Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:36 AM - Piet building tips (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 08:18 AM - engine type (Michael D Cuy)
3. 08:27 AM - Re: long cross country in an Air Camper (Hodgson, Mark O)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: long cross country in an Air Camper (DJ Vegh)
5. 09:22 AM - trim (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: long cross country in an Air Camper (del magsam)
7. 10:36 AM - Re: long cross country in an Air Camper (Christian Bobka)
8. 11:47 AM - to trim or not to trim (Michael D Cuy)
9. 11:48 AM - Re: engine type (Larry Nelson)
10. 12:00 PM - Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? (Richard Navratil)
11. 12:13 PM - Re: to trim or not to trim (John Ford)
12. 12:17 PM - Re: engine type (Michael D Cuy)
13. 12:24 PM - Re: trim (walt evans)
14. 12:49 PM - Re: engine type (Larry Nelson)
15. 01:20 PM - the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Michael D Cuy)
16. 01:48 PM - Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? (Mike King)
17. 02:16 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (DJ Vegh)
18. 02:30 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Jim Markle)
19. 02:30 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Jim Markle)
20. 02:52 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Christian Bobka)
21. 03:03 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
22. 03:19 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Mike Whaley)
23. 03:48 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Mike)
24. 03:49 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
25. 04:11 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (dave rowe)
26. 04:30 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com)
27. 04:51 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (DJ Vegh)
28. 05:37 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (cgalley)
29. 06:15 PM - Re: Question from eBay Member (Jim Markle)
30. 06:24 PM - Ok, I brought it up.... (Jim Markle)
31. 08:20 PM - Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? (Mike Luther)
32. 08:32 PM - Re: long cross country in an Air Camper (Mike Luther)
33. 09:16 PM - Let's all report the plan-stealing scum on eBay! (Mike Whaley)
34. 09:19 PM - Fw: [in] Thank You for Your Report (Community Watch) (KMM127825781V88783L0KM) (Mike Whaley)
35. 09:37 PM - Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Piet building tips |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
I just have to mention a great source of building tips to those who may be
new on this list or to those who may have forgotten. That source is Mike
Cuy's video. I just pulled it out again this past weekend (for the
umpteenth time) so I could find the segment where Mike helps his wife into
the passenger 'pit, so I could show my buddy Charlie how you get passengers
into the front hole the easy way. True, Mike's plane has the spoked
"motorcycle" tires to step on which gives a little additional lift, but the
technique is basically the same.
Anyway, there are so many little details of construction, tips, and just
generally "yeah, I'll have to remember that" type of things in the video
that make it a most worthwhile expenditure and addition to your homebuilding
library. The first segment is a walkie-talk-around of the airplane as Mike
shows you all the fine points of the bird, and the last segment is a
detailed account of the construction. Very good documentation of his
project and very educational and inspiring. And of course when it's raining
outside and you can't work on your airplane, or haven't been in the shop for
months and need some encouragement, you just fast forward to about 1800 on
the counter and go make some smoke with Mike as he terrorizes the
neighborhood with low passes at high speeds with smoke pouring out the back!
I'm thinking of hosting a "Pietenpol Night" for one of our EAA 35
meetings, where I just give rides in the afternoon and let folks look all
over the airplane, then we play Mike's video for the evening's program.
Parts of it, at least.
PS on the inflight meals, we down here in Texas have a great advantage,
called "breakfast tacos". They are individually wrapped in aluminum foil,
you can get whatever you want inside them, can be eaten with one hand, make
a complete and nutritious balanced meal (because the FDA says so ;o), you
can ball the foil up when you're done, you can eat however much you want and
re-wrap the rest for later, and there's usually no mess to clean up
afterward. Unless you get those juicy tacos filled with stuff that drips.
But anyway, my point is that they are the perfect in-flight food for
traveling. They don't get hurt if you squoosh them, aren't too bad even
when cold (but can be kept warm in cold weather by just carrying them inside
your jacket). Now if I could just figure out how to make hot coffee that
was the consistency of jelly so it wouldn't spill, could be squeezed from a
tube, and was not a diuretic-!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Larry-- I have a 65 hp Cont. engine with no electric, no radio, no lights,
no instrument in the front seat, and a 632 lb empty weight. My cockpit is
per plans--the short or 1933 Improved Air Camper plans.
