Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: Web spar (Alexander Birca (MD/RMD))
2. 05:05 AM - carrying extra fuel (Michael D Cuy)
3. 05:30 AM - Re: Piet project for sale on ebay. (Larry Ragan)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: aux fuel tanks (At7000ft@aol.com)
5. 07:56 AM - Re: aux fuel tanks (DJ Vegh)
6. 10:49 AM - Web spar Piet wings (Doc Mosher)
7. 12:54 PM - Re: Piet project for sale on ebay. (Jim Markle)
8. 01:02 PM - oops... Piet project for sale on ebay. (Jim Markle)
9. 01:08 PM - Doc Mosher (Michael D Cuy)
10. 07:56 PM - Re: Web spar (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 08:02 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 10:37 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (Gary Gower)
13. 11:11 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" <alexander.birca@ericsson.com>
Dick,
Have a look to this site: http://www.solent-strut.co.uk
They are building Jim Wills modification of wing which is exactly what you need.
PFA approved design.
BR,
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Carden
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden
--> <flywrite@erols.com>
Pieters:
I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips.
Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been built and is
actually flying?
I'd appreciate any referrals.
Many thanks,
Dick Carden
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Message 2
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| Subject: | carrying extra fuel |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
DJ-- would carrying an extra 5 gallons of fuel strapped in the front seat
help you out or do you want access to the fuel in flight ? (I'd
imagine) I think the sight of those tanks on a Piet would be a turn off
(for me anyway) and what do you do with them once you get to a fly-in ? I
guess tho one thing I've found is that once you get somewhere if you are
camping out the tent holds and protects everything you've brought with you
and the tanks could be put in there. (though I wouldn't want that fuel
smell in my tent all night)
Any chance to put even a few gallons in say one of your wing rib bays
?? Near the root ?? A nice pair of alum. tanks between the front and rear
spars would fit nicely and I'll bet would give you at least an extra 10
gallons. Now would be the time to do that with your new set of wings
! Would be really nice to have those wing tanks---and hidden, and unique,
and totally functional without all those brackets and fuel lines, fuel pump
creating more drag.
Just some thoughts with coffee......
Mike C. in rain, but warm Ohio !
Message 3
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| Subject: | Piet project for sale on ebay. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
Jim,
Is the Piet project an extended fuse? Plans come with it?
Thanks
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan@hotmail.com
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: aux fuel tanks |
Why not put another tank in the wing center section?
I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size)
That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats only 160
mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few between. For
the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 gallons or so.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: aux fuel tanks |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I may do that... it would take some extensive modification of the center
section as I have built it already. Maybe I could at least put a 4 gallon
tank in there without changing it. I'll measure it out and do the math
tonight.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks
Why not put another tank in the wing center section?
I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size)
That gives me 2 hrs of flight at best..... cruising at 80mph thats only 160
mile range. Fuel stops out here in the desert are far and few between. For
the longer trips to fly-ins it'd be nice to have an extra 10 gallons or so.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Web spar Piet wings |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net>
Richard -
When the Pietenpol was "discovered" by the Brits, it was acknowledged as a
great airplane for its purpose. However, the availability and the high
cost of spruce for the wings was a problem for builders. A fine gentleman
by the name of Jim Wills, who lives in East London, with the cooperation of
the Pietenpol family, designed and built a set of wings using just the kind
of web spar you are describing. Rather than an I beam, his spar is, as
Peter describes, really a C section. The PFA in the UK approved the
redesign, and most of the Piets there use Jim's web spar.
Peter, you are in Australia, and Jim will sell you a set of
plans. However, I live in North America, and Jim is reluctant to sell me a
set of his webspar plans. Wichita, the home of many aviation liability
lawsuits, is in North America, and Jim does not want to get burned. Try as
I have, I have not convinced Jim that in the USA the amateur builder of the
airplane is responsible for its airworthiness, not the
designer. Fortunately for me, one night I had a revelatory experience
(Mike Cuy knows I have these at times), and on awakening, I was able to
draw up sketches (for my personal use only) of just such a wing plan. If
you need a copy of my sketches, let me know.
The PFA approved plans for the Jim Wills style of Piet produces a stronger,
lighter, and lower cost wing. The wing is a three-piece wing, with an
emphasis on easy disassembly for storage during winter. In fact, Jim has
built in a clever set of aileron system arms that butt against each other
upon attachment of the wings to the center section and thus eliminate
having to disconnect and reconnect the aileron cable control system.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
Message 7
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| Subject: | Piet project for sale on ebay. |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Piet project for sale on ebay. |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Doc DOES have these revelatory experiences from time to time........I just
can't convince him to have the one I want
him to have !
Do not archive
Mike C.
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 3/24/04 2:24:43 PM Central Standard Time,
flywrite@erols.com writes:
<< I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips. >>
Richard,
Why are you considering this mod ?
Chuck Gantzer
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: aux fuel tanks |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 3/24/04 10:23:10 PM Central Standard Time, djv@imagedv.com
writes:
<< I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about 5-6gph. My
fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG issues
not physical size) >>
DJ,
I think the center section is the best place to put your extra fuel. Simple
reliable gravity feed, on the CG, replentish the cowl tank, no pumps, no fuel
quantity indicator needed.
Chuck Gantzer
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: aux fuel tanks |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
DJ,
Maybe a coment a few posts ago about safety is right, about the tanks
in the center section and fuse... Yes, maybe to much gasoline in the
pilot/pasenger area in case of an emergency landing.
Using two wing tanks, single conection, gravity fed to the fuse tank by
a single 90 fuel valve. use the fuse tank indicator for fuel transfer.
Also is safer, in an emergency over "unfriendly" landscape, just point
the fuselage betwen two trees and the fuel tanks are left in the
back... Knock wood, but is better to spare the plane for saving the
life.
Remember: Is very dificult and needs a lot of brains to design things
the simpler way...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/24/04 10:23:10 PM Central Standard Time,
> djv@imagedv.com
> writes:
>
> << I've got a Corvair for power and it's supposed to burn about
> 5-6gph. My
> fuse tank can be no larger than about 13 gal. (limited to weight/CG
> issues
> not physical size) >>
>
> DJ,
> I think the center section is the best place to put your extra fuel.
> Simple
> reliable gravity feed, on the CG, replentish the cowl tank, no pumps,
> no fuel
> quantity indicator needed.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: aux fuel tanks |
There's two aspects of safety.
1) Airworthiness
2) Crashworthiness
If you optimize the design for #1, then you minimize the probability of #2
being a factor. Chuck's point is that the simple gravity flow system is more
airworthy than the other design, i.e. the liklihood of engine failure due to
fuel starvation is minimal. The more complicated system with fuel pumps, etc
increases the liklihood of fuel starvation, thus decreasing the airworthiness.
Yeah, it is more crash worthy... but do we consider that safe? And who really
wants to go do that test?
I think that if more folks designed from the "airworthiness" point of view,
there would be far fewer homebuilt airplane accidents.
Thats my $ .02.
Terry B
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