---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/26/04: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:26 AM - Re: copyright SNAFU (Clif Dawson) 2. 12:37 AM - Re: rib stitching (Clif Dawson) 3. 05:19 AM - Re: airspeed (del magsam) 4. 05:28 AM - Re: airspeed (Don Morris) 5. 05:41 AM - Re: rib stitching (Ed Smith) 6. 05:55 AM - Re: flying strut fittings (Isablcorky@aol.com) 7. 06:18 AM - Grain of wood (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 8. 06:29 AM - Re: rib stitching (Carl D. Vought) 9. 07:19 AM - Grant redux (LAWRENCE WILLIAMS) 10. 07:24 AM - Re: airspeed (Michael D Cuy) 11. 07:31 AM - Re: Grant redux (Michael D Cuy) 12. 07:46 AM - Re: airspeed (Rcaprd@aol.com) 13. 08:16 AM - Re: copyright SNAFU (John Ford) 14. 08:31 AM - airspeed (Richard Navratil) 15. 08:36 AM - pietenpol airspeed (Les Schubert) 16. 08:36 AM - ahah ! the old grommet trick (Michael D Cuy) 17. 08:40 AM - Re: airspeed (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 18. 09:05 AM - Re: Grant redux (Duane Owens) 19. 11:13 AM - Re: I am a bulletin board jinx! (John Ford) 20. 11:18 AM - Re: Advice for a first flight? (Larry Nelson) 21. 11:33 AM - Re: Advice for a first flight? (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 22. 01:39 PM - Re: airspeed (Don Morris) 23. 01:49 PM - 250 knot Vne (Michael D Cuy) 24. 02:07 PM - Re: airspeed (DJ Vegh) 25. 02:19 PM - Re: airspeed (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 26. 02:23 PM - Re: airspeed (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 27. 02:58 PM - Re: Advice for a first flight? (Richard Navratil) 28. 04:41 PM - Re: BPA Newsletter Copyright (Jake Crause) 29. 05:18 PM - Re: BPA Newsletter Copyright (KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com) 30. 05:56 PM - Re: BPA Newsletter Copyright (walt evans) 31. 05:56 PM - Re: flying strut fittings (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 32. 08:31 PM - plastic conduit for instrument wiring (DJ Vegh) 33. 08:35 PM - Re: pietenpol airspeed (Richard Navratil) 34. 09:39 PM - gascolator location (DJ Vegh) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:45 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: copyright SNAFU I have watched this discussion with great interest, the pros, the cons, the good, the bad, the ugly, and much as I want that material myself I have to agree with Walt. And don't forget, the original plans were published by Modern Mechanics and Inventions. They were not even drawn by Bernard. It doesn't appear to me that he was motivated by money but by the desire to see as many people as possible get out there flying. So there's a certain amount of confusion just as there is in the newsletter case. We all agree that the copying of the plans is morally irreprehensible..... and the newsletter? My last issue of 8 is Oct 03. And now on the lighter side. I decided a few weeks ago that since I could not get at the inside of the fuse when it was on it's right side and since the weather was uncommonly dry and sunny, And since there was no way I could deal with the landing gear inside, that a move was in order. I cleared the way to the door and readied myself. Picking up the fuselage upside down, like a canoe, with me in the rear cockpit I proceeded towards that door unable to see anything 3 feet in front of my shoes. Miraculously finding the door without hitting it I proceeded outwards. Wumph! Stuck! Backwards, uh, uh, forewards, forget it. Slowly lowering the damn thing it settled on the very last 1/2" of an antique log workbench just outside the door. Coming out from under I saw that it had come up against one of the posts holding up the ceiling which would not allow a straight run out the door. Oh! what the %&$#, back under I went, gave a little kung fu jerk and grunt. POP! out I went, into the backyard, staggering back and forth, left and right. Somehow I made it to the sawhorses. I'm not sure which one I felt like, Larry, Moe, or the other guy. I was afraid to look at it, fearing the worst, but not a scratch! The weather began to worsen so I bought conduit and those canopy corner thingies. Now my backyard is filled with a Great White. Call me Ahab, no, I have both legs, maybe Ishmael? Jonah, that's it, Jonah. I've been swallowed. Clif, God help me if the wife ever comes for a visit. ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: copyright SNAFU What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to lynch a guy who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we condemn a guy who wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff. Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or if we'll lose it. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:17 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Experimenter, Nov. 2003, p 44. A piece of plywood, 4" or 5" deep and 1/2" wide has round cable staples on one side near the top. These take the place of holes in fabric. Put one end in a vise and tie away to your hearts content as per the Polyfiber manual. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" > I also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a > mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol > news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does > anyone recall seeing such an article. > > Thanks for any help > > Carol and Ralph > Raymond > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:31 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed It might be easy enough to run another temp tubing and pitot out on the strut, to see if that makes a difference, I have an ASI that you could mount in a temp location to try also. Del Richard Navratil wrote:Hey all, I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight. My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage and will also try changing it out. Dick N. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:37 AM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed Hi. One simple way to adjust an airspeed reading is to place a washer over the pitot tube so that it can be adjusted backwards or forwards. The closer the washer is to the inlet of the tube, the higher your readings will be. Backing the washer off lets your readings down. Of course, the other thing you should check is the location of your static port... -Don Richard Navratil wrote: > Hey all, > I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are > way low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the > leading edge of the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of > the tube but so far no improvement. I know the guage works because > readings go up in decent. I have alinged the tube and bent it to be > level at normal flight. > My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the > cause? The tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and > now also installed a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is > resolved. I have a spare guage and will also try changing it out. > Dick N. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:03 AM PST US From: Ed Smith Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ed Smith http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument Follow the above link and look at chapter 2. It's the book the Feds would like for you to follow. It's free online, or as free as our tax dollars can make it. At 11:12 PM 8/25/2004, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" > >I am looking for information on rib stitching. Some time back (several >years) I was shown rib stitching that as I recall, pulled the knots under >the fabric as you progressed to the next stitch. I can't find any >information on it now that I need it. Can some one help me out on this? I >also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a >mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol >news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does >anyone recall seeing such an article. > >Thanks for any help > >Carol and Ralph >Raymond > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:15 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying strut fittings Dennis, If I understand your question,you are first looking for a plan of the strut fitting. It is located on the supplemental fuse plan for the extended (long ) fuse drawing. The location on the spar can be established with the 1/4 inch hole in the spar center then rotate the fitting into an angular position with enough tab below the spar and none protruding above and just line it up with the lift strut in prolongation. Clear as mud? Maybe it will help. That's the way I did mine. Not everything like that is laid out in the plans especially the supplements. Corky ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:17 AM PST US ETAtAhQUJj1k6TtNcLnizWYSBKc9a0nxZwIVALbMSY25HRMrZ16bDaRsR7Z6HG1s From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grain of wood --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Jim: We have a wood guru near by. I once asked him the same question. He told me that it makes no difference which way you run the grain. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:36 AM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" Ralph, have you checked out the Poly Fiber/Stitts handbook and video/DVD? They're pretty thorough. Rib stitching can be a drag if you're working by yourself. I developed a method that reduces the running around and the effort. If you're interested, let me know and I'll supply the details....Carl Vought On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:12:50 -0500, "Ralph" wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" > > I am looking for information on rib stitching. Some time back (several > years) I was shown rib stitching that as I recall, pulled the knots under > the fabric as you progressed to the next stitch. I can't find any > information on it now that I need it. Can some one help me out on this? I > also saw an illustrated article a few months ago ( I think) that showed a > mock set up to practice rib stitching. I only subscribe to the Pietenpol > news letter and EAA Sport Pilot but seem unable to find the article. Does > anyone recall seeing such an article. > > Thanks for any help > > Carol and Ralph > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:56 AM PST US From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grant redux Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:20:11 -0400 Niggling about not getting change back from a $10 bill for newsletters not mailed , to me at least, was a small (and never missed) price to pay for years of BPANewsletters from Grant. I have yet to see the quality in any other newsletter and the volume of little hints and kinks were more useful than this list has put out in the several years I've been listening. Grant never had a skimpy newsletter because of a lack of participation from us, he worked at filling it with good info on his own. He was always