Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - Re: what, think ? (Clif Dawson)
2. 08:29 AM - Re: Grain of wood (Stacy Clark)
3. 08:54 AM - quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! (Gary W Meadows)
4. 01:28 PM - flop (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
5. 02:10 PM - Re: flop (DJ