---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/10/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:12 AM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Michael D Cuy) 2. 06:25 AM - Alex Sloan (Michael D Cuy) 3. 12:00 PM - pulleys (CraigAlanCarter@aol.com) 4. 12:15 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Christian Bobka) 5. 12:36 PM - Re: pulleys (walt evans) 6. 01:12 PM - Re: Stromberg Carburetor (Mike King) 7. 02:59 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Thoreson Family) 8. 04:25 PM - Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? (Cory Emberson) 9. 04:53 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Jack Phillips) 10. 05:06 PM - Re: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? (Bert Conoly) 11. 05:21 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Bert Conoly) 12. 05:24 PM - Aghh, so close... () 13. 05:56 PM - Re: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? (Cory Emberson) 14. 06:01 PM - Re: Aghh, so close... (Christian Bobka) 15. 06:04 PM - Re: Stromberg Carburetor (Christian Bobka) 16. 07:55 PM - Re: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question (Graham Hansen) 17. 08:53 PM - Re: Aghh, so close... (Bert Conoly) 18. 09:30 PM - Re: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? (Richard Navratil) 19. 10:42 PM - Re: Aghh, so close... (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:37 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Thanks, Chris for all the good info. Makes sense. So why do I see the 75 year old IA's who work on nothing but small Continentals fussing with shims under the oil pressure relief valve at our local airport ? I'll have to ask them this weekend what they were doing a few times when I saw them in the past doing this. Thanks again, Mike do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:43 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alex Sloan --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Alex--- CONGRATULATIONS, man ! Not only is Alex everything that Doc mentioned but he's an excellent golfer...........and even has people calling him for lessons which cuts into his precious Pietenpol building time:) Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:41 PM PST US From: CraigAlanCarter@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulleys I have finished a beautiful control tube but unfortunately spaced the pulley tabs for phenolic pulleys that will only take 3/32" cable. Looks like I will be doing this part over again like I have done with almost every other part. In ordering new pulleys, I see that there are UHMW plastic pulleys available and wanted to know if these 2" pulleys would be acceptable for the control tube. Searched the archives and couldn't find much discussion specific to this type of pulley. Thanks, Craig Carter ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:32 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" Mike, I don't know what they are doing. I think they might just be trying to limp the thing out the door. I have first hand experience in these matters as discussed in my other email as I was told to shim while the inside of the engine was self destructing.... This knowledge was learned the hard way.... Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > Thanks, Chris for all the good info. Makes sense. > > So why do I see the 75 year old IA's who work on nothing but small > Continentals fussing with shims under > the oil pressure relief valve at our local airport ? I'll have to ask > them this weekend what they were doing > a few times when I saw them in the past doing this. > > Thanks again, > > Mike > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:01 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pulleys Craig, I did the same thing. I got Mr. Dremmel to give me a hand. In two minutes the wrong tabs were off, and I was making new ones. I love my Dremmel tool walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: CraigAlanCarter@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulleys I have finished a beautiful control tube but unfortunately spaced the pulley tabs for phenolic pulleys that will only take 3/32" cable. Looks like I will be doing this part over again like I have done with almost every other part. In ordering new pulleys, I see that there are UHMW plastic pulleys available and wanted to know if these 2" pulleys would be acceptable for the control tube. Searched the archives and couldn't find much discussion specific to this type of pulley. Thanks, Craig Carter ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:28 PM PST US From: "Mike King" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Guys, Just want to let you know your input and advice were greatly appreciated in resolving my malfunctioning Stromberg carburetor. A special thanks to Alex Sloan, Delton Perry, Oscar Zuniga, Jack Phillips, Walt Evans and other knowledgeable Piet and GN-1 enthusiasts for your insight. I just ordered a Stromberg carburetor overhaul kit from Fresno Airparts along with a manual to keep me honest and out of trouble. The old girl should be back in the air in just a few days=85..thanks again to many of you. Have a good day. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas P.S. My 1940 Continental A-80 engine will not see auto gas again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike King Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Walt, Great information. I really appreciate everyone=92s input. I will not again put auto gas in my engine. Now that my health is better, I will be flying my plane more often and will not go through this experience again. I do have a friend who is mechanically inclined. Now I need to get a manual and get started. I tried to find one online but will probably have to order one from a supply shop. Thanks again for all the useful information. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King Group Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don=92t ask why it has not been flown=85..