---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/08/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - hidden agenda (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 2. 06:39 AM - Re: Solar Power and Turbine/Battery Charger schematic (Carl D. Vought) 3. 07:11 AM - Off topic but good..... (Jim Markle) 4. 07:25 AM - huh? (Christian Bobka) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: hidden agenda (DJ Vegh) 6. 10:43 AM - The recent Kitplane article (Jim Markle) 7. 02:05 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 8. 02:13 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer is off again (Isablcorky@aol.com) 9. 03:44 PM - Chuck Gantzer's Tour America (Isablcorky@aol.com) 10. 05:03 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 11. 05:09 PM - Slight Piet mods (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 12. 05:09 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America (Isablcorky@aol.com) 13. 05:50 PM - Re: Slight Piet mods (Isablcorky@aol.com) 14. 06:35 PM - Re: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America (Christian Bobka) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:05 AM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: hidden agenda Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:20:06 -0400 Pietenpol List Brethern- I didn't get to be at the big bash at Tick Hill and I only briefly saw Doc Mosher at Brodhead (didn't notice the T-shirt) so I may be a bit off in my assessment of the whole situation, but here's what I seem to be seeing as a trend. I fear that there is a hidden agenda within the group perpetrated by a secret few! Perhaps by exposing the plot, we can stay united and move forward once more without fearing for our rights! I speak of course, of the fledgling T.A.C.O. (Texas Air Camper Organization) group. Merely by it's name there is a taint of snobbery and elitism because of the "Pietenpol only" slant! Are they willing to accept other airplanes in their organization? Should there be another group dubbed T.O.G.A. (Texas Organization of Grega Aircampers)? Should the name be changed to accept multi-cultural builders? Perhaps something along the lines of T.A.L.L. (Texas All Lightplane Lovers). Come to think of it, why is it restricted to Texas?? Now, about that B.Y.O.P. (Build your Own Pietenpol) T-Shirt. Do you see a close parallel here? Seems to me that it's exclusionary to all but the Pietenpol elitists. Man, these guys are sneaky. I believe that even though there are two different groups at work here, there is enough harmony in purpose that there must certainly be a link. Don't you all see the wedge that is beginning to divide us from each other? Are you all blind to the calamity that this slippery slope represents? Brothers, beware!!! If you are building or flying a GN-1 and want to call it a Pietenpol, don't let these menaces steamroll over your rights. Shoot....... If you want to build a Lancair and call it a Pietenpol, who are these snobs to stop you. It's a free country and we can label things any way we want ( in the words of a former U.S. President :it depends on what "is" is). I think a good, level playing field may be realized in the future if we had an organization with an acronym like B.R.A.T. (Build Right And Prosper) or Y.S.O.P.M.M.P. (Your Sense Of Propriety Makes Me Puke) or something else that would let us do whatever we want to do without being bound by tradition or history. T.A.C.O. indeed! Larry ps. I'm still waiting for my I.D. and T-Shirt ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:42 AM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solar Power and Turbine/Battery Charger schematic --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" There needs to be a current limiting device (such as a resistor)in between the generator and the Zener diode, otherwise the zener will draw excessive current above the zener voltage. On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 20:43:41 -0500, Don Morris wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Don Morris > > > Hi. > > Took the time to draw up the "voltage regulator" we mentioned for a > small wind turbine. The NPN transistor must be capable of enough power > dissipation not to blow it out (amps times volts). It basically serves > as a reverse current cutout, taking the turbine off line when its > voltage is not higher than the battery (although if you left it run, you > might add .0001 hp to your piet, and shorten the takeoff roll by a > fraction of a cm *grin*). I personally wouldn't bother with a zener > diode overprotector, but it wouldn't hurt. Set it to about 16 to 18 > volts (and remember that it has to be able to handle the power from the > entire unit). You may have to decrease the values of the resistors - > they should be as high as possible with the unit still functioning. I > would definitely use a capacitor for noise suppression, as a little > hobby motor is bound to give a pretty rough output. Make it as big as > practical - perhaps 1000uF. Radio Shack transistors might not be big > enough - I haven't checked what they have on the high power end. I > would look at www.jameco.com for parts. > > BTW, if I remember the figures correctly, the full sun has about 300 > Watts per square meter of intensity after it filters through the air > (out in space, it is more than triple that). The best of solar cells > are around 15% efficient - and the cheap ones struggle