Mike C.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
start in the next couple of months).
Mark Hodgson
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has elevator
trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
trim never changed.
I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
>
> Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> start in the next couple of months).
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
>in one's Piet?
I haven't done any X-C flying in my Piet yet, but can tell you what my ferry
pilot told me about it after flying a bunch of hours in it. He said Corky
had really put a nifty trim setup on it, very useful and effective. I know
Mike Cuy's Piet also has trim and he uses it to good advantage too.
My ferry pilot also said his leg got tired after a while in the air and
suggested rudder trim, but then again the rudder in this airplane is
installed exactly on centerline with no offset and it may be that a tad of
offset may eliminate that easier than a rudder trim mechanism or even a
bendable piece of metal on the trailing edge of the rudder.
Mike C.? Steve E.? Chuck "Mr. America"? What say about trim?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
I had a 46 tcraft and used the trim all of the time, It worked well and lessoned
the stick pressures nicely, I think rudder trim would be very usefull also,
every plane I have flown needs pedal pressure one way or the other even in straight
flight.
Del
DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has elevator
trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
trim never changed.
I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hodgson, Mark O"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O"
>
> Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> start in the next couple of months).
>
> Mark Hodgson
>
>
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
d="scan'208"; a="209288240:sNHT15053510"
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" <sbobka@charter.net>
With the exception of the rare use of a 100% symetrical airfoil (like on a
late pitts), every airplane will only be in trim at one airspeed for its CG
position. The 100% symetrical airfoil has no camber, hence no center of
pressure (CP) travel with changes in angle of attack (which is determined
directly by airspeed). As you add more and more camber, the fore and aft
center of pressure travel on the wing between high and low AOAs gets greater
and greater.
The Taylorcraft uses the NACA 23012 airfoil and does not have as much CP
travel as does the Piet's airfoil which has a tremendous amount of camber.
An added trim system would make the aircraft more pilot friendly throughout
a large airspeed (AOA) range.
However, as the first paragraph says, every airplane will only be in trim at
one airspeed for its CG position. If you plan to fly your piet at the same
CG location and at the same speed day in and day out, then the rigging of
the decalage angle between the wing and the horizontal stabilizer will take
care of the trim. You set these angles at time of rigging, tweaking them
throughout the testing period until you are satisfied the plane can fly
hands off at your favorite power setting and AOA.
But if you plan to fly the aircraft long hours at many different, wide
ranging CGs, then a trim system is in order.
There is nothing worse than a long flight in an airplane that you can't
trim.
I believe that Mike C. has a simple bungie arrangement to give the stick a
little pull one way or another. This is used in many aircraft types and is
sufficient.
Chris Bobka
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> I am not putting trim in mine. I just got back from a 5 day weekend of
> flying my cousins 1946 BC-12D T-craft off his grass strip. It has
elevator
> trim but I never used in once. From 55mph on final to 105 in cruise the
> trim never changed.
>
> I think that aircraft as light as these are can do without trim.
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson@bu.edu>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long cross country in an Air Camper
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hodgson, Mark O"
<mhodgson@bu.edu>
> >
> > Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> > in one's Piet? I've seen several kinds used, wehereas BHP didn't
> > specify. Is trim just generally unnecessary or futile in something as
> > light as a Piet? I know that the Murphy Maverick doesn't have it nor do
> > a lot of other very light kits. But I have fantasies of doing long
> > x-countries and any little comfort might help, and depending on the
> > mechanism used it might affect construction of the tail (which I want to
> > start in the next couple of months).
