Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Ohio Corvair College (Kip and Beth Gardner)
2. 05:36 AM - Stromberg carb problems (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 06:18 AM - Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Michael D Cuy)
4. 08:13 AM - Re: Lift strut question (Borodent@aol.com)
5. 08:26 AM - Re: Lift strut question (Cinda Gadd)
6. 08:27 AM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (TomTravis@aol.com)
7. 08:31 AM - diagonal cabane struts (Michael D Cuy)
8. 09:33 AM - Alternate Woods-Update (ANNCARLEK@aol.com)
9. 07:05 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Christian Bobka)
10. 09:06 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 09:46 PM - 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award (Doc Mosher)
Message 1
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Subject: | Ohio Corvair College |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
Hi Everyone,
We are in the final stages of preparing for the Corvair College, June
18-20, in Alliance, OH. I recently sent information to people who
had contacted me, but some of the e-mail addresses were bad.
So, would the following 'listers' please contact me off-list so I can
send you this information.
Gary Bell - Delaware Ohio
Derek Hulbig - Toronto
Norm Decou - Windsor, Ontario
Thanks very much!
Kip Gardner, EAA Chapter 82, Alliance, OH
--
North Canton, OH
Message 2
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Subject: | Stromberg carb problems |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Mike King in Dallas:
If you want to consult with someone on the phone, or get your carb in the
shop to have an A&P do the work, try Deanie Montgomery in Corsicana, TX.
His outfit is called Anxiety Air and the phone number is (903) 874-3714. He
did a complete overhaul on my NAS3 core, including conversion to the new
Delrin-tipped needle. At the very least, he can talk to you over the phone
about your problem and it won't cost you anything.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 3
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Subject: | Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered
Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the
oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a
corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to
insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed
with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft
by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home.
I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are
higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the
oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil
pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument
capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error.
My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced
in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts
? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the
problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw
this out to the group for some grist.
thanks !
Mike C.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Lift strut question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com
My question to the group is:
If you use the hard ( cabane strut type - or - rod and fittings ) from the
top engine mounts back to the top of the front cabane struts, doesnt this give
the needed rigidity so that you can do away with the right hand side X cables?
Henry Williams
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Lift strut question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
Henry,
Yes.
Some guys do the X cables till they get the wing position, CG where they
want it, than change to the hard cabane type after they know how long to
make them.
Skip
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com
>
> My question to the group is:
> If you use the hard ( cabane strut type - or - rod and fittings ) from
the
> top engine mounts back to the top of the front cabane struts, doesnt this
give
> the needed rigidity so that you can do away with the right hand side X
cables?
> Henry Williams
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question |
Mike,
I had a similar problem with my Bonanza last year. The oil temp started
running high. I did everything I could think of and decided to fly it a few miles
south to the best shop around Dallas. The engine began to run rough on descent
and failed on landing. A wrist pin had worked it's way up against a cylinder
wall and made so much metal that it clogged the oil fliter. The engine was
junk.
The engine had 364 hours since one of those high-dollar blueprinted overhauls
by Ultimate Engines of Mena, Arkansas. The good news was I had a "520 hour
unlimited warrranty". The bad news was new owners had bought the assets but not
the liabilities of the old owners of Ultimate and refused to even discuss a
warranty claim. I had to pay for another overhaul but you can bet it wasn't from
Ultimate Engines.
Tom Travis
Message 7
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Subject: | diagonal cabane struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Henry--- you got it right. You don't need the X-cables on the right side
of the front cockpit if you use rigid steel (tubular or streamlined)
diagonals between the upper longeron/motor mount fittings and the tops of
the front cabanes.
Mike C.
Message 8
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Subject: | Alternate Woods-Update |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com
The wings have really been a pleasure to work on, even if there is a
multitude of parts. I built the tailfeathers first, then the fuse, then the Center
Section, finally the wings. Maybe if I built another Piet, I would do the wings
at the beginning.
We have a 35 Piet on the airport, which is non-flyable, but interesting. It
has a two-piece wing, which I am beginning to think is superior to the Vi
Kapler design, since the aileron control cables can be run directly to each wing.
Im still a little bit perplexed about how one connects the control cables
through the Center Section in such a way that they can be easily re-connected.
Im amazed at the difference the drag and anti-drag wires make to the
rigidity of the wing. I put in some temporary hardware store wires to stiffen the
wing while finishing it.
The fellow next to me is building a scaled Jenny, and has installed 3/32
cables for the drag and anti-drag braces. He uses Cable Bushings rather than
turnbuckles, twisting the cable to achieve the correct tension, after pulling the
cable tightly around the Bushing. It is easy to adjust the tension, each half
twist tightening the cable by about ten pounds. His spec. calls for 35#
tension, a figure I think that I will use. I made a set of turnbuckles early on,
so
cost is not a factor, rather the weight saving and simpler hardware seems to
me to be worthwhile.
