Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:26 AM - My Piet flies so much better with a passenger (walt evans)
2. 09:07 AM - Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger (hjarrett)
3. 09:25 AM - Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger (Christian Bobka)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger (Christian Bobka)
5. 09:49 AM - Re: Cub brake master cyl - RH (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger (walt evans)
7. 01:29 PM - Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger (walt evans)
8. 01:39 PM - PRE-bumpy to smooth flight (walt evans)
9. 04:27 PM - Re: My Piet flies so much better with a (Jim Ash)
10. 05:21 PM - Re: PRE-bumpy to smooth flight (Eric Williams)
11. 11:55 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much better
with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not just
the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me , it
is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone in
the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like a
standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is this
a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at the
light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you done
a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls? All
the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck stand
up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE CG
MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys measuring
from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original locations
are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group but
I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct" distance
aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much better
with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me ,
it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at the
light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Walt,
There is nothing better than high wing loading to give a good ride in turbulence.
It is jsut like driving a car or flying the DC-9, load them up to gross and
they ride like a Caddy.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much better
with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me ,
it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at the
light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Walt,
How much dihedral in the wing on your ship with the bad ride in turbulence?
Dihedral in excess of what is required can induce a bad ride. If you want, I will
unbury an old post of mine and repost it on the subject.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys measuring
from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group but
I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct" distance
aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
, it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cub brake master cyl - RH |
yep...
my left one is from a TriPacer.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Chris,
In answer to both questions,,,I built with zero dihedral, which has it's drawbacks.
Actually after carefully rigging the wing with all it's struts, didn't take
into account the "tightening everything" factor. So after covering and final
assy and cable tightening, I wound up with about 1/4" negative dihedral. Oh
well.
BUT,,,If I have the right fuel in the nose tank, in still air, I can fly hands
off for miles.
Guess it's the light wing loading. Just imagine if I built a Piet like the one
in Fl. that weighed in at approx 850# empty. It would be typhoon worthy!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Bobka
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Walt,
How much dihedral in the wing on your ship with the bad ride in turbulence?
Dihedral in excess of what is required can induce a bad ride. If you want, I
will unbury an old post of mine and repost it on the subject.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys
measuring from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group
but I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct"
distance aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and
not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
, it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or
is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger |
Hank,
After moving the wing back, my CG does fall in the last inch of the required envelope,
but they are accurate numbers. Guess with light wing loading, this is
the nature of the beast ( like Chris brought up).
The specs for CG, from Bernard are for dimensions on the wing, so in theory, where
ever you put the wing, if the CG is right on the wing,,,the CG is right on
the wing.
And as far as I know,,,the front seat is pretty much at CG. So I think the issue
is more weight than CG?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
What you are describing is typical behavior in an aft CG condition. Have you
done a weight and balance and checked where on the wing chord the CG falls?
All the talk on the group about how many inches aft of the firewall the CG should
be and moving the wing fore and aft makes the hair on the back of my neck
stand up. THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIREWALL AND THE CG!!!!! THE
CG MUST BE IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON THE WING! Sorry to yell but the guys measuring
from the other positions and then don't have the wing in the original
locations are playing with fire. I know this is a touchy topic on the group but
I don't want to hear about one of you getting into a spin and not being able
to recover because your CG was aft of limit on the wing but the "correct" distance
aft of the zero datum, the firewall or the back seam of your aunt Gerties
bloomers. None of them matter if the CG is aft on the wing.
Hank (Let the flames begin) J
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet discussion
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet flies so much better with a passenger
Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so much
better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle thing, and not
just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly improves. With just me
, it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to pivot around me. With someone
in the front, the plane pivots further forward. And is back to climbing like
a standard Cub.
Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or is
this a known in the high time Piet guys?
Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with "stall"
landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
walt evans
NX140DL
Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 8
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| Subject: | PRE-bumpy to smooth flight |
Had to share this. This AM I set up to take off to the south, when my photographer/next
passenger friend came down the driveway. Made one pattern without her
to check the winds. She was over to the left on the tarmac,,,so since it was
early, and no one around, pulled a big "wing" to the left to buzz her, and
then kicked right.
Being the action fotog that she is,,,this is what she got.
Later she brought up the heavy/smooth Piet theory.
walt evans
NX140DL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: My Piet flies so much better with a |
passenger
High-dollar gliders sometimes contain bladders in the wings that can be
filled with water, expressly to increase wing loading. It improves
penetration. Interesting to note that some of them are not rated to land
with all the water they can take off with; there's a dump valve system to
empty it out once the serious flying is over.
Jim Ash
At 5/1/2004 10:25 AM -0400, you wrote:
>Don't know if you guys feel this way too or not , but my Piet flies so
>much better with a passenger in the turbulent midday . It's a subtle
>thing, and not just the extra weight, but the yaw control greatly
>improves. With just me , it is stomach churning, and the plane seems to
>pivot around me. With someone in the front, the plane pivots further
>forward. And is back to climbing like a standard Cub.
>Funny, it's something I wouldn't have imagined. Anyone else see this? Or
>is this a known in the high time Piet guys?
>Guess thats one of the drawbacks to building light. At 595# empty, I'm at
>the light end of the spectrum. If I had a fatter one maybe wouldn't see this.
> Also, thanks to all who responded over the winter to my problems with
> "stall" landings. Put all the advice into play, and found my weakness.
>
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
>Last night was the "Tribute to Harry Chapin" concert in my town,,,,,,Great!
Message 10
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| Subject: | PRE-bumpy to smooth flight |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805@msn.com>
Now THAT is one of the cooler Piet pictures I've seen. Nice airplane too.
(Do not archive)
>From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>To: "piet discussion" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: PRE-bumpy to smooth flight
>Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:39:09 -0400
>
>Had to share this. This AM I set up to take off to the south, when my
>photographer/next passenger friend came down the driveway. Made one
>pattern without her to check the winds. She was over to the left on the
>tarmac,,,so since it was early, and no one around, pulled a big "wing" to
>the left to buzz her, and then kicked right.
>Being the action fotog that she is,,,this is what she got.
>Later she brought up the heavy/smooth Piet theory.
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
><< 700BluePiet.jpg >>
it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
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