=85 =85that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:28 PM PST US From: Thoreson Family Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Thoreson Family Had the shim thingy done myself on a relatively low time 85 that had low oil press. Seemed to get good results. Roger Do not archive Christian Bobka wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" > >Mike, > >I don't know what they are doing. I think they might just be trying to limp >the thing out the door. I have first hand experience in these matters as >discussed in my other email as I was told to shim while the inside of the >engine was self destructing.... > >This knowledge was learned the hard way.... > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael D Cuy" >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 8:11 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > > > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy >> >> > > > >>Thanks, Chris for all the good info. Makes sense. >> >>So why do I see the 75 year old IA's who work on nothing but small >>Continentals fussing with shims under >>the oil pressure relief valve at our local airport ? I'll have to ask >>them this weekend what they were doing >>a few times when I saw them in the past doing this. >> >>Thanks again, >> >>Mike >> >>do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:06 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory@lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless@earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:48 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Sounds like the problems I had with my Cessna 140. One of the few things I don't like about the small Continentals is that the camshaft bearings are just bored in the aluminum crankcase. When they wear, oil will spray out of those bearings rather than running at high pressure in the oil galleries. My guess is that this is a fairly high time engine, or it sat for a long time and managed to build up some rust pits on the camshaft. Wish I had an answer, short of an overhaul. My answer was to sell the 140 (on a cold day). I agree Mike, I'd try the oil pump gears first, because they are relatively cheap and easy to replace. My bet is that they will have to split the case. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw this out to the group for some grist. thanks ! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:51 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory@lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless@earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:49 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" Jack. I think you're right, it sounds like a tired engine - not dead - just tuckerd out. I don't know... By the time you take the mags off, accessory case off, and all, you could put another days work into it and have the whole thing taken apart to inspect. If it were mine, I'd devote a weekend to pull it down and a couple weeks to inspect those cam bearing surfaces, jugs, as well as followers and lifters. I bought one of those run-out Continentals you find on the internet, and found a serious problem that would have shown up at a most inconvenient time. I took the extra time and fixed it all. I'm glad I did. It cost me another few weeks (I'm slow) and about another K-bill to have an IA lap all the valves , replace a few valves, and hone the cylinders and check em all out. But I did all the disassembly and re-assembly. The problem as we all know, is when you buy an experimental, you really don't know for sure what you're getting. Just my two cents.. Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" > > Sounds like the problems I had with my Cessna 140. One of the few things I > don't like about the small Continentals is that the camshaft bearings are > just bored in the aluminum crankcase. When they wear, oil will spray out of > those bearings rather than running at high pressure in the oil galleries. > My guess is that this is a fairly high time engine, or it sat for a long > time and managed to build up some rust pits on the camshaft. Wish I had an > answer, short of an overhaul. My answer was to sell the 140 (on a cold > day). > > I agree Mike, I'd try the oil pump gears first, because they are relatively > cheap and easy to replace. My bet is that they will have to split the case. > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D > Cuy > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:18 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Group-- Nearby friends tried to ferry an 85 hp. Continental powered > Pietenpol Air Camper home from North Carolina recently and found that the > oil pressure is good on run-up but slowly deteriorates in flight with a > corresponding increase in oil temperature. The oil was changed out to > insure that it was the proper type and grade and the flight was resumed > with the same symptoms. They landed and will be transporting the aircraft > by trailer and then will look into the problem more closely at home. > > I know that generally when the oil is cold and thick that oil pressures are > higher on start-up and taxi than they are in flight. Also you can shim the > oil pressure relief spring/valve to give you varying degrees of oil > pressure, and finally there could be air in the oil pressure-to-instrument > capillary line in addition to possible instrument calibration error. > > My initial gut feeling is that the oil pump gears might have to be replaced > in the accessory case on the back of the engine. What are your thoughts > ? These folks have some competent mechanics who are going to look at the > problem once the plane is back home, but until then I thought I'd throw > this out to the group for some grist. > > thanks ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 141" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! --------------------------------- Cmo uss el correo electrnico? Qu penss del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:27 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Thanks, Bert. You bring up a very good point ... as the complexity of the project is reduced, the more down-to-earth your financing options are. best, Cory Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:27 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Santiago, You might be better off just trimming a few inches off of the span. I am sure that Bernard chose the span as a matter of convenience rather than necessity. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 14=B41" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! =BFC=F3mo us=E1s el correo electr=F3nico? =BFQu=E9 pens=E1s del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu=ED ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:42 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, Many carburetor leak becuase a particular service bulletin has not been complied with, causing the fuel to siphon out of the bowl through one of the jets. You may want to look this one up with precision airmotive as I don't have it offhand. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Guys, Just want to let you know your input and advice were greatly appreciated in resolving my malfunctioning Stromberg carburetor. A special thanks to Alex Sloan, Delton Perry, Oscar Zuniga, Jack Phillips, Walt Evans and other knowledgeable Piet and GN-1 enthusiasts for your insight. I just ordered a Stromberg carburetor overhaul kit from Fresno Airparts along with a manual to keep me honest and out of trouble. The old girl should be back in the air in just a few days...thanks again to many of you. Have a good day. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas P.S. My 1940 Continental A-80 engine will not see auto gas again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike King Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:16 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Walt, Great information. I really appreciate everyone's input. I will not again put auto gas in my engine. Now that my health is better, I will be flying my plane more often and will not go through this experience again. I do have a friend who is mechanically inclined. Now I need to get a manual and get started. I tried to find one online but will probably have to order one from a supply shop. Thanks again for all the useful information. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:02 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Mike, What DJ said about auto gas is on the money. After a few monthes my gascolator gasket AND the gasket on the fuel cap, both started to distort. So I suspect you have the neoprene needle in your carb like I did/do. Get the parts and do it yourself. Only critical points are to document how far any needles are in(count in half turns to fully closed) And you have to shim the float needle seat to get a certain height of fuel in the bowl with a measured column of fuel on the intake. Not hard to do,,,just fasten a piece of clear tubibg to the wall and measure the height of gas in the bowl. If it's too low/high dump it all out, reshim, and try again. Reassemble, replace the zillion safety wires, and you're good to go. If you're not comfortable with it, get the parts and the manual and get a friend whose mechanically inclined. The manual is literally step by step. I did my own and nothing flew off yet : ) My biggest headache with the carb was to set the idle mixture screw. Once on an approach, went to give it fuel from idle, and it coughed, sputtered, and started puking black smoke. Finally got it right. So check what the screw is before taking it apart walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: Pietenpol Discussion Group Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carburetor Hey Gang, I need to call upon your expertise regarding a carburetor that is not just leaking gas, but pouring out. The carburetor is on an Cont. A-80 engine attached to a GN-1. Here is the rest of the story. The plane was last flown two years ago and has been sitting idle in a hanger. (don't ask why it has not been flown.... .that is another story) It had a =BC tank of auto gas and the gas tank switched to the on-position. (another story) Last weekend, the mechanic came out to do an annual. The compression on all four cylinders was between 73-78 over 80. He then tried to start it. After ten tries, the engine fired up and then died. The fuel switch was in the Off position. He tried to start it again but it would not. He then drained all of the old gas and put in $10.00 of Avgas. Again he tried and tried to start it but could not. He pushed it back into the hanger and came out again the next morning. He found the carburetor leaked most of the gas but there was enough to try to start it again. After a few turns of the prop, gas just poured out of the carburetor. He feels the carburetor should be overhauled and bench tested. I went through my paperwork and found the original receipt of the carburetor and saw where the plane builder bought an overhauled and bench checked Stromberg carburetor in 1983 from El Reno Aviation of Oklahoma for $259.00 (includes postage and insurance) I called them this morning and found out they no longer do that kind of work and recommended nearby Martin Inductions Systems. I talked to a Gene Martin who said the car gas probably gummed up the inside works. He said an overhaul would run $350.00. A needle and seat another $200 and a float could run the bill up to $650.00. It would take about a week to ten days for turnaround. I called the previous owner of the plane and he said that being an Experimental, I could carefully take the carburetor apart and clean it. He felt 95% sure it was just gummed up from the car gas and prolonged inactivity. He said carburetor cleaner, Q-tips and a clean cloth should clean it up to working condition. I feel his advice is worth taking however, I do not have a manual for the carburetor as how to do the overhaul. Does anybody in this group have a manual or can scan the procedure to me? Or do you know of a place online where I could go and get this information? Here are the particulars: Stromberg NAS3A1 A18033B-4 I do not know if it has the Neoprene tip, steel or Delrin needle. If I have to fix or replace the carburetor, where is the best place to send it to for repair or to shop for a replacement carburetor. I live in Dallas but will drive anywhere within reason to get this carburetor fixed. Thanks guys for any insight or help you can provide. Mike King GN-1 Dallas ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont. 85 hp low oil pressure question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" Mike, The scenario you describe doesn't sound good. The fact that the oil pressure drops significantly when the engine has warmed up indicates excessive clearances within the engine causing an "internal hemorrhage" when the oil viscosity is reduced by high temperatures. And an elevated oil temperature is a bad sign, as well. Chris Bobka probably has the correct diagnosis of the problem, and it seems an engine overhaul is in the cards. However there is a possibility that the oil pump is badly worn and it is relatively easy to check it out first. But, unless their luck is a lot better than mine, the oil pump may be only part of the problem with excessive clearances existing throughout the engine. If this is the case, it is best to dismantle the engine and overhaul it NOW! Shimming the oil pressure relief valve spring is NOT a cure because, as Chris observed, it involves treating the symptom rather than the cause. Ideally, when all internal