---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/08/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:17 AM - Re: Flop or not to flop? (Peter W Johnson) 2. 06:56 AM - Re: Flop or not to flop? (DJ Vegh) 3. 09:53 AM - FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis (Ken Chambers) 4. 10:17 AM - Re: Flop or not to flop? (walt evans) 5. 10:21 AM - Re: Flop or not to flop? (walt evans) 6. 12:04 PM - Re: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis (DJ Vegh) 7. 12:20 PM - Tail feather hinge question (At7000ft@aol.com) 8. 12:55 PM - Re: Tail feather hinge question (Isablcorky@aol.com) 9. 01:00 PM - Re: Tail feather hinge question (Isablcorky@aol.com) 10. 02:44 PM - Re: Flop or not to flop? (Peter W Johnson) 11. 03:42 PM - tall pilots (Les Schubert) 12. 05:55 PM - Re: tall pilots (DJ Vegh) 13. 07:47 PM - Re: Tail feather hinge question (Bruce __) 14. 08:34 PM - Piet cabane dimensions (DJ Vegh) 15. 09:16 PM - McCormick Lumber (rhartwig11@juno.com) 16. 09:44 PM - fuselage door (ADonJr@aol.com) 17. 09:50 PM - Piet building at Sun 'n Fun / was: McCormick Lumber (Jim Ash) 18. 09:56 PM - Piet plans at Sun 'n Fun ? (Jim Ash) 19. 11:02 PM - Re: Piet cabane dimensions (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:12 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" DJ, How do the aileron control cables route on a GN-1? I would have to start the flop at the alieron spar position as there is the control cable and pulley between that and the spar. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN latches) that secure it. lots of pics here http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:30 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" ahhhhhh good point. The GN1 has the ail cables run behind the front spar. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" > > DJ, > > How do the aileron control cables route on a GN-1? I would have to start the > flop at the alieron spar position as there is the control cable and pulley > between that and the spar. > > Cheers > > Peter. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:07 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of > room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN > latches) that secure it. > > lots of pics here > > http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm > > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:17 AM PST US From: "Ken Chambers" (by way of Matt Dralle ) Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis Pietenpolistas As promised (threatened?) I've been looking around for folks knowledgeable enough to shed a little light on the Pietenpol's FC-10 airfoil. To that end, visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck. He's graciously spent his time and considerable expertise to create some helpful figures and comparisons. See the end of his article for his qualifications and more information. Ken Chambers, once again gluing bits of wood onto the fuselage in Austin, Texas ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:46 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" DJ, Real nice job! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of > room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN > latches) that secure it. > > lots of pics here > > http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm > > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:12 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Peter, I had to move my wing back 3", and it's the only way I could get in. Also the view overhead would be completely blocked without it. This I need due to busy skydiving operations at our airport. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" > > Hi Guys, > > I am about to glue up the center section and was wondering as to what > performance/handling concerns are there over the permanent circular cut out > in the center section for easy pilot access, or the flop (temporary access > panel of the complete centre section from the aileron spar position back to > the trailing edge). > > I think the circular center section cutout would be easier to build and one > less item on the take off check list. > > Any comments? > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi, > Victoria, Australia. > http://www.cpc-world.com > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:19 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis OUTSTANDING!! I'm printing this out and keeping it with my contruction log & notes. Who is Mike Shuck? DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Chambers (by way of Matt Dralle ) Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol airfoil analysis Pietenpolistas As promised (threatened?) I've been looking around for folks knowledgeable enough to shed a little light on the Pietenpol's FC-10 airfoil. To that end, visit the Matronic's file share for a well-written and well-considered article with computer analysis by Mike Shuck. He's graciously spent his time and considerable expertise to create some helpful figures and comparisons. See the end of his article for his qualifications and more information. Ken Chambers, once again gluing bits of wood onto the fuselage in Austin, Texas = This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information on an anti-virus email solution, visit . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:47 PM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinge question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: At7000ft@aol.com Would like anyones opinion on mounting elevator and rudder hinges. Just directly against the 'Main Beam' or cut out a channel with a router and inset them? Couldn't find much in the archives, am using Vi's aluminum hinges. Thanks RickH ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:02 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinge question Rick, I'll tell you how I did mine for Repiet: First I paired and numbered the hinges for I D. Then with various sized files I fitted each pair also sized the holes for 3/16 pins. THEN I located the hinge positions on each hinge beam. With sharp chisels and drill bits I countersunk for each hinge half. Installed and bolted hinges. All this was done BEFORE assembling the surface parts. It's easier to use a drill press that way. When you finish your feathers it's all ready to hinge and almost ready to fly. Corky ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:32 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinge question Rick, Forgot to mention: On the nut side of the beams fit and glue a 1/16 piece of ply to resist the bolting compression. Corky ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:53 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Thanks DJ, that explains that little problem. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" ahhhhhh good point. The GN1 has the ail cables run behind the front spar. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" > > DJ, > > How do the aileron control cables route on a GN-1? I would have to start the > flop at the alieron spar position as there is the control cable and pulley > between that and the spar. > > Cheers > > Peter. