---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/18/04: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Steel Gage (David Paulsen) 2. 05:24 AM - Re: Landing gear (Carbarvo@aol.com) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Beginning to Build - Questions (del magsam) 4. 05:40 AM - Re: the myths about rib stitching (Carbarvo@aol.com) 5. 06:26 AM - Re: Steel Gage (Gadd, Skip) 6. 06:28 AM - The myths about rib stitching (Sayre, William G) 7. 06:42 AM - Re: Beginning to Build - Questions (DJ Vegh) 8. 06:59 AM - New Piet (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 9. 07:55 AM - Re: Beginning to Build - Questions (Kip and Beth Gardner) 10. 08:08 AM - Re: The hardest part (At7000ft@aol.com) 11. 08:16 AM - Re: Aerocarb on Ebay (At7000ft@aol.com) 12. 08:18 AM - Re: the myths about rib stitching (Cy Galley) 13. 08:32 AM - threads on wing stuts (Christian Bobka) 14. 08:35 AM - Re: threads on wing stuts (Andimaxd@aol.com) 15. 08:38 AM - Re: Aerocarb on Ebay (DJ Vegh) 16. 08:47 AM - Re: Beginning to Build - Questions (DJ Vegh) 17. 09:00 AM - Re: the myths about rib stitching (Christian Bobka) 18. 09:08 AM - threaded end of cub struts (Christian Bobka) 19. 10:04 AM - Re: threaded end of cub struts (DJ Vegh) 20. 10:28 AM - Re: threaded end of cub struts (Christian Bobka) 21. 11:07 AM - Re: threaded end of cub struts (DJ Vegh) 22. 01:09 PM - Re: Aerocarb on Ebay (Knot2Shabby5TA6@aol.com) 23. 03:02 PM - Re: the myths about rib stitching (Carbarvo@aol.com) 24. 03:13 PM - Re: Steel Gage () 25. 03:27 PM - Re: the myths about rib stitching (walt evans) 26. 04:23 PM - Re: Aerocarb on Ebay (del magsam) 27. 04:48 PM - Re: Aerocarb on Ebay (del magsam) 28. 05:28 PM - Re: Aerocarb on Ebay (DJ Vegh) 29. 08:15 PM - Re: the myths about rib stitching (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:16 AM PST US From: "David Paulsen" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Gage Dear List, My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:31 AM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear I believe that St. Croix Aircraft is or was connected with Chad C. Wille. He's an old hand at Pietenpols. (I mentioned him the other day in a posting.) Chad's Scout is featured on p.30 of Sport Aviation Feb 1998. I have one of their propellers and I'm glad I do, but can't speak for it from experience because I've never spun it....Carl Vought, Huntsville, AL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:53 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - Questions I'm seeing a lot of emails like this, if you read the rules you will find that if you want to thank someone, say "way cool", or anything that takes up space, send it to the recipiant personally, instead of to the group. do not archive Bruce __ wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bruce __" DJ and Carl, Thanks for the response. Bruce do not archive All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:44 AM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching I did my rib stitching by myself. To reduce the number of trips from one side of the wing to the other, I made 15 straight needles each about 8" long. After marking and punching stitch locations, I ran all needles through the wing, along one rib, went to the bottom side of the wing and ran them all back through the wing. Then I went back to the top side and tied starting knots at each location (the Polyfiber manual speaks approvingly of using all starter knots). Then I proceeded to the next rib and did the same thing....Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:41 AM PST US From: "Gadd, Skip" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel Gage Dave, The outside vee fitting in the lower right corner of the of figure 6A is pretty clear, 16 gage steel. The other inside vee, outside and inside landing gear fittings are not very readable, but do look like 16 gage, most likely, probably ;<) Maybe someone who actually made this type of gear will write in and say what thickness 4130 they used. Skip My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri Message Dave, The outside vee fitting in the lower right corner of the of figure 6A is pretty clear, 16 gage steel. The other inside vee, outside and inside landing gear fittings are not very readable, but do look like 16 gage, most likely, probably ;) Maybe someone who actually made this type of gear will write in and say what thickness 4130 they used. Skip My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: The myths about rib stitching From: "Sayre, William G" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" As usual, Michael is right on with his forge ahead advice. My first job rib-stitching still makes me chuckle inside. I had the book (Stitts). I had the video. I had 41.13. I read and watched carefully. Both paper resources just gave me a headache with the "pull line A through loop B while going under piece C" stuff. I have to mention that my workshop/play area is about 200 feet from my house. I'd watch the video, pause certain scenes, rewind and repeat for details and when I was totally convinced that I understood it I'd confidently go to the shop and discover that in 200 feet I had totally forgotten what I had just seen. I'd get about three knots down the rib and "poof", "How'd that go?" Back to the house and pause, rewind and repeat until I was absolutely, positively totally convinced I understood it and off I'd go that 200 feet just to find I was still confused. This had to happen three or four times before I finally grabbed a scrape front seat frame and covered it with fabric, shrunk it and sat down in front of the TV and slowly followed the video step by step. For me, that finally did it and the rib-stitching went well after that. It really is easy and even enjoyable - once you work through that dang nab convoluted process. Of course then there's the brackets or braces that end up in the way. The wax feeling you get on your hands and of course, how darned sharp that thread can end up being after doing a bunch of ribs. But that's another smile I get thinking about the joys of homebuilding. Keep at it. We all need things to smile and chuckle about! Bill Sayre ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:23 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - Questions ZGVsIC4uLi4gc2hvdWxkbid0IHlvdSBoYXZlIHNlbnQgdGhhdCBlbWFpbCBkaXJlY3RseSB0byB0 aGUgb2ZmZW5kZXI/ICB5b3UganVzdCAidG9vayB1cCBzcGFjZSINCg0KOi0pDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gN Ck43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNhbXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQog IC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZyb206IGRlbCBtYWdzYW0gDQogIFRv OiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KICBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTWFyY2gg MTgsIDIwMDQgNjoyNyBBTQ0KICBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IEJlZ2lubmlu ZyB0byBCdWlsZCAtIFF1ZXN0aW9ucw0KDQoNCiAgSSdtIHNlZWluZyBhIGxvdCBvZiBlbWFpbHMg bGlrZSB0aGlzLCBpZiB5b3UgcmVhZCB0aGUgcnVsZXMgeW91IHdpbGwgZmluZCB0aGF0IGlmIHlv dSB3YW50IHRvIHRoYW5rIHNvbWVvbmUsIHNheSAid2F5IGNvb2wiLCBvciBhbnl0aGluZyB0aGF0 IHRha2VzIHVwIHNwYWNlLCBzZW5kIGl0IHRvIHRoZSByZWNpcGlhbnQgcGVyc29uYWxseSwgaW5z dGVhZCBvZiB0byB0aGUgZ3JvdXAuDQogIGRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoNCg0KICBCcnVjZSBfXyA8 YnJ1Y2VfX19AaG90bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KICBZYWhvbyEgTWFpbCAtIE1vcmUgcmVsaWFi bGUsIG1vcmUgc3RvcmFnZSwgbGVzcyBzcGFt ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:32 AM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:59:34 -0500 Pieters- Just got word that John Ficklen's Piet will be inspected on Saturday!! It will be based at the Apalachicola, FL airport. His next goal is to have the time flown off in time to take it to Sun-N-Fun. After that, he's committed to getting it to B'head for the 75th anniversary reunion. Speaking of the anniversary............... looks like there is NOTHING planned at OSH for the observance of this venerable old design. What to do?? Larry ps. Got an e-mail last night from Mike Madrid out in Lompoc, CA that he just bought an airplane.........it's a Grega, though. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:36 AM PST US <001801c40cf7$79ca4110$d2a86d44@Desktop> From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - Questions At 7:44 AM -0700 3/18/04, DJ Vegh wrote: >del .... shouldn't you have sent that email directly to the >offender? you just "took up space" > >:-) > >DJ Vegh >N74DV >Mesa, AZ Actually DJ, I consider it a community issue that goes beyond one or two individuals. It was the flood of 'way cool' responses, along with the big picture files that drove Gene Rambo off the list. I don't think Del was out of line at all to request a little more restraint on this point. Do Not Archive Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:30 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The hardest part I hope so. Sure he isn't refering to an Advisory for an aircraft manufacturer? Maybe I'm doing too much here, but in my conversations with Dave Smith at MSP MIDO , who is supervising my inspection, they are asking for more. He says the log is to include pictures of sub assemblies not visable, a written description of work preformed, including outside help received, detail of any modifications from plan and a cronological timeline of construction. I just passed 20 pages on this part. The operation manual is to include a parts list, weight balance data, anticipated operation limits and preformance data. I was told the Cessna 150 manual might be a good base for design. The Advisory Circular for Homebuilts states that all aircraft must have an Operations Manual for flight. Am I wrong on this point? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:59 AM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ What carb did you end up using on your Corvair? RH didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467879692 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:11 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching Interesting idea but why didn't you do several ribs at the same time? One starter knot and then work up these ribs. With 15 needles you could do 15 ribs minimizing the switching sides as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carbarvo@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching I did my rib stitching by myself. To reduce the number of trips from one side of the wing to the other, I made 15 straight needles each about 8" long. After marking and punching stitch locations, I ran all needles through the wing, along one rib, went to the bottom side of the wing and ran them all back through the wing. Then I went back to the top side and tied starting knots at each location (the Polyfiber manual speaks approvingly of using all starter knots). Then I proceeded to the next rib and did the same thing....Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:30 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: threads on wing stuts Max, At the bottom end of the strut, what is the depth of the threads and how long is the threaded portion of the clevis? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: sbobka@charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:25 AM Subject: Re: threads Chris: I have the struts off of a cub...that we are going to cut down from the top. Max ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:14 AM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threads on wing stuts I haven't taken one of them apart yet. They came off of a flying cub. Piper specs. Max ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:04 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay I think I'm gonna get an Ellison TBI. It's expensive but it's a damn good unit. I may have to run a Marvel or Stromberg in the interim until I can come up with the $$$ for the Ellison. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ What carb did you end up using on your Corvair? RH didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2467879692 = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:27 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - Questions Re: Pietenpol-List: Beginning to Build - QuestionsI don't necessarily think Del was out of line either.... But it's obvious that the guy is a noob and there's no need to scare him off right off the bat. So what if he appreciates someone answering his requests. I think about it this way... if we were all at a fly-in and we were all talking in a circle, and one guy asks a question... and say another guy answers it. It would be really wierd for the guy who asked the question to then grab the hand of the guy who answered his question and then run off into the corner and secretly give his thanks... you might think he's gay or something. :) seriously though... I can understand it to some extent..... I just enjoy being a smartass sometimes. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip I don't think Del was out of line at all to request a little more restraint on this point. Do Not Archive Kip Gardner = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:32 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching Cy, that is what I woulda thunk too. Do fifteen ribs at a time. Maybe he has his wing up against the wall vertically? Did you see that email about inavailablity of 4130 sheet? Do you know anything about that issue? Chris do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:06 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: sbobka@charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:20 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts the Piper fork has a 7/16-20 thread. The way I did it was I threaded the fork into the strut 20 turns... which gave me 1" of contact I can go up to 4 turns out and still be OK. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: sbobka@charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:10 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts DJ That is good info. You obviously use 1" less 4/20 of an inch or about 3/4" engagement as a minimum. What is the basis of this? chris ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts the Piper fork has a 7/16-20 thread. The way I did it was I threaded the fork into the strut 20 turns... which gave me 1" of contact I can go up to 4 turns out and still be OK. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: Andimaxd@aol.com ; pietenpol Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: sbobka@charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:24 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts well... first I wanted to find the thread stress area if the fork was threaded 1/2" (10 turns) which on a 7/16-20 is .119" =B2/revolution. I foundthe formula for that here: http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/thrd_strss_100a_pop.htm so..... .119 x 10 turns 1.19" =B2 I figured 5G's of the gross weight hanging on just one strut fork with the strut at 60=B0 would be 12,000 lb so 12,000/1.19 approx 10kpsi. I'm guessing the lift strut fork has an ultimate shear failure of at least 90kpsi. that leaves me with a factor of safety of 9! and thats if the entire plane is hanging from just one fork which does not happen happens. So then I just figured 3/4" looks about right. :-) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts DJ That is good info. You obviously use 1" less 4/20 of an inch or about 3/4" engagement as a minimum. What is the basis of this? chris ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts the Piper fork has a 7/16-20 thread. The way I did it was I threaded the fork into the strut 20 turns... which gave me 1" of contact I can go up to 4 turns out and still be OK. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: Andimaxd@aol.com ; pietenpol Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: threaded end of cub struts Max, Now I remember... I think there should be a witness hole up along the threaded part of the strut bottom about 3/4" or an inch. When you have the clevis in the strut, a piece of wire stuck in the hole should hit the clevis indicating that it is in that far or more. Does this make sense? It may be clogged with paint, etc.. Spherical joints also use this witness hole method of ensuring adequate thread engagement. chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd@aol.com To: sbobka@charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: RE Max Davis Chris: How's it going? I have been extremely busy at work as of late and have not had the time to pester the Rochester Gauge Co. I thought I would give them a little time, anyway, and regroup before the next attack. I have some photo's and even a 20 second clip if you are interested and have DSL. I can't remember if I sent it out or not. I don't think I did because of all the whining about large files on the list. Let me know back...I would be happy to send pictures of the prototype with assorted fittings to date. We are going to install them in the next few days. As soon as we get the plumbing installed we are going to put the wings on. Does the 2 1/2 thread rule apply the lift struts? If so, how in the world can I cut those things to those tolerances. I am almost positive a cub has more than 3 treads showing. Have a good one, Max Davis Arlington, TX. This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:58 PM PST US From: Knot2Shabby5TA6@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ: I did some research on this and if I can find my info, it isn't a good idea on a gravity fed system. This info came to me from EAA HQ about 4 months ago. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:00 PM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching That's the way I started to do it....one needle for each rib..But I decided to do one rib at a time because the work is concentrated in one place, requiring less movement from one rib to the next. Secondly, I thread 30" of waxed cord onto each needle at a time. I wind all 15 pieces of cord around a fixture (a board with two nails 15" apart) at one time then thread all needles at one sitting....It all seemed simpler to me to deal with the short pieces of cord than the long ones. How many feet of cord are required to do one rib on a piet with the conventional method? What is meant by stitch "sides"? Besides, with the starting knot, a straight needle is required. That makes it easier to get consistency between needles and to find the hole on the opposite side of the wing. I found that I was tying enough knots per hour to put some serious wear on my fingers, so I took a RH glove and cut off the thumb and index finger. That protected the fingers getting the most abuse and provided the dexterity required for the thumb and index finger. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:17 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel Gage Message16 ga. or .063 is correct. Dale and I weighed our landing gear. Included were the gear legs, axle, spreader bars, bracing cables, wheels and tires. Total weight - 60 lbs Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gadd, Skip To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com' Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel Gage Dave, The outside vee fitting in the lower right corner of the of figure 6A is pretty clear, 16 gage steel. The other inside vee, outside and inside landing gear fittings are not very readable, but do look like 16 gage, most likely, probably ;<) Maybe someone who actually made this type of gear will write in and say what thickness 4130 they used. Skip My Flying and Glider Manuel is a little blurred. It appears that the steel that is used to reinforce the areas around the wood landing gear on page 17 is 16 gage steel. Even with a magnifying glass it is hard to be sure. Can someone confirm that it is 16 gage. Thanks. Dave in Missouri ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:35 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" As per the Poly Fiber manual, if, after you snap chalk lines, you "pre-poke" the stitch holes, by sliding the wing toward you , you can stitch half(front