---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/07/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:29 AM - Re: Forward CG limit () 2. 06:44 AM - Re: Data Plate Location (Jack Phillips) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: Data Plate Location (walt evans) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: Data Plate Location (Gene Rambo) 5. 07:54 AM - Re: Forward CG limit (Cory Emberson) 6. 09:32 AM - Re: Data Plate Location () 7. 09:56 AM - Re: Data Plate Location (Christian Bobka) 8. 11:18 AM - Chuck Gantzer is off again (Isablcorky@aol.com) 9. 02:03 PM - Re: Forward CG limit (Richard Navratil) 10. 02:09 PM - Re: Data Plate Location (Richard Navratil) 11. 02:46 PM - anyone live near South Bend, IN / Edwardsburg, MI ?? (DJ Vegh) 12. 03:16 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 13. 03:34 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Isablcorky@aol.com) 14. 06:44 PM - Solar Power and Turbine/Battery Charger schematic (Don Morris) 15. 07:13 PM - (javcr@prodigy.net.mx) 16. 07:34 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Isablcorky@aol.com) 17. 08:11 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 18. 08:53 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Isablcorky@aol.com) 19. 08:57 PM - Re: Vacuum Bagging (Mike Whaley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:35 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit It was actually in the July issue. Thank you, Cory, for writing that up. Dale and I have received lots of good feedback from that. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:35 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit It's the June issue, which is a few issues old. It's the Builder's Report that's bannered across the top of the cover. It's a *beautiful* panel! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:32 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit What issue of Kitplanes??? I'll need to look for that! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:54 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location That's where I'm going to put mine, Greg. The regs say something about "between the cockpit and the tail of the aircraft". I don't like the idea of gluing it to the fabric. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of gcardinal@mn.rr.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate. FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit. What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors? My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:26 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location Greg, I put mine on the rear seat back, near the top where it steps back for the turtleback and helmet box. The DAR looked at it without comment. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate. FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit. What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors? My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:00 AM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location the data plate only has to go on the outside if it is not otherwise visible from the outside. The baggage door on an open cockpit is entirely proper. ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location Greg, I put mine on the rear seat back, near the top where it steps back for the turtleback and helmet box. The DAR looked at it without comment. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate. FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit. What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors? My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:31 AM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit Oh, you're right - July was interiors and exteriors. I saw "Panels" and thought "Greg's Piet." Glad you and Dale received good reviews! :-) best, Cory -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of gcardinal@mn.rr.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 5:29 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit It was actually in the July issue. Thank you, Cory, for writing that up. Dale and I have received lots of good feedback from that. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Cory Emberson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:35 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit It's the June issue, which is a few issues old. It's the Builder's Report that's bannered across the top of the cover. It's a *beautiful* panel! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:32 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit What issue of Kitplanes??? I'll need to look for that! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:33 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location The baggage compartment door appears to be a widely accepted location. That is where it will go. If Mr. Inspector needs it elsewhere we'll deal with it at that time. Dick Navratil, do you have contact info for Mr. Norris? How much lead time does he need to schedule an inspection? Thanks, Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate. FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit. What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors? My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:27 AM PST US d="scan'217,208"; a="176850399:sNHT19153900" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location Dick is in montana as of this morning. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location The baggage compartment door appears to be a widely accepted location. That is where it will go. If Mr. Inspector needs it elsewhere we'll deal with it at that time. Dick Navratil, do you have contact info for Mr. Norris? How much lead time does he need to schedule an inspection? Thanks, Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate. FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit. What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors? My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:31 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Pieters and interested, Chuck called at 1240 CDT from Fairfield, Ohio. Sounded happy. Was proud he had given 13 rides while in West Va. Had two newspaper stories published and another is expected in tomorrow's paper. Said he has met many Pieters not on the list which he will announce once at home. He did begin his flight home BEFORE noon Terry. He admits that he is not a morning person. Plans another stop today at Wright Bros Dayton so he can tour the museum there and if he has enough time he will stretch daylight into some small sod field in Indiana or sleep in his bag in Dayton. He will try to get to St Louis tomorrow. Jon I told him to call you in event you want him on TV. He would make a better story than what we're getting on all those news channels these days. Corky, Chuck's Ass't Operations NCO ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:10 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit It is Stainless steel and has to have the serial #,Name of Builder,and Model. Under the horiz stab there is an area where there is a ply gusset that re enforces the tail post. I screwed it into that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit Dick, I thought the instrument panel location for the data plate would not fly with Mr. Norris. What did your plate by the tail say on it? What is it attached to? What is it made of? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit Hi Greg On both of your questions; 15 inches is the most forward CG For my inspection I put mine on the panel of the forward cockpit, citing the rule on antique models. That didnt get by with the inspector. I had to mount a second one on the left side under the horiz stab. Would you like a copy of the Piet operations manual? The inspector seemed to like it. I posted it to the Matronics pic file. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Forward CG limit I know the aft most CG location is 20" aft of the wing LE. That info is on the plans. What about the recommended maximum forward CG location? I don't see it on the plans and can't recall any discussions about it. I'm getting all of the paperwork together for the final inspection and this bit of info is needed. Thanks, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:17 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location We actually were delayed in leaving. Will be gone in the next hour after this last check of messages. Joe Norris can be reached at the EAA headquarters. Sorry I dont have his direct number. I scheduled with him a few weeks in advance. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Bobka To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location Dick is in montana as of this morning. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location The baggage compartment door appears to be a widely accepted location. That is where it will go. If Mr. Inspector needs it elsewhere we'll deal with it at that time. Dick Navratil, do you have contact info for Mr. Norris? How much lead time does he need to schedule an inspection? Thanks, Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Data Plate Location I need some info on acceptable locations for the aircraft dataplate. FAR 45 indicates it needs to go on the exterior of the aircraft near the tail surfaces yet I've seen many with the dataplate in the cockpit. What has been an acceptable location for the inspectors? My preference is to mount it on the glovebox door. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:56 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: anyone live near South Bend, IN / Edwardsburg, MI ?? if so please contact me off list. djv@imagedv.com Thanks! DJ V. N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:41 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Do you have Chucks time of arrival at Creve Coeur airport and what is his cell number? I live about 5 miles from Creve Coeur airport and would like to meet him there. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Pieters and interested, Chuck called at 1240 CDT from Fairfield, Ohio. Sounded happy. Was proud he had given 13 rides while in West Va. Had two newspaper stories published and another is expected in tomorrow's paper. Said he has met many Pieters not on the list which he will announce once at home. He did begin his flight home BEFORE noon Terry. He admits that he is not a morning person. Plans another stop today at Wright Bros Dayton so he can tour the museum there and if he has enough time he will stretch daylight into some small sod field in Indiana or sleep in his bag in Dayton. He will try to get to St Louis tomorrow. Jon I told him to call you in event you want him on TV. He would make a better story than what we're getting on all those news channels these days. Corky, Chuck's Ass't Operations NCO ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:08 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Dennis, Chuck has ceased to use his cell phone as it's too expensive. He bought himself a calling card at Wallies and makes all his calls from pay phones. I can't seem to find his cell number. Chuck's operations shack` ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:30 PM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Solar Power and Turbine/Battery Charger schematic Hi. Took the time to draw up the "voltage regulator" we mentioned for a small wind turbine. The NPN transistor must be capable of enough power