Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Re: Washout?? (baileys)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: The second easiest rib question ()
3. 04:45 AM - Re: dihedral - how much? ()
4. 06:56 AM - Re: The second easiest rib question (Richard Navratil)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: dihedral - how much? (John Dilatush)
6. 07:08 AM - Re: The second easiest rib question (Andimaxd@aol.com)
7. 03:36 PM - Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) (Cory Emberson)
8. 04:57 PM - Re: The second easiest rib question (dave rowe)
9. 04:59 PM - Re: dihedral - how much? (dave rowe)
10. 05:32 PM - wing washout & dihedral (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 06:58 PM - Re: wing washout & dihedral (DJ Vegh)
12. 07:05 PM - Sport Pilot errata (Mike Whaley)
13. 09:34 PM - Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) ()
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
DJ,
Here is a response I got from Chuck G. to the same question last year. I
saved it in my goodstuff folder.
Bob B. - Missouri
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/03 8:40:23 AM Central Daylight Time, baileys@ktis.net
writes:
<< I haven't started construction so I'm spending a lot of armchair time
with
the plans.
My question is; what is the correct amount of washout and how do you
establish it? Is it done when the putting the ribs on the spars or while
mating the wings to the fuselage? Also what serves as a reference point?
Bob B. - Missouri >>
Bob,
Washout is a twist in the wing, where the leading edge of the outboard
portion of the wing is twisted to a lower angle of incidence than the
inboard
portion, causing the inboard portion to reach it's Critical Angle of Attack
before
the outboard portion. Angle of incidence is the angle between the Mean
Aerodynamic Chord (MAC) of the wing, and the longitude 0 of the fuselage -
on the
Piet it's the top of the longerons at the cockpits. On the Pietenpol the
angle
of incidence is set with the difference in length of the cabane struts - the
front ones are 1" longer than the back ones, making about a 3 angle of
positive incidence. The purpose of washout is to ensure the inboard
portion of the
wing is location where the stall begins, leaving the outboard aileron
portion
to be the last part of the wing to stall, thus maintaining aileron control
until the entire wing is stalled.
Now comes the kicker: On a hearshey bar wing - constant chord, straight
wing
-, the stall naturally occurs at the inboard portion of the wing, therefore
washout is not really required. Just rig the entire wing at the same angle
of
incidence as the inboard portion, where the cabane struts are, by the length
of the lift struts. Although, it could be recomended to err the tips toward
a
lower angle of incidence. The wing twists easily, till the lift struts &
cables are installed. On wings where the leading edge is swept, or the
trailing
edge is swept forward (tapered wings), or the entire wing is swept (like on
jets) is where washout really is needed, because sweeping the wing back
causes
the tips to stall first.
Chuck G.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Washout??
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> Is anyone running any washout in their wings? If so how much?
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: The second easiest rib question |
I made 30 ribs and ended up with one left over. It is now a conversation piece
in my office.
The only ribs with the extra bracing are the two outer tip ribs.
Greg Cardinal
P.S. Walt Evans has nice pictures of his plane in the latest issue of "To Fly"
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The second easiest rib question
Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for the
3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces.
Thanks
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: dihedral - how much? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Hi DJ,
Dale and I built in about 2" of dihedral and between 1/2" and 3/4" of
washout. I don't have that
in degrees.
Next time I would skip the dihedral and stick with anhedral per the plans.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: dihedral - how much?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you
> running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to
make
> my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: The second easiest rib question |
I hope so, I just built 30 of them.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The second easiest rib question
Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for the
3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces.
Thanks
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: dihedral - how much? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" <dilatush@amigo.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: dihedral - how much?
====================================
DJ,
The original Pietenpol with the one piece wing had no dihedral, of course.
The 3 pc wing came along because it was easier to build in a restricted
space, and then someone decided to use this modification to put in just an
inch or so of dihedral so as to eliminate the "drooped wing" appearance of
the one piece wing.
I understand that there is no discernable difference in the flight
characteristics with or without dihedral.
