going to make them elsewhere, consider having them done in BRASS rather than Aluminum as most would LOVE to shine them up BRIGHT ! Consider that anybody with a modern Aluminum plane is going to go electronic gauge anyway, you have a potential to capture the market for the more rustic aircraft with high wings or biplane wings with a tank or tanks in them. Also, it may be desireable if the card (the gizmo with the F and E letters on it) has a more antique looking font on it. If you would like to change it to look more '20s, let me know and I will see what I can do with people I know. We would need the flat layout of what you have to start with. Theoretically, if you changed the design just enough, you could have parts made for different lengths and a top mount or a bottom mount. I have a gauge similar to this that I used in my Taylorcraft although it was part of the gas cap. The bottom line is that most people would want matching gauges. The parts could also be assembled by the builder to keep the cost and liability down. Make sure the float is compatible with ALL the fuels we use. Some might be using regular oxygenated gasahol in whatever they are flying way out in the future. A soldered brass float is always compatible. BTW, ask Jim Markle about his sandblasting cabinet that he built from my plans! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX.


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:10:45 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> thanks! a good idea which I will consider. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rcaprd@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheel springs/chains > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/7/04 6:57:38 PM Central Standard Time, djv@imagedv.com > writes: > > << Could some of you send me some pics or links to pics of your tail wheel > control connections? >> > > DJ, > I don't like the thought of tailwheel nicopress on primary flight control > cables, so the way I did my cables, was to nicopress the cable / thimble > right to the springs, and installed the springs through the holes in the tailwheel > horn, and run the 1/16" cable all the way up to the rudder bar. The springs > are lightweight type, that when you pull the ends, it compresses (as opposed > to stretching) the spring. I don't recall what you call that type of spring. > The cables penetrate the fabric on the bottom of the fuselage, pass through a > hole in a hardwood fairlead block (epoxied in at the station just ahead of the > tailpost) and almost a straight line up to through the rear cockpit. I ran > them through 24" lengths of nylon tubing in the rear cockpit, at about 1" > each side of the torque tube, and secured each of the nylon tubing to the floor, > in 3 places with Adel clamps. The cables / nylon tubing approximately align > with the height of the rudder bar, where they pass through the bulkhead between > the front and rear cockpit. > I attached the cables to the rudder bar at 3 1/2" R.B.L. (right butt > line), and 3 1/2" L.B.L. using fittings that I made up out of a 1" length of > tubing that had an I.D. of the O.D. of the rudder bar. I welded a pair of toungs > to the this 1" tube, then used a hack saw to cut a slit in the 1" tube, between > the toungs. Drill a hole in the toungs for a bolt, and it now acts as a > clamp on the rudder bar, as well as another hole for the cable / nicopress. I > attached everything up at the rudder bar, then did the final nicopress at the > spring in the back...no need for adjustment. It's light, simple, and has so far > worked flawlessly. I've got a leak in one of the master cylinders under the > front seat, and tomorrow I'll take some digital pictures of that area. The > pictures will also show the slick way I built my brake pedals / master > cylinders. There's a lot of stuff going on under that front seat !! > > Chuck Gantzer > still working some squawks > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:14:44 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: tail wheel springs/chains
    I saw Chuck's installation and I like it a lot. I plan to do the same. Terry B.


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:48:46 PM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Re: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem
    I meant Max, not Andy, as in Andimaxd. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Andy, If you are going to make them elsewhere, consider having them done in BRASS rather than Aluminum as most would LOVE to shine them up BRIGHT ! Consider that anybody with a modern Aluminum plane is going to go electronic gauge anyway, you have a potential to capture the market for the more rustic aircraft with high wings or biplane wings with a tank or tanks in them. Also, it may be desireable if the card (the gizmo with the F and E letters on it) has a more antique looking font on it. If you would like to change it to look more '20s, let me know and I will see what I can do with people I know. We would need the flat layout of what you have to start with. Theoretically, if you changed the design just enough, you could have parts made for different lengths and a top mount or a bottom mount. I have a gauge similar to this that I used in my Taylorcraft although it was part of the gas cap. The bottom line is that most people would want matching gauges. The parts could also be assembled by the builder to keep the cost and liability down. Make sure the float is compatible with ALL the fuels we use. Some might be using regular oxygenated gasahol in whatever they are flying way out in the future. A soldered brass float is always compatible. BTW, ask Jim Markle about his sandblasting cabinet that he built from my plans! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Gauge, Houston... we have a problem Group: I hope you all are experiencing the same weather that Jim Markle and myself are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, and are outside flying. Rochester gauges of Dallas made a sample of the inverted center section fuel gauge for me and it looks, and will work, great! That was the good news. The bad news is that they said it would not pass tooling, and it would not pass quality...I've said more than my share of curse words this week. At this point, they will not make them for me, stating, that they cannot mass produce this item and get the quality that they demand at the same time. I suggested that maybe they could sell them to me as a novelty or paper weight, to no avail. I showed it to Jim Markle and he also said it looks great. I have some pictures and even a clip I could send you, if you want to be as disgusted as we are. I truly think that in the event of an accident, this is an item that can keep an airplane from burning up, a person from getting burned or in the extreme, save someone's life. I am now looking at the possibility of producing the gauge, as well as marketing it, myself, to the homebuilding community. I am sorry for getting everyone excited about this, I did not understand, when the computer says it can't be done, the production engineers agree. Sorry guys, I'll keep you posted. Max Davis Arlington, TX.




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