---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/26/04: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Re: Web spar () 2. 03:48 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (Kip and Beth Gardner) 3. 07:41 PM - Re: aux fuel tanks (Rcaprd@aol.com) 4. 09:27 PM - operation manual (Richard Navratil) 5. 11:32 PM - Re: operation manual (DJ Vegh) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:52 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Web spar --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dick, I can't help you with a "proven and flying" example but I do have an article from an early Sport Aviation issue that deals with designing a plywood webbed spar. I don't have a scanner but if you, or anyone else, wants a copy just send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to me and I'll mail a copy. Greg Cardinal 5236 Shoreview Ave. Minneapolis, MN 55417 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carden" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Web spar > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden > > Pieters: > > I'm thinking about making my wing spars from plywood with cap strips. > > Does anyone know of a PROVEN design . . . that is one that has been > built and is actually flying? > > I'd appreciate any referrals. > > Many thanks, > Dick Carden > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:35 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks At 2:10 AM -0500 3/26/04, BARNSTMR@aol.com wrote: >There's two aspects of safety. >1) Airworthiness >2) Crashworthiness > >If you optimize the design for #1, then you minimize the probability >of #2 being a factor. Chuck's point is that the simple gravity flow >system is more airworthy than the other design, i.e. the liklihood >of engine failure due to fuel starvation is minimal. The more >complicated system with fuel pumps, etc increases the liklihood of >fuel starvation, thus decreasing the airworthiness. Yeah, it is >more crash worthy... but do we consider that safe? And who really >wants to go do that test? > >I think that if more folks designed from the "airworthiness" point >of view, there would be far fewer homebuilt airplane accidents. > >Thats my $ .02. > >Terry B In this vein, I've noted before that WmWynne had a center section tank that he made by glassing in most of it. This tank had about 20 gal. capacity & it did not rupture in the crash that destroyed his Piet. As he has mentioned several times, he believes that there would not have been a fire if he had put check valves on his tank outlets that would have stopped fuel flow when the lines sheared off in the crash. All this sounds both airworthy and simple to me, and 20 gal. gives adequate flight time at Corvair burn rates. Also, allows you to use the forward section for baggage & then there are no shifting w&B issues to deal with, as many people have mentioned happens when you burn off gas in a nose tank. That's my $.02 :). Kip Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:04 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aux fuel tanks --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 3/26/04 5:49:08 PM Central Standard Time, kipandbeth@earthlink.net writes: << As he has mentioned several times, he believes that there would not have been a fire if he had put check valves on his tank outlets that would have stopped fuel flow when the lines sheared off in the crash. >> Kip, This is a 'Crashworthy Device'. I've heard of this type of check valve, but haven't seen any in use. I believe it's design is a delicate balance between the fuel flow needed for sustained full power oporation, and the increased fuel flow of a ruptured line. If the valve fails during service, it could starve the engine for fuel. If the valve fails at the crash site, it would still allow fuel to flow, especially if it is just a cracked line or fitting, allowing just a small quantity of fuel to flow. Or, if the craft came to rest in an attitude that doesn't allow full fuel flow. Personally, I don't like this type of valve, and wouldn't use it. The best design would be to use one outlet, and one good quality ball valve, mounted right to the bottom of the wing tank (above the passengers head), actuated via a torque tube back to the pilot seat. Emergency check list would include turning the fuel off. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:52 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: operation manual For anyone who is interested, I have completed a base Operation Manual for the Piet. I have deleted most of the Pictures for my manual but the file still comes to about 1.5 mb. Too large to post so if anyone wants to copy it respond direct at www.horzpool@goldengate.net and I will send it out. It run about 22 pages. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:55 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: operation manual RGljaywNCg0KaWYgeW91IGVtYWlsIGl0IHRvIG1lIEkgY2FuIHBvc3QgaXQgb24gbXkgd2Vic2l0 ZSBhbmQgdGhlbiBwcm92aWRlIGEgbGluayB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCBmb3Igb3RoZXJzIHRvIGRvd25s b2FkLg0KDQoNCkRKIFZlZ2gNCk43NERWDQpNZXNhLCBBWg0Kd3d3LmltYWdlZHYuY29tL2FpcmNh bXBlcg0KDQoNCg0KLQ0KDQogIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQogIEZyb206 IFJpY2hhcmQgTmF2cmF0aWwgDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0K ICBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIE1hcmNoIDI2LCAyMDA0IDEwOjI3IFBNDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRl bnBvbC1MaXN0OiBvcGVyYXRpb24gbWFudWFsDQoNCg0KICBGb3IgYW55b25lIHdobyBpcyBpbnRl cmVzdGVkLCBJIGhhdmUgY29tcGxldGVkIGEgYmFzZSBPcGVyYXRpb24gTWFudWFsIGZvciB0aGUg UGlldC4gIEkgaGF2ZSBkZWxldGVkIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIFBpY3R1cmVzIGZvciBteSBtYW51YWwg YnV0IHRoZSBmaWxlIHN0aWxsIGNvbWVzIHRvIGFib3V0IDEuNSBtYi4gIFRvbyBsYXJnZSB0byBw b3N0IHNvIGlmIGFueW9uZSB3YW50cyB0byBjb3B5IGl0IHJlc3BvbmQgZGlyZWN0IGF0ICAgd3d3 Lmhvcnpwb29sQGdvbGRlbmdhdGUubmV0ICBhbmQgSSB3aWxsIHNlbmQgaXQgb3V0LiAgSXQgcnVu IGFib3V0IDIyIHBhZ2VzLg0KICBEaWNrIE4u