Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:01 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS) (Clif Dawson)
2. 04:12 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS) (Jim Ash)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: Piet For Sale (At7000ft@aol.com)
4. 06:35 AM - Bendix 20 series Mag (Dick and Marge Gillespie)
5. 06:45 AM - BRS (Michael D Cuy)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-& BRS) (DJ Vegh)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Piet For Sale (John Ford)
8. 07:56 AM - Re: Piet For Sale (John Dilatush)
9. 08:43 AM - Re: Piet For Sale (DJ Vegh)
10. 08:43 AM - BRS (Les Schubert)
11. 09:32 AM - BRS...again (hickpiper@misn.com)
12. 09:45 AM - Re: Piet For Sale (John Ford)
13. 06:19 PM - Re: Piet For Sale (John Dilatush)
14. 07:24 PM - Re: Piet For Sale (DJ Vegh)
15. 07:25 PM - Re: Piet For Sale (Borodent@aol.com)
16. 10:08 PM - Re: Piet For Sale (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-& BRS) |
<03ce01c42d89$25d78fb0$ab31020a@CPQ17340127742>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
I for one, don't plan on using one BUT, I can see
the usefulness since I live where there's a lot more
vertical real estate than flat. It's all covered in 200
foot pointy trees as well. This ain't Kansas, Toto.
http://www.hopeflightfest.com/photos.html
These foothills are an hour's drive from my house.
Clif
PS - Check out the 737 at the bottom of the page.
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
<Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> Give me a break...... When properly flying a Piet, you shouldn't be high
> enough to use a stupid BRS... 40 pounds of excess CRAP. And for pete's
> sake, Just how many Piet's have had in flight structural failures???? AND
> how many will be flying into IFR conditions???
> AND, AND AND???????????????????
> Some people just have way too many thoughts or money and not enough flying
> experience.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-& BRS) |
<03ce01c42d89$25d78fb0$ab31020a@CPQ17340127742>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
This is where I was going. When we moved here, I did some research on local
balloon operators, I found there aren't any. When inquiring why, it's
because of the limited number of places to land. Which of us here with
'enough flying experience', flatlanders or otherwise, hasn't at some point
found themselves over trees and outside gliding range to an emergency
field? The BRS might give me an option I might not otherwise have.
That being said, does anybody know the approximate descent rates one gets
from a properly-deployed BRS? My question is, if I'm going to stick a tree
trunk up my butt, how far is it going to get?
Jim Ash - in the mountains in New Hampshire.
At 4/29/2004 01:00 AM -0700, you wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
>
>I for one, don't plan on using one BUT, I can see
>the usefulness since I live where there's a lot more
>vertical real estate than flat. It's all covered in 200
>foot pointy trees as well. This ain't Kansas, Toto.
>
>http://www.hopeflightfest.com/photos.html
>
>These foothills are an hour's drive from my house.
>
>Clif
>
>PS - Check out the 737 at the bottom of the page.
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
><Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Give me a break...... When properly flying a Piet, you shouldn't be high
> > enough to use a stupid BRS... 40 pounds of excess CRAP. And for pete's
> > sake, Just how many Piet's have had in flight structural failures???? AND
> > how many will be flying into IFR conditions???
> > AND, AND AND???????????????????
> > Some people just have way too many thoughts or money and not enough flying
> > experience.
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Bendix 20 series Mag |
Anybody out there got a Bendix 20 series magneto 10-51360-28 with impulse coupler
and drive gear. (for an A-65 cont.)
Dick Gillespie
Ft. Myers, FL
Message 5
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
gosh-- what a waste of e-mails. I hate to say it but if your Piet has a
structural failure then either you
are an idiot who has flown directly into a level III thunderstorm or you
built it with Elmer's Glue and balsa wood.
(which I would not put past some builders) Just glide the thing into any
400 foot long piece of real estate
and you won't be on the news, you won't have to carry the extra weight, and
you won't be out whatever the
BRS costs. Why don't C-150's, 172's, etc. have chutes then ? I side
with Fred Weaver---the voice of reason.
Mike C.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-& BRS) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Jim,
the descent rate is 23 fps (1380 fpm) Not a gentle touchdown but one that
may only give you a sprained wrist or ankle.
DJ Vegh
N74DV
Mesa, AZ
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan@earthlink.net>
does anybody know the approximate descent rates one gets
> from a properly-deployed BRS? My question is, if I'm going to stick a tree
> trunk up my butt, how far is it going to get?
>
> Jim Ash - in the mountains in New Hampshire.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
I think I'd be inclined to agree with you guys. When I lived in Alaska
I used to hear stories about bush pilots who were seriously considering
getting a pilot's license at some point.. ;) What's the worst thing
that could happen? They could ground you?