clearances are within the manufacturer's specified limits, the oil pressure should hold a fairly steady value, hot engine or cold engine. Sometimes the oil pressure relief valve seating is poor, and this can cause low oil pressure. But it is unlikely the cause of the problem you describe. Typically, the minimum hot idle oil pressure for the small Continentals is 10 psi (stated in their overhaul manuals). Really, this seems to be awfully low because in my experience it indicates a well-worn engine. I taught a high school aircraft maintenance course for 17 years and we used five venerable (and very tired) Continental A65 "practice" engines. They all had large clearances and displayed the same oil pressure problem you describe. But, amazingly, they did run pretty well thus demonstrating what tough little engines they are.We didn't run them too much, or too hard, and they certainly were not fit to fly! Increasing oil temperature accompanied by decreasing oil pressure are clear signs of impending doom! In my opinion, the C85 you are describing is likely due for a complete overhaul. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:52 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Just use your best judgement... you could either a) decrease the 12:1 scarf angle b) add ("scab" on) at the spars near the wing tips whatever amount you need to give you your desired wingspan c) reduce your wingspan Any of those options are OK in my opinion. If it were me, I would reduce the 12:1 scarf angle and scab heavily in the center section. But that's just me! :) Whatever you do will work just fine, I bet BC ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 14=B41" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! =BFC=F3mo us=E1s el correo electr=F3nico? =BFQu=E9 pens=E1s del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu=ED ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:51 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Just to add to Berts post. If you get those annoying checks from the credit card companies, dont use them. If you call the card company they will have a much cheaper rate for doing a direct deposit electronically into your account. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bert Conoly To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Cory If your building a Pietenpol, or similar, a lot of the parts and materials can be purchased with a credit card and paid off at the end of the month or run a balance and pay your interest rate. This is convenient because when you are building a plane, you usually only need a few parts at a time - don't need the whole thing. and can be a very easy way to spread out purchases of a few hundred to thousands over several months. If you want to BUY one, I guess you could do so at a pretty good interest rate. 4 to 8 % maybe. Most credit card companies send those annoying checks about 5 times a month hoping you'll write one. I GUESS you could do THAT.... Pretty good interest rates, I think. I don't have any experience financing kits - I built mine over a period of several years and paid as I went. BC http://bconoly.tripod.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Has Anyone Financed a Pietenpol? Hello! I'm writing an article for Kitplanes magazine about financing for homebuilts. Has anyone had any experience in financing your Pietenpol (or other plane that you've built), and would you care to share that experience? Also, if you've had the experience of financing an already-completed homebuilt, I would love to hear from you as well. By the way, Greg Cardinal's beautiful Air Camper kit is featured in the July issue of Kitplanes (Exteriors and Interiors - page 41-42) - there's a gorgeous picture of the panel that he and Dale Johnson have handcrafted. Thanks so much! If you care to contact me off-list, my email address is cory@lightspeededit.com. My "list" email address is bootless@earthlink.net. Best, Cory Emberson KHWD ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:23 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... <001901c44f67$a2b01110$6501a8c0@Nancy> Welcome to the list Santiago, There is a diagram of the wing load distribution on my pages at mykitplane.com. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoNameIMG_0592.jpg&PhotoID1397 The outer 10% of the wing panel only supports 4.4% 0f the load. The scarf on Don's plans and in the F+G manual show it to be 20-21" long, or about 5/1 angle. So that scarf will take away 10" from each 14' board. That last 10" at the tip is only supporting 1 1/2 to 2% and there are two of them which cuts it in half to 1% per spar. I think a butt joint with a12" long gusset on each side, of 1/8" ply will be more than adequate. The scarf in the middle doesn't take any bending loads. All the loading is supported by the cabane and wing struts. The only reason for the scarf is to provide material for the two bolts joining the two halves. Those will see loads in compression in posative G and tension in negative G. Remember, Bernard was pretty smart. Those two bolts are plenty strong enough. The alternative would be a butt joint with gussets and bolts adding quite a bit of weight for the same job. Your 12/1 slope would take away 12 X 4.75" or 58" from the span. A clipped wing Aircamper?? :-) :-) Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Just use your best judgement... you could either a) decrease the 12:1 scarf angle b) add ("scab" on) at the spars near the wing tips whatever amount you need to give you your desired wingspan c) reduce your wingspan Any of those options are OK in my opinion. If it were me, I would reduce the 12:1 scarf angle and scab heavily in the center section. But that's just me! :) Whatever you do will work just fine, I bet BC Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aghh, so close... Hello. I am new in list and have a lot of questions (I am from Argentina, so, sorry about my english). I just bought Hemlock to start building (that is what we use among others) but it is just 14=B41" long. If I plan to do 3/4" solids spars (one piece wing) with a 1:12 slope, can I just add a plywood on each side of the spar end (filled with hemlock) to extend it to the needed lenght (3" or 4") and attach the wing tip to it? I know it is a compression member, could that be a problem? Should I laminate my spars? What you, experienced people recommend me? thank you very much. Santiago Hi Mike C. I am still enjoying your video!! =BFC=F3mo us=E1s el correo electr=F3nico? =BFQu=E9 pens=E1s del spam y de los virus? Clic aqu=ED