to get 10% That > puts us down to 30 watts per square meter. Since you won't be doing a > square meter - your cell will be more like 10 cm by 25 cm (just guessing > - I saw Chuck's system) - that is 2.5% of a square meter - that is .75 > watt. At 12 volts, that is .06 amps. A small generator could easily > produce a half amp - or 6 watts. > > On the other hand, the solar cell charges whenever you are outside. The > turbine charges only on the go. The solar cell cost $20 (harborfreight > - that is where Chuck got his). The power schematic I have drawn will > probably cost you around $10 to build, depending on your scrounging > ability, and will be quite a bit of trouble to work all the bugs out of. > > The long and short of it all is, do what you want to do. Ground > charging your battery is the most practical. After that, I would > probably tip my hat to the solar panel. But, a turbine would be very > cool - and work better on long flights. > > -Don > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:00 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off topic but good..... Ok, I'll be the first to admit to "non relevant" emails....I've certainly sent a few. Sometimes I just enjoy the building process and people in this group so much I can't keep quiet.... Well, here's something I found on thet OV-10 Bronco (a couple of my friends flew the Bronco in Viet Nam) Association that touched me and I've got to share it..... http://members.accessus.net/~tmcdonld/lighthse/Texas.htm Jim in Plano do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:32 AM PST US d="scan'217,208"; a="179446323:sNHT80174372" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: huh? Larry, B.R.A.T. (Build Right And Prosper) Am I missing something? Chris do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:42 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hidden agenda ahhh.... but look closer at the aircamper drawing on the front and back. you would see that it is GN-1. There is a small detail on the plane that gives away it's identity. :) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: LAWRENCE WILLIAMS To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hidden agenda Pietenpol List Brethern- I didn't get to be at the big bash at Tick Hill and I only briefly saw Doc Mosher at Brodhead (didn't notice the T-shirt) so I may be a bit off in my assessment of the whole situation, but here's what I seem to be seeing as a trend. I fear that there is a hidden agenda within the group perpetrated by a secret few! Perhaps by exposing the plot, we can stay united and move forward once more without fearing for our rights! I speak of course, of the fledgling T.A.C.O. (Texas Air Camper Organization) group. Merely by it's name there is a taint of snobbery and elitism because of the "Pietenpol only" slant! Are they willing to accept other airplanes in their organization? Should there be another group dubbed T.O.G.A. (Texas Organization of Grega Aircampers)? Should the name be changed to accept multi-cultural builders? Perhaps something along the lines of T.A.L.L. (Texas All Lightplane Lovers). Come to think of it, why is it restricted to Texas?? Now, about that B.Y.O.P. (Build your Own Pietenpol) T-Shirt. Do you see a close parallel here? Seems to me that it's exclusionary to all but the Pietenpol elitists. Man, these guys are sneaky. I believe that even though there are two different groups at work here, there is enough harmony in purpose that there must certainly be a link. Don't you all see the wedge that is beginning to divide us from each other? Are you all blind to the calamity that this slippery slope represents? Brothers, beware!!! If you are building or flying a GN-1 and want to call it a Pietenpol, don't let these menaces steamroll over your rights. Shoot....... If you want to build a Lancair and call it a Pietenpol, who are these snobs to stop you. It's a free country and we can label things any way we want ( in the words of a former U.S. President :it depends on what "is" is). I think a good, level playing field may be realized in the future if we had an organization with an acronym like B.R.A.T. (Build Right And Prosper) or Y.S.O.P.M.M.P. (Your Sense Of Propriety Makes Me Puke) or something else that would let us do whatever we want to do without being bound by tradition or history. T.A.C.O. indeed! Larry ps. I'm still waiting for my I.D. and T-Shirt ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:23 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: The recent Kitplane article that was referenced recently ( with pictures of Gred and Dale's work....) If that link fails, the pictures are on mykitplane.com under "file library" for Jim Markle.... JM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:47 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Hi Corky: any word from Chuck yet? He should be here in St.Louis,MO in an hour or two. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Dennis, Found Chuck's cell phone address. 