---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/18/04: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:49 AM - Revmaster (rhartwig11@juno.com) 2. 05:32 AM - Re: Using a VW engine in a Pietenpol (baileys) 3. 07:40 AM - Update.....Re: Tour America (Jim Markle) 4. 07:41 AM - Re: Update.....Re: Tour America (Andimaxd@aol.com) 5. 10:08 AM - kirk huizenga (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 6. 07:17 PM - Corky the Sport Pilot (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 08:38 PM - Re: First-time builder (Jake Crause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Revmaster From: rhartwig11@juno.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com >Has anyone out there had any experience with a Revmaster 2100D on a air >camper? David, The short answer is: I have never heard of one. There may be some out there, but I have never heard of a successful direct drive VW engine on a Pietenpol AirCamper. The first problem is that the Pietenpol AirCamper was originally designed for the very heavy Ford Model A engine. Pietenpol also redesigned the AirCamper for the heavy Corvair engine (about the same weight as an O200.) Even with these heavy engines builders find that they have to move the wing back for correct weight and balance. On most VW powered aircraft, you sit between the spars--on the AirCamper you set behind the rear spar. To get the proper CG with a VW you might have to extend the engine mount forward until the plane resembled a P-51/AirCamper or attach a lot of lead to the engine mount. The AirCamper is a slow, "dirty" airplane. Large, slow turning props seem to work best on that type of plane. The KR series of aircraft, designed for the VW engine are fast, light and clean, but those that approach the 1250# gross weight of a Pietenpol are generally marginal in performance when using the large displacement VW's. The trend even in these sleek planes is for builders of heavy KR's to use Corvairs or Continentals. The modern VW engine may put out 75 to 80 HP, but the prop describes a relatively small disk and is turning high RPM's and is therefore not as efficient as a larger, slower turning prop. The net thrust is much less than a Continental of equal HP. You could try using a prop speed reduction drive. That would allow you to have a large slow turning prop and would add the needed weight for Weight and Balance. It might work, but you would also be adding complexity and cost. The Corvair engine costs less, puts out more HP, the "Corvair fuselage" was designed for the engine by Pietenpol and there are a lot of AirCampers flying successfully with that engine. Most Corvairs turn a relatively small prop at a higher RPM than aircraft engines (slower than VW), but there is a lot of horsepower available. ....and not much has to be said for proven aircraft engines like the Continental 65 thru 100HP. There..."I've said my piece." now I'll wait for the "corrections." Dick Hartwig Waunakee, WI ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:49 AM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Using a VW engine in a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "baileys" One other little bit to add to Don Mosher's comments re the VW; Valley Engineering (aka Culver Props) http://www.culverprops.com/ makes a reduction drive for the VW that is as near bullet proof as one can get. Steve Bennett of Great Plains sells it and if it weren't O.K. he would not handle it. I have a friend that has it installed on a 1915cc VW in his Zenith 701. The 701 has almost exactly the same flight profile as a Pietenpol low and slow, high drag, 1100 pound gross weight and it flies very well with the VW. So if you want a big slow turning prop you can do it with the VW by using the redrive. As Don said the Corvair is going to cost less than the VW but if for some reason you want something else (lower fuel burn perhaps or less weight) don't be afraid of the VW. One caveat is that the VW must be cooled properly especially the heads. Take proper care of this and you should have a long running reliable engine. Bob B. - Missouri ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:05 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Update.....Re: Tour America Update:......Just talked to Chuck (at 9:30amCST)...he's in Cushing Oklahoma getting ready to leave there in about 10 minutes....he'll fly directly to Aero Country, I'll meet him there with fuel and he'll then leave for Tick Hill...... JM ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tour America Well, Chuck's almost on his way....on the phone with him now....4:45pm.....he's going to try to do at least a copule hours tonite and finish it off tomorrow morning..... He's running a bit late....he can still make it to Tick Hill tomorrow just without the stop in Plano this evening...oh well.... I figure his timing will be just about right so we can leave home about the time he flys thru the Dallas area tomorrow and get there about the same time (well, I'll probably have to drive a bit UNDER the speed limit but that's ok....) JM ----- Original Message ----- From: BARNSTMR@aol.com To: Rcaprd@aol.com ; Andimaxd@aol.com ; jim_markle@mindspring.com ; pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tour America Dear Gang, Well, ol' Chuck emailed early this morning to say that he was about 2 hours from leaving Wichita for his "Tour America". Who would have ever guessed he'd have a tailwind on his way to Texas. Northers are unheard of for July in Texas. I understand he's aiming for Kitty Hawk airport north of Plano today... then on southward to our place at Tick Hill tomorrow. I heard he may be joined in Plano by Mike King in his GN1 for the trip to Central Texas. We are looking forward to having you, Chuck and others for the big hamburger cookout tomororw evening. Leann already has the good sheets on the fold-out couch for you. On Monday...my father-in-law are planning to escort Chuck in the '39 Taylorcraft for a leg or so on his trip Northeasterly toward Corky's place from here. Wish we could go all the way to Broadhead. Maybe next year. Terry B. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:54 AM PST US From: Andimaxd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Update.....Re: Tour America Who's going to get to tick hill first, you or him? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:44 AM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: kirk huizenga Is Kirk Huizenga still on the Piet list and if so, are you coming to Brodhead or Oshkosh and what of the cowling, do you still have it? Dennis Engelkenjohn ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:05 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corky the Sport Pilot --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Corky; The Sport Pilot "rule" is not quite a rule yet... I know you're kicking yourself, but it ain't over till the fat lady sings (not talking about Marion Blakey, either). I, too, distrust this bunch of "bureaus" as you call them- and until you see it in print, don't go jumping to conclusions. Not that I don't believe the thing will become reality eventually, but it seems to take a while for the FAA to understand even its own rules. Witness the discussions we've had on this very list about local DAR's and inspectors who don't know their own rules, even when you show 'em the book! Now go tell some crusty old FAA salt that you're going to go fly your airplane using only your valid driver's license, and see what he says! But hey, I'll gladly sell you NX41CC back, same price, same condition- anytime. You are a gentleman and a man of your word, and I want no ill feelings if you're having second thoughts. If you're just grousing in general (as I'm sure you are), I know why it is: your family quack (er, doctor) told you to swear off the Wild Turkey and branch water, and you don't have anything to take the edge off things anymore! I'm sitting here sipping some wine after enjoying some grilled amberjack (freshly caught in the Gulf) with rice, and wonder if I wouldn't be grousing too, if all I had to sip was water. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:14 PM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First-time builder I had quite the enjoyable experience today and I would like to publicly thank Don Hicks for spending 5 hours out of his day to give me a crash course on what it takes to build an Aircamper. He patiently took me through the ins, outs, pros and cons of building the Piet and also gave me the opportunity to drool over his nearly finished Model A powered beauty. Thanks Don for the great hospitality and education. Thanks to all of you who emailed me off and on-list with great info and pointed me in directions I didn't know existed. It was those emails and Don's hospitality that made my decision to purchase the plans, glider manual, and Mike's video this evening a very easy one. Not only is the Piet a great looking and, reportedly, flying aircraft, it's got one of the best group of builders I've seen. Thanks again. Sincerely, Jake Crause