Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 03/11/04


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:46 AM - rust dust (Michael D Cuy)
     2. 04:48 AM - how do you turn the engine without a prop ? (Michael D Cuy)
     3. 04:55 AM - wun weel chocked (Michael D Cuy)
     4. 05:37 AM - Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? (John Myers)
     5. 06:18 AM - propping while travelling (Michael D Cuy)
     6. 07:46 AM - Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? (Steve Eldredge)
     7. 12:06 PM - Re: engine disassembly (Christian Bobka)
     8. 12:37 PM - Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? (Christian Bobka)
     9. 03:55 PM - Re: nicopress strength - wow! (dave rowe)
    10. 05:14 PM - Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? (Gary Gower)
    11. 06:41 PM - pulley cable guards (DJ Vegh)
    12. 07:08 PM - Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out) (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    13. 07:29 PM - Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? (Ted Brousseau)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:46:10 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: rust dust
    du> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Steve-- when I balanced and tracked my wood prop last spring I too found what you are talking about on the exposed tapered portion of my tapered crankshaft on our A-65 Continental. I simply smeared a light coating of grease over the whole thing and wiped off the excess before re-installing the prop. I also gave the inside of the prop hub the same treatment. In addition I dipped my prop bolts in varnish before inserting them and applying torque to the bolts. The front plate too was a bit rusty so I cleaned it up and put a clear coat of spray clear over it to keep it purty. Mike C.


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:48:48 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to check for a bent crank or to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the 65 where to you grip to turn it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in place ? Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one amazing guy (and contribute some great wisdom to the list) that has flown soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet time pilot in the world. Literally. Mike C.


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:55:58 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: wun weel chocked
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> We had a guy prop a Cub just outside of an open metal-sided hangar but only chocked one wheel. Of course he was alone and the throttle was set too high so the plane just missed him after it got started rotating around the one chock and then made its way back in the hangar to chew the daylights out of a bicycle that was hanging on the wall. It was an ugly sound. We were about 500 feet away at the time. do not archive Mike C.


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:37:05 AM PST US
    From: John Myers <jmyers@powernet.org>
    Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
    <5.1.1.5.2.20040311074555.025b3e08@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Myers <jmyers@powernet.org> Mike, I am sure there are more scientific ways but I just put a scrap piece of 3/4 ply about 3 foot long and 6 or 8 inches wide on an old prop for a template and then drilled it to fit the flange. Bolt it on and I have about a 3 foot "bat" of ply to pull the engine through with the dial indicator on the back outer side of the flange. It helps to pull the plugs to keep from shaking things too much when dialing the crank. Hope that helps. A big hole saw for the center and a drill bit for the bolt pattern is all that is needed to drill it. It is one of those homemade tools that stays in the hangar with the special jacking tools, vacuum pump bent and ground off wrench etc. John At 06:48 AM 3/11/2004, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy ><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > >Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to >check for a bent crank or >to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the >65 where to you grip to turn >it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in >place ? > >Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one >amazing guy (and contribute >some great wisdom to the list) that has flown >soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet >time pilot in the world. >Literally. > >Mike C. > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:18:47 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: propping while travelling
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> I quickly learned after starting to take my planes to fly-in's and on cross countries that you don't trust ANYONE who says they know how to prop airplanes and let them help you get started. It is not worth it--no way, to trust what anyone says about their abilities to prop an airplane. (unless they own and regularly fly a non-electric start airplane) I made up this nice 8 foot long rope to tie to the tailwheel that has a big dog type clip from Home Depot on one end. I loop that clip end around cyclone fence posts, tie down rings, Greyhound buses, or whatever is secured to mother earth. Works great. I also carry a light set of aluminum angle wheel chocks that I use in conjunction with the rope tie down. Mike C. do not archive


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:46:10 AM PST US
    Subject: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
    From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu> You could take the stop screw out of the hub, and screw it alone back on the shaft and turn it with a lever through the holes. If an axle nut was the same thread that might work. I also noticed the front end of the crank looks like it has a large slot in it. You would need one large screwdriver. Thanks for the posts guys. It does make me feel better... Steve e\ -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to check for a bent crank or to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the 65 where to you grip to turn it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in place ? Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one amazing guy (and contribute some great wisdom to the list) that has flown soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet time pilot in the world. Literally. Mike C. == == == ==