willing to answer questions and recommend places to go for answers. Remember, he was a self-avowed non-aviation person!! I have bemoaned his relinquishing the reins ever since he quit and always remind him of the great asset he was to the entire Piet community whenever I see him. I doubt if we will ever see the quality that he brought to the subscribers again. My unfulfilled subscription was a small price to pay for the outstanding legacy he left. Larry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:14 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed Dick-- I have my airspeed tube (a 1/4" od steel tube) out there on the wing LE too about 3 ribs in from the end. I plugged the static port with a threaded plug and then drilled a No. 60 hole in it. Do you have a cover over your instruments or does the back of your airspeed get all the wind from the front cockpit ? Wonder if you just disconnected the tubing and blew thru it ? The instrument might be out of calibration too.......even tho it moves. Is it used, new ? I indicate ( verified closely by gps during a calm eve) 29 power off stall, 72 cruise with a 65 hp and a wood 72"x42 pitch prop. My VNE is 250 kts. Mike C. kidding ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:09 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant redux Amen Larry Williams. And on the plans---- direct from Donald Pietenpol: the family DOES carry a copyright on the plans and they are aware of the pirates out there making copies but like with the newsletters, it would be a hassle and most likely too costly to prosecute. And Larry---- you actually have a flying Pietenpol.........which I regard very highly, in addition with any of you who are building, not just talking. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:05 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 8/25/04 10:30:17 PM Central Daylight Time, horzpool@goldengate.net writes: << Hey all, I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight. My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? >> Richard, My first hunch is that your static port is in a positive pressure area - once you are airborne. As you decend, the positive pressure area becomes neutral. Where is your static port ? Is your altimeter and airspeed static port plumbed together ? Is your altimeter reading accurately, or does it read lower than you actually are - once you are airborne at several thousand feet ? Does the altimeter needle bounce, or move rapidly ? Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:10 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: copyright SNAFU --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" I think the issue is whether or not it's really *his* stuff. There is also the issue of the plans being a specific design traceable to a single entity via O.H., whereas the newsletter is more of a compilation of submitted wisdom with some pertinent editorial work. I thought this was an interesting cognitive-dissonance situation as well (it is), but can see the substantive differences with actual ownership of the intellectual material. Copyright lies with the creator of the work (as long as he's not being paid to create for an entity such as a newspaper), even if that is in the form of a letter to the editor of a newsletter (where the newsletter is basically given the permission to copy and distribute). Copyright issues are considerably more complex than that, but hopefully you get the gist of it and can see where there may be ownership issues with the newsletter content. I don't see why he simply doesn't grant permission to copy it, since he wasn't making any money off of it and a goodly portion of the content wasn't his, unless he's worried about the liability of having his name on something that someone someday gets hurt or killed in. Or maybe even if somebody wants to copy his stuff, then it could be arranged to send him a buck or two.... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> wbeevans@verizon.net Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:57:23 PM >>> What I don't understand , is that not a week after everyone wanted to lynch a guy who was selling/stealing Piet plans on the net,,,,,do we condemn a guy who wants no one to take his copyrighted stuff. Guess what makes it either right or wrong depends on if we want it or if we'll lose it. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:39 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: airspeed Thanks to Mike Del and Chuck My static port is directly on the ASI, there is a headrest in front of it to block wind. The altimiter is fine doesnt bounce around and seems accurate. I drilled a hole in the plug as Mike described, I will try enlarging it a bit. I will order a spare pitot tube and install a temp secondary guage as Del suggested. I have a spare guage. The reason I brought this point up is, I chatted with P.F. Beck offline on this point. He has pitot in the same location and had the same problem, which cleared up with a new pitot tube. Del, I was out flying last night and if conditions permit will go again on Sat. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:27 AM PST US From: Les Schubert Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert Richard Just a guess but do you have a pitot tube that has the static line attached to it as well. A high static reading will give you a low airspeed reading. I don't have any experience with your problem but I know how it works and this seems like a logical explanation. Les ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:58 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: ahah ! the old grommet trick <000c01c48b1c$ce504a10$0600a8c0@laptop> Don-- you are right on about the washer thing over the airspeed probe. We cured a lousy airspeed reading in an old Champ by slipping a small rubber grommet over the pitot tube and (tough work but somebody had to do it) then we flew, adjusted, flew, adjusted, flew, flew, flew. Mike C. At 07:28 AM 8/26/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Hi. > >One simple way to adjust an airspeed reading is to place a washer over the >pitot tube so that it can be adjusted backwards or forwards. The closer >the washer is to the inlet of the tube, the higher your readings will >be. Backing the washer off lets your readings down. Of course, the other >thing you should check is the location of your static port... > >-Don > >Richard Navratil wrote: >>Hey all, >>I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way >>low. The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading >>edge of the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but >>so far no improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in >>decent. I have alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight. >>My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the >>cause? The tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now >>also installed a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I >>have a spare guage and will also try changing it out. >>Dick N. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:46 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com The static air reference pressure behind the instrument panel is rarely the same as (not relevant to) the ambient air pressure. For the gauge to indicate properly, the static port should be in a location that is representative of the ambient air. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:56 AM PST US From: "Duane Owens" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant redux ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grant redux Amen Larry Williams. And on the plans---- direct from Donald Pietenpol: the family DOES carry a copyright on the plans and they are aware of the pirates out there making copies but like with the newsletters, it would be a hassle and most likely too costly to prosecute. And Larry---- you actually have a flying Pietenpol.........which I regard very highly, in addition with any of you who are building, not just talking. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:27 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I am a bulletin board jinx! Corky, You gave it up too soon! I gigged with an octogenarian Saturday night, and know a sax player who retired from playing professionally this spring at 96. He can still play a heck of a mean sax! John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> Isablcorky@aol.com Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:46:26 PM >>> Your criteria for membership brought back some fond memories which I would like to share, with your patience; Back in '86 I decided to form a German Band. I called all the former high school German Band members who were still living and mustered 4 who still could play and still had teeth. It had been 1939 since we tooted together. We needed some additional members so we established our criteria for membership: 1 Must be over 60 2 Can't be a smoker 3 Must have grey hair. ( Gives you a look of wisdom) 4 Must have had hemorodes ( Gives one a look of concern ) 5 Must own his own instrument. We organized and played for 15 years until our ranks diminished to the point no new ones could qualify Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:30 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Advice for a first flight? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Not the first flight of the airplane itself, MY first flight in a Pietenpol....... When I get the Howard Henderson/Joe Santana airplane back here in Missouri, I will put her back together and find someone to prop her and feel my way around the runway by taxiing, then ultimately I will throw caution to the winds and commit to a takeoff. I have no (nearby) opportunity to take any Cub time, and I have been told that the Piet is more "Cub like" than "Champ like" (which is the airplane I learned to fly in in 1964. BTW, I fly a lot, but my current plane is a Bonanza, which a small child could land blindfolded and half asleep. Any suggestions? Even snide remarks are welcome. ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:30 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Advice for a first flight? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Whatever you do... lower the nose. -- Terry L. Bowden has 0.5 hrs stick time in a corvair Piet 10 yrs ago ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:58 PM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed Mike - I'm probably not the first to question it, but Vne = 250 kts? You must have the 3 piece wing, and have forgotten to install the outboard sections. (grin) -Don Michael D Cuy wrote: > Dick-- I have my airspeed tube (a 1/4" od steel tube) out there on > the wing LE too about 3 ribs in from the end. I plugged the static > port with a threaded > plug and then drilled a No. 60 hole in it. Do you have a cover over > your instruments or does the back of your airspeed get all the wind > from the > front cockpit ? Wonder if you just disconnected the tubing and blew > thru it ? The instrument might be out of calibration too.......even > tho it moves. Is it used, new ? > > I indicate ( verified closely by gps during a calm eve) 29 power off > stall, 72 cruise with a 65 hp and a wood 72"x42 pitch prop. My VNE > is 250 kts. > > Mike C. > > kidding > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:24 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: 250 knot Vne <5.1.1.5.2.20040826101900.01d78518@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Don-- Yes, the 3 piece wing is rated for a 250 knot Vne and the one piece even faster:)) Gosh, you know that even when playing around with dives and such, when the airspeed reaches anywhere near 95 or so I really get nervous. Maybe it is the wing noise that gets to me around all the draggy stuff, but you'd think you were going 150 or something. Mike do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:36 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" is this why the pitot/static tube I bought from Aircraft spruce has 2 1/4" tubes brazed together in the shape of an "L". One benig open for pitot and one sealed shut with a small hole for static?? This way they are in the same air huh? DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > The static air reference pressure behind the instrument panel is rarely the same as (not relevant to) the ambient air pressure. For the gauge to indicate properly, the static port should be in a location that is representative of the ambient air. > -- > Terry L. Bowden ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:39 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com DJ, Can you send a picture? What you describe sounds pretty standard. Take a look at a Champ sometime and look at the factory pitot/static system. The intent is for the static port to be a reference sample of the "still" air environment (ambient) that the airplane is flying in. The gauge indicates airspeed as a function of the difference between the "ram" air pressure and the "ambient" air pressure. The gauge markings are in MPH or knots...but could also be marked in inches of mercury (pressure). -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:59 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com I should add that depending on the location of your static port, the reference static pressure may be influenced by air pressure fluctuations due to turbulence etc.. Or in the case of the backside of the panel, the pressure could actually be lower or higher than the ambient air due to the propwash and airflow inside and around the fuselage. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:56 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Advice for a first flight? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" Let me be the first to say, dont do it. When I got mine signed off in April, I wanted to get it out right away and asked the same questions. I had been flying a twin for the last 7 years with a modest 1200 time. The group here advised me to get someone to test fly off the first 10+ hours which probably was the best advice. I had to transport the plane to another airport for the test area and re-assemble. I took my time and got adequate instruction in a Champ with a C-90. I flew from the rear seat, instruments being in the front. I could only see the tops on the ASI and Tach. I did over 100 takeoffs and landings and my instructor gave lots of help with things to expect. The Champ is heavier and has a larger engine but the handling is similar. There is a lot to know for a taildragger. Before I even attempt a wheel landing I'm going back for a refresher. Be safe. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Advice for a first flight? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > Not the first flight of the airplane itself, MY first > flight in a Pietenpol....... > > When I get the Howard Henderson/Joe Santana airplane > back here in Missouri, I will put her back together > and find someone to prop her and feel my way around > the runway by taxiing, then ultimately I will throw > caution to the winds and commit to a takeoff. > > I have no (nearby) opportunity to take any Cub time, > and I have been told that the Piet is more "Cub like" > than "Champ like" (which is the airplane I learned to > fly in in 1964. > > BTW, I fly a lot, but my current plane is a Bonanza, > which a small child could land blindfolded and half > asleep. > > Any suggestions? Even snide remarks are welcome. > > ===== > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > _______________________________ > Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:42 PM PST US From: "Jake Crause" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter Copyright Hey folks, I'm very new to the Pietenpol and very excited about getting started. I just wanted to say that some folks may be under the impression that you can still buy back-issues from Grant. I was under that impression as well because of what is listed on his website. However, a few weeks ago Grant let me know even the back issues are no longer available. This was a very big blow to me because I'm one of those people that like to read everything I can on something before I get started. Just knowing that there is a full set of great newsletters out there but, because I got in the game late, they are not available to me