316 253 7832. There must not have been a pay phone at the airport from where he called today as he used his cell phone. If you will give me your phone I'll give it to Chuck when and if he calls tomorrow. Operations nco ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:03 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer is off again Not a word today Dennis. Check with flight service he may have filed a flight plan but I wouldn't count on his keeping to it if he sees a Wally World. Told me he had used over 25 bottles of baby oil. Gantzers operations nco ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:39 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America Pieters and interested, Chuck checked into operations at 1712CDT. He overnighted at Franklin, Ind. He says it was a perfect stop. Lots of jumpers, beer, women, beer and more women. Watched movies with the women last night while they all drank more beer. He slept in his bag. Took all the women for rides today with top of the head video cameras. Can't wait to see those shots. He adds that they were all beautiful girls. He is trying for Sullivan County or Casey, Ill tonight. Says he will get a hotel as he even admits he needs a scrub. Dennis: I gave him your phone # and you should expect a call from him. Said he will ask FAA for a flight into Creve Coeur w/o xponder. What a tour. Tour operations shack ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:12 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America If he would rather not do the flight w/o transponder thing, he can land at Columbia, Ill. It is Sackmann Field on the sectional and is just southeast of St.Louis, MO and just out of the Mode C veil. They have av gas there tomorrow, and it is a long north/south grass strip. He can land at Sullivan Field which is just north of old Valmeyer, Ill and about 5 miles or less south of Columbia, Ill. if he would like and we would let him overnight his plane inside if it rains. Neither has a tower and neither is busy enough to require a radio. Tell him to avoid Scott AFB if he can because of the large military planes flying in and out at all hours. On the other hand, I am sure he can get into Creve Coeur if he wants since it is a haven for antique planes and there is a museum there on the field which he would enjoy touring. They also have av gas as I'm sure he knows already. I've got to hand it to him, he has cajones the size of basketballs to try what he is doing. Wish it was me. Take care. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 5:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America Pieters and interested, Chuck checked into operations at 1712CDT. He overnighted at Franklin, Ind. He says it was a perfect stop. Lots of jumpers, beer, women, beer and more women. Watched movies with the women last night while they all drank more beer. He slept in his bag. Took all the women for rides today with top of the head video cameras. Can't wait to see those shots. He adds that they were all beautiful girls. He is trying for Sullivan County or Casey, Ill tonight. Says he will get a hotel as he even admits he needs a scrub. Dennis: I gave him your phone # and you should expect a call from him. Said he will ask FAA for a flight into Creve Coeur w/o xponder. What a tour. Tour operations shack ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:49 PM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slight Piet mods Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:10:07 -0400 0.7 SARE_ADULT1 BODY: Contains adult material I thought I'd share some of the techniques and modifications that I made while building my Pietenpol Air Camper so others following along would be able to benefit from my pioneering efforts and not have to be bound by those absolutely awful and incomplete plans that are certainly archaic and possibly dangerous if followed. Nobody could possibly build an airplane using those old drawings. The first step was to disregard entirely the model "A" Ford engine with the view-obstructing radiator in favor of a real airplane powerplant. I'll bet that the Piet's that show up at fly-ins with those old engines all arrive in trailers and get put together at night when nobody is around. A man would have to be a fool to fly behind one of those old boat anchors. I just happened to have a 160 H.P. Continental with a constant-speed prop available and I figured .... why not? Where I live there are wooden buildings that have rotted and since that was not something I wanted my airplane to do, I switched the structure over to aluminum. That easily solved the problem of what to seal the wood with! Also it was such a hassle trying to find Spruce and so confusing trying to figure out which woods might be used as a suitable substitute. You have Douglas Fir that is heavier but stronger and might splinter in a crack-up. White Pine, Poplar and Cedar that might or might not work, depending who you listen to. All sorts of conflicting opinions about wood, and then there was the constant bickering about which glue to use. Forget all that! I wanted to get my airplane in the air quickly and not be bothered by all that old tradition stuff. If I wanted an heirloom, I'd build a grandfather clock! Next was figuring what to do about that gosh-awful parasol wing and all those old-fashioned struts and cables. Can you imagine trusting your life to cables! The obvious solution was to simply move the wing to the bottom of the airplane. Look around folks, aviation has advanced somewhat since the 30's and practically all the up-to-date airplanes are low-wings. It just made sense. And now, about that fabric. I mean, really! How many fabric covered Cessna's or airliners do you see? Aluminum is the only skin for my bird. No hassles with rib-stitching, no wrinkles, no ironing or pinking. Poly-Fiber, acrylic, house paint..Heck, I don't