---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/09/04: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:47 AM - Re: Re: wing strut static testing (Clif Dawson) 2. 12:56 AM - Re: A nostalgic site WAY off subject (Clif Dawson) 3. 07:44 AM - Re: T-88 (Christian Bobka) 4. 08:10 AM - Re: Costs of Fabric Covering (Jack Phillips) 5. 10:48 AM - "A bad day of flying is better than a good day at work" (walt evans) 6. 12:08 PM - Re: T-88 (Carbarvo@aol.com) 7. 06:22 PM - Re: T-88 (At7000ft@aol.com) 8. 07:05 PM - Re: T-88 - now way, way OT - Dixie Cups, brushing teeth & overpopulation (DJ Vegh) 9. 11:04 PM - Re: T-88 (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:44 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing strut static testing <001301c43567$59748a90$6501a8c0@Nancy> Seeing as how I don't have your addy I'll give you this here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=IMG_0592.jpg&PhotoID=1397 This is the lift distribution of a hershy bar wing across the semispan. You can inject the position of the lift strut and find the lift ( or lack thereof) at the cabane and strut tension etc. Three aspect ratios are charted. 6 is close to ours. Clif Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing strut static testing I'm not redesigning anything but I was interested in doing a static load test (to check those fork ends and welds, you know) on my lift struts and I am curious what loads are acceptable. One way produces about twice the required as the other. Please respond off line. Thanks, Bert (who heads off to the paint shop next weekend) do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:37 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A nostalgic site WAY off subject How about somebody injecting a verse about us airport kids? Ah, those Lancs, Canso's, DC-3's and Fleet 80 Canucks....... Clif PS A couple of Piets too! Thanks Walt, I was fortunate enough to remember those. Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:56 AM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Fred, But Oscar does not brush his teeth. Chris do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Fred Weaver > > Chris.... The small Dixie cups you use for brushing your teeth don't > have the wax. > > On Saturday, May 8, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Christian Bobka wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" > > > > > > "I use plain, small, Dixie-type cups" Oscar said. > > > > I thought that the T-88 instruction say to NOT use Dixie cups as the > > wax in > > them will screw up the epoxy bonding ability. > > > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Oscar Zuniga" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 8:04 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 > > > > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > >> > >> Well, here's a subject I can express an opinion on since my "Flying > >> Squirrel" is wood framed and is assembled with T-88 so I have some > >> experience with it. Living in Oregon when I did all the wood > > construction, > >> my workshop was rarely out of the 50's or 60's and I never had a > >> problem > >> with the T-88 developing full strength and solidifying. As a matter > >> of > >> fact, it was a relief to me to read that this is one of the benefits > >> of > > T-88 > >> (ability to use effectively at lower temperatures). The first time I > > mixed > >> some up I used hypodermics to accurately measure quantities, but that > >> was > >> the only time. From then on I mixed it by eye and again, never had > >> any > >> problems with joints developing full strength. The ratio is very > > important, > >> but not ultra-critical. > >> > >> My recommendations go along with the others already mentioned: don't > >> clamp > >> too tightly, make sure you get squeeze-out to ensure a full joint, > >> make > > sure > >> your joints are held firmly in place so things don't creep or slide > >> during > >> cure, and when you mix the two parts you should have something the > >> consistency of honey that you spread onto the surfaces to be glued. > >> I use > >> plain, small, Dixie-type cups and plain wood tongue depressors to mix > >> my > >> epoxy. You can pay more for these by ordering them from an aircraft > > supply, > >> but what for? After buying my first lot from one of the suppliers and > > then > >> seeing the very same thing in my local Costco store for 30% less > >> cost, I > >> never went back. > >> > >> I've had to "unglue" or remove things that were glued and cured, and > >> I can > >> say with confidence that (with Douglas fir, anyway) my glue joints > >> were > >> stronger than the wood fibers they were bonded to. > >> > >> Oscar Zuniga > >> San Antonio, TX > >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:39 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" I agree Walt. I did the same thing - PolyFiber all the way. Why scrimp and take the chance of having house paint flake off in a couple of years? Yes the PolyFiber products are expensive, but they are the best quality paints I've ever seen, and their support staff is wonderful. Even spending the big bucks for Aerothane, I will have in this project, which has taken me over seven years, the same amount of money (about $14,000) that a two pack a day smoker would spend on cigarettes in the same time frame. Jack Phillips Spraying some of that expensive PolyFiber stuff this morning. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" I used the thin dacron (1.? oz) with Poly Fiber. Second project with Poly Fiber. Wouldn't use anything else. Got the dacron from AS&S ,,the economy stuff for just over $3.00 per running yard. Everyone I talk to , even the old timers tell me that ALL of the dacron comes off one loom. they take the certified stuff off and then make the uncertified stuff. And for the home builder, it's all the same. If you hold the uncertified stuff up to the light, you can see dark lines every once in a while. That's where they join threads. That's no good for certified. But you know darn well that when the Poly Fiber gets into it, it's not going anywhere. As far as the Poly top coats, I did mine right to the manual, and even at $70.00+ per gallon of the non reds, I did my Piet for lots less than $500.00 I couldn't see putting house paint on a project that I put my life into for years. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Costs of Fabric Covering > OK...I am going to throw this out there. Please hold the wolves back from attacking me for beating a dead horse. > > I am attaching a picture of a very nice little airplane. It was built by Hank Stynes in Texas. On Tuesday, Max Davis met me and my wife in Grandview TX. We drove out to Hanks place and had a nice visit looking over his nice Piet. Since Max and I are both near ready for fabric, we got into a discussion about fabric finishing. Ol' Hank (his hangar sign actually reads O'FART's HANGAR) talked with us about his fabric job and relayed some of his difficulties. I was never really clear on what he had used on his Piet, but he was not happy with the finish. If he had it to do over again, he swears that he would use spar varnish for clear penetration coat on ceconite... Then mix varnish with silver powder for UV resistance. Then use house paint for color finishing. > > Now I have already purchased 2.7 oz. fabric for my fuselage and tail. I have been planning to go with the Poly Fiber process all the way through because I am familiar with it, because I am confident I can achieve a nice finish, because it is repairable and durable. But I understand that I am in for quite a bit of $$ by the time I am through. Does anyone have a TOTAL cost for the a complete Piet job with Poly-Fiber? > > I am all for finding cheaper alternatives. But I am a skeptic when it comes to departing from the tried-and-true methods. I have seen Bob Siebert's Latex paint and it is beautiful. But I have often wondered how it will look five years down the road. So I am writing this looking for some hard FACTS about the pros and cons of various finishes that have been done. I want to hear from people who have used Latex or other finishing products. I want to hear how good or bad it has weathered the elements over time...how easy or difficult it is to repair and blend. What about hangar rash, gasoline spills, patching, fading, etc... > > Somebody out there convince me that theres a cheaper and equal or better alternative to the STCd fabric finishing systems. Otherwise.... I am sticking with the PF process and my wallet will suffer the consequences. > > Max...I know you're lurking out there and am sure you are interested in this too. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:50 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A bad day of flying is better than a good day at work" Even though the skies were overcast and dreary, I got in one trip around the valley. The trip was even good for a free airplane rinse. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:00 PM PST US From: Carbarvo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 I go to a Pharmacy Supply Store and buy little calibrated clear plastic cups...Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:47 PM PST US From: At7000ft@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Sorry to be off topic but why would someone need a Dixie cup to brush their teeth? Chris.... The small Dixie cups you use for brushing your teeth don't have the wax. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:00 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 - now way, way OT - Dixie Cups, brushing teeth & overpopulation your supposed to fill it with water and use it to rinse with when done. It helps to conserve the water as most people leave the water running through the brush/rinse phases. at least that's what the county tells us out here in the ultra-dry desert where we only have a limited supply of water, yet 7,000 people move here every month... yes... I said 7,000. I wish all these new people would just go away.... but thats another story. This is like 6 degrees of Piet. T-88 connects to Dixie Cups connects to water conservation connects to Maricopa county growth rate connects to DJ Vegh's ire for newcomers to The Valley of the Sun. DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ----- Original Message ----- From: At7000ft@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 6:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Sorry to be off topic but why would someone need a Dixie cup to brush their teeth? Chris.... The small Dixie cups you use for brushing your teeth don't have the wax. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:11 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 I use a brush myself. Clif, still working on my trailer spring tailwheel assy. and whistling dixie. :-) :-) Sorry to be off topic but why would someone need a Dixie cup to brush their teeth?