---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/25/04: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:01 AM - Re: Trailing Edge (Barry Davis) 2. 11:44 AM - Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? (Prange Larry J PSNS) 3. 01:09 PM - UK version of Brodhead (Christian Bobka) 4. 06:12 PM - Strut testing (Bert Conoly) 5. 07:56 PM - Re: FORD A Weight (Rcaprd@aol.com) 6. 08:01 PM - Re: Trailing Edge (Rcaprd@aol.com) 7. 08:14 PM - Re: Trailing Edge (Jim Markle) 8. 08:25 PM - Re: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? (Rcaprd@aol.com) 9. 08:41 PM - Re: Trailing Edge (DJ Vegh) 10. 09:13 PM - Re: C of G with A65 (Rcaprd@aol.com) 11. 10:07 PM - Moving from Benton (Rcaprd@aol.com) 12. 10:16 PM - Re: C of G with A65 (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:28 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge We used gutter coil from our local gutter person. We bent it to match other trailing edge profiles. This is not a very good pic and can take a better one if you need it. Be sure to sand with rough sandpaper each spot it is epoxied onto the rib. We did not use nails, because the fabric will hold it place later. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hodgson, Mark O" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" > Curious if anyone using aluminum TE's has > a photo of how they did it because I've scoured the archives for a > picture reference without luck, even though there are lots of pro's and > con's discussed re: aluminum TE's. > > Thanks, > > Mark Hodgson > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:37 AM PST US From: Prange Larry J PSNS Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J PSNS Don, Thanks for your comments! My A also gets 1650 RPM static, wide open. I was trying to get a good baseline to work from before I make any changes from stock. I would do it the correct way, in the air, but my Piet is not covered yet. I have purchased a Weber progressive two barrel carb and manifold kit from Snyder's Antique Auto Parts. I am interested in monitoring the change. The only drag is that I will have to modify my four-into-one exhaust system because of the new intake manifold's shape. In Ron Kelly's dyno testing of the A engine, ( http://users.aol.com/gmaclaren/dyno.html ) he finds that giving the A better respiration is the most effective and direct means to get a little more umph out of it. Also in Mr. Kelly's article, I found the results of spark plug testing to be very surprising. "A plug is a plug is a plug. Right?" Not! Larry Prange nx1929a Time: 05:56:43 PM PST US From: Waytogopiet@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? Larry, After much effort to get my 'A' adjusted, it now runs quite well. I have nothing against which to compare it but I recently ran it for a full five minutes at full throttle (static), then closed the throttle quickly, followed by a quick move back to full throttle. It had started on the first pull and ran smoothly in all modes and did not hesitate at all through the throttle changes. It registered just a bit over 1650 RPM at full throttle and idled at about 500 RPM. It is stock throughout. Original head and manifold, Zenith model B carb and babbit bearings. Timing set at 27 degrees BTC Total time to date 22 hours (mostly fighting the original carburetor and timing problems). I won't be running it again until I start taxi tests ( hopefully in the next couple of weeks) I'm comfortable with flying it as it now sits. Hope this helps. Don Hicks ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:29 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: UK version of Brodhead Guys, Here is a picutre of the UK Brodhead this past weekend. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Shenton Subject: Re: Trip to UK Hi Chris, Sounds like you guys are going to be very busy! It's currently light till 9.00 pm so I guess it will be about the same during the early part of July. I think you'll need all the daylight hours available! I will be at the PFA Rally on the sunday with Steve and the Corvair. We will be on the pietenpol stand. I have attached a pic of Alan's camper next to a Model A form our meet on Sunday. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: Paul Shenton Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:03 AM Subject: Re: Trip to UK Paul, Indeed the July 4 display at Shuttleworth is on the calendar as we will be guests of Roy Nerou who will be having Ron Millinship flying one of his Chiltons at the display. I was not originally planning on making the trip that early in the month but Roy insisted I come for the July 4 display. Alan James has agreed to put us up for a night or two and to give us each a ride in G-BUCO. He says that Hendon is an easy train ride into London for us from his place so that is where we will stage from for that outing. Things are shaping up! That time of year, what is the useable daylight at your lattitude? Chris ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:11 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Strut testing --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" I figured out a really easy way to pre-load (test) your struts and cabane struts if you just want that warm fuzzy feeling that your wings won't fold up due to bad welds, bad fork ends, or old tubing. It only requires some tie down straps, screw drivers, a six foot 2x4, and a cooperative tree. No scales, weights, or anything. Might want to use a crash helmet though. It lets you static load test a member to whatever your heart desires - only depends on how big of a 2 x 4 you have. - using leverage. I tested my rear struts to 770 pounds and my front struts to 1032 pounds. Worked great. Its on the first page of my website at the bottom BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:05 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FORD A Weight --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 5/24/04 9:40:24 AM Central Daylight Time, steamlaunch@softhome.net writes: << CAn anyone comment on the weight of a ford A or B instalation with and without the cooling system.... WHat size prop does it swing? >> Matt, I think the Ford Model A engine weighs about 225 to 230 lbs. Add the cooling system and coolant to that. I had a homebuilt 74 X 48 prop, but I think it was too much prop. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:56 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 5/24/04 9:47:41 AM Central Daylight Time, mhodgson@bu.edu writes: << Curious if anyone using aluminum TE's has a photo of how they did it >> Mark, The trailing edge of my Pietenpol is a magnet for knocking my iron head on. If I had a nickel for every knot that thing put on my head, I would be a rich man !! My concern would be if the aluminum trailing edge would be dented by any of the 'Bonks' that thing incurs. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:13 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" > > Mark, > The trailing edge of my Pietenpol is a magnet for knocking my iron head on. > If I had a nickel for every knot that thing put on my head, I would be a rich > man !! My concern would be if the aluminum trailing edge would be dented by > any of the 'Bonks' that thing incurs. > Not to mention bird strikes....... > Chuck G. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:21 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford/Piet Static RPMs? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 5/24/04 7:57:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Waytogopiet@aol.com writes: << It had started on the first pull and ran smoothly in all modes and did not hesitate at all through the throttle changes. It registered just a bit over 1650 RPM at full throttle and idled at about 500 RPM. It is stock throughout. Original head and manifold, Zenith model B carb and babbit bearings. Timing set at 27 degrees BTC >> Larry, Mine was very similar to Don's, except I had a bit more prop (74 X 48). My Tach reads a little low, so I think I was getting something just over 1700 rpm static. I changed the plugs several times (Champion W16Y set at .018" to .020" gap). I had a Wico mag in the beginning, then altered the bracket to accept a Slick mag. Ran fine on the ground, and holding the tail up in the air, but on short final if I pull power to idle, the engine would quit. That happened 3 times. Changing the mag did not help. I got to where I would leave in just a tiny bit of power to land, then pull power to idle just at the end of the flair. It never quit when I did that. I had that carb apart quite a few times, comparing jet size, adjust float setting, inspecting, and so fourth, but I never did get all those gremlins out of that Model B carb. I have the jet sizes stored on my computer, if anyone is interested. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:14 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > My concern would be if the aluminum trailing edge would be dented > by any of the 'Bonks' that thing incurs. > > > Not to mention bird strikes....... Now that was FUNNY! :) DJ Vegh N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:50 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C of G with A65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 5/24/04 9:40:07 PM Central Daylight Time, leskarin@telus.net writes: << It seems that moving the wing back is going to make getting in and out all the more difficult. >> Les, I began taxi test my plane - no brakes / tail skid - with the wing 1" aft of vertical, and with forward stick, add power, full rudder, I could almost change direction 180, and pivot on the wing tip, in the grass. Ground handling was suprisingly very good, without brakes, and with a tail skid. However, with the tail skid I had much less directional control on hard surface, especially with a cross wind. I re-checked the C. of G. and moved the wing back to 3.5" aft of vertical, and it caused the turning circle to be noticably wider...probably because of the added weight on the tail skid. As far as getting in and out, it didn't make any difference, because I still had to slide my back across the bottom of the wing, no matter what position the wing was in. As far as extending the nose, it is said that it is more difficult to bring it out of a slip...which makes sense. However, for my experience, I have found that the rudder is very effective at bringing 'er out of a slip...no problem. I usually slip it in on final, maintain 60 mph indicated, (don't want to get slow in this configuration, or it will spin) and less than 1000 rpm on the ol' Continental. Practice slips at altitude in your practice area, before attempting it on final, and do so just a very little bit at a time. In a slip, the windshield blocks only a small portion of the relative wind, and it can be a bit distracting having all that wind in the face. This is the only time I have to noticably hold forward stick to maintain airspeed. The ball is all the way off to the side. The decent rate is very high, but it is good standard procedure, because I can maintain plenty of altitude in the pattern, should that big fan stop blowing, I could still make the field. Bring 'er out of the slip, just before making the numbers (or if the engine quits), pull power to idle and she slows down quite rapidly as I round out. Closer and closer to the ground, keep aft stick, ASI passes down through 40 mph indicated, wind noise diminishing, hold 'er off...hold 'er off, inches to go, hold 'er off, if needed keep the upwind wing a little low, then usually the tail touches just before the mains. I can usually grease 'er on, with a short roll out, 3 out of 5 landings, and boy does it feel good !! However, it's usually when no one is watching...at least they say they weren't watching... Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:58 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Moving from Benton --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Well, I guess I'm just in the mood to type tonight !! I'm moving my plane from Benton to Cook Airfield. The first thing the new owners of the airport want to do, is tear down the old row of hangers that I am in, to make way for new 'Nested Tee' hangers. I have been constantly cleaning bird crap off the plane, and digging nests out the cowling. They can build a nest quicker than a New York Minute. At first, they would just collect up all the stuff I tore out the day before. I was hoping they would just give up, and find another location...NOT !! Now, I thought I would outsmart them, and take the stuff out around the side, and crunch it all up. I guess they were watching what I did with it...next day...more bird nest. It's been getting to be like 'I can feel you watching me'... I flew down to Cook Airfield on Sunday evening, about 8 miles S SW of Benton. Flight of two, with Doug Bryant and his Corbin Baby Ace. They regularly jump out of perfectly good airplanes down there, about 3 times a week, so ya gotta watch out so you don't splat one of the jumpers all over the windshield. I think it might be a good move, because it will be a hanger with modern stuff, like doors, and electric. No birds allowed !! It was the first landing I made there on turf runway 01, which is about 40' wide, and 1600' long. Hay growing on either side. Nobody mentioned it was a downhill runway. I kept rolling, and rolling, end of the runway coming up, and I had to zig then zag to get 'er slowed down to maybe 100' before the cones at the end of the runway. Met some of the locals, posed for some pictures, checked out the hanger, concrete floor, sliding doors, some junk laying around but I think with some TLC it would make a good home for the ol' Piet. The winds were light and variable, so we departed uphill on runway 19. Doug took off first, then I back taxi and did my run-up, and then added in full power. Normal take off roll, tail comes up and I can see the guys with the camera on the right side of the runway, then this old fella decides to walk across the runway in front of me !! I'm almost to Vr, and here he comes!! I left the power in, and ya should have seen that little chubby guy run !! I'll bet it's the first time he ran in about 20 years !! Came back around for a low pass for the camera, then wiggle the wings on the next downwind. Doug & I flew around for over an hour, enjoying the beautiful weather and new scenery. He is very conservative when in formation, and doesn't like to be in very close. Sure was a great evening to fly !! Anyway, I think I'm going to like it down at Cook. They have some Federal Money to re-surface the hard surface runway, in July. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:31 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C of G with A65 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Chuck, Hold that stick all the way back on roll out! Don't get lazy! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C of G with A65 > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 5/24/04 9:40:07 PM Central Daylight Time, > leskarin@telus.net writes: > > << It seems that moving the wing back is going to make getting in and out all > the more difficult. >> > > Les, > I began taxi test my plane - no brakes / tail skid - with the wing 1" aft > of vertical, and with forward stick, add power, full rudder, I could almost > change direction 180, and pivot on the wing tip, in the grass. Ground > handling was suprisingly very good, without brakes, and with a tail skid. However, > with the tail skid I had much less directional control on hard surface, > especially with a cross wind. I re-checked the C. of G. and moved the wing back to > 3.5" aft of vertical, and it caused the turning circle to be noticably > wider...probably because of the added weight on the tail skid. > As far as getting in and out, it didn't make any difference, because I > still had to slide my back across the bottom of the wing, no matter what > position the wing was in. > As far as extending the nose, it is said that it is more difficult to > bring it out of a slip...which makes sense. However, for my experience, I have > found that the rudder is very effective at bringing 'er out of a slip...no > problem. I usually slip it in on final, maintain 60 mph indicated, (don't want to > get slow in this configuration, or it will spin) and less than 1000 rpm on > the ol' Continental. Practice slips at altitude in your practice area, before > attempting it on final, and do so just a very little bit at a time. In a slip, > the windshield blocks only a small portion of the relative wind, and it can be > a bit distracting having all that wind in the face. This is the only time I > have to noticably hold forward stick to maintain airspeed. The ball is all > the way off to the side. The decent rate is very high, but it is good standard > procedure, because I can maintain plenty of altitude in the pattern, should > that big fan stop blowing, I could still make the field. Bring 'er out of the > slip, just before making the numbers (or if the engine quits), pull power to > idle and she slows down quite rapidly as I round out. Closer and closer to the > ground, keep aft stick, ASI passes down through 40 mph indicated, wind noise > diminishing, hold 'er off...hold 'er off, inches to go, hold 'er off, if needed > keep the upwind wing a little low, then usually the tail touches just before > the mains. I can usually grease 'er on, with a short roll out, 3 out of 5 > landings, and boy does it feel good !! However, it's usually when no one is > watching...at least they say they weren't watching... > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > >