Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:43 AM - Re: Question about heritage (Larry Nelson)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: Trig help... (Michael Conkling)
3. 09:17 AM - Re: Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt (DJ Vegh)
4. 09:19 AM - Gussets? (Stacy Clark)
5. 10:11 AM - Wing ribs - 2 questions (Jake Crause)
6. 10:37 AM - Re: Gussets? (walt evans)
7. 11:34 AM - Re: Gussets? ()
8. 11:54 AM - Re: Question about heritage ()
9. 12:14 PM - Re: Question about heritage (walt evans)
10. 01:48 PM - Re: Where do I get the spruce? (At7000ft@aol.com)
11. 03:13 PM - Re: Where do I get the spruce? (Ron Hargrove)
12. 05:58 PM - Re: Question about heritage (KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com)
13. 07:45 PM - Re: Question about heritage (James Dallas)
14. 08:12 PM - question about heritage (Richard Navratil)
15. 08:25 PM - Re: question about heritage (James Dallas)
16. 08:36 PM - Re: question about heritage (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the way to
OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a Model A buff.
I am going to ask the absurd question now. Having
attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he suggested that
if you change the design, it ain't a Pietenpol....he
then went through all of his changes he made. We
talked to him and he laughed and acknowledged that
right away. I agree with him. So now, I ask, when I
was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they welcome at
Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have another
friend, building a corvair Grega. I like the C 65's.
What is the feeling of plans modifications. Would hate
to fly up there and have to hide in the trees. <vbg>
My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got to ride in
two of the Continental planes, one of which was Chucks
from Kansas.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trig help... |
Or.... figure that 1" rise in 57" equals 1 degree -- this works up to 10
degrees (10 " rise in 57") with 1/2% error (you would need to add a bit less
than a 1/16 (.05") to your 10" to get closer to 10 degrees).
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trig help...
I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share a great site
I found a while back.
I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to know the
exact angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this site makes quick work
of it.
Go here:
http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm and
there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make the numbers quick
and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and if you know what THAT is, you're
an older antique than myself!)
I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 degrees of
dihedral so they would have an inch or so at the wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2
degrees at (approx) 161" gives a bit more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't
really matter at this point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy
check of the numbers!
Jim in Plano
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt |
shirt looks great Sterling! can't wait to get mine.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Whaley
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Your Own Pietenpol Tee Shirt
This is the link I got to work...
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID210
http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/photoAlbumManager.cfm?AlbumID210
The link above goes to a shirt worn by a few elite folks at Brodhead, mainly
Doc, who looked rather dapper in his new BYOP shirt. (Also, I hope to have the
website WWW.BYOP.US up and running soon if I can ever figure this internet
hosting & design stuff out. Don't hold your breath.)
Message 4
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My spruce for the modernized Piet has finally arrived up here in Bethel, AK and
I'll be laying up the jigs over the next week or so. At the time I ordered 1/8"
90 degree birch for the gussets. I now wonder if I should have ordered 45
degree. Any problem using 90 degree vs. 45 degree? If so, could I cut the plywood
on the bias and in effect create 45*/45* gussets (ply-wise that is).
Second question. I read a post that scared me yesterday. The person asked if
the spars were different on the 3-pc vs. 1-pc wing. I bought Charle's 1-pc rib
set (I was thinking weight at the time). I'm now going with the three piece.
I don't have the plans in front of me today. Please tell me I haven't screwed
up big time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 5
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| Subject: | Wing ribs - 2 questions |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" <admin@homebuiltairplanes.com>
I've been looking over the plans while designing my rib jig and I came
up with a couple of questions.
1. On drawing #5 the wing rib is shown without vertical braces
hugging the spar (not sure what these are called). On the full size
wing rib drawing I received from Don the rib has a single vertical brace
hugging the inside of each spar. What is the collective wisdom that has
been accumulated over the years on those braces. The idea of dual
vertical braces hugging the inside and outside of each spar gives me the
warmest fuzzy of all but I do not want to add too much weight or
transfer stresses where they do not belong.
2. How does the airfoil shape of the original plans compare with the
shape of the full size rib template provided by Don? I seem to remember
reading somewhere there was a discrepancy in the shape. Mine is at the
copy shop at the moment so I was hoping someone could straighten me out.
I want to use the full size sheet as my template for my jig but will not
do so if it's not the right shape.
Thanks in advance -
Jake
Message 6
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Stacy,
I used 90 degree on all gussets. ( 1/8" for fuse,,,1/16" for wing rib)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets?
My spruce for the modernized Piet has finally arrived up here in Bethel, AK and
I'll be laying up the jigs over the next week or so. At the time I ordered
1/8" 90 degree birch for the gussets. I now wonder if I should have ordered
45 degree. Any problem using 90 degree vs. 45 degree? If so, could I cut the
plywood on the bias and in effect create 45*/45* gussets (ply-wise that is).