dissipation not to blow it out (amps times volts). It basically serves as a reverse current cutout, taking the turbine off line when its voltage is not higher than the battery (although if you left it run, you might add .0001 hp to your piet, and shorten the takeoff roll by a fraction of a cm *grin*). I personally wouldn't bother with a zener diode overprotector, but it wouldn't hurt. Set it to about 16 to 18 volts (and remember that it has to be able to handle the power from the entire unit). You may have to decrease the values of the resistors - they should be as high as possible with the unit still functioning. I would definitely use a capacitor for noise suppression, as a little hobby motor is bound to give a pretty rough output. Make it as big as practical - perhaps 1000uF. Radio Shack transistors might not be big enough - I haven't checked what they have on the high power end. I would look at www.jameco.com for parts. BTW, if I remember the figures correctly, the full sun has about 300 Watts per square meter of intensity after it filters through the air (out in space, it is more than triple that). The best of solar cells are around 15% efficient - and the cheap ones struggle to get 10% That puts us down to 30 watts per square meter. Since you won't be doing a square meter - your cell will be more like 10 cm by 25 cm (just guessing - I saw Chuck's system) - that is 2.5% of a square meter - that is .75 watt. At 12 volts, that is .06 amps. A small generator could easily produce a half amp - or 6 watts. On the other hand, the solar cell charges whenever you are outside. The turbine charges only on the go. The solar cell cost $20 (harborfreight - that is where Chuck got his). The power schematic I have drawn will probably cost you around $10 to build, depending on your scrounging ability, and will be quite a bit of trouble to work all the bugs out of. The long and short of it all is, do what you want to do. Ground charging your battery is the most practical. After that, I would probably tip my hat to the solar panel. But, a turbine would be very cool - and work better on long flights. -Don ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:31 PM PST US From: javcr@prodigy.net.mx Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1.2 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header John Glad you're OK. I know that you want to sell the plane, but I think that you can wait some time, maybe with a little time and your excellent workmanship, the Mountain Piet will be flying soon, and if you still want to sell it you can get more money that if you sell it now=85 Javier Cruz ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:52 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Dennis, Found Chuck's cell phone address. 316 253 7832. There must not have been a pay phone at the airport from where he called today as he used his cell phone. If you will give me your phone I'll give it to Chuck when and if he calls tomorrow. Operations nco ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:00 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again My number is (314) 776-1092. Did Chuck give any indication of when he thought he would arrive? I would like to surprise him and be on the field waiting for him to land. It would probably be sometime in the afternoon since he doesn't arise early. Sounds like one of my kids. : ) Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Dennis, Found Chuck's cell phone address. 316 253 7832. There must not have been a pay phone at the airport from where he called today as he used his cell phone. If you will give me your phone I'll give it to Chuck when and if he calls tomorrow. Operations nco ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:28 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Dennis, Since meeting Chuck I've noticed he is reluctant to give an ETA . I think one reason is he might find a place he likes and decide to stay longer and meet more people. Chuck loves people. Operations NCO ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:55 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging That's exactly how we laminate wing spars for Skybolts and Pitts' at work - a high-stress application if there ever was one. We use FPL-16A, and splice pieces to create pieces for the layers as needed (I think it's a 1:20 slope on the splice and you always stagger the splices, of course.) Laminated spar test samples come out at least 25% stronger than a single piece of Sitka Spruce (some samples make it to 50% stronger), with little to no weight gain, and when they fail, they do so in stages where you have nearly the same strength after the first layer breaks as the single-piece spar has. (The FAA says a laminated piece is AS strong as a single piece, not stronger, so build to that standard - but rest assured that a proper lamination job will generally add a significant increase in strength.) Laminated pieces generally won't warp, either. We don't recommend routed spars at all anymore, nor do we reduce the size of the spars when we do laminations. My Piet will probably have laminated spars. Not that I'll be pulling Gs like the Skybolt and Pitts guys do! -Mike Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:41 PM Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Vacuum Bagging I just gotta share this....I'm doing ash pieces for the straight axle landing gear....Didn't have a 1 1/4" piece so I'm laminating two 3/4" pieces and will plane that down to size. Just realized I haven't done any vacuum bagging in over 10 years and now I remember why I did in the first place! Perfect pressure all around....NO clamps! Sometime in the near future I'll do a quick article with pictures explaining the simple and cheap process. Jim in Plano.....