---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/31/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - A new Pietenpol in Florida !!! (Michael D Cuy) 2. 06:56 AM - Continental inter-cylinder baffles (Sayre, William G) 3. 07:08 AM - Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles (Jim Markle) 4. 12:39 PM - Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles (walt evans) 5. 01:08 PM - Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles (Christian Bobka) 6. 01:38 PM - inspection (Richard Navratil) 7. 01:44 PM - New Piet in the air (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 8. 02:07 PM - inspection (Richard Navratil) 9. 02:10 PM - Re: inspection (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 10. 02:27 PM - Re: Inspection 2 (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 11. 02:35 PM - Re: inspection (Fred Weaver) 12. 02:50 PM - Re: inspection (Bert Conoly) 13. 02:59 PM - Re: Continental inter-cylinder baffles (walt evans) 14. 03:24 PM - Re: inspection (walt evans) 15. 04:31 PM - Re: inspection (Cy Galley) 16. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Inspection 2 (Rcaprd@aol.com) 17. 08:22 PM - Inspection (Richard Navratil) 18. 08:28 PM - Re: Inspection (Andimaxd@aol.com) 19. 09:31 PM - Re: Inspection (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:42 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: A new Pietenpol in Florida !!! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Congratulations to Phil Beck on his first flight and great photos on photoshare Skip G....thank you for posting them for us all. I received a phone call last night from a very happy and very proud John Ficklen in Florida. His Pietenpol flew for the first time yesterday afternoon around 3:30 pm and after two landings John reported that the plane had a cruise speed of 85 mph and flew very well on the maiden flight with it's 85 hp Continental engine. John said his goal is to have the plane on the flightline at Sun-N-Fun soon and he hopes to make it to the Brodhead gathering this summer. Hopefully he and Ted B. will make the trip up north to share their Air Campers with us all. Congratulations John ! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles From: "Sayre, William G" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" chris bobka writes; Make them. The patterns are in one of the Bingelis books. ------------------------------ Yea, yea - I know. You're absolutely right and I probably will make them. I was just looking for ways to get this thing airborne this summer and thought this detail might save some time while I finish covering and so on. Bill ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:06 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" And if you had a good lathe you wouldn't have to buy all those damn bolts! Jim in Plano...feeling a bit silly but enjoying the heck out of the "New Baby's flyin'" stories....very cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sayre, William G" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" > > chris bobka writes; > > Make them. The patterns are in one of the Bingelis books. > ------------------------------ > Yea, yea - I know. You're absolutely right and I probably will make them. I was just looking for ways to get this thing airborne this summer and thought this detail might save some time while I finish covering and so on. > > Bill > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:48 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Bill, I took mine off of the A65 (that came off of an Areonca) and if they are the ones that I think you mean, they are simply a rectangle of aluminum bent to follow the lower shape of the cyl.'s with a flat in the center (between cyl.'s) with a hole to wire them up to a welding rod on top to take the shape of the cyl tops... Just looked at mine that are in an old parts bucket down in my aircraft factory. (well actually it's a 10x20ft. cellar.) You could really make them both in less than 1 hour. Chris is right, if you have the pattern, make them. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sayre, William G" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" > > I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200) inter-cylinder baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them. > > Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and this is a low-and-slow design. > > Thanks! > > Bill > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:59 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" As Walt says, it is too easy to make them... Used ones will most likely be damaged. You want to cool properly and want the sytem to work properly. New ones made to the Bingelis drawings would enable this. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" > > Bill, > I took mine off of the A65 (that came off of an Areonca) and if they are the > ones that I think you mean, they are simply a rectangle of aluminum bent to > follow the lower shape of the cyl.'s with a flat in the center (between > cyl.'s) with a hole to wire them up to a welding rod on top to take the > shape of the cyl tops... Just looked at mine that are in an old parts > bucket down in my aircraft factory. (well actually it's a 10x20ft. > cellar.) > You could really make them both in less than 1 hour. > Chris is right, if you have the pattern, make them. > walt evans > NX140DL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sayre, William G" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:41 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" > > > > > I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200) inter-cylinder > baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of > these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the > Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them. > > > > Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and this > is a low-and-slow design. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:30 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I havent found it yet. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:26 PM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet in the air Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:44:32 -0500 Pieters- Yet another birth announcement........ John Ficklen's Piet took to the air for the first time out of the Apalachicola airport yesterday (Monday). It was up for an hour and explored high speed, low speed, stalls, climb angles and rates, and other things that I don't remember. Sounds like another winner, and he is going gang-busters to fly off the time so he can be at Sun-n-fun. His BIG PLAN is to make it to B'head for the 75th. Seems like we're going through a "baby boom" of Piets this year. Donny Emch up in Northern Ohio should be in the air soon, too.................. You there, Donny? Larry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:27 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection Cancel my last request for help finding AD's on FAA site . I found it. Dick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:51 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inspection --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Dick; Look on the following URL http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet You won't find anything on Pietenpol airplanes, because Airworthiness Directives are only issued against Type Certified products. Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:48 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Inspection 2 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Your FAA man should be aware that there are no ADs on pietenpols. But to his credit, he is only trying to follow the recipe for assurance of design safety. There is perhaps more pertinent design safety info for homebuilts on the following FAA URL containing service difficulty reports (SDRs). Click on the Query link and under manufacturer, enter "AMTR" for amateur built aircraft. The search will bring up many reports of service problems that have been reported to FAA. I did a quick query for "Pietenpol" under the model heading and found one item attached. http://av-info.faa.gov/isdr/ Theres also a number of "what not to do's" in the NTSB accident investigation data. Chuck Gantzer on the list provided a good breakdown for Piet accidents a while back. Terry L. Bowden ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:34 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inspection Tell him to take a hike...... This is simply not required. You need a new inspector or a good DAR. This guy is not doing you any good at all. Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I havent found it yet. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:20 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inspection Dick. It sounds like you should also be doing a search for a competent FAA man. It's obvious he's clueless if he's asking for ADs on Pietenpols. As I recall aren't ADs issued on Certified Aircraft - not homebuilts? Maybe ADs are issued on engines - but if the whole aircraft is certified experimental why does this even matter? These people confuse me. See you next week... BC do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I havent found it yet. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:37 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Bill, I have these old ones, and if you'd like to see them in your hand, I can stomp them flat and mail them to you if you'd like. Two baffles and the wires for the top, and the big cotter pin that secures the baffle, and the safety wire that holds them all together. It really looks like these were made by hand, but you could see the concept. Let me know! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" > > Bill, > I took mine off of the A65 (that came off of an Areonca) and if they are the > ones that I think you mean, they are simply a rectangle of aluminum bent to > follow the lower shape of the cyl.'s with a flat in the center (between > cyl.'s) with a hole to wire them up to a welding rod on top to take the > shape of the cyl tops... Just looked at mine that are in an old parts > bucket down in my aircraft factory. (well actually it's a 10x20ft. > cellar.) > You could really make them both in less than 1 hour. > Chris is right, if you have the pattern, make them. > walt evans > NX140DL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sayre, William G" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:41 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental inter-cylinder baffles > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" > > > > > I'd like to purchase a set of Continental (65,85 or 0-200) inter-cylinder > baffles and attach hardware. I'm hoping that a Pieter has obtained one of > these small Continentals from a pressure-cowled airplane and went with the > Cub style eyebrows, which wouldn't require them. > > > > Okay - they're not for a Piet, but I'm building one of those also and this > is a low-and-slow design. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:47 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inspection Dick, I know this has been answered already, but it's amazing what you go thru with the FAA. When I went for my repairmans cert. got an FAA guy (really nice guy who said he normally did the "big iron" the 777's.) He had to go and get a sheet to be able to go thru the criteria. He said that a builders log was required. Even gave me examples of a procedure to follow to create the log. The Photo log that I showed him only made him say "nice plane", but it wasn't enough. It happened I was flying to Fl. for 4 days to visit my mother. So got the book he suggested and started entering. In the airport, in the plane, in the airport again, in the plane again, blah,blah. A week later called the number again , and he said he'd been "reassigned" , and to walk in and get the "duty guy". Another nice guy (really) and sat down with all the paperwork. He looked at all the stuff,,,,,glanced at the album and said "nice plane" , and then said, "lets get to the paperwork!!!! there was the builders log over there on the table,,and it was never brought up again. Now the builders log sits at the bottom of my "stuff" doing nothing. It's a funny world!! A doctor (vet) friend of mine built a plane and was having it inspected by the FAA, with a mutual friend, my mentor, standing by. My mentor relates this story that the inspector looked at the oil tank on the A65, and said "why would you use such a small gas tank"???? They just looked at each other and bit their tongues. They said nothing and the plane passed. true story. nuff said. Guess there's a million stories out there. This is just another. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I havent found it yet. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:48 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inspection Repeat after me... There aren't any AD for experimental aircraft. With that said there are ADs on components like engines, magnetos and the like. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inspection The FAA man told me to complete a search on any AD's for the Pietenpol or the contintal engine before my inspection on Saturday. Does anybody know where I would find this info? I assume it is somewhere linked to the FAA site but I havent found it yet. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:10 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Inspection 2 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 3/31/04 4:28:30 PM Central Standard Time, BARNSTMR@aol.com writes: << Theres also a number of "what not to do's" in the NTSB accident investigation data. Chuck Gantzer on the list provided a good breakdown for Piet accidents a while back. >> I still have them stored on my computer. I could e-mail it to anyone that is interested...just e-mail me directly with your request. I'll print out a copy to bring to Brodhead. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG still working some squawks... ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:14 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection Thanks alll for the comments on AD's. I need to cover all bases here. I did a search for all major components, engine, prop and and even did a search upner the word Pietenpol. I pulled up all AD's and verified all complied with. Bases are now covered. Cy, you propably know Joe Norris from EAA. He will be doing my inspection. He sounds like a real nice guy, problem he will be bringing along his supervisior from the FAA district office who will be observing him performing the inspection. I spent some time going over the Piet tonight again, I now think I am ready. Dick ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:42 PM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspection Dick: Can I borrow all of your paper work and paraphernalia when the time comes for me? I doubt they will know the difference anyhow? Good luck on the big event... Max Arlington, TX. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:22 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspection Dick, what about the weight and balance? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection Thanks alll for the comments on AD's. I need to cover all bases here. I did a search for all major components, engine, prop and and even did a search upner the word Pietenpol. I pulled up all AD's and verified all complied with. Bases are now covered. Cy, you propably know Joe Norris from EAA. He will be doing my inspection. He sounds like a real nice guy, problem he will be bringing along his supervisior from the FAA district office who will be observing him performing the inspection. I spent some time going over the Piet tonight again, I now think I am ready. Dick