to back) the wing at the aeleron area. From the rear and then from the front. The root of the wing can be done with just a little stretching to get to the center. Just put the wing on horses instead of a table, so when you put the needle down thru you can climb under and pull it down and send it back up. The note in the Poly fiber manual about the light under the wing pointing up is the answer. Makes the wing invisable, and you can see everything. including all control cables and drag/anti-drag wires Funny how the strangest things put up a mental block of jobs to do on building. : ) (including me) walt evans NX140DL > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:27 PM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay you did some research on what? and it isn't a good idea on what gravity feed system? Del Knot2Shabby5TA6@aol.com wrote: DJ: I did some research on this and if I can find my info, it isn't a good idea on a gravity fed system. This info came to me from EAA HQ about 4 months ago. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:03 PM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ I see in the ebay pic that you had the carb on top of the engine, but I think I remember that you put it underneath although the 2nd pic doesn't look like a vair setup. did you run it gravity feed on the bottom and it still didn't want to run right? I've been thinking about a pressure pump that will work with the aerocarb. I also noticed that when you had it mounted on top, it is oriented the wrong direction to the intake tubes to run properly. Its just that mine works so well that I hate to think that you have to waste your money on an ellison. I mean, we are innovative people here, who can make a simple vair engine work, why can't we figure out a little ol' aerocarb. that so many are flying with already, with good success. the aerocarb may have its thing, but it atomizes the fuel well, it only has a couple of moving parts, and its ice resistant, unlike a complex expensive ellison. Del DJ Vegh wrote: I think I'm gonna get an Ellison TBI. It's expensive but it's a damn good unit. I may have to run a Marvel or Stromberg in the interim until I can come up with the $$$ for the Ellison. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay DJ What carb did you end up using on your Corvair? RH didn't get much interest on selling my Aerocarb so I put it up on ebay... if anyone is interested here's the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467879692 This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:05 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ebay bXkgbWFpbiBjb25jZXJuIGlzIHdpdGggdGhlIHRocm90dGxlIHN0aWNraW5nIGlzc3VlLiAgSSBk byBub3QgbGlrZSB0aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IEkgaGFkIHN0aWNraW5nIHByb2JsZW1zLiAgVGhlIGxh c3QgdGhpbmcgSSB3YW50IGlzIHRvIGhhdmUgdG8gcGVyZm9ybSBhIGdvLWFyb3VuZCBhbmQgdGhl biBJIGhpdCB0aGUgdGhyb3R0bGUgYW5kIGl0J3MgYSBuby1nby4gIEkgaGFkIGl0IGhhcHBlbiBv dXQgb2YgdGhlIGJsdWUgZm9yIG5vIHJlYXNvbi4gIE9uZSBkYXkgaXQgd2FzIGZpbmUgdGhlIG5l eHQgaXQgd2FzIHN0aWNraW5nLiAgSSB3YXMgdXNpbmcgYWlyY3JhZnQgcXVhbGl0eSBjYWJsZXMg d2l0aCB0ZWZsb24gbGluZXJzLi4uLiBjYWJsZXMgc2VjdXJlZCBhdCB0aGUgcHJvcGVyIGxvY2F0 aW9ucyBhbmQgb25seSAxIDkwIGRlZ3JlZSBiZW5kLiAgVGhlcmVzIG5vIHJlYXNvbiBpdCBzaG91 bGQgaGF2ZSBzdHVjay4gIEkgZmlndXJlIHNvbWUgVlcgcG93ZXJlZCBTb25leCBwZW9wbGUgbWF5 IGhhdmUgYmV0dGVyIGx1Y2sgd2l0aCBpdC4NCg0KREogVmVnaA0KTjc0RFYNCk1lc2EsIEFaDQp3 d3cuaW1hZ2Vkdi5jb20vYWlyY2FtcGVyDQoNCg0KDQotDQoNCiAgLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVz c2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCiAgRnJvbTogZGVsIG1hZ3NhbSANCiAgVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1h dHJvbmljcy5jb20gDQogIFNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAxOCwgMjAwNCA1OjExIFBNDQog IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogQWVyb2NhcmIgb24gRWJheQ0KDQoNCiAgREoN CiAgSSBzZWUgaW4gdGhlIGViYXkgcGljIHRoYXQgeW91IGhhZCB0aGUgY2FyYiBvbiB0b3Agb2Yg dGhlIGVuZ2luZSwgYnV0IEkgdGhpbmsgSSByZW1lbWJlciB0aGF0IHlvdSBwdXQgaXQgdW5kZXJu