really burns me up. I for one really do not care whether Grant holds the legal rights to the newsletter or not - I would gladly pay him or someone he has sold the "rights" to if I could just get my hands on that info! However, out of respect for what Grant has done, I won't buy or accept "unauthorized copies. Grant, if your listening, would you consider making back issues available again or transfer that right to someone else so that folks like me who need the info can get it? It would be a shame to let all of your hard work go to waste. Thanks. Jake Crause I ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:51 PM PST US From: KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter Copyright I might be interested in buying the rights to the newsletter if Grant would contact me. I too was smitten by the Pietenpol bug last year. When I discovered the news letter and back copies were no longer available, I was a bit discouraged. Because of my inability to access information (partly) and my own stupidity and haste, I made a bad purchase on a "new" dog of a Pietenpol that had been through the FSDO process but never flown. Maybe if I had a pile of newsletters to read, I would have done things differently and made a more enlightened decision. Grant is not to blame for anything! Typically when someone submits info to a newsletter, or a magazine or a newspaper or CBS NEWS, the stuff that goes into the newsletter (or on TV) becomes the property of the publisher, regardless of the fact if the person who submitted the info was compensated or not. Even if you submit a photo, you typically surrender all rights to the publication that prints it in their magazine, newsletter, brochure, etc, unless you have signed a contract to suggest otherwise. (Been there, done that for 30 years...) I say lets cut Grant some slack and back off. I'd also say, there are a lot of people out there in Air Camper Land that could greatly benefit from the info. Grant probably worked his butt off on putting the newsletter out each month. And for a measly $2.50 a copy, he wasn't getting rich. I suspect this Grant just loved Bernard's airplane and wanted to help folks. Maybe Grant is burned out, maybe he won the Wisconsin lotto and is living on an island somewhere drinking ice cold Coronas, but what ever ... the guy deserves some slack... After all, he developed a website and paid out of his own pocket to have it up and running and many of us have used his website, never paying him a dime. Grant ... if you are out there in binary land, please contact me off line and tell me what you need in compensation for the rights. Maybe I can keep people off your ass and in their hangers where they belong (or garages, dens, living rooms ... where ever ... building Air Campers). This way, maybe everybody would be happy? If I started a newsletter, I only wish I could live up to everybody's expectations. I suspect not everyone would be happy because there a few soreheads lurking in Air Camper World. But if folks had access to the info and if an Air Camper newsletter could continue, at least some builders might benefit. Lastly, if I put out a newsletter, it would contain useful info and people would have to put up with my warped sense of humor! Lets face it, an Air Camper ain't a serious airplane but it's probably one of the most fun things that ever lifted off the face of the earth. And I think a newsletter should not be designed for anal-retentive people only. It can contain technical info while keeping a smile on the face and a wrench in the hand. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to challenge anyone to step up to the plate and take over where Grant left off. But if I do a news letter, anal-retentives need not subscribe! Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional www.byop.com www.sterlingbrooks.tv www.tacoloco.us (coming soon) www.dumpeddogs.us ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:32 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter Copyright Grants email seems to be... GMacLaren@aol.com walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: KTS5TA6@wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BPA Newsletter Copyright I might be interested in buying the rights to the newsletter if Grant would contact me. I too was smitten by the Pietenpol bug last year. When I discovered the news letter and back copies were no longer available, I was a bit discouraged. Because of my inability to access information (partly) and my own stupidity and haste, I made a bad purchase on a "new" dog of a Pietenpol that had been through the FSDO process but never flown. Maybe if I had a pile of newsletters to read, I would have done things differently and made a more enlightened decision. Grant is not to blame for anything! Typically when someone submits info to a newsletter, or a magazine or a newspaper or CBS NEWS, the stuff that goes into the newsletter (or on TV) becomes the property of the publisher, regardless of the fact if the person who submitted the info was compensated or not. Even if you submit a photo, you typically surrender all rights to the publication that prints it in their magazine, newsletter, brochure, etc, unless you have signed a contract to suggest otherwise. (Been there, done that for 30 years...) I say lets cut Grant some slack and back off. I'd also say, there are a lot of people out there in Air Camper Land that could greatly benefit from the info. Grant probably worked his butt off