> >
> > Mark Hodgson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | to trim or not to trim |
<002201c4853d$b24c4a60$0564a8c0@rdci.az.home.com>
If you have a nose tank in your Piet rather than a wing tank, the CG
changes will be much more noticeable as you burn off that
weight in the nose. (esp. if you are like me at 200 lbs.) Someone had
told me or I had read where Bernard installed trim
(oh gosh, really ?) on one of his planes by either using bungees or
springs like Chris mentioned back to some tabs he welded to
his elevator bellcrank. That is what I did and used Home Depot springs
and cables that go to a lever underneath my seat.
The lever puts tension on either the up or down tabs to lessen the stick
pressures. I really like having the trim and use it alot.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't stay in position (I devised a
kind of friction lock for it that is pretty lame) but all that would
take is a few detents or notches and I've just never taken the time to do
that. I know of a few builders like Jim Markle and I think Jack Phillips
who are (might be Jack ?) incorporating trim on their Air Campers.
Mike C.
(trim is real handy on those long x-countries when you are trying to pee in
a bottle and just flying with your feet, man !
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
So, Mike, your fuselage is the same length as the
Model A powered design? I am considering buying Howard
Henderson's old plane which is in Virginia. It has the
Model A. I talked to Chuck at Brodhead and he was sort
of soured on the Model A. He changed his out in due
course to the 65. So, I assume he has the "plans"
fuselage as well.
Thanks for your help. I am just an observer at this
time. I am so busy in my business that I can't see
getting into the building process in my spare time,
which I have none of. I have also been bit by the
Cessna 195 decease, again, and this time it has stuck
with me. I have restored a T Craft BC12D and a
TriPacer. I enjoy this stuff. But I also want to go
flying.
Having learned to fly in a Champ back in '66, I love
that 65 engine. If you have the stock fuselage, how
did you allow for the lighter engine?
Thanks again.
--- Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Larry-- I have a 65 hp Cont. engine with no
> electric, no radio, no lights,
> no instrument in the front seat, and a 632 lb empty
> weight. My cockpit is
> per plans--the short or 1933 Improved Air Camper
> plans.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy and Chris
I belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that it could use
many of the J-3 parts and make the building process easier.
In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy Clark
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Dick,
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska.
My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states.
When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now (taking
it from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrens
hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their radiothons
and a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me where
I lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying
to get their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society
being what it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they
would no longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance
(read: public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats,
and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight
for any charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated"
with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won't
get into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your opinion
on using Cub struts and landing gear?
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: to trim or not to trim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
If you look in the matronics photoshare for pictures I posted after
Brodhead '03, I believe I took a shot or two of an interesting trim
system on a red piet with no cowling which used an extra airfoil just
over the tailwheel and below the elevator, which has a separate linkage
to the cockpit. Whew, how's that for a run-on sentence...
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:46:56 PM
>>>
If you have a nose tank in your Piet rather than a wing tank, the CG
changes will be much more noticeable as you burn off that
weight in the nose. (esp. if you are like me at 200 lbs.) Someone
had
told me or I had read where Bernard installed trim
(oh gosh, really ?) on one of his planes by either using bungees or
springs like Chris mentioned back to some tabs he welded to
his elevator bellcrank. That is what I did and used Home Depot
springs
and cables that go to a lever underneath my seat.
The lever puts tension on either the up or down tabs to lessen the
stick
pressures. I really like having the trim and use it alot.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't stay in position (I devised
a
kind of friction lock for it that is pretty lame) but all that would
take is a few detents or notches and I've just never taken the time to
do
that. I know of a few builders like Jim Markle and I think Jack
Phillips
who are (might be Jack ?) incorporating trim on their Air Campers.
Mike C.
(trim is real handy on those long x-countries when you are trying to
pee in
a bottle and just flying with your feet, man !
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Larry---you can put a Model A on the long fuselage too---have seen many of
them, but mine is
the 1933 version. It is about 9" shorter than the 1966 long
version. Howard's old plane is the
short version like I have and is a real steal for the price he's
asking. That would be one sweet airplane
to have if you want a Ford Piet. Howard and Grant MacLaren built that
plane together and are Ford
experts, bar none so that engine was done right and should last a long
time. John Strutman used to fly
Howard's plane for him from St. Louis to Brodhead for several years in a
row and he would give rides and it
performed pretty good with two people in it from what I recall.