ZWF0aCBhbHRob3VnaCB0aGUgMm5kIHBpYyBkb2Vzbid0IGxvb2sgbGlrZSBhIHZhaXIgc2V0dXAu IGRpZCB5b3UgcnVuIGl0IGdyYXZpdHkgZmVlZCBvbiB0aGUgYm90dG9tIGFuZCBpdCBzdGlsbCBk aWRuJ3Qgd2FudCB0byBydW4gcmlnaHQ/IEkndmUgYmVlbiB0aGlua2luZyBhYm91dCBhIHByZXNz dXJlIHB1bXAgdGhhdCB3aWxsIHdvcmsgd2l0aCB0aGUgYWVyb2NhcmIuIEkgYWxzbyBub3RpY2Vk IHRoYXQgd2hlbiB5b3UgaGFkIGl0IG1vdW50ZWQgb24gdG9wLCBpdCBpcyBvcmllbnRlZCB0aGUg d3JvbmcgZGlyZWN0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBpbnRha2UgdHViZXMgdG8gcnVuIHByb3Blcmx5LiBJdHMg anVzdCB0aGF0IG1pbmUgd29ya3Mgc28gd2VsbCB0aGF0IEkgaGF0ZSB0byB0aGluayB0aGF0IHlv dSBoYXZlIHRvIHdhc3RlIHlvdXIgbW9uZXkgb24gYW4gZWxsaXNvbi4gSSBtZWFuLCB3ZSBhcmUg aW5ub3ZhdGl2ZSBwZW9wbGUgaGVyZSwgd2hvIGNhbiBtYWtlIGEgc2ltcGxlIHZhaXIgZW5naW5l IHdvcmssIHdoeSBjYW4ndCB3ZSBmaWd1cmUgb3V0IGEgbGl0dGxlIG9sJyBhZXJvY2FyYi4gdGhh dCBzbyBtYW55IGFyZSBmbHlpbmcgd2l0aCBhbHJlYWR5LCB3aXRoIGdvb2Qgc3VjY2Vzcy4gdGhl IGFlcm9jYXJiIG1heSBoYXZlIGl0cyB0aGluZywgYnV0IGl0IGF0b21pemVzIHRoZSBmdWVsIHdl bGwsIGl0IG9ubHkgaGFzIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIG1vdmluZyBwYXJ0cywgYW5kIGl0cyBpY2UgcmVz aXN0YW50LCB1bmxpa2UgYSBjb21wbGV4IGV4cGVuc2l2ZSBlbGxpc29uLg0KICBEZWwNCg0KICBE SiBWZWdoIDxkanZAaW1hZ2Vkdi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KICAgIEkgdGhpbmsgSSdtIGdvbm5hIGdl dCBhbiBFbGxpc29uIFRCSS4gIEl0J3MgZXhwZW5zaXZlIGJ1dCBpdCdzIGEgZGFtbiBnb29kIHVu aXQuICBJIG1heSBoYXZlIHRvIHJ1biBhIE1hcnZlbCBvciBTdHJvbWJlcmcgaW4gdGhlIGludGVy aW0gdW50aWwgSSBjYW4gY29tZSB1cCB3aXRoIHRoZSAkJCQgZm9yIHRoZSBFbGxpc29uLg0KDQog ICAgREoNCg0KICAgIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogICAgRnJvbTogQXQ3 MDAwZnRAYW9sLmNvbSANCiAgICBUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSANCiAg ICBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTWFyY2ggMTgsIDIwMDQgOToxNiBBTQ0KICAgIFN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogQWVyb2NhcmIgb24gRWJheQ0KDQoNCiAgICBESg0KDQogICAgV2hh dCBjYXJiIGRpZCB5b3UgZW5kIHVwIHVzaW5nIG9uIHlvdXIgQ29ydmFpcj8NCg0KICAgIFJIDQog ICAgICBkaWRuJ3QgZ2V0IG11Y2ggaW50ZXJlc3Qgb24gc2VsbGluZyBteSBBZXJvY2FyYiBzbyBJ IHB1dCBpdCB1cCBvbiBlYmF5Li4uIGlmDQogICAgICBhbnlvbmUgaXMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBoZXJl J3MgdGhlIGxpbmsuDQoNCiAgICAgIGh0dHA6Ly9jZ2kuZWJheS5jb20vZWJheW1vdG9ycy93cy9l QmF5SVNBUEkuZGxsP1ZpZXdJdGVtJml0ZW09MjQ2Nzg3OTY5Mg0KICAgIFRoaXMgZW1haWwgaGFz IGJlZW4gc2Nhbm5lZCBmb3Iga25vd24gdmlydXNlcyBhbmQgbWFkZSBzYWZlIGZvciB2aWV3aW5n IGJ5IEhhbGYgUHJpY2UgSG9zdGluZywgYSBsZWFkaW5nIGVtYWlsIGFuZCB3ZWIgaG9zdGluZyBw cm92aWRlci4gRm9yIG1vcmUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gb24gYW4gYW50aS12aXJ1cyBlbWFpbCBzb2x1 dGlvbiwgdmlzaXQgLiANCg0KDQogIERlbC1OZXcgUmljaG1vbmQsIFdpDQogICJmYXJtZXJkZWxA cm9ja2V0bWFpbC5jb20iDQogIERvIHlvdSBZYWhvbyE/DQogIFlhaG9vISBNYWlsIC0gTW9yZSBy ZWxpYWJsZSwgbW9yZSBzdG9yYWdlLCBsZXNzIHNwYW0NCg== ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:31 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the myths about rib stitching --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 3/18/04 10:18:48 AM Central Standard Time, cgalley@qcbc.org writes: << Interesting idea but why didn't you do several ribs at the same time? One starter knot and then work up these ribs. With 15 needles you could do 15 ribs minimizing the switching sides as well. >> That's the way I did it. I had my 29' wing mounted on vertical jigs in the living room, dining room and out the back door to the enclosed back porch. It was pretty easy to access the top and the bottom of the wing. I marked a 5' piece of capstrip with the stitch location, and just went down the wing, and pencil marked the stitch locations. I think I spliced the chord once for each rib. A bright light allows you to see inside the wing. Some stitches had to be moved a little, to avoid some things inside the wing. I think they were 2 1/2" apart in the prop blast + one rib, and the rest of the wing was 3 1/2" apart. I think I had like 500 stitches total wing. The wing was a main topic of conservation when I had a visitor. The two most popular questions were "Are you married?", and "How are you going to get this thing out of the house?" Chuck G.