on putting the newsletter out each month. And for a measly $2.50 a copy, he wasn't getting rich. I suspect this Grant just loved Bernard's airplane and wanted to help folks. Maybe Grant is burned out, maybe he won the Wisconsin lotto and is living on an island somewhere drinking ice cold Coronas, but what ever ... the guy deserves some slack... After all, he developed a website and paid out of his own pocket to have it up and running and many of us have used his website, never paying him a dime. Grant ... if you are out there in binary land, please contact me off line and tell me what you need in compensation for the rights. Maybe I can keep people off your ass and in their hangers where they belong (or garages, dens, living rooms ... where ever ... building Air Campers). This way, maybe everybody would be happy? If I started a newsletter, I only wish I could live up to everybody's expectations. I suspect not everyone would be happy because there a few soreheads lurking in Air Camper World. But if folks had access to the info and if an Air Camper newsletter could continue, at least some builders might benefit. Lastly, if I put out a newsletter, it would contain useful info and people would have to put up with my warped sense of humor! Lets face it, an Air Camper ain't a serious airplane but it's probably one of the most fun things that ever lifted off the face of the earth. And I think a newsletter should not be designed for anal-retentive people only. It can contain technical info while keeping a smile on the face and a wrench in the hand. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to challenge anyone to step up to the plate and take over where Grant left off. But if I do a news letter, anal-retentives need not subscribe! Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional www.byop.com www.sterlingbrooks.tv www.tacoloco.us (coming soon) www.dumpeddogs.us ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:50 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying strut fittings Thanks Corky: I am not much of a communicator. I have the plans, just want to know where they go on the spar. I will try what you suggested. Want to make the attach point about 1/4" longer though. Dennis E ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying strut fittings Dennis, If I understand your question,you are first looking for a plan of the strut fitting. It is located on the supplemental fuse plan for the extended (long ) fuse drawing. The location on the spar can be established with the 1/4 inch hole in the spar center then rotate the fitting into an angular position with enough tab below the spar and none protruding above and just line it up with the lift strut in prolongation. Clear as mud? Maybe it will help. That's the way I did mine. Not everything like that is laid out in the plans especially the supplements. Corky ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:23 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: plastic conduit for instrument wiring --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" here's where I ended up getting the clear plastic tubing for my engine instrument wiring. http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=142& About $10 and that included shipping. I got the 3/4" square tubing. It's gonna do the job nicely. DJ V. N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper - ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:37 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol airspeed --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" No, I just drilled a small hole in the plug on the static side as some others have done. I will try a few changes this weekend and report back. Again, thanks all, for the input, you all know how much it helps sometimes to get this feedback in totally looking at a problem. I'll try multiple flights on Saturday to work out the bugs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Schubert" Subject: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol airspeed > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Les Schubert > > Richard > Just a guess but do you have a pitot tube that has the static line attached > to it as well. A high static reading will give you a low airspeed reading. > I don't have any experience with your problem but I know how it works and > this seems like a logical explanation. > Les > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:52 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator location --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" it's pretty tight down by the bottom end of my firewall. I'm trying to get the gascolator as low as possible...... I know that typically you are supposed to put it as low as possible without it protruding from beneath the firewall. The optimum location for mine puts the bottom edge of the gascolator about 1" below the firewall. How strict is the rule of keeping it above the bottom firewall line? I could move it higher but not by much. I knwo the reasoning is that if the landing gear ripped out it could also rip off the gascolator... BUT If the landing gear was to be ripped off it would most likely happen in a loss of power forced landing in which case the fuel tank shut off valve would be put into the closed position before the attempted landing anyway. Some opinions here please.... keep it a tad low or make a miracle happen and find a way to raise it???? DJ V. N74DV Mesa, AZ www.imagedv.com/aircamper