Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 08/14/04


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:09 AM - Pee tube (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
     2. 09:31 AM - Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism (Ken Chambers)
     3. 09:49 AM - formula for arc for instrument panels and turtledeck curves (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
     4. 01:00 PM - formula for arc (Oscar Zuniga)
     5. 01:09 PM - Re: formula for arc (Jim Markle)
     6. 02:17 PM - Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism (N925WB1@aol.com)
     7. 03:17 PM - Re:formula for arc (Michael Green)
     8. 05:16 PM - Re: Hurricane Charley (Bert Conoly)
     9. 06:38 PM - Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism (John Ford)
    10. 06:40 PM - Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism (John Ford)
    11. 06:55 PM - Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism (John Ford)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:09:28 AM PST US
    ETAtAhUApWSofJ41MrIanIu9LbEC4CxaWYsCFFDYOMUsDSrWj557wRbCJm1ULAy0
    From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
    Subject: Pee tube
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) The ground communications tube comming threw the belly of the Beechcraft reminded me a story an old high school friends dad once told me. He was an A and P in Africa or Italy during WW 2 working on British Spitfires that were flown by american pilots. These planes were notorious for springing coolant leaks. The old hands told the newbies that the only way to tell if the coolant was leaking was to lick the belly of the plane. If the taste was sweet you had a glycol leak. If it tasted salty......they usually figured it out. Leon S. PS how did out Florida Pieters come threw the hurricane? Way to go Chck! Do not archive


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:31:28 AM PST US
    From: "Ken Chambers" <ken@prototype-ideas.com>
    Subject: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
    Jim I agree that cars and trucks being more dangerous than light aircraft in the hands of a terrorist. But these news guys make a living by entertaining as much as informing. And hijacked helicopters make much more entertaining television than hijacked pickups. Not saying it makes sense. Just the way it is in the news business - now more than ever. They have to watch their ratings so they look for sexy stories that boost their ratings. To me, most of the news these days seems more geared to conflict, sensationalism, and entertainment than to informing the public. So the helicopter episode doesn't surprise me. Ken in Austin, trying to figure out how to make my turtle deck a couple of inches taller and still look good. Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Dallas Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own news not report it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation. They continue to look at the smaller aircraft that can only do relatively minor damage. Remember this started by Hijackers taking Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas. Has NBC done a story on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have they done a story on how good the security is at your local bank? Put another way, If your dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup can carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage. Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done there are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get some real jail time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ford <mailto:Jford@indstate.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu> I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it. John (the former TV journalist) John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> sbobka@charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: info@nationalairtour.org Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism Subscriber Bulletin Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need to guard against them. Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another anti-aviation news story. We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers' money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just another version of "terror" themselves. Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be interested. Original Message: From: "Celeste Clark" Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE **Special NATA Member Notice** ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th. The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were apprehended. Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other facilities around the country. NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly, actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm. Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation Airports (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch Hotline at (866) GA SECURE. The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the St. Louis Downtown Airport follows: "Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they were driving a car licensed in a third state. Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs. After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives, and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card. The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage. They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack. I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country. Please help me spread the word to other airports." For additional information contact: Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs bvanemburgh@nata-online.org To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here ==================================================nbsp; entirely see Matronics ================================================== ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<========= ========================================< ">pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/s <http://www.matronics.com/subscription> List FAQ: http://www.matro Search <http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm> Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matron Browse <http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list> Digests: http://www.matron <http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list> Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo <http://www.matronics.com/archives> Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho <http://www.matronics.com/photoshare> List Specific: http://www.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list> Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema <http://www.matronics.com/emaillists> Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c================================================== ==== <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:49:55 AM PST US
    From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding@usmo.com>
    Subject: formula for arc for instrument panels and turtledeck curves
    I had been trying to figure out how to lay out the instrument panels and turtle deck curves for a while, but couldn't figure out the radii, especially when there were changes in width of the arc or height of it. Actually, I have been wanting a formula to do this for some time. One of the nail benders at work last week knew the formula and he shared it with me. Works like a charm. it is: the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared, divided by the width of the arc. I drilled a 1 X 2 out for a round pencil and cut a slot so it would fit snugly then just drove a finishing nail through the 1 X 2 the distance from the point to the correct radius. Works great and is free! Dennis


