Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 06/09/04


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:44 AM - Ohio Corvair College (Kip and Beth Gardner)
     2. 05:36 AM - Stromberg carb problems (Oscar Zuniga)
     3. 06:18 AM - Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Michael D Cuy)
     4. 08:13 AM - Re: Lift strut question (Borodent@aol.com)
     5. 08:26 AM - Re: Lift strut question (Cinda Gadd)
     6. 08:27 AM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (TomTravis@aol.com)
     7. 08:31 AM - diagonal cabane struts (Michael D Cuy)
     8. 09:33 AM - Alternate Woods-Update (ANNCARLEK@aol.com)
     9. 07:05 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Christian Bobka)
    10. 09:06 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    11. 09:46 PM - 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award (Doc Mosher)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:44:33 AM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Ohio Corvair College
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net> Hi Everyone, We are in the final stages of preparing for the Corvair College, June 18-20, in Alliance, OH. I recently sent information to people who had contacted me, but some of the e-mail addresses were bad. So, would the following 'listers' please contact me off-list so I can send you this information. Gary Bell - Delaware Ohio Derek Hulbig - Toronto Norm Decou - Windsor, Ontario Thanks very much! Kip Gardner, EAA Chapter 82, Alliance, OH -- North Canton, OH


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:36:52 AM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Stromberg carb problems
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Mike King in Dallas: If you want to consult with someone on the phone, or get your carb in the shop to have an A&P do the work, try Deanie Montgomery in Corsicana, TX. His outfit is called Anxiety Air and the phone number is (903) 874-3714. He did a complete overhaul on my NAS3 core, including conversion to the new Delrin-tipped needle. At the very least, he can talk to you over the phone about your problem and it won't cost you anything. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:18:54 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw this out to the group for some grist. thanks ! Mike C.


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:13:39 AM PST US
    From: Borodent@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Lift strut question
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com My question to the group is: If you use the hard ( cabane strut type - or - rod and fittings ) from the top engine mounts back to the top of the front cabane struts, doesnt this give the needed rigidity so that you can do away with the right hand side X cables? Henry Williams


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:26:47 AM PST US
    From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Lift strut question
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net> Henry, Yes. Some guys do the X cables till they get the wing position, CG where they want it, than change to the hard cabane type after they know how long to make them. Skip > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com > > My question to the group is: > If you use the hard ( cabane strut type - or - rod and fittings ) from the > top engine mounts back to the top of the front cabane struts, doesnt this give > the needed rigidity so that you can do away with the right hand side X cables? > Henry Williams


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:27:25 AM PST US
    From: TomTravis@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
    Mike, I had a similar problem with my Bonanza last year. The oil temp started running high. I did everything I could think of and decided to fly it a few miles south to the best shop around Dallas. The engine began to run rough on descent and failed on landing. A wrist pin had worked it's way up against a cylinder wall and made so much metal that it clogged the oil fliter. The engine was junk. The engine had 364 hours since one of those high-dollar blueprinted overhauls by Ultimate Engines of Mena, Arkansas. The good news was I had a "520 hour unlimited warrranty". The bad news was new owners had bought the assets but not the liabilities of the old owners of Ultimate and refused to even discuss a warranty claim. I had to pay for another overhaul but you can bet it wasn't from Ultimate Engines. Tom Travis


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:31:09 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: diagonal cabane struts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Henry--- you got it right. You don't need the X-cables on the right side of the front cockpit if you use rigid steel (tubular or streamlined) diagonals between the upper longeron/motor mount fittings and the tops of the front cabanes. Mike C.


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:33:38 AM PST US
    From: ANNCARLEK@aol.com
    Subject: Alternate Woods-Update
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com The wings have really been a pleasure to work on, even if there is a multitude of parts. I built the tailfeathers first, then the fuse, then the Center Section, finally the wings. Maybe if I built another Piet, I would do the wings at the beginning. We have a 35 Piet on the airport, which is non-flyable, but interesting. It has a two-piece wing, which I am beginning to think is superior to the Vi Kapler design, since the aileron control cables can be run directly to each wing. Im still a little bit perplexed about how one connects the control cables through the Center Section in such a way that they can be easily re-connected. Im amazed at the difference the drag and anti-drag wires make to the rigidity of the wing. I put in some temporary hardware store wires to stiffen the wing while finishing it. The fellow next to me is building a scaled Jenny, and has installed 3/32 cables for the drag and anti-drag braces. He uses Cable Bushings rather than turnbuckles, twisting the cable to achieve the correct tension, after pulling the cable tightly around the Bushing. It is easy to adjust the tension, each half twist tightening the cable by about ten pounds. His spec. calls for 35# tension, a figure I think that I will use. I made a set of turnbuckles early on, so cost is not a factor, rather the weight saving and simpler hardware seems to me to be worthwhile. I bought the folded trailing edge at AS&S. Planning to clean the aluminum carefully, then to Epoxy the T.E. to the ends of the ribs with T-88. Looking forward to meeting again andtalking with all of you at Brodhead this year. Carl L @ Compton Airport.