Seems to me that Chuck Gantzer has the long or 1966 fuselage. I'm 99% sure
of that.
Several Cont. builders have or are making their motor mounts longer than
the plans show to keep the CG in
the proper range with the short fuselage. Frank Pavliga had to add 9 or
11 lbs. of lead to his motor mount on his
long fuse 65 Cont. Air Camper since as I recall he didn't make the mount
longer. Since I weigh a fair amount I made
my motor mount 1" longer than plans and slanted the wing back 4" aft of the
cabane struts being vertical to get my CG right.
To do it over again I would have made the mount 3" longer and that way I
would not have had to move the wing back quite so far.
Brian Kenny in Ontario made his short fuse 65 Air Camper motor mount NINE
inches longer than plans and his cabane struts remain
vertical with no slant back to correct for CG. The plane flies fine.
Mike C.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
The max I've been up is about 1:15 and the very slight fwd stick that I
have to hold does get annoying after awhile. I find that with holding the
pressure you kind of lose your touch in that arm. Have to change hands for
awhile and shake off the other. I would like to add trim if I didn't have
to cut anything.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: trim
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> >Anyone want to comment on the general usefulness of having elevator trim
> >in one's Piet?
>
> I haven't done any X-C flying in my Piet yet, but can tell you what my
ferry
> pilot told me about it after flying a bunch of hours in it. He said Corky
> had really put a nifty trim setup on it, very useful and effective. I
know
> Mike Cuy's Piet also has trim and he uses it to good advantage too.
>
> My ferry pilot also said his leg got tired after a while in the air and
> suggested rudder trim, but then again the rudder in this airplane is
> installed exactly on centerline with no offset and it may be that a tad of
> offset may eliminate that easier than a rudder trim mechanism or even a
> bendable piece of metal on the trailing edge of the rudder.
>
> Mike C.? Steve E.? Chuck "Mr. America"? What say about trim?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Thanks for that. I need to contact Joe Santana and get
some idea from him on the condition of the covering,
which I have no idea what Howard used, whether he went
synthetic or what??? I did, however, what some idea,
which you have given me, that if the Model A craps
out, that a 65 Cont CAN be installed in it's place.
Larry
--- Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Larry---you can put a Model A on the long fuselage
> too---have seen many of
> them, but mine is
> the 1933 version. It is about 9" shorter than the
> 1966 long
> version. Howard's old plane is the
> short version like I have and is a real steal for
> the price he's
> asking. That would be one sweet airplane
> to have if you want a Ford Piet. Howard and Grant
> MacLaren built that
> plane together and are Ford
> experts, bar none so that engine was done right and
> should last a long
> time. John Strutman used to fly
> Howard's plane for him from St. Louis to Brodhead
> for several years in a
> row and he would give rides and it
> performed pretty good with two people in it from
> what I recall.
>
> Seems to me that Chuck Gantzer has the long or 1966
> fuselage. I'm 99% sure
> of that.
>
> Several Cont. builders have or are making their
> motor mounts longer than
> the plans show to keep the CG in
> the proper range with the short fuselage. Frank
> Pavliga had to add 9 or
> 11 lbs. of lead to his motor mount on his
> long fuse 65 Cont. Air Camper since as I recall he
> didn't make the mount
> longer. Since I weigh a fair amount I made
> my motor mount 1" longer than plans and slanted the
> wing back 4" aft of the
> cabane struts being vertical to get my CG right.
> To do it over again I would have made the mount 3"
> longer and that way I
> would not have had to move the wing back quite so
> far.
> Brian Kenny in Ontario made his short fuse 65 Air
> Camper motor mount NINE
> inches longer than plans and his cabane struts
> remain
> vertical with no slant back to correct for CG.
> The plane flies fine.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol
plans. We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2487080314&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy and Chris,
My Grega has Cub gear as well as other Cub parts. I am a
believer in Cub
gear...Lord knows it has been given a workout (bounces)
Good luck.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Navratil
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Stacy and Chris
I belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that
it could use many of the J-3 parts and make the building process
easier.