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 1:07 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flop or not to flop? > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > my flop is hinged at the rear spar. It's a big flop but provides ALOT of > room to get into and out of the plane. It has two latches (actual AN > latches) that secure it. > > lots of pics here > > http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm > > > DJ Vegh > N74DV > Mesa, AZ > www.imagedv.com/aircamper > > > - > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:02 PM PST US From: Les Schubert Subject: Pietenpol-List: tall pilots --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert DJ Vegh I notice that you are 6' 4", the same as I am. I concluded that I just could not fit in to a Piet if I left in the front seat. So I am building it as single place. Maybe you are really agile and slim or are you going with a single place as well. I hope to be flying in about 2 months as I have picked up a helper with a lot of homebuilt experience to assist me. Les in Calgary Alberta Canada ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:36 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tall pilots --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" well... I stretched my fuse and widened it. I pushed the rear seat back about 2", moved the firewall forward 1.5" and moved the tail post back 1". I also widened the fuse 2" and the rear cockpit and widened it 1" at the firewall. This gives me ALOT of room. The fit is amazingly comfortable! Makes sitting in a Super Cub feel like a sardine can..... which I can now attest to as I have spent the last 4 days flying about 6 hours in a Super Cub as I am working on my tailwheel endorsement. My Aircamper is way more comfortable than that Cub. Remember... this is experimental aviation and you can change whatever you like.... push pull stretch squeeze... whatever.. just make sure it's safe and go for it! DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Schubert" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tall pilots > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert > > DJ Vegh > I notice that you are 6' 4", the same as I am. I concluded that I just > could not fit in to a Piet if I left in the front seat. > So I am building it as single place. Maybe you are really agile and slim or > are you going with a single place as well. > I hope to be flying in about 2 months as I have picked up a helper with a > lot of homebuilt experience to assist me. > Les in Calgary Alberta Canada > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:28 PM PST US From: "Bruce __" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail feather hinge question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bruce __" >Would like anyones opinion on mounting elevator and rudder hinges.... Rick, Heres a second vote for cutting a channel and insetting the hinges. This past winter I bought a set of hinges from Vi Kapler. I had seen differing ways to mount the hinges on various web sites, so I asked Vi how Bernie did it. He replied, Bernie Pietenpol chiseled out a pocket in the beam so that the base of the hinge is set flush with the surface of the beam. No plywood under the hinge base, but 1/16 ply is put under the nuts on the back side. Bruce ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:05 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet cabane dimensions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I do not have a set of Piet plans and have a question. What is the dimension for the front and rear cabanes? I'm trying to figure how much longer or shorter they are than GN-1 cabanes. Thanks! DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: McCormick Lumber From: rhartwig11@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com I met Dick Navratil at McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just after noon today--helped him pick out four sticks of spruce for spars on the Piet wing that will be built at Sun'N'Fun. Dick was wasting no time as he was planning to get past Nashville before calling it a day. After picking, loading a paying he was on the road. Dick Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:33 PM PST US From: ADonJr@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage door Hello, group, As a relative newbe (sp?) to the group, I have been reading with great interest all of the bits and pieces offered by various members. Thank you for all of your contributions. Now, a question.... I have the drawings for Harry Price's door modification, and it looks very complicated (and heavy). My wife will really appreciate the added convenience of a door to enter the front cockpit of our Piet. Is there a simpler, yet reliably strong alternative? I have just built my work table, and am about to begin construction of the tail feathers, or as BH would say, the end-spinach. Have a grand week-end, and thanx for your thoughts. Don Cooley ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:10 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet building at Sun 'n Fun / was: McCormick Lumber --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Pardon my ignorance, but what's this about a Piet wing to be built at Sun 'n Fun? I'll be working the metal shaping tent. Hopefully it isn't too far to the woodworking tent from there. Jim Ash At 4/8/2004 11:15 PM -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com > >I met Dick Navratil at McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just after noon >today--helped him pick out four sticks of spruce for spars on the Piet >wing that will be built at Sun'N'Fun. Dick was wasting no time as he was >planning to get past Nashville before calling it a day. After picking, >loading a paying he was on the road. >Dick Hartwig >Waunakee, WI >rhartwig11@juno.com > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:20 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet plans at Sun 'n Fun ? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash Speaking of, does anybody here know if I'll be able to pick up a set of plans at Sun 'n Fun? Jim Ash At 4/9/2004 12:51 AM -0400, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > >Pardon my ignorance, but what's this about a Piet wing to be built at Sun >'n Fun? I'll be working the metal shaping tent. Hopefully it isn't too far >to the woodworking tent from there. > >Jim Ash > > >At 4/8/2004 11:15 PM -0500, you wrote: >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com >> >>I met Dick Navratil at McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just after noon >>today--helped him pick out four sticks of spruce for spars on the Piet >>wing that will be built at Sun'N'Fun. Dick was wasting no time as he was >>planning to get past Nashville before calling it a day. After picking, >>loading a paying he was on the road. >>Dick Hartwig >>Waunakee, WI >>rhartwig11@juno.com >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:14 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet cabane dimensions <005301c41dcd$49ccb470$d2a86d44@Desktop> <001f01c41de3$77cd9540$d2a86d44@Desktop> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson According to the F+G, front 21 1/4" on centers and 20 1/4" rear. Ditto on the plan set. But don't forget, some folks are going longer. Clif > > I do not have a set of Piet plans and have a question. What is the > dimension for the front and rear cabanes? I'm trying to figure how much > longer or shorter they are than GN-1 cabanes. > > Thanks! > > DJ Vegh