Second question. I read a post that scared me yesterday. The person asked if
the spars were different on the 3-pc vs. 1-pc wing. I bought Charle's 1-pc
rib set (I was thinking weight at the time). I'm now going with the three piece.
I don't have the plans in front of me today. Please tell me I haven't screwed
up big time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 7
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90 degree gussets work well all over the plane.
Charlie Rubeck's ribs are appropriate for either 1 piece or 3 piece wings.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets?
My spruce for the modernized Piet has finally arrived up here in Bethel, AK and
I'll be laying up the jigs over the next week or so. At the time I ordered
1/8" 90 degree birch for the gussets. I now wonder if I should have ordered
45 degree. Any problem using 90 degree vs. 45 degree? If so, could I cut the
plywood on the bias and in effect create 45*/45* gussets (ply-wise that is).
Second question. I read a post that scared me yesterday. The person asked if
the spars were different on the 3-pc vs. 1-pc wing. I bought Charle's 1-pc
rib set (I was thinking weight at the time). I'm now going with the three piece.
I don't have the plans in front of me today. Please tell me I haven't screwed
up big time.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
The drawings are vague enough to allow
"personal interpretation".
If it looks remotely like a Pietenpol it will
be warmly welcomed at Brodhead
and you can display it with pride.
Don't get too hung up on "Pietenpol Purity".
Everybody has their own definition.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about
heritage
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry
Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
>
>
> My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the
way to
> OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a
Model A buff.
> I am going to ask the absurd question now.
Having
> attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he
suggested that
> if you change the design, it ain't a
Pietenpol....he
> then went through all of his changes he
made. We
> talked to him and he laughed and
acknowledged that
> right away. I agree with him. So now, I
ask, when I
> was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they
welcome at
> Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have
another
> friend, building a corvair Grega. I like
the C 65's.
> What is the feeling of plans modifications.
Would hate
> to fly up there and have to hide in the
trees. <vbg>
>
> My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got
to ride in
> two of the Continental planes, one of which
was Chucks
> from Kansas.
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
=============================
Forum -
through the Contributions
banner ads or any other
Matronics Forums.
>
=============================
http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
=============================
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
I agree, take for instance the engine cowl for a A-65,,,there is not a
single,, solitary,, one that is the same as anyone elses!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about heritage
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
>
> The drawings are vague enough to allow
> "personal interpretation".
> If it looks remotely like a Pietenpol it will
> be warmly welcomed at Brodhead
> and you can display it with pride.
> Don't get too hung up on "Pietenpol Purity".
> Everybody has their own definition.
>
> Greg Cardinal
> Minneapolis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about
> heritage
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry
> Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the
> way to
> > OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a
> Model A buff.
> > I am going to ask the absurd question now.
> Having
> > attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he
> suggested that
> > if you change the design, it ain't a
> Pietenpol....he
> > then went through all of his changes he
> made. We
> > talked to him and he laughed and
> acknowledged that
> > right away. I agree with him. So now, I
> ask, when I
> > was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they
> welcome at
> > Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have
> another
> > friend, building a corvair Grega. I like
> the C 65's.
> > What is the feeling of plans modifications.
> Would hate
> > to fly up there and have to hide in the
> trees. <vbg>
> >
> > My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got
> to ride in
> > two of the Continental planes, one of which
> was Chucks
> > from Kansas.
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> start. We finish.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =============================
> Forum -
> through the Contributions
> banner ads or any other
> Matronics Forums.
> >
> =============================
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> =============================
> pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> =============================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
Ron
I got an Air Camper spruce kit from AS for $806. Took a month to get the
order but the wood is real nice.
Rick Holland
Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for awhile, I
was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka spruce, or
even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have a
slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
Many thanks,
Ron
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Where do I get the spruce? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ron Hargrove <ronhargrove@gmail.com>
How long ago was this?
----- Original Message -----
From: at7000ft@aol.com <at7000ft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Where do I get the spruce?
Ron
I got an Air Camper spruce kit from AS for $806. Took a month to get
the order but the wood is real nice.
Rick Holland
Ok guys, I finally got my plans, and while I am studying them for awhile, I
was wondering if I could get some input on where to get the sitka spruce, or
even better, where NOT to get the wood? Also, does anyone out there have a
slightly used builders manual they would be willing to part with at a
reasonable price? Or is it available online somewhere?
Many thanks,
Ron
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
Larry:
This was my first trip to Brodhead and it won't be my last. I have a GN-1
and a Pietenpol project and I didn't catch flak from either side when I was
talking to people at Brodhead. I met a bunch of really swell people last month.
I suspect there could have been a few sourpusses and "purists" in the group,
(although I didn't personally encounter any) but sourpusses are in the
minority. 99% of the folks at Brodhead in my opinion were open minded. Did you
see
the Subaru powered Pietenpol? It probably drew the biggest crowd of any airplane
there, Jenny included. I guess some folks would not call it a Pietenpol
because the builder deviated from the plans, but what is important is the guy who
built it was totally pleased with what his end result was. And I came away very
impressed about Corvair powered Air Campers. (Just don't tell Ralph Nader,
the biggest sour puss of them all!)
We formed TACO (Texas Air Camper Organization) down here in Texas and we are
open to anyone, Grega guys or Pietenpol guys, and we don't care if you are
making a wood or tube fuselage. Hey, this is America, let freedom ring!
Sourpusses are like those guys back in our high school days who either were Chevy
guys
or Ford guys. We feel if you are a guy (or gal) flying a wood and fabric
airplane you are pretty cool despite what it is powered with and despite if you
followed plans to the infinite degree. We don't make fun of anyone flying a Ford
engine, Corvair, or Continental. If the powerplant gets you airborne and can
keep you in the sky safely, more "power" to you. Bernard Pietenpol was a true
"experimenter" and fiddled with engines other than the old Ford powerplant.
And we don't mean to belittle the folks who want to follow Bernard's design
to the exact nut and bolt. That's fine too.
Come down and visit us sometime, we aren't clannish, we just like all folks
who like old looking airplanes! Whenever our Big Burrito (TACO President Terry
Bowden) throws another bash, you won't have to hide in our woods, even if you
show up in a Spam can, although you might get some gentle ribbing about
owning a Spam Can. This group down south will be real happy to see you and your
buddies.
Sterling Brooks (TACO LOCO)
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
NOTAMS... Fresh Cowchips on runway, land at your own risk.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Question about heritage |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:43:09 -0500
Larry, Build your airplane to suit you. There are so many different variations,
the hard core pureists can't rag us all down. Mister Pietenpol himself used
about every engine there was. Long fuselages versus short, Flop or no flop...maybe
a cutout, one piece wing or three piece, Spring gear or bunji....better
yet strait axle. The key is to have fun. I recommend Mike Cuy's video and
spending a lot of time at DJ's web site. Both have a lot of useful info.
Jim Dallas
Benton Ks
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Nelson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about heritage
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
My buddies and I stopped at Brodhead on the way to
OSH. He is building a pure Piet and is a Model A buff.
I am going to ask the absurd question now. Having
attended Bill Rewey's forum, where he suggested that
if you change the design, it ain't a Pietenpol....he
then went through all of his changes he made. We
talked to him and he laughed and acknowledged that
right away. I agree with him. So now, I ask, when I
was at C37, did I see any Grega's? Are they welcome at
Brodhead? Dumb questions, I know. I have another
friend, building a corvair Grega. I like the C 65's.
What is the feeling of plans modifications. Would hate
to fly up there and have to hide in the trees. <vbg>
My buddy who is building the pure Piet, got to ride in
two of the Continental planes, one of which was Chucks
from Kansas.
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 14
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| Subject: | question about heritage |
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with lots
of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like
to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is it
just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same time
there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:22:58 -0500
Dick, I agree!! Went to Brodhead this year for the first time....and was the
best time I've had in years at flyin's. OSH has grown into something I'm not,
somewhere they forgot their roots. Planning on Brodhead again next year and
the SAA flyin. I've heard its what EAA was like in its younger years.
Jim Dallas
Let the Flames Begin
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with
lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would
like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his
thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is
it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same
time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: question about heritage |
I got there monday and tuesday and I was noticing that there were a lack of planes
there too. There seemed to be far fewer military planes in the area where
there used to be a lot of them. There were a lot of areas where in the past years
there were planes and this year there seemed to be more grass.
Not too many ultralights either, a lot of powered parachutes though! A few
years ago, in the morning there would be a dozen or two flying around. Not any
more.They did fly all day tuesday though.
I saw Poberezneys Piet also with the 1/4" ribs. The wood person who built the
wing said Mr. P. noticed that the ribs on many similar planes were 1/4" and
decided to go with that size. Mr. Poberezney is an aircraft designer from years
past and is probably qualified to make that judgement. Did you notice the front
spar was larger on his wing? They were also adding verticals to the ribs
where the drag wires would contact the rib and were going to notch the original
piece.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage
I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet
under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with
lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would
like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over
the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his
thinking.
Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems
came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is
it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow
featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same
time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from
every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions.
In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine.
Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet.
Dick N.
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