In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Stacy <mailto:stacy@unicom-alaska.com> Clark
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Dick,
Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for
here in Alaska. My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C.
via all the lower 48 states. When I originally started
developing this project about a year ago now (taking it from
planning to action in other words) it was for a well known
childrens hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had
heard one of their radiothons and a letter from a dying boy to
his mom...and you might say hit me where I lived. Anyway, over
this past year I've been working with them trying to get their
official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society
being what it is however, the final word came down about a month
ago that they would no longer allow "any" point to point fund
rasiers because of insurance (read: public relations) concerns.
That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats, and even bikes. But
oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight for any
charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially
unaffiliated" with any charity. There's obviously far more to it
than that, but I won't get into that here. So, going back to the
original question, what's your opinion on using Cub struts and
landing gear?
Stacy :-)
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the
impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report violations
of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal use
of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I sent a note to eBay......
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I sent a note to eBay......
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
d="scan'217,208"; a="211794689:sNHT24171230"
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Are you sure the plans are copyrighted?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
WOW. DJ.... Thats a fantastic letter. You did your homework too. You shoulda
been a lawyer. Could I pay you to send periodic nastygrams to my ex whenever
she needs to be put back into her place?
--
Terry B
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Sorry guys, been thru this with Uncle Willie (he sells scores of photocopied
model plans and makes hundreds or thousands of bucks a month doing it) and
it's not likely that eBay will do diddly-squat... remember, they make money
for every auction... unless perhaps we get the copyright holders themselves
to complain or even send a letter from a lawyer.
OTOH, maybe a lot of folks complaining at once might work?
Here's what the eBay user agreement says
(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html):
-----------------------
5.4 VeRO Program. eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program works to
ensure that listed items do not infringe upon the copyright, trademark or
other rights of third parties. VeRO program participants and other rights
owners can report listings offering infringing items, and request that such
items be removed. VeRO program participants and other rights owners may have
limited access to some of your personal information as described in the
Privacy Policy at (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html).
14. Legal Compliance.
You shall comply with all applicable domestic and international laws,
statutes, ordinances and regulations regarding your use of our service and
your bidding on, listing, purchase, solicitation of offers to purchase, and
sale of items.
-----------------------
http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/contact-rights-owner.html
Reporting Listings When You Are Not The Rights Owner
Unfortunately, if you are not an intellectual property rights owner you
cannot report listings as potentially infringing through eBay's VeRO
Program.
However, you can still help by getting in touch with the rights owner and
encouraging them to contact us.
------------------------
In short, eBay doesn't give a hoot about copyright fraud, unless they get a
complaint from the Pietenpol family themselves. Even then, don't expect them
to care. Several model designers and magazines contacted them about Uncle
Willie selling copies of their plans, with ZERO action taken by eBay. eBay
is arguably a party to illegal activity if you ask me, but they can afford
to be with all the $$$ they make on the tens of thousands of illegal items
posted every day.
I don't beleive that anyone who does this either "doesn't realize" it's
wrong, nor do they ever care. $1.50 in effort = $35 profit, with everyone
else doing all the work and little fear of consequences (in this world
anyway.) Sad but true.
Sorry guys, it stinks to high heaven, but that's what it looks like to me.
-M
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I sent a note to eBay......
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's
strictly prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to
section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and
running I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol
builders/owners who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email
list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal
plans. The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=248708031
4&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
Keep in mind that BHP was not the author of the plans most of us use. BHP was
the designer of the airplane but Orrin Hoopman authored the plans and he was the
original holder of the copyright which by default goes to the author of a copyrightable
work.
The original plans were first published, for the sake of consideration for copyright,
after 1923 and before 1968. At the time of first publication in the thirties,
the Copyright Act of 1909 was in force. Under that law, if a work was
published "with notice" of copyright, the copyright term was a flat 28 years
from publication. If Orrin, or Bernie, first published the plans without that
notice, the plans immediately entered the public domain. In either case, the
copyright for the plans is very likely now expired.
The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1998, which extended copyrights to the
author's life plus seventy years, only applied to copyrights then in effect,
so would not apply to Pietenpol plans.
I'm willing to bet that, even though it is really bad form to sell the copied plans
and nobody except some Belize expatriots would try to build an airplane from
such a set of plans, eBay's lawyers have already cleared the sale.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
If you look at the reprints, their is no copyright. Don't don't they run
out ?
And no, i have nothing to do with this man. And I have not bought plans from
him. Is he the same man that sales other plans from the EAA reprints?
Howdy
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: dave rowe <rowed044@shaw.ca>
In Canada, we could call the better business bureau, can the same not be
done in the US? As far as I am concerned this is fraud and copyright
infringement.
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol
> plans. We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
>
> Mike C.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2487080314&category=26441&sspagename=WDVW
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
I sent this guy a warning day before yesterday. I also asked him what his
physical address was so I could notify the feds about his copyright violations.
This guy stinks. Anyone putting beans (or in my case tacos) on the table and
earning a living by selling their own creative/intellectual material deserves
to be protected (as in the case of the Pietenpol clan).
Please dump on this guy in a big way and send complaints to EBAY advising
they have a pirate using their service.
Taco Loco
Central Texas
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
After looking at his other auctions I noticed he was selling copies of RCM Magazine
model airplane plans. RCM has a notice on their website warning against
such plans for sale.
I contacted the editor-in-chief there just a couple hours ago. He said that their
plans are protected under legal copyright and he hand it off to the proper
department to pursue it.
Of course this does nothing for the sale of the Piet plans but it sounds like maybe
this guy will be paid a visit by some high priced magazine attorneys....
if nothing else but to just give him a scare.
With 300+ feedbacks and selling plans at an average price of about $20, this guy
has scammed rightful owners of a minimum of $6,000.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Keep in mind that BHP was not the author of the plans most of us use. BHP was
the designer of the airplane but Orrin Hoopman authored the plans and he was
the original holder of the copyright which by default goes to the author of a
copyrightable work.
The original plans were first published, for the sake of consideration for copyright,
after 1923 and before 1968. At the time of first publication in the
thirties, the Copyright Act of 1909 was in force. Under that law, if a work was
published "with notice" of copyright, the copyright term was a flat 28 years
from publication. If Orrin, or Bernie, first published the plans without that
notice, the plans immediately entered the public domain. In either case, the
copyright for the plans is very likely now expired.
The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1998, which extended copyrights to
the author's life plus seventy years, only applied to copyrights then in effect,
so would not apply to Pietenpol plans.
I'm willing to bet that, even though it is really bad form to sell the copied
plans and nobody except some Belize expatriots would try to build an airplane
from such a set of plans, eBay's lawyers have already cleared the sale.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
I just sent him my nasty email
ebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictly
prohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.
everyone else should send this guy an email
I sent him this:
_________
You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?
Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?
Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"
also looky here:
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.html
The Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report
violations of intellectual property and internet crimes.
I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and running
I will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/owners
who all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.
While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal
use of thier website.
you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.
The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.
23:59 remaining
_________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
One of you might point out his liability if some one builds from these plans and
has a problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
wow this guy is a piece of work... he's selling copied plans of all kinds of
things... RCM model plans (RCM Magazine would stick thier attorneys on him if
they knew about it I'm sure)
take a look at his feedback and prior auctions... all of them 100% illegal
http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&useridmgp60
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Question from eBay Member |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
At first I wondered why someone would make copies of something they had no
right to copy.....and then sell those copies. Frankly, I had hoped that you
had some kind of right legally sell copies of the plans. Do you? The
Pietenpol family definitely does....
Have you considered though that someone might actually build a plane from
these plans??? and possibly have a problem with that plane???....YOU'LL then
have a problem far greater than any ethical issues you've obviously learned
to live with......
Your moral fiber and lack of ethics won't mean much when someone has a
problem with a plane that is built from plans that can be traced back to
you.....
If the moral issue is lost on you, think about your legal liability when
someone is injured in a plane built to plans they bought from you.....
Do you REALLY want that involvement?
---------------
Dear dfwplt,
All the Pientepol plans I have for sale are copies of the originals. Hope
this helps.
To respond to this eBay member go to:
http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/ebayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=mgp60&frm=-1&iid=-1&de=off&redirect=0&contactsubmit=Contact+Member
Thank you,
mgp60
---------------
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Ok, I brought it up.... |
so I'll (hopefully) close it in some fashion.....se we can get back to the FUN
stuff!!!! :-)
My note (cc'd to the list) will likely fall on deaf ears, but you never know.
That was a very good point Cy brought up.
Jim in Plano.....just finished sanding the FINAL wing tip bow.....definitely better
way for me to use my energy than even THINKING about these low life peckerwoods
that sell copies of things they don't own!!! aaarrrggghhh
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? |
Stacy,
Used (narrow )inspected Piper Cub struts: Yes
Used Piper Cub gear: No
A65 Continental: Certifiable, Yes, Jack-leg, No
Missive: Attitude, YES YES Enthusiasm YES YES YES
Schedule: 20+ hours/week nonstop for two years with no "Grand Piano" quality.
We know that you can do it!!!!
Mike Luther
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: long cross country in an Air Camper |
Mike,
You answered my question perfectly, thanks. I got my Pilots' license after I
started my Piet and I have never been up in one, so, that was why I asked.
Mike Luther
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Let's all report the plan-stealing scum on eBay! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Here's where we can report this guy. If everyone goes there and does it,
maybe it'll red-flag his account and they'll take some action. If not,
you've lost a couple of minutes and at least tried to help out the Pietenpol
family in return for their continuing support of this community.
First, go here (you might have to log into your eBay account first):
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unauthorized-copies.html
Then click "Report listing violations or problems with another eBay member."
(near the bottom of the page)
Then copy and past in the following auction numbers:
2487080314 , 2487080313 , 5915043024 , 5915043023 , 3694217879
Click the "Send" button and off it goes. Maybe it'll help... I have doubts
but who knows. If they get a few dozen similar reports then perhaps it'll
have an effect.
Feel free to look up "Uncle Willie" and report him too... he's a far bigger
offender in fact.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fw: [in] Thank You for Your Report (Community Watch) |
(KMM127825781V88783L0KM)
1.3 SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID Subject contains a unique ID
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Here's the email I got in response to my report.
-Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: eBay Customer Support <rswebhelp@ebay.com>
Subject: Thank You for Your Report (Community Watch)
(KMM127825781V88783L0KM)
> We will review the listing(s) you have reported for violations of our
> Unauthorized Copies Policy. We often rely on members like you to bring
> such violations to our attention.
>
> In light of eBay's privacy policy, we cannot share with you any action
> taken by eBay with respect to this listing. If we determine that the
> listing violates this policy, we will remove the listing or suspend the
> seller. Account suspensions are usually reserved for those sellers that
> repeatedly disregard policy.
>
> If the item you reported does not appear on its face to violate this
> policy, we may refer it to the intellectual property rights owner for
> review. If the rights owner has a good faith belief that the item is
> infringing, they may choose to send eBay a formal request to remove the
> listing. For more information on eBays cooperation with rights owners,
> please visit:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html
>
> For more information on eBay's Unauthorized Copies Policy, please visit:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unauthorized-copies.html
>
> Thank you for your report.
>
> Regards,
>
> The eBay Community Watch Team
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again |
The only effective way I can see is to fill up his feedback list with
strong negatives but that would entail buying the plans to get
access. I believe there's a limit to the number of negatives, at
which point he could be kicked out of ebay. I don't have time
right now to find the info. It's there on ebay somewhere.
Clif
"NOT HAPPY!! These are stolen copies of the originals! " would
get the attention of those in charge I think.
Guys-- the jerk on ebay is selling another pirated copy of Pietenpol plans.
We should inundate him with guilt-trip e-mails I say.
Mike C.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd1&item2487080314&category26441&sspagenameWDVW
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|