---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/02/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - Re: question about heritage (Larry Nelson) 2. 05:37 AM - Re: question about heritage (del magsam) 3. 07:12 AM - Tee shirts (BYOP) being mailed today. (KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com) 4. 07:12 AM - Mountain Piet (Subaru power) (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 07:50 AM - wing questions (Jeff Hill) 6. 08:10 AM - Randy Bruce---75th anniversary t-shirts (Michael D Cuy) 7. 08:14 AM - go here for more pics of Brodhead (Michael D Cuy) 8. 08:20 AM - Re: Wing ribs - 2 questions (Hodgson, Mark O) 9. 08:25 AM - Bill Rewey, Brooks, Ganzter, Dilatush, Sloan, and more ! (Michael D Cuy) 10. 09:54 AM - Re: question about heritage (Richard Navratil) 11. 12:30 PM - Re: Mountain Piet (Subaru power) (walt evans) 12. 12:50 PM - adjustable fork ends for lift struts (Michael D Cuy) 13. 02:22 PM - Wing Rigging () 14. 03:18 PM - Re: Trig help... (Laurits Larsen) 15. 04:42 PM - Re: Trig help... (Don Morris) 16. 06:53 PM - Re: Wing ribs - 2 questions (Jake Crause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:57 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson I go to OSH for the renewal of personal "spirit" and rarely even watch the airshow anymore. (when everyone is at the airshow, there is more room to go through the exhibits and look that the various airplanes.) It is an old complaint that the homebuilts are getting a smaller piece of the pie (unless they are RV's). So...what started it all is now located in the boonies. This is why I had so much fun at Brodhead. I will be there next year early next year. --- Richard Navratil wrote: > I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent > at the show there is a Piet under construction by > the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with > lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 > ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like to comment > further on that project. The Piet was a work in > progress over the life of BHP. I think it is in the > spirit of the creator to continue his thinking. > > Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead > last week when some problems came up and I couldn't > go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is > it just me or is that whole show not what it used to > be. The afternoon airshow featured three Bi planes > in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same > time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet > engines shooting flame from every orfice. They had > a drag race with monster explosions. > In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute > with a jet engine. > > Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet. > Dick N. ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:38 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage Sorry you couldn't make Brodhead Dick....It was the best year yet, and it was the first cross country flight with my vair powered sonex. I forgot to bring my camera, so thanks for everyone that posted pics. Also....did someone happen to get any pics of the row of planes where my plane was parked in line with Williams Zenvair? I would like some if you anyone has any. I recieved my first ride in a piet from Mankato Mn, thanks much.....gotta get mine done.... Del James Dallas wrote: Dick, I agree!! Went to Brodhead this year for the first time....and was the best time I've had in years at flyin's. OSH has grown into something I'm not, somewhere they forgot their roots. Planning on Brodhead again next year and the SAA flyin. I've heard its what EAA was like in its younger years. Jim Dallas Let the Flames Begin ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his thinking. Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions. In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine. Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet. Dick N. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:20 AM PST US From: KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tee shirts (BYOP) being mailed today. BYOP (Build Your Own Pietenpol) tee shirts are being mailed today, for those on the list to receive them. I suspect the shirts will reach their final destinations by Friday. I still have some left in Medium, Large and Extra Large. They are $12.75 mailed to you anywhere in the USA. This is my cost, I make not a dime in profit, just spreading the word about this nifty little bird and the guy who designed it (the airplane, not the shirt...) Either one of the below links should take you to a picture where you can gawk at the design which is on 100% cotton. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=210 or http://www.byop.us ... a cheesy, cheap website from the shamless commerce division of TACO guys. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:36 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet (Subaru power) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Note to those who didn't get to Brodhead and are curious about the "Subaru powered Piet" mentioned in several posts here. That Piet is the beautiful creation of John Dilatush, who I had the pleasure and privilege of meeting in person last summer. I got to photograph his airplane and I put the photos up on a webpage, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html "Mountain Piet" is a beauty. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:40 AM PST US From: "Jeff Hill" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill" Use the 90 deg ply, just remember to put a thin coat of epoxy on the inside of the gusset before you glue it into position. That saves you having to epoxy varnish it after the rib is built when those nooks and crevices are hard to get to. Definitely put the vertical piece in the rib to adhere to the rear of each spar. It keeps the ribs equally in position and the you don't have to use those nails into the top and bottom of the spar (which weakens the capstrip). Jeff Hill in Texas starting on the 2nd piet Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:37 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Randy Bruce---Pietenpol-List: 75th anniversary t-shirts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Guys-- if any of you were fortunate enough to meet Randy Bruce at Brodhead you'll note that he's quite a fun guy and like Larry said, a talented artist. His Pietenpol was just GORGEOUS when I saw it for the 70th gathering five years back but I hear he's no longer got it. Those t-shirts must be super and I'm going to order one up to support the cause. How many guys are we going to have finished and flying FIVE years from now for the 80th gathering ? I'll turn 50 that year so I'm already making plans to go ! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:49 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: go here for more pics of Brodhead --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy From the desk, er computer of the fine Grant MacLaren............ http://www.specializedwholesale.com/grantsstuff/brodhead04/index.html ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing ribs - 2 questions From: "Hodgson, Mark O" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" Hi Jake, As one building wing ribs myself right now, and who benefited a lot from Charlie Rubeck's workshop at Brodhead, a couple of points: A) The vertical strut inside the spar, per plans, isn't totally necessary but is a good idea for two reasons 1) You can nail the rib to the spar from the inside, the better way Bingelis recommends, rather than from the top and bottom capstrips the way B.H.P. did. 2) You DON'T need the damn wedges between the top of each spar and the capstrip, because the strut bears the load for which the wedges were required (this according to Charlie). That saves a lot of grief later on when assembling the wing. B) Struts on outside as well as inside of spar is overkill. C) Don't trust copies of the full-scale plan. I paid $7 for a vellum copy to use on my jig, only to find that the Kinko machine had expanded it some in all directions. The full-scale plan, in fact, does not exactly agree with B.H.P.'s measurements, and I wound up lofting his measurements to the jig. I did fix the copy to the inside of the jig for brace and strut placement which I didn't think was as critical as the spar and outside wing measurements. And I used a trace of his plan to make the curve for the capstrip-bending jig. I'm in the middle of a ton of scanning of Brodhead and other pix, and I'll have pix of my construction on a website in a week or so (I hope)--stay tuned. The Brodhead pix I'll send to matronics photoshare in a couple of days (I hope). Someday I'll finish the ribs. Mark Hodgson Beantown ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:52 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey, Brooks, Ganzter, Dilatush, Sloan, and more ! Thank you Sterling for mailing the nice TACO ID badge. Looks so official I could have gotten into work this morning with it. Way to go Chuck and John D. for making the long trips. Heard tons of compliments on the Rocky Mountain Piet. Got to see Bill Rewey put on a very good Pietenpol Forum at OSH Tuesday and meet some good Piet folks there. Bill was wearing Sterling's BYOP (build your own Pietenpol) t-shirt too during his talk and thanked Sterling for putting the shirt in Bill's cockpit. Sorry I missed meeting you there, Sterling. There was a big crowd for Bill's talk and an even Bigger crowd, including William Wynne and Grace Ellen to see our own Alex Sloan, Pietenpol builder receive the Bingelis Award at the Homebuilder's Dinner which recognizes an individual's contributions to the homebuilt-aircraft community, and honors the memory and involvement of the late Tony Bingelis. Here is a photo of Alex and his award from last Thursday evening. L-R, Mike C., Doc Mosher, Grace Ellen, Alex Sloan, & William Wynne. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:38 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage No, I didn't notice the spar. I did hear some grumbling from the crew working on it about some of the many modifications not working out as planned. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage I got there monday and tuesday and I was noticing that there were a lack of planes there too. There seemed to be far fewer military planes in the area where there used to be a lot of them. There were a lot of areas where in the past years there were planes and this year there seemed to be more grass. Not too many ultralights either, a lot of powered parachutes though! A few years ago, in the morning there would be a dozen or two flying around. Not any more.They did fly all day tuesday though. I saw Poberezneys Piet also with the 1/4" ribs. The wood person who built the wing said Mr. P. noticed that the ribs on many similar planes were 1/4" and decided to go with that size. Mr. Poberezney is an aircraft designer from years past and is probably qualified to make that judgement. Did you notice the front spar was larger on his wing? They were also adding verticals to the ribs where the drag wires would contact the rib and were going to notch the original piece. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: question about heritage I just got back from OSH tonight. In the wood tent at the show there is a Piet under construction by the crew for Paul Poberezney (sp?). He came up with lots of modifications on his including 1/4 x 1/4 ribs. Maybe Doc Mosher would like to comment further on that project. The Piet was a work in progress over the life of BHP. I think it is in the spirit of the creator to continue his thinking. Another subject. I was set to leave for Broadhead last week when some problems came up and I couldn't go. So I went to OSH hoping to fill that void. Is it just me or is that whole show not what it used to be. The afternoon airshow featured three Bi planes in the air, one with the jet engine and at the same time there were 2 Semi trucks on the runway with jet engines shooting flame from every orfice. They had a drag race with monster explosions. In the ultralight area there was a powered parachute with a jet engine. Please dont try a jet engine on a Piet. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:17 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet (Subaru power) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Oscar, Pics are great! I have a question,,,,,I'm thinking of putting dihedral into the wing of my completed/flying Piet. One of the drawbacks was that I had to remake the main wing struts cause they would have to be longer. I noticed in the pics of Johns plane that he added adjusting forks to the bottom of a normal straight streamlined strut tube. Do you know if that fitting is available? I could add that to the bottom of my existing tube to get the length that I need. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet (Subaru power) > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > Note to those who didn't get to Brodhead and are curious about the "Subaru > powered Piet" mentioned in several posts here. That Piet is the beautiful > creation of John Dilatush, who I had the pleasure and privilege of meeting > in person last summer. I got to photograph his airplane and I put the > photos up on a webpage, at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html > > "Mountain Piet" is a beauty. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:11 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: adjustable fork ends for lift struts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Walt-- I bought my "weldable threaded 4130 barrels" from Wicks and welded them in all four lift struts at the lower end and then had some used fork ends which I had magnafluxed before I used them. You can get some dihedral this way and adjust washout and raise a low wing if she's flying out of rig slightly. A simple way that Bernie did this tho was to make new attach straps up at the wing ends and drill the holes where you want your wing to be. I do think his plans show those straps with multiple holes so you can do some fiddle/adjusting. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:18 PM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rigging To those of you with flying airplanes, what is the recommended amount of washout at the wingtips? With the wing roots level, how much should the trailing edge of the wingtips be above level? We have the dihedral set at 1 3/8". Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:07 PM PST US From: "Laurits Larsen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trig help... Hi, I have been using some trig for working out angles, etc., all along. I find that an 'el cheapo' scientifc calculator works great. ( Saw one advertised recently for $6.99.) Makes it easy to work both ways, i.e find the angle or find the rise/run measurements from the angle. Lou Larsen, (back in steamy Florida after the comfortable Brodhead weather.) ----- Original Message ----- From: N925WB1@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:06 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trig help... Jim, All those angles and measurements can be done with the Sine, Cosine, & Tangent formulas. Pretty simple stuff once you get the hang of it. I'll have to admit, though, having a program that calculates it all for you is much easier! -Wayne In a message dated 7/31/2004 9:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share a great site I found a while back. I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to know the exact angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this site makes quick work of it. Go here: http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm and there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make the numbers quick and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and if you know what THAT is, you're an older antique than myself!) I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 degrees of dihedral so they would have an inch or so at the wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2 degrees at (approx) 161" gives a bit more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't really matter at this point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy check of the numbers! Jim in Plano ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:28 PM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trig help... <00cc01c478de$86d0cc00$4c01b341@lmz349ey3cm6h1> Try using the calculator that comes with Windows (in accessories, if you installed it). Just set the "view" to scientific, and it will sine, cosine, and tangent to your heart's content. -Don Laurits Larsen wrote: > Hi, > > I have been using some trig for working out angles, etc., all along. > I find that an 'el cheapo' scientifc calculator works great. ( Saw > one advertised recently for $6.99.) Makes it easy to work both ways, > i.e find the angle or find the rise/run measurements from the angle. > > Lou Larsen, (back in steamy Florida after the comfortable Brodhead > weather.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: N925WB1@aol.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 12:06 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trig help... > > Jim, > > All those angles and measurements can be done with the Sine, > Cosine, & Tangent formulas. Pretty simple stuff once you get the > hang of it. I'll have to admit, though, having a program that > calculates it all for you is much easier! > > -Wayne > > In a message dated 7/31/2004 9:38:31 PM Central Daylight Time, > jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: > > I think it's been mentioned before, but thought I would share > a great site I found a while back. > > I'm checking some wing angles/rises/slopes/etc and needed to > know the exact angle for a 1" rise at the wingtip....and this > site makes quick work of it. > > Go here: > http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/triangle_solution_menu.htm > and there are a bunch of right triangle formulaes that make > the numbers quick and easy (unless you have a Smoley's...and > if you know what THAT is, you're an older antique than myself!) > > I think I once heard someone say they put in about 1 1/2 > degrees of dihedral so they would have an inch or so at the > wingtip....NOT. 1 1/2 degrees at (approx) 161" gives a bit > more than 4" of rise....ok, it doesn't really matter at this > point, but it sure is nice to have a quick and easy check of > the numbers! > > Jim in Plano > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:21 PM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing ribs - 2 questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jake Crause" Jeff, Mark, and Dick, Thanks for the replies. It looks like the single vertical brace is the way to go. I won't double brace it like I originally thought of doing. I just got my copies of the full size wing rib back and they were both elongated by 1/4 inch. Oh well. Jake Crause