---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/21/04: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:58 AM - Re: Solo propping techniques??? (Rcaprd@aol.com) 2. 09:20 AM - Re: Solo propping techniques??? (TomTravis@aol.com) 3. 09:28 AM - Re: Solo propping techniques??? (TomTravis@aol.com) 4. 09:48 AM - At least (Christian Bobka) 5. 10:50 AM - Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? (Stacy Clark) 6. 10:53 AM - Re: Piper landing gear and wing struts? (Stacy Clark) 7. 10:59 AM - [ Ed Grentzer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 8. 11:03 AM - [ Matt Naiva ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 9. 11:13 AM - Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites (Stacy Clark) 10. 02:01 PM - Re: At least (TomTravis@aol.com) 11. 02:06 PM - Re: Solo propping techniques??? (Larry Ragan) 12. 04:24 PM - Re: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA newsletters... (Jim Markle) 13. 05:12 PM - Re: Solo propping techniques??? (TomTravis@aol.com) 14. 05:35 PM - Re: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites (Peter W Johnson) 15. 06:10 PM - Re: Solo propping techniques??? (Larry Nelson) 16. 06:37 PM - Hand propping (Craig Lawler) 17. 07:08 PM - Re: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites (Stacy Clark) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:28 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques??? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 8/20/04 8:18:21 AM Central Daylight Time, lnelson208@yahoo.com writes: << Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a Pietenpol without any innocent bystanders offering their assistance? Something that will work anywhere you happen to land? I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give me a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was way too fat....but he did give my friend a ride). I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank out a pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking. I am interested in what works and what has been done. Thanks. >> Larry, Sorry I didn't give you a ride at Brodhead, but I'm still getting used to the flight characteristics of the heavier weights. The heaviest weight passenger I've had so far, was 185 lbs, with full fuel. My ship weighs 630 lbs, and I weigh 200 to 210 lbs. The climb rate is what suffers dramatically, and while landing, I've learned to leave just a little bit of power in, through the round out and flair. I much prefer having an experienced propper (is propper a word ?) handle the business end, while I'm strapped in, with brakes set. However, I launch my plane solo, much more often than I have a helper, and I've probably done it maybe 80 or 100 times. Ya gotta really have a lot of respect for that prop, and sometimes I even talk to it : "OK, your're not going to hurt me today, are you ?" Props give me the Hiebie Jiebie's. As for my solo launching technique, here is how I do it. I always launch from the grass, when solo. I carry chalks in the glove box, in the front pit. After a thorough pre-flight inspection, chalk both wheels, pull the stick back in the seat belt, fuel on, engine idle, mags OFF. While still standing on the left side, still leaning into the cockpit, I say out loud "Fuel on, engine idle, stick back, mags off, and it's in the chalks". I then walk around and pull six blades through, assuming each blade will start the engine. Whenever you pull a prop through, you MUST assume the engine will START. I then walk back around and turn the mags ON, and repeat out loud, as I touch each item with my finger "Fuel on, engine idle, stick back, mags HOT, and it's in the chalks". Then I walk back around, and the blade is up on compression, in about the 11 O'clock position. Left hand pinky finger is half way out the blade, and just barley let my fingertips go up over the trailing edge of the prop, maybe just to my finger prints...NOT to the first joint. Feet back, look around to my right side to be sure the area is clear, swing right leg forward, and as I swing my right leg back, pull the blade through. The weight of my leg pulls my body out of the biting range of the prop, as well as allows the first step back away from the prop. Once the engine starts, usually the first of second blade, I briskly walk back around the left wing tip, and crouch down to the cockpit, and allow my right arm pit to rest on the top of the left longeron. The first thing I do at the cockpit, it to just barley crack the throttle open, then watch the oil pressure gauge. It seems like forever to get the engine's blood pumping. Power up to 800 or 1000 for a short period, then go back around the tail to remove the right chalk, staying behind the front lift strut, then come back around the tail and remove the left chalk, watching for the plane to creep...this is why I launch from the grass...it WILL creep on the hard surface, but not the grass. Stow the chalks, climb in, strap 'er on, and hold the brakes for another brief power up. A couple of things that happened to me: Two years ago, I forgot to pull the stick back in the seat belt, and the engine started, and as I was running around the left wing tip, the tail was coming up, and I just barley caught it in time, before the prop tips touched. Two other times, as I was climbing in, my left knee touched the power lever, and YEE HAAW...we're off to the races, and I'm not even in the seat yet !!! Luckily, these occasions turned out to be lessons, and not incidents. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:37 AM PST US From: TomTravis@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques??? Guys, When you decide to hand prop your plane and tie the tail down, just be sure it isn't to a fuel truck that might drive away in the middle of the night. This is what happens when you do. Whitehorse, Y.T. Tom Travis ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:53 AM PST US From: TomTravis@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques??? More. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:50 AM PST US d="scan'217,208"; a="218815642:sNHT16202642" From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: Pietenpol-List: At least Tom, At least the prop is still good. chris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:43 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts? Mike, Based on everyones feedback I'll probably be going the plans route for the sprung gear. Out of curiosity, why "no" on the gear. My guess is too wide? Too much work to convert? Weight? The missive by the way is more about the kids and the hospital that I was originally doing this project for rather than any cheerleading on my own part. I know I'll finish, I have to...it's my ride outta here. :-) Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Luther To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts? Stacy, Used (narrow )inspected Piper Cub struts: Yes Used Piper Cub gear: No A65 Continental: Certifiable, Yes, Jack-leg, No Missive: Attitude, YES YES Enthusiasm YES YES YES Schedule: 20+ hours/week nonstop for two years with no "Grand Piano" quality. We know that you can do it!!!! Mike Luther ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:00 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts? Mike, Unfortunately mine's a standard Piet fuselage vs. GN-1. From the feedback I've received it looks like the Piper gear in my case would be an uphill battle, though I admittedly don't yet know why. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike King To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts? Stacy and Chris, My Grega has Cub gear as well as other Cub parts. I am a believer in Cub gear...Lord knows it has been given a workout (bounces) Good luck. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Navratil Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:00 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts? Stacy and Chris I belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that it could use many of the J-3 parts and make the building process easier. In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Clark To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts? Dick, Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska. My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states. When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now (taking it from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrens hospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their radiothons and a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me where I lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying to get their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society being what it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they would no longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance (read: public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats, and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight for any charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated" with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won't get into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your opinion on using Cub struts and landing gear? Stacy :-) There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Ed Grentzer ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ed Grentzer Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Piet in pregress http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EGrentzer@ptec.pinellas.k12.fl.us.08.21.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Matt Naiva ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Matt Naiva Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: A new Piet Engine http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steamlaunch@softhome.net.08.21.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:35 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites Outstanding site for Piet construction pics.... http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:54 PM PST US From: TomTravis@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: At least Chris, You have to wonder what the hell the guy was thinking. I've tied down on that ramp several times and tie downs are scarce ....but a fuel truck??? You're right, the prop looks good and he won't have to worry about that long flight he was going to have to make back to California. Wonder if they let him carry his prop on the airline? Tom ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:50 PM PST US From: "Larry Ragan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques??? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" Truck driver probably thought "Why the hell is that Cub backing up so fast!!" Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan@hotmail.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:16 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA newsletters... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jim Markle" Oh yeah.....I uploaded maybe two issues....I have a stack of double sided pages about 1 1/2" high....... there's a load of them....really good stuff.... J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA newsletters... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > Is this more pages than what you have already uploaded to mykitplane, Jimmy? > > Clif > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I'm gonna make some copies of the old BPA > newsletters... > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Carmen" > > > > Maybe get them converted to PDF for a one time fee and then email this > > PDF as a file to whoever wants it. They in turn can have the file > > printed at there leisure with no shipping fee. > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:35 PM PST US From: TomTravis@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques??? In a message dated 8/21/2004 4:07:28 PM Central Standard Time, lragan@hotmail.com writes: > Truck driver probably thought "Why the hell is that Cub backing up so > fast!!" > The problem was that the pilot roped the wings to regular tiedowns and then tied the tail to the fuel truck. He apparently did a fine job of securing the wings. Tom Travis Do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:47 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites Thanks Stacy, Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stacy Clark Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites Outstanding site for Piet construction pics.... http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:28 PM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Solo propping techniques??? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Chuck, I know you realize I was "giving you the business" about your reluctance to give me and my fat friend rides, when you instead gave our skinny friend a ride whilst we looked on. Speaking of propping, I had the pleasure of propping your airplane for you, just the way I was taught to prop Champs... which was to pick up and swing my LEFT leg to the rear, flinging the prop down and my fat self rearward all at the same time. Was I taught wrong or are there several ways of doing this? I have been doing it this way for a long time but hopefully can unlearn that method. I used it on engines up to my Comanche 180 when my starter crapped out in Montana. Thanks for you very good suggestions. Now...I need to go do my exercises. --- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/20/04 8:18:21 AM Central > Daylight Time, > lnelson208@yahoo.com writes: > > << Has anyone devised a safe way to start up a > Pietenpol > without any innocent bystanders offering their > assistance? Something that will work anywhere you > happen to land? > > I am new to these machines and Chuck wouldn't give > me > a ride in his at Brodhead (he indicated that I was > way > too fat....but he did give my friend a ride). > > I am wondering about the equivilent of a "kill > switch", where rotation of the wheels would yank > out a > pin and ground the mag....hey, I am just thinking. > > I am interested in what works and what has been > done. Thanks. >> > > Larry, > Sorry I didn't give you a ride at Brodhead, but > I'm still getting used to > the flight characteristics of the heavier weights. > The heaviest weight > passenger I've had so far, was 185 lbs, with full > fuel. My ship weighs 630 lbs, > and I weigh 200 to 210 lbs. The climb rate is what > suffers dramatically, and > while landing, I've learned to leave just a little > bit of power in, through the > round out and flair. > I much prefer having an experienced propper (is > propper a word ?) handle > the business end, while I'm strapped in, with brakes > set. However, I launch > my plane solo, much more often than I have a helper, > and I've probably done it > maybe 80 or 100 times. Ya gotta really have a lot > of respect for that prop, > and sometimes I even talk to it : "OK, your're not > going to hurt me today, are > you ?" Props give me the Hiebie Jiebie's. > As for my solo launching technique, here is how > I do it. I always > launch from the grass, when solo. I carry chalks in > the glove box, in the front > pit. After a thorough pre-flight inspection, chalk > both wheels, pull the stick > back in the seat belt, fuel on, engine idle, mags > OFF. While still standing > on the left side, still leaning into the cockpit, I > say out loud "Fuel on, > engine idle, stick back, mags off, and it's in the > chalks". I then walk around > and pull six blades through, assuming each blade > will start the engine. > Whenever you pull a prop through, you MUST assume > the engine will START. I then walk > back around and turn the mags ON, and repeat out > loud, as I touch each item > with my finger "Fuel on, engine idle, stick back, > mags HOT, and it's in the > chalks". Then I walk back around, and the blade is > up on compression, in about > the 11 O'clock position. Left hand pinky finger is > half way out the blade, and > just barley let my fingertips go up over the > trailing edge of the prop, > maybe just to my finger prints...NOT to the first > joint. Feet back, look around > to my right side to be sure the area is clear, swing > right leg forward, and as > I swing my right leg back, pull the blade through. > The weight of my leg pulls > my body out of the biting range of the prop, as well > as allows the first step > back away from the prop. Once the engine starts, > usually the first of second > blade, I briskly walk back around the left wing tip, > and crouch down to the > cockpit, and allow my right arm pit to rest on the > top of the left longeron. > The first thing I do at the cockpit, it to just > barley crack the throttle open, > then watch the oil pressure gauge. It seems like > forever to get the engine's > blood pumping. Power up to 800 or 1000 for a short > period, then go back > around the tail to remove the right chalk, staying > behind the front lift strut, > then come back around the tail and remove the left > chalk, watching for the plane > to creep...this is why I launch from the grass...it > WILL creep on the hard > surface, but not the grass. Stow the chalks, climb > in, strap 'er on, and hold > the brakes for another brief power up. > A couple of things that happened to me: Two > years ago, I forgot to pull > the stick back in the seat belt, and the engine > started, and as I was running > around the left wing tip, the tail was coming up, > and I just barley caught it > in time, before the prop tips touched. Two other > times, as I was climbing in, > my left knee touched the power lever, and YEE > HAAW...we're off to the races, > and I'm not even in the seat yet !!! Luckily, these > occasions turned out to > be lessons, and not incidents. > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping From: Craig Lawler --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Craig Lawler Larry, I like to start the Piet from behind the prop on the right side like the cub seaplane guys. I can hold onto the strut with my left hand and prop with my right. If the plane wants to roll some I can just hold it fine as long as it is on grass. Make sure you are pointed at open space just for good measure. Craig ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:46 PM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mother of all Pietenpol reference sites Peter, Thank you! Certainly makes a lot of things clearer. I recommend to anyone just starting, or about to start their project, that they look at your site often. Stacy Clark Bethel, Alaska (i.e.: The Bush) There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark