---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/24/04: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:42 AM - Re: EAA's new "Sport Pilot" magazine (Isablcorky@aol.com) 2. 12:24 PM - Web spar (Richard Carden) 3. 12:57 PM - Re: Web spar (DJ Vegh) 4. 01:25 PM - Re: Web spar (Knot2Shabby5TA6@aol.com) 5. 08:22 PM - aux fuel tanks (DJ Vegh) 6. 09:39 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (Clif Dawson) 7. 10:03 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (jimboyer@direcway.com) 8. 10:17 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (DJ Vegh) 9. 11:17 PM - Re: Web spar (Peter W Johnson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:17 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA's new "Sport Pilot" magazine Doc, Thanks for this update. The Sport Aviation publication which comes with EAA membership is an excellent publication however it has little to hold my interest. I called EAA weeks back and asked if they would send me the new Sport Pilot magazine in lieu of Sport Aviation. I was pleased that the answer was yes. I'm looking forward to that April issue. Thanks Corky in La waiting for the Sport Pilot to pass also. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:08 PM PST US From: Richard Carden Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden Pieters: I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips. Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been built and is actually flying? I'd appreciate any referrals. Many thanks, Dick Carden ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:35 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Web spar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" the Fisher line of aircraft use a plywood spar with sitka spruce caps. My dad has them on his Fisher Celebrity. Good and strong. I don't have actual dimensions but I'm going over tohis hour on Thursday and can get them if you'd like. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Carden Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden Pieters: I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips. Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been built and is actually flying? I'd appreciate any referrals. Many thanks, Dick Carden This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:03 PM PST US From: Knot2Shabby5TA6@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Web spar Dick: I built an Avid Flyer about 13 years ago. It had plywood ribs with a very wide capstrip. The capstrips were wide enough that Avid did not advise or recommend rib stitching. In fact, the factory Avid Speedwing could zip along at 130 MPH and I personally did aerobatics in one. There has never been a situation of fabric pulling off of a glue-down capstrip on an Avid. The pilots who worked at Avid flew the devil out of their factory airplanes, on many occasions from Idaho to Sun & Fun. I loaned my Avid to a guy when I was away on a business trip. He stalled it out at about 300 feet and the resulting crash destroyed my airplane (did not injure the pilot). The plywood ribs held up very well. Much to my amazement, Avid spars are made of aluminum tube (both front and rear spars.) The plywood rib is bonded to the aluminum spar with a two part 3M epoxy. Not a single joint failed in the crash but chromoly tubing on the fuselage pulled apart at a couple of weld points and in the middle of tube where no weld was present. When I took the wreck home to begin salvaging what I could, I had great difficulty in tearing the fabric from the capstrips. If memory serves me correct, the capstrips were about 3/4 inch wide. I had thought about plywood ribs last night and today my goal was to track down a friend of mine who was the GM at Avid to see if I could find out who made their ribs. I like the idea of glued-on fabric without rib stitching (despite the fact that there are nonbelievers in this method) because the end result is a very attractive wing, not to mention saving some labor. If I locate someone who can build such a plywood rib, I'll contact you. In the meantime, I'm going to also try and locate Avid's former R&D guy. A terrific pilot and A&P named Jim Raider. (I may have spelled his last name wrong.) Jim is one of those guys who in VERY analytical and wouldn't incorporate something into his project unless it was a proven process. I think Jim built an Avid Magnum with a 160HP Lycoming using plywood ribs and no rib stitching. Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6 (San Antonio Sectional) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:32 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues not physical size) That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats only 160 mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few between. For the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 gallons or so. well... I came across these today http://www.ultralight.ca/fuelsystem.htm (scroll down a little bit) Aux tanks that mount up to the struts. They look sorta like a wheel pant. about 5.3 US gal. capacity. Thats an extra 1.5 hrs of flight time. I'd like to hear some feedback from y'all. Maybe these are not such a hot idea... or maybe they' d be great... what do ya think? DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:40 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks <004a01c4112d$ba65f0e0$d2a86d44@Desktop> <000d01c41131$19cdbd80$0301a8c0@domain> <007701c41135$18833f50$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001701c41139$9446ea20$0301a8c0@domain> <009601c4113e$24ce2230$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001101c41148$ffad9520$0301a8c0@domain> <009d01c41220$727e26a0$d2a86d44@Desktop> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson The Chinook is one tough airplane( check it out on the link panel on the left of the page) and has been around for a long time. Some have seen use as bush planes. You'll see two of these tanks on it. That's the entire fuel supply. That's a pretty good endorsement. Also they're semi transparent, built in fuel gauge! Clif Subject: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > well... I came across these today > > http://www.ultralight.ca/fuelsystem.htm (scroll down a little bit) > > Aux tanks that mount up to the struts. They look sorta like a wheel pant. > about 5.3 US gal. capacity. Thats an extra 1.5 hrs of flight time. > > I'd like to hear some feedback from y'all. Maybe these are not such a hot > idea... or maybe they' d be great... what do ya think? > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:36 PM PST US From: jimboyer@direcway.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com Hi DJ, I have the same problem. My fuselage tank design is only 12.7 gallons and I really didn't want to put a tank in the wing center section either. These definitely would be the most streamlined think on the Piet. What about the increased complexity though of adding two extra fuel switch positions (assuming you did use one on each strut to maintain balance). Thats four positions for fuel selection. Unless you can use it to top off the fuse tank when its burned down about 5 gallons. How about mounting just one over the center section at about the CG? Do not archive Cheers, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5- > 6gph. My > fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to > weight/CG issues > not physical size) > > That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats > only 160 > mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few > between. For > the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 > gallons or so. > > well... I came across these today > > http://www.ultralight.ca/fuelsystem.htm (scroll down a little bit) > > Aux tanks that mount up to the struts. They look sorta like a > wheel pant. > about 5.3 US gal. capacity. Thats an extra 1.5 hrs of flight time. > > I'd like to hear some feedback from y'all. Maybe these are not > such a hot > idea... or maybe they' d be great... what do ya think? > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > - > > > > > > _- > _- > _- > _- > ======================================================================== > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:52 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I was thinking of going simple and using a small 12V fuel pump for each one. 2 switches on the panel, one for each. Fuel would be pumped from the aux tank and into the fuse tank. no valves required. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com > > Hi DJ, > > I have the same problem. My fuselage tank design is only 12.7 gallons and I really > didn't want to put a tank in the wing center section either. > > These definitely would be the most streamlined think on the Piet. What about the > increased complexity though of adding two extra fuel switch positions (assuming > you did use one on each strut to maintain balance). Thats four positions for fuel > selection. Unless you can use it to top off the fuse tank when its burned down about > 5 gallons. > > How about mounting just one over the center section at about the CG? > > Do not archive > > Cheers, Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DJ Vegh > Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:20 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5- > > 6gph. My > > fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to > > weight/CG issues > > not physical size) > > > > That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats > > only 160 > > mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few > > between. For > > the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 > > gallons or so. > > > > well... I came across these today > > > > http://www.ultralight.ca/fuelsystem.htm (scroll down a little bit) > > > > Aux tanks that mount up to the struts. They look sorta like a > > wheel pant. > > about 5.3 US gal. capacity. Thats an extra 1.5 hrs of flight time. > > > > I'd like to hear some feedback from y'all. Maybe these are not > > such a hot > > idea... or maybe they' d be great... what do ya think? > > > > DJ Vegh > > N74DV > > Mesa, AZ > > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > _- > > _- > > _- > > ======================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:10 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Web spar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Dick, I am building my Piet with plywood and cap strip spars. I bought a set of Piet plans from Donald Pietenpol's UK Distributor that have PFA approval. The front spars are 4 3/4 x 1 1/8 made up of 1 1/4 x 7/8 cap strips with ply completely on one side and partially on the other. The rear spars are 4 3/4 x 1 made up of 7/8 x 3/4 cap strip. The center section uses 1 1/4 x 7/8 cap strips (same as front spar). Check out my web site http://www.cpc-world.com for some pictures. Click on "Airframe Construction" --> "Wings" --> "Wing Spars". Some of the UK flying Piets are detailed at http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Carden Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden --> Pieters: I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips. Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been built and is actually flying? I'd appreciate any referrals. Many thanks, Dick Carden advertising on the Matronics Forums.