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:00:04 PM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: formula for arc
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Dennis wrote- >the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared, >divided by the width of the arc. Dennis, please clarify. I tried this with a 24" wide cockpit (24" wide arc), 6" high. That's (576+36)/24 and it yields a radius of 25-1/2"... which doesn't compute. The resulting arc actually has a radius of 15". What'd I do wrong? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:09:23 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: formula for arc
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com> I'll bet there's also a way to do it with a circle of string and two nails..... Hmmm, a changing radius....pretty close to an elipse, right? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: formula for arc > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> > > Dennis wrote- > > >the width of the arc squared plus the height of the arc squared, > >divided by the width of the arc. > > Dennis, please clarify. I tried this with a 24" wide cockpit (24" wide > arc), 6" high. That's (576+36)/24 and it yields a radius of 25-1/2"... > which doesn't compute. The resulting arc actually has a radius of 15". > What'd I do wrong? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:17:36 PM PST US
    From: N925WB1@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
    As a young person (25) it simply saddens me that our media giants feel it is necessary to scare their viewers. Why not run a story that makes people happy about airplanes, and life in general? Send an NBC reporter to the home of anyone on this list who's actively building their airplane, and do a special on how aviation brings people closer together. Do a story about the community that is the local airport. Just do something that's intended to make people feel good, not scared. One more reason why all those evening "news journal" shows have no appeal to so many in my generation. I've yet to meet a person in aviation that I would consider to be a "bad" person. We're a small group in a land of so many, but I know that ours are some of the best people out there. -Wayne Eventually I'll build a Piet...


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:17:08 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Green" <mmml@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Re: formula for arc
    I did a lot of head scratching on this one. ( I raised the turtle deck 1" above plans.) Here's the formula I found on the web. Works a treat! http://www.josephfusco.org/Tips/tip0018.html Mike Green Romsey, Victoria AUSTRALIA


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:16:40 PM PST US
    From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Hurricane Charley
    Pieters Lets don't forget that some of our listers live in south florida (and the eastern seaboard) and may have been impacted by the hurricane. Has anybody heard from Ted Brousseau or Dick Gillespie (Naples and Ft. Myers I think) - maybe some others I am leaving out? If you have heard from them, please let us (me) know - I'm not gonna call and load up the telephone circuits. There have been a lot of people impacted whose lives will be forever changed. Lets remember them in our thoughts and prayers. Bert


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:38:23 PM PST US
    From: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
    Subject: Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
    Jim, I partially agree with you. The proper way to do it would have been to coordinate with the FAA and DHS, as those agencies do spot checks (which they do). The reporters did not do anything illegal, and were stopped based upon racial/ethnic profiling (which is problematic at best - Tim McVeigh wouldn't have caught ANYONE'S attention) In that, I almost think NBC wanted them to get hassled. I agree that NBC was trying to get a scoop. I think their scoop is that GA is keenly interested in securing our aircraft from terrorist and other nefarious activities, and that the "airport watch" model works better than any rent-a-cop ever could. I believe it's useful for network television to learn the hard way that GA isn't going to be the problem, if they will actually report it that way rather than try to freak everybody out like they normally do anymore. To take it a step further, I think there are remarkably few real terrorist threats to our safety, regardless of what the government would like us to believe. It does trouble me greatly that we're focused on looking for ghosts over here while we're making ghosts out of our kids (and their kids) over there. If newsrooms were funded worth a crap by the mega-corporations that own them, then these guys would have been able to do actual research and reporting on actual problems instead of the "easy" story that doesn't cost anything but looks sexy. THAT's why TV news in America sucks so bad... And... GA passed the test... /end soapbox mode John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> BEC176@msn.com Friday, August 13, 2004 10:35:58 PM >>> John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own news not report it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation. They continue to look at the smaller aircraft that can only do relatively minor damage. Remember this started by Hijackers taking Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas. Has NBC done a story on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have they done a story on how good the security is at your local bank? Put another way, If your dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup can carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage. Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done there are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get some real jail time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ford Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu> I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it. John (the former TV journalist) John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> sbobka@charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: info@nationalairtour.org Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism Subscriber Bulletin Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need to guard against them. Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another anti-aviation news story. We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers' money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just another version of "terror" themselves. Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be interested. Original Message: From: "Celeste Clark" Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE **Special NATA Member Notice** ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th. The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were apprehended. Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other facilities around the country. NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly, actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm. Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation Airports (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch Hotline at (866) GA SECURE. The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the St. Louis Downtown Airport follows: "Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they were driving a car licensed in a third state. Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs. After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives, and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card. The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage. They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack. I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country. Please help me spread the word to other airports." For additional information contact: Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs bvanemburgh@nata-online.org To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here ==================================================nbsp; entirely see Matronics ================================================== ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<=================================================< ">pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matro Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matron Browse Digests: http://www.matron Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report <A " http://www.matronics.com/c======================================================