John
=======================================
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you
> running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to
make
> my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
>
> -
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The second easiest rib question |
In a message dated 3/13/2004 8:27:53 AM Central Standard Time,
At7000ft@aol.com writes:
> Would someone please confirm my counting? I count 30 total ribs needed for
> the 3 piece wing, including 6 end ribs with the extra braces.
>
> Thanks
>
Hi:
You need to make 31ribs for the three piece wing. The 31st one is for
hanging on the wall in your den/office. It truly is a work of art, and makes a
great conversation piece.
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) |
Hello!
I am writing an article for Kitplanes magazine that will feature builders who have
distinctive interiors and/or exteriors.
My deadline is rather short, so if you could email me as soon as possible, hopefully
by Tuesday, that will give me enough time to put it together.
Here are some of the criteria I'm looking for:
Interiors that are (one or any combination):
1. creative
2. inexpensive
3. very comfortable
4. lightweight
5. generally cool and different
6. distinctive in some way.
Exteriors that are:
1.. stunningly attractive
2.. original design
3.. historically accurate
4.. distinctive in some way
Other things to keep in mind:
1. How you came to design your interior/exterior (How you got your idea)
2. The reasons why you did it as you did
3. What benefits you had in mind
4. Any unexpected benefits (and/or pitfalls) there were
5. What you learned
6. How many hours you've flown with it (if completed)
7. How much of the work did you do yourself?
8. Did you have any professional assistance? How much?
9. The equipment and tools you used
10. How much time it took to build and install
11. The cost of building it.
12. Would you do it again the same way? Why?
Here are the photo requirements for Kitplanes: Photos must be 300 dpi at a size
large enough to use in the magazine, which is usually at least 3 x 3 inches.
If an image is 300 dpi at 1 x 1 inch, it won't be big enough to do any good. Hard
copy photos are good, too.
Thanks so much - I really appreciate your help!
best regards,
Cory Emberson
Hayward, CA [KHWD]
510.599.4409
cory@lightspeededit.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: The second easiest rib question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
I've only got 28, but have two half-ribs, due to putting a tank in the
centre section, so 30 sounds right.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: dihedral - how much? |
<006d01c40732$f4bea2f0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <4050FD6F.F2B30246@shaw.ca>
<000501c407db$2d9358c0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
<006c01c408a5$90cdd0d0$d2a86d44@Desktop>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
Good question, I assumed ther wouldn't be any, as the 1 pce doesn't have
any. . .
DJ Vegh wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> For those of you with 3 piece wings.... what dihedral angle are you
> running? The GN-1 plans give no indication of how much. I'm going to make
> my lift struts next Wednesday and need to determine dihedral before then.
>
> DJ Vegh
> N74DV
> Mesa, AZ
> www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | wing washout & dihedral |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
DJ asks about wing washout and dihedral for his GN-1.
Not sure what the Grega plans call for, but the Pietenpol plans and manual
are pretty much for a straight wing. Zero washout and essentially zero
dihedral (although the manual suggests rigging the wings with a tad extra
'up' at the tips so that when everything is buttoned down and the wings'
weight is released from slings or braces holding them up at rigging, they
will relax down to essentially zero dihedral).
Others have used a little dihedral to good effect; witness Mike Cuy's and
others. There has been plenty of discussion on this and a search on
'dihedral' on the archives will keep you reading for a while.
PS- I note several Piet pictures and clips in the latest issue of "To Fly",
including Walt Evans, who looks younger than he sounds here on the list.
(Did I say that right?)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: wing washout & dihedral |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Thanks for the response gents....
I keep forgetting how useful searching the archive is. Just spent the last
30 minutes readin olds posts about dihedral.
I think I'm gonna run 1.5 of dihedral and 0.3 of washout.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing washout & dihedral
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> DJ asks about wing washout and dihedral for his GN-1.
>
> Not sure what the Grega plans call for, but the Pietenpol plans and manual
> are pretty much for a straight wing. Zero washout and essentially zero
> dihedral (although the manual suggests rigging the wings with a tad extra
> 'up' at the tips so that when everything is buttoned down and the wings'
> weight is released from slings or braces holding them up at rigging, they
> will relax down to essentially zero dihedral).
>
> Others have used a little dihedral to good effect; witness Mike Cuy's and
> others. There has been plenty of discussion on this and a search on
> 'dihedral' on the archives will keep you reading for a while.
>
> PS- I note several Piet pictures and clips in the latest issue of "To
Fly",
> including Walt Evans, who looks younger than he sounds here on the list.
> (Did I say that right?)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot errata |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Just a couple interesting hangar-flying things...
At the TICO airshow today I stopped in the Aero-Adventures tent (they guys
that make the Sventura series among other neat planes) and talked to a
gentleman who's going to be doing SP training soon. He said the total cost
for someone off the street to get their SP license will be about $850 (no I
didn't forget a number there!) Ten lessons at $85 apiece, with no time
limit... you work on the lesson until you understand and can do what you
need to know how to do. This floored me... that's less than 25% of the
current cost of PPL training! No wonder that the FBO's refuse to acknowledge
that Sport Pilot even exists. (In fact, 3 weeks ago the local FBO told me
that the reason they weren't going to offer any SP training was "we don't
have any high-performance instructors available." Umm, yeah, whatever.) He
said he didn't expect too many problems with being able to rent SP planes or
in getting insurance... not too sure about that, at least for a while, but
we'll see.
After hearing that, for the rest of today all my wife could talk about was
how now we could both get our licenses soon. and when were we going to get
started on the Piet? She almost beat me when I mentioned other neat plane
ideas that crossed my mind... "No! I'm all excited about the Pietenpol! You
got me daydreaming about it! Dang it, that's gotta be first, THEN you can
build something else!!" Well, I guess that settles THAT! :)
I also talked to EAA HQ on Thursday, the gentleman there said that they're
expecting Sport Pilot to be published by late April if we're lucky (but not
to count on that, of course.) They also expect the weight limit to be raised
a little bit (maybe to 1300 lbs) and suspect that FAA will phase in various
aspects of it over a period of time... ie, existing private pilots who wish
to fly as sport pilots will be able to do that first, since there's little
infrastructure required, with other types of sport flying to be brought
online at prescribed intervals. They sound pretty enthusiastic about it all.
I know this has little to do with Pietenpols, except that I bet a lot of you
like Bird Dogs and L-4s and the like. Anyone interested in Forward Air
Controllers and their history (going back to balloons and biplanes) might be
interested to know that the very first ever FAC Museum is getting started,
and we desperately need support soon to help it get off the ground. Only $20
and you're a charter member. Details at http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ - tell
'em Merlin sent you.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors) |
Cory,
How about this for an interior. It is the instrument panel for the Air Camper Dale
Johnson
and I are building. The front cockpit panel features a veneer that is matched to
the rear panel.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Cory Emberson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Interiors/Exteriors)
Hello!
I am writing an article for Kitplanes magazine that will feature builders who
have distinctive interiors and/or exteriors.
My deadline is rather short, so if you could email me as soon as possible, hopefully
by Tuesday, that will give me enough time to put it together.
Here are some of the criteria I'm looking for:
Interiors that are (one or any combination):
1. creative
2. inexpensive
3. very comfortable
4. lightweight
5. generally cool and different
6. distinctive in some way.
Exteriors that are:
1.. stunningly attractive
2.. original design
3.. historically accurate
4.. distinctive in some way
Other things to keep in mind:
1. How you came to design your interior/exterior (How you got your idea)
2. The reasons why you did it as you did
3. What benefits you had in mind
4. Any unexpected benefits (and/or pitfalls) there were
5. What you learned
6. How many hours you've flown with it (if completed)
7. How much of the work did you do yourself?
8. Did you have any professional assistance? How much?
9. The equipment and tools you used
10. How much time it took to build and install
11. The cost of building it.
12. Would you do it again the same way? Why?
Here are the photo requirements for Kitplanes: Photos must be 300 dpi at a size
large enough to use in the magazine, which is usually at least 3 x 3 inches.
If an image is 300 dpi at 1 x 1 inch, it won't be big enough to do any good.
Hard copy photos are good, too.
Thanks so much - I really appreciate your help!
best regards,
Cory Emberson
Hayward, CA [KHWD]
510.599.4409
cory@lightspeededit.com
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