even have to paint it if I don't want to. That was a no-brainer! OK, so I got this thing pretty far along and it occurred to me that it was going to be a lot faster than I thought, so a canopy might be a good thing to have. That way I wouldn't be bothered by all that wind blowing in my hair and sucking things out of the cockpit. Oh yeah, and flaps to slow me down so I can still fly into pastures like Bernie used to do. No problem adding those things. As you can see, I did retain the tandem seating as well as the tailwheel (although I do have supplemental drawings for a nose wheel that I'm considering) because I didn't want to lose the "flavor" of the original Pietenpol Air Camper. That about wraps up the subtle design changes I made. Now I'd like to get into the philosophy of all this just to sort of justify what I have done. You see, I never even met Mr. Pietenpol but I have a strong feeling of what he must have been like, what he thought and where he was going. I have such respect for the man that I never put a change into the design unless I thought he would have done it too if he had been around and seriously thought about it. I'm sure he would like what I've done with his old-timey flying machine. That's why I'm going to start selling plans and call them Pietenpol's AirCamper plans. Obviously, if I called it the Pietenpol Air Camper, it would be plagiarism and might confuse people, so I'll stick that little "s" on the end to avoid any possible doubt. That about sums it up. I had a ball building it and imagining how proud Bernie would feel knowing that his airplane was finally updated. I hope this inspires others to build from original plans and only change the things that the designer would have changed if he had the intelligence and insight available to us today. That way you can proudly tell the world that, "It's a Pietenpol Air Camper, I built it from the plans". The enclosed picture shows my modified, plans-built, original Pietenpol Air Camper on it's maiden flight last spring. Although you can't see it in the picture, I had "Bernie's Dream" gold leafed on the nose in honor of the designer. (Insert a picture of an RV-4 or RV-8 here) Happy building and flying- Larry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:52 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America Dennis, I'll pass on your message if he calls but I feel you will hear from him before I. He may have decided to stay another night in Franklin as he told me he really enjoyed the after dark activities. He didn't elaborate. Tour operations ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:29 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Slight Piet mods Larry, I know your letter was meant in jest and a bit of humor for our list. If NOT You have proven finally that there are more horses asses than horses. Let me add, if all of us tried to pursue the same woman this world would be in a worse condition. Speaking of women, please post a picture of your wife, if you have one, on the pietenpol matronics picture list. We could judge your taste. Corky in La enjoying building his Piet from those antiquated plans anticipating it coming apart while making his first Immelman while his bride watches with pride. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:09 PM PST US d="scan'217,208"; a="184806325:sNHT455489320" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America Chuck has an engine driven electrical system that runs something other than the ignition? If not, then he don't need no transponderonder....\ Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America If he would rather not do the flight w/o transponder thing, he can land at Columbia, Ill. It is Sackmann Field on the sectional and is just southeast of St.Louis, MO and just out of the Mode C veil. They have av gas there tomorrow, and it is a long north/south grass strip. He can land at Sullivan Field which is just north of old Valmeyer, Ill and about 5 miles or less south of Columbia, Ill. if he would like and we would let him overnight his plane inside if it rains. Neither has a tower and neither is busy enough to require a radio. Tell him to avoid Scott AFB if he can because of the large military planes flying in and out at all hours. On the other hand, I am sure he can get into Creve Coeur if he wants since it is a haven for antique planes and there is a museum there on the field which he would enjoy touring. They also have av gas as I'm sure he knows already. I've got to hand it to him, he has cajones the size of basketballs to try what he is doing. Wish it was me. Take care. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 5:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck Gantzer's Tour America Pieters and interested, Chuck checked into operations at 1712CDT. He overnighted at Franklin, Ind. He says it was a perfect stop. Lots of jumpers, beer, women, beer and more women. Watched movies with the women last night while they all drank more beer. He slept in his bag. Took all the women for rides today with top of the head video cameras. Can't wait to see those shots. He adds that they were all beautiful girls. He is trying for Sullivan County or Casey, Ill tonight. Says he will get a hotel as he even admits he needs a scrub. Dennis: I gave him your phone # and you should expect a call from him. Said he will ask FAA for a flight into Creve Coeur w/o xponder. What a tour. Tour operations shack