I bought the folded trailing edge at AS&S. Planning to clean the aluminum
carefully, then to Epoxy the T.E. to the ends of the ribs with T-88.
Looking forward to meeting again andtalking with all of you at Brodhead this
year.
Carl L @ Compton Airport.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka@charter.net>
Mike,
You never should have the need to shim the relief valve so forget about
that. That is not a cure. The problem you indicate is one of excessive
clearances within the engine. The excess clearance allows oil in when,
let's say a conrod is going down the barrel and then it compresses the oil
in the same space as the rod is going up the barrel. This compresses the
oil and compression heats. That is why the oil heats up. As the oil heats
up, the viscosity drops, which causes more friction elsewhere which causes
the oil to thin out even more, etc. My first guess is that there is an
imminent conrod failure due to a bearing that is failing. Excessive
clearance due to a bearing failure also allows an internal oil leak of great
magnitude which reults in zero oil pressure. Zero oil pressure cuases other
bearings to fail. Remember, this is the symptom. The real question now is
why the rod bearing or whatever is failing?
I have said it once or more times before or more on this list that another
point of failure in these engine is the from cam journal where oil passes
from the left oil gallery across an annulus in the front cam journal to the
right oil gallery. It is common that there is excessive wear here due to
too little bearing surface area for the loads imposed. The oil leaks out of
the oil system at his point excessively, causing low or no oil pressure and
excessive compression causes heating of the oil as the valve springs force
the cam to and fro. Unfortunately for us, the case aluminum is the bearing
material for the cam and the excessive wear at this journal mandates
expensive solutions.
One is to line bore the case for oversize cam journals and then buy a
replacement cam with OS journals. Big $$. Another fix for an experimental
is to have a known good cam's journals plated oversize with hard chrome and
then ground for trueness to an OS to match the case which has been linebored
to cleanup the mess at the front journal. Another fix is another case but,
how do you know the other case is good? It might have the same problem. It
is very difficult to measure the fron cam journal because it is virtually
inaccessible when the case halves are together which is the condition
required for measurement.
Let me know what you find.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered
> Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the
> oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a
> corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to
> insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed
> with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft
> by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home.
>
> I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures
are
> higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim
the
> oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil
> pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument
> capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error.
>
> My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be
replaced
> in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts
> ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the
> problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw
> this out to the group for some grist.
>
> thanks !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 6/9/04 9:05:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
sbobka@charter.net writes:
<< It
is very difficult to measure the fron cam journal because it is virtually
inaccessible when the case halves are together which is the condition
required for measurement. >>
Chris,
Your assessment is right on.
When I assembled my engine, I did a clean and dry fit of the cam and crank
(with new main bearings), using plasti-gage across the journals, assembled and
torqued all hardware, being very careful not to allow the crank or cam to turn,
or it will smear the plasti-gage. Then disassemble, and recorded all the
measurements. I was relieved to find that all clearances were within spec.
Chuck G.
Message 11
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Subject: | 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net>
Well, one of our own guys did it!
Alex Sloan, who is a sometime participant in our little Piet Chat Group,
has been announced as the 2004 recipient of EAA's Tony Bingelis Award. You
can read all about it in the next few weeks in EAA's various publications,
but the gist of the news is that Alex is the man.
Alex lives in Florence, Alabama, and as participants in our little chat
group know, he is building a Piet with a Corvair engine. To quote Tom
Poberezny, "Alex Sloan truly embodies the values of EAA and the legacy
established by Tony Bingelis. He epitomizes volunteerism within the
organization and is consistently willing to share his knowledge and
resources to promote better airplanes, more prepared pilots, and safer
flight. He is an outstanding and most deserving recipient of the Bingelis
Award."
I can go on and embarrass Alex by citing the fact that he became a Tech
Counselor in 1985, a Flight Advisor in 1994, and in 2000 he was named the
first Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council. He has received the
EAA President's Award and EAA's Major Achievement Award in 2001.
He has constructed two RV-model aircraft, and - talk about getting into
building a real homebuilt airplane - is currently building a
Pietenpol. Alex conducts a number of forums at Oshkosh and Lakeland, so a
lot of you guys have met him.
He will receive his proper recognition at AirVenture at the annual
Homebuilder Dinner on July 29. This dinner is usually held at EAA's Nature
Center pavilion.
We all kind of have a personal pride in being a part of the bib overall
Piet group - tailwheels, open cockpits, 75 year old design, etc.
like we are the po' boys. But we are so fortunate to have some really
outstanding individuals (no names here, please, but you know who you are)
in our purposely down home group. Alex is one of the nice guys.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
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