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> At7000ft@aol.com Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:31:02 AM >>>
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot
rule.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm not so
sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed and smacked
your plane into someones house.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
=
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Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert <leskarin@telus.net>
1.Well I sure livened up the list. I debated the BRS for over a year until
I ordered it last month.
The determining factor was a Cirus crash in the mountains just west of
hear. Instead of the
usual result of everybody killed in a mountain crash, they all walked away
with minor scratches.
Now I don't plan to cross the mountains in my Piet but there is plenty of
areas around here
where a emergency landing is going to be extremely difficult. A couple of
years ago there was
a engine failure near here and the guy and his daughter were both killed
by the trees they had
no way of avoiding. Sure lots of people survive dead stick landings and I
wouldn't deploy the
BRS if I felt I had another viable option. It is a last resort as you have
then lost control.
One other thing, if you encounter a wind shear and encounter structural
failure, yes it is
probably incompetent flying or maybe bad luck, I just want to survive it.
2. The BRS is not for everyone
3. Yes it costs about $3000.00 but that includes the straps that run down
the cabanes and
under the fuselage. These will be hidden under the fabric and concealed in
some light aluminum
covers that will be installed over the cabanes. It mounts in the center
section of the wing
where a fuel tank would go. As I am tall (6' 4") I am building mine as a
single place. With the
A65 I am going with a 13 gal. cowl mounted aluminum fuel tank.
4.The BRS weighs 26-27 lbs not 40. It is 7 1/4" thick so it does stick a
little out of the top of
the wing but I will reshape the center section to keep the airflow clean
5. Turbines: If you checked out the web site then you can sometimes find
new fresh overhauled
ones on Ebay. It is not a conversion for the faint of heart. This unit is a
twin spool type with six
combustion chambers and a built in governor on the gas generating section.
It will idle on 2
combustion chambers . Lots of issues to deal with and certainly will be
EXPERIEMENTAL!!!!!
I appreciate all the opinions on this site, even the ones that don't agree
with mine, it is what
makes this site so worthwhile.
Les
Message 11
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: hickpiper@misn.com
> I don't want to add fuel to the raging BRS fire, but I can't help but mention
a >thing or two on the subject. And sorry if this falls under "moral high ground"
I'm a hillbilly, and not quite sure what that means.
> I am torn on building the Piet...I've got 3 Corvair engines sitting in the
> garage with the plans on building
> a Corvair powered Pietenpol, but 3 years ago I lost my brother to a crash
> (certified aircraft). I don't know that
> I'll ever get to build and fly a Piet, and it's not because I'm afraid, it's
> because I know the feeling of
> getting that phone call in the middle of the night...the sick feeling of
> knowing a loved one is laying in
> mangled wreckage for hours while investigators are poking around taking
> pictures. I don't want anyone
> to go through that. To trust your life, or more importantly, a passengers
> life, to your abilities and the
> assumption that problems are going to occur at an optimum time is
> risky...and I'm not talking about major structural
> failures, I mean any failure. Wasn't it Poplar Piet that went down after the
> passenger pulled the throttle linkage off?
> I know that could have been avoided by better construction, but the bottom
> line is, stuff breaks, and not always at the best time.
> It's true that a BRS would be ineffective at low altitudes, but from what
> I've seen on NTSB reports, quite a few
> Piet crashes under 100 ft have been survived. If I was going down, even that
> low, I would give that handle a yank.
> Might slow you down a split second before impact and be the difference
> between life or death, or getting banged
> up a little vs. spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair.
> I know a BRS takes a little weight, are expensive, and I'm sorry to waste more
bandwidth
> on the subject, but I would take
> all the cussings in the world for being a BRS advocate, and give up
> everything I own to have my brother back...I wouldn't
> bat an eye at $4000. Imagine several years from now...one of the Piets that
> is just photos of wood and hardware on a website
> now, is flying. The pilot is confident enough he can take up a 5 year old
> for their first airplane ride...his parents watch,
> sure that this aircraft must be safe. They have to pass inspections, don't
> they? At 250 ft AGL the crank on the
> engine breaks, the prop comes back, mangling the tail feathers...How much
> would you give for a BRS now?
> I don't mean to be melodramatic, but when you hit the ground, you
> die...forever. If you want to ride it to the ground,
> that's your prerogative...just don't take anyone with you, and don't slam
> those too hard considering a BRS if they have the $.
> If I build, you can bet I'll have one. If my rambling helps pursuade on person
to incorporate one, and it saves one life..it will be worth it.
>
> Jon Jones
> Mo.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Good point. What if he'd be declared nuts for doing something like
that? I wonder where that would go legally? I suppose my base line
assumption would be that if Corky were to apply himself to the side of a
structure via Pietenpol, then there probably wouldn't be enough Corky
left over to worry about it. I can't imagine the damage being very
extensive (to the structure, that is - Corky would not be salvageable),
and it might cause everybody else's insurance to go up $0.00003
annually. There would be a big ruckus over old people flying dangerous
airplanes and the Sport Pilot thing might go away. Oh wait, it's not
here yet and that's why he's in the situation he's in. I don't know,
because it is a complicated set of issues. Nevermind that the chances
of Corky (or me or any of us) levelling a farmer's market with a car are
significantly greater. Ultimately, it's the sort of decision people
make (whether they are aware of it or not) every day. It comes down to
what value a person places on the rule of law, the relevance of law, the
jurisdiction and authority of the laws and who made them, and personal
responsibility. I don't think I'd worry about Corky flying over my
house, because based upon his conversations on this list he seems to be
concerned about safety and operability issues and has some common sense.
I think he'd not fly if he didn't think he would be safe, and without
having met him I believe he is probably able to make that assessment. I
think the only reason he's not flying is out of respect for the folks
who make and administer the laws of this land. He probably doesn't
speed either, for the same reasons. I believe there are many, many
people who aren't as airworthy as Corky who are flying. I hope the
Sport Pilot rule happens before he gets NX41CC sold..
I am looking forward to Brodhead again...
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> djv@imagedv.com Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:44:35 AM >>>
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm
not so sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed
and smacked your plane into someones house.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
==================
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot
rule.
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm not so
sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed and smacked
your plane into someones house.
DJ
DJ,
Who can get insurance (even just liability) on a Pietenpol with an auto engine?
I have tried 3 companies and been turned down for just the reason of using
an auto engine conversion. Might as well, then, not have a license and current
medical either Huh?
Incidentally, I do happen to be legal, but really would not care if I wasn't!
My liability wouldn't change in case of an accident.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
Mark Jones (KR-2 extrordinaire)... or maybe it was Mark Langford... I can't remember
now, posted on the Corvair list a couple weeks back that he was able to
get insurance without difficulty on a Corvair powered KR-2.
It can be done... albeit you pay for it.
I just know that if some dude slammed his homebuilt into my house or my car and
he had no insurance because he wasn't even supposed to be flying, I'd be REALLY
REALLY REALLY ticked off. With the logic of "fly it anyways" why the hell
even bother with a private pilots license?? wanna fly a multi?? hell....don't
spend all that dough on a multi rating... no way man... just fly that twin.
Hey... how about taking up that Lear 45 for a quick spin huh?
of course I'm taking it to the extreme.....also keep in mind I live in a densely
populated area. maybe some back country farmland with not a person or property
within miles may persuade me to think otherwise.
thats my story and I'm stickin to it.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
thats all sweet and fine but then what about liability insurance? I'm not so
sure insurance would cover property damage if you were unlicensed and smacked
your plane into someones house.
DJ
DJ,
Who can get insurance (even just liability) on a Pietenpol with an auto engine?
I have tried 3 companies and been turned down for just the reason of using
an auto engine conversion. Might as well, then, not have a license and current
medical either Huh?
Incidentally, I do happen to be legal, but really would not care if I wasn't!
My liability wouldn't change in case of an accident.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
----- Original Message -----
From: At7000ft@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet For Sale
As John Dilatush (and I) would say, screw the FAA, fly it anyway.
Rick H
Rick, I suspect that he is doing that already! Just won't admit it!
John Dilatush
Am offering NX41CC for sale. Have about given up on the Sport Pilot rule.
This email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by Half
Price Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more information
on an anti-virus email solution, visit .
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com
Corky
If you get ramp checked without the medical, I'd claim that regs dont require
medicals for experimental as they dont for gliders etc.I have heard this from
various
sources- whether it holds up or not -dont know ( I did call EAA to get an
opinion - the expert I talked to thought the idea nuts -- but he wasnt a lawyer
)
Henry Williams (by the way if and when sports pilot goes thru I'll bet it
will be worded like "no medical is required except for the following conditions
1....,2....,3.... And those will be exactly my problems )
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Piet For Sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Not here in Canada. The worst they can do
is fine you $1000 for each individual flight
they can prove you made in the previous
12 months. This is not much of a problem
for some out of the way farm or ranch. The
powers that be pretty much turn a blind eye
unless you do something stupid like flying
into your local airport for gas or flying near
builtup areas etc. One recent incident
resulted in a $250 fine only, but they will
do the nasty if the transgression is serious
enough.
Clif
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
>
> I think I'd be inclined to agree with you guys. When I lived in Alaska
> I used to hear stories about bush pilots who were seriously considering
> getting a pilot's license at some point.. ;) What's the worst thing
> that could happen? They could ground you?
>
> John
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