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:06:29 PM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Re: engine disassembly
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com> Steve, Put some lapping compound between the hub and the crankshaft without the key installed. Line the hub key slot with the slot int he crank and lap back in forth about 30 degrees either side of each other. This will make for a better taper fit and illuminate most of the "gap". Be sure to clean the lapping compound off when you are done. Chris Bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu> > > Very good suggestions, and I'll take them. One thing I noticed when I > removed the prop, The tapered crankshaft is smooth, but has a very fine > coating of rust dust. I assume that this isn't a good sign. It wipes > off both the crank and the hub, but I expected bare or at least finished > > metal. > > Thanks again, > > Steve e > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Hansen > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:29 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engine disassembly > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" > <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > > Steve, > > Around twenty years ago I asked a veteran mechanic if he had ever seen a > crankshaft or engine damaged by a wooden propeller strike. Since that > time, > I have asked at least ten experienced aircraft mechanics the same > question > and always received the same answer: > > "Never." > > Since I have been a licensed aircraft mechanic since 1953, I guess I > also > fall into the "veteran" category. I have seen lots of engines seriously > damaged by a metal propeller strike, but never with a wooden propeller. > So > long as the crankshaft flange has not contacted anything hard, you > should be > OK. > > However, a thorough inspection of just about everything is in order, > including: > > ---checking runout and a dye penetrant inspection of the exposed > crankshaft; > ---inspecting engine mount and fittings; > ---inspecting the upper spar flanges just outboard from the wing strut > attach points* for compression failure; > ---inspecting the lower longerons near the landing gear attachment > points. > > * On the side that contacted the ground. > > Tough luck, but it could have been much worse. You should soon be > operational again . > > Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) Alberta, Canada > > > == > == > == > == > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:37:08 PM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com>
    Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <bobka@compuserve.com> Steve, As you turn the crank, make sure that you have the crank pressed in to the case all the way so you don't have crankshaft end play counting into your runout reading. chris bobka ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Myers" <jmyers@powernet.org> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Myers <jmyers@powernet.org> > > Mike, I am sure there are more scientific ways but I just put a scrap piece > of 3/4 ply about 3 foot long and 6 or 8 inches wide on an old prop for a > template and then drilled it to fit the flange. Bolt it on and I have > about a 3 foot "bat" of ply to pull the engine through with the dial > indicator on the back outer side of the flange. It helps to pull the plugs > to keep from shaking things too much when dialing the crank. > Hope that helps. A big hole saw for the center and a drill bit for the > bolt pattern is all that is needed to drill it. It is one of those > homemade tools that stays in the hangar with the special jacking tools, > vacuum pump bent and ground off wrench etc. > > John > > At 06:48 AM 3/11/2004, you wrote: > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > ><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > > >Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to > >check for a bent crank or > >to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the > >65 where to you grip to turn > >it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in > >place ? > > > >Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one > >amazing guy (and contribute > >some great wisdom to the list) that has flown > >soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet > >time pilot in the world. > >Literally. > > > >Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:55:32 PM PST US
    From: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: nicopress strength - wow!
    <006d01c40732$f4bea2f0$d2a86d44@Desktop> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca> I'm like you, doing a lot of metalwork right now, and loving it. I was a little nervous, my woodworking background is very strong, but not a lot of welding, cutting, etc. My R/C stuff is big, but not that big. Most people seem to go overboard on the fittings, even though the wood they're attached to is probably the weakest link.


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:14:37 PM PST US
    From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> Get one spark plug off each cilinder, attach two bolts to the flange in oposite positions and turn the engine with a wooden 2 x 2 or broom stick, no compression to fight and no danger of firing, an extra safety, switch off... Saludos Gary Gower --- Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how > to > check for a bent crank or > to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank > for the > 65 where to you grip to turn > it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop > in > place ? > > Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are > one > amazing guy (and contribute > some great wisdom to the list) that has flown > soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest > Piet > time pilot in the world. > Literally. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:41:23 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: pulley cable guards
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> where can I find pre-made pulley cable guards? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper -


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:08:51 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Down (but not out)
    Steve. Sorry to hear of the setback. Thank the Lord it wasn't worse. A couple of comments. 1) I would not necessarily tear the engine down. But like the others suggest, do check for bent crank and runout using a dial caliper. 2) ALSO, I haven't seen anyone mention it, but I would do a dye-penetrant inspection on the prop flange and the prop hub key (if yours is a tapered shaft). 3) AND, I'd probably pitch the prop bolts and get new ones. Terry B


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:29:58 PM PST US
    From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
    Subject: Re: how do you turn the engine without a prop ?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net> Mike, Wouldn't just installing a new prop and tracking it tell the tale? You are right about Graham. One piece of advice he gave me was to put a magneto kill switch on the outside of the cowling so you could shut it down from where you prop it if something is amiss. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: how do you turn the engine without a prop ? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > Maybe a dumb question, but I get all the dial indicator setup on how to > check for a bent crank or > to see if a crank rotates within tolerance, but on a flanged crank for the > 65 where to you grip to turn > it or what do you use ? Perhaps this procedure is done with the prop in > place ? > > Thank you Graham Hansen for staying on the list with us----you are one > amazing guy (and contribute > some great wisdom to the list) that has flown > soooooe many Piet hours over so many years. You must be the highest Piet > time pilot in the world. > Literally. > > Mike C. > >




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