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:40:18 PM PST US
    From: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
    Subject: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
    Ken, I'm sure you'll still look great no matter how tall your turtledeck is... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> ken@prototype-ideas.com Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:31:23 AM >>> Jim I agree that cars and trucks being more dangerous than light aircraft in the hands of a terrorist. But these news guys make a living by entertaining as much as informing. And hijacked helicopters make much more entertaining television than hijacked pickups. Not saying it makes sense. Just the way it is in the news business * now more than ever. They have to watch their ratings so they look for sexy stories that boost their ratings. To me, most of the news these days seems more geared to conflict, sensationalism, and entertainment than to informing the public. So the helicopter episode doesn't surprise me. Ken in Austin, trying to figure out how to make my turtle deck a couple of inches taller and still look good. Do not archive From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Dallas Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own news not report it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation. They continue to look at the smaller aircraft that can only do relatively minor damage. Remember this started by Hijackers taking Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas. Has NBC done a story on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have they done a story on how good the security is at your local bank? Put another way, If your dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup can carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage. Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done there are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get some real jail time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ford Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu> I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it. John (the former TV journalist) John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> sbobka@charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: info@nationalairtour.org Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism Subscriber Bulletin Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need to guard against them. Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another anti-aviation news story. We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers' money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just another version of "terror" themselves. Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be interested. Original Message: From: "Celeste Clark" Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE **Special NATA Member Notice** ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th. The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were apprehended. Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other facilities around the country. NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly, actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm. Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation Airports (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch Hotline at (866) GA SECURE. The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the St. Louis Downtown Airport follows: "Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they were driving a car licensed in a third state. Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs. After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives, and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card. The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage. They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack. I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country. Please help me spread the word to other airports." For additional information contact: Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs bvanemburgh@nata-online.org To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here nbsp; entirely see Matronics ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<< ">pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matro Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matron Browse Digests: http://www.matron Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:55:35 PM PST US
    From: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
    Subject: Re: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism
    And if I may add, let's not forget that it's our government that has been telling us for the past couple of weeks that terrorists are looking to use helicopters... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> Jford@indstate.edu Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:37:33 PM >>> Jim, I partially agree with you. The proper way to do it would have been to coordinate with the FAA and DHS, as those agencies do spot checks (which they do). The reporters did not do anything illegal, and were stopped based upon racial/ethnic profiling (which is problematic at best - Tim McVeigh wouldn't have caught ANYONE'S attention) In that, I almost think NBC wanted them to get hassled. I agree that NBC was trying to get a scoop. I think their scoop is that GA is keenly interested in securing our aircraft from terrorist and other nefarious activities, and that the "airport watch" model works better than any rent-a-cop ever could. I believe it's useful for network television to learn the hard way that GA isn't going to be the problem, if they will actually report it that way rather than try to freak everybody out like they normally do anymore. To take it a step further, I think there are remarkably few real terrorist threats to our safety, regardless of what the government would like us to believe. It does trouble me greatly that we're focused on looking for ghosts over here while we're making ghosts out of our kids (and their kids) over there. If newsrooms were funded worth a crap by the mega-corporations that own them, then these guys would have been able to do actual research and reporting on actual problems instead of the "easy" story that doesn't cost anything but looks sexy. THAT's why TV news in America sucks so bad... And... GA passed the test... /end soapbox mode John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> BEC176@msn.com Friday, August 13, 2004 10:35:58 PM >>> John, I have to disagree with you. NBC is looking to make their own news not report it. This is a slap in the face to General Aviation. They continue to look at the smaller aircraft that can only do relatively minor damage. Remember this started by Hijackers taking Large Airliners, NOT small helicoptors or Cessnas. Has NBC done a story on how easy it is to rent a Ryder truck???? Have they done a story on how good the security is at your local bank? Put another way, If your dog poops on the floor do you spank your kids? My old junk pickup can carry far more than a small aircraft and do considerable more damage. Have you been paying attention to Iraq, some of the major damage done there are with car bombs. Cars not even trucks. I hope those two get some real jail time and NBC get hit with some hefty fines. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ford Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: NBC News Practices Terrorism --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu> I hope NBC has the guts to run the story anyway, demonstrating how it isn't such a piece of cake to hijack a helicopter after all. What they did is something that probably needed to be done, assuming they run the story. If they don't run the story, then they have zero integrity. I don't normally watch TV news, so if anybody sees this run (or a promo for it) then let me know because I'd like to see how they handle it. John (the former TV journalist) John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> sbobka@charter.net Friday, August 13, 2004 12:48:24 PM >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: info@nationalairtour.org Subject: NBC News Practices Terrorism Subscriber Bulletin Here at the Aviation Foundation of America (National Air Tour) we are concerned about the preservation and sharing of America's great aviation heritage. Acts of terrorism threaten our aviation heritage and we need to guard against them. Today we received notification of another act of "terrorism", this one was conducted by NBC NEWS. NBC, acting as terrorists, tried to create their own act of terror for the sake of creating yet another anti-aviation news story. We have received the e-mail below describing NBC's abuse of taxpayers' money and tying up law enforcement for the sake of their own agenda. It appears we not only have to be watching for terrorists at our airports but also for NBC News. In the final analysis they are attempting just another version of "terror" themselves. Please read the e-mail below and forward it to anyone you feel would be interested. Original Message: From: "Celeste Clark" Subject: NATA Member SPECIAL NOTICE **Special NATA Member Notice** ATTEMPTED SECURITY BREACH AT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORT In an effort to show allegedly lax security procedures, NBC News attempted to penetrate a charter helicopter operation at St. Louis Downtown Airport on Wednesday, August 11th. The attempt was brought to a halt, and the individuals were apprehended. Though this breach of security was stopped, it was indicated that NBC and other news agencies might attempt to repeat their efforts at other facilities around the country. NATA urges operators to continue to be on the alert for security breaches by news agencies "testing the waters" and, more importantly, actual terrorist organizations or individuals intent on doing harm. Operators nationwide are encouraged to review their security procedures and reinforce their security policies on a regular basis. NATA Members should review the TSA's Security Guidelines for General Aviation Airports (http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1113.xml). Any suspicious activity should be reported immediately to the Airport Watch Hotline at (866) GA SECURE. The account of the August 11 incident, provided by the director of the St. Louis Downtown Airport follows: "Earlier today two Middle Eastern men attempted to penetrate our security. They telephoned one of my helicopter FBOs and asked about a charter flight. After discussion of price and directions to the business, they arrived an hour later. When the office agent asked how they were going to pay for the flight they produced cash. When asked for ID, they produced driver's licenses from two different states and they were driving a car licensed in a third state. Things didn't smell right so the mechanic took them into the hangar to see the aircraft while the office person called the FBI and local police. The helicopter they were going to fly was blocked in by other aircraft so the mechanic was able to stall them by having to slowly shuffle the blocking planes. Meanwhile the two men got their backpacks and odd-shaped luggage out of their car. Soon the local police arrived and they were hauled off to jail in handcuffs. After a little time behind bars, the FBI verified that the two men were employed by NBC New York and were on assignment to get a story of how easy it is to charter a helicopter for a terrorist attack. The men had stayed in a local hotel and purchased box cutters, leather-man knives, and other potential weapons at the local Wal-Mart using a credit card. The box cutters had been hidden in the lining at the bottom of the backpacks and the other weapons were hidden throughout their baggage. They had audio taped the telephone conversation with Arlene and were going to use it as part of a national news story about how easy it is to get information and directions to the location of the helicopter and then hijack it to commit a terrorist attack. I doubt they will be back at our airport soon and this is a story that will never be seen since they were caught. A very "well-done" to my FBO and staff and the local FBI and police response forces. We have since learned that we were the first airport where this had been attempted and NBC planned to attempt similar penetration stories around the country. Please help me spread the word to other airports." For additional information contact: Beth Van Emburgh Manager, Government & Industry Affairs bvanemburgh@nata-online.org To unsubscribe from these newsletters please click here ==================================================nbsp; entirely see Matronics ================================================== ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<=================================================< ">pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matro Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matron Browse Digests: http://www.matron Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report <A : http://www.matronics.com/c======================================================




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