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:05:17 PM PST US
    From: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka@charter.net> Mike, You never should have the need to shim the relief valve so forget about that. That is not a cure. The problem you indicate is one of excessive clearances within the engine. The excess clearance allows oil in when, let's say a conrod is going down the barrel and then it compresses the oil in the same space as the rod is going up the barrel. This compresses the oil and compression heats. That is why the oil heats up. As the oil heats up, the viscosity drops, which causes more friction elsewhere which causes the oil to thin out even more, etc. My first guess is that there is an imminent conrod failure due to a bearing that is failing. Excessive clearance due to a bearing failure also allows an internal oil leak of great magnitude which reults in zero oil pressure. Zero oil pressure cuases other bearings to fail. Remember, this is the symptom. The real question now is why the rod bearing or whatever is failing? I have said it once or more times before or more on this list that another point of failure in these engine is the from cam journal where oil passes from the left oil gallery across an annulus in the front cam journal to the right oil gallery. It is common that there is excessive wear here due to too little bearing surface area for the loads imposed. The oil leaks out of the oil system at his point excessively, causing low or no oil pressure and excessive compression causes heating of the oil as the valve springs force the cam to and fro. Unfortunately for us, the case aluminum is the bearing material for the cam and the excessive wear at this journal mandates expensive solutions. One is to line bore the case for oversize cam journals and then buy a replacement cam with OS journals. Big $$. Another fix for an experimental is to have a known good cam's journals plated oversize with hard chrome and then ground for trueness to an OS to match the case which has been linebored to cleanup the mess at the front journal. Another fix is another case but, how do you know the other case is good? It might have the same problem. It is very difficult to measure the fron cam journal because it is virtually inaccessible when the case halves are together which is the condition required for measurement. Let me know what you find. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered > Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the > oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a > corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to > insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed > with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft > by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. > > I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are > higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the > oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil > pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument > capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. > > My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced > in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts > ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the > problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw > this out to the group for some grist. > > thanks ! > > Mike C. > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:06:55 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 6/9/04 9:05:52 PM Central Daylight Time, sbobka@charter.net writes: << It is very difficult to measure the fron cam journal because it is virtually inaccessible when the case halves are together which is the condition required for measurement. >> Chris, Your assessment is right on. When I assembled my engine, I did a clean and dry fit of the cam and crank (with new main bearings), using plasti-gage across the journals, assembled and torqued all hardware, being very careful not to allow the crank or cam to turn, or it will smear the plasti-gage. Then disassemble, and recorded all the measurements. I was relieved to find that all clearances were within spec. Chuck G.


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:46:49 PM PST US
    From: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net>
    Subject: 2004 recipient of the Tony Bingelis Award
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Doc Mosher <docshop@tds.net> Well, one of our own guys did it! Alex Sloan, who is a sometime participant in our little Piet Chat Group, has been announced as the 2004 recipient of EAA's Tony Bingelis Award. You can read all about it in the next few weeks in EAA's various publications, but the gist of the news is that Alex is the man. Alex lives in Florence, Alabama, and as participants in our little chat group know, he is building a Piet with a Corvair engine. To quote Tom Poberezny, "Alex Sloan truly embodies the values of EAA and the legacy established by Tony Bingelis. He epitomizes volunteerism within the organization and is consistently willing to share his knowledge and resources to promote better airplanes, more prepared pilots, and safer flight. He is an outstanding and most deserving recipient of the Bingelis Award." I can go on and embarrass Alex by citing the fact that he became a Tech Counselor in 1985, a Flight Advisor in 1994, and in 2000 he was named the first Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council. He has received the EAA President's Award and EAA's Major Achievement Award in 2001. He has constructed two RV-model aircraft, and - talk about getting into building a real homebuilt airplane - is currently building a Pietenpol. Alex conducts a number of forums at Oshkosh and Lakeland, so a lot of you guys have met him. He will receive his proper recognition at AirVenture at the annual Homebuilder Dinner on July 29. This dinner is usually held at EAA's Nature Center pavilion. We all kind of have a personal pride in being a part of the bib overall Piet group - tailwheels, open cockpits, 75 year old design, etc. like we are the po' boys. But we are so fortunate to have some really outstanding individuals (no names here, please, but you know who you are) in our purposely down home group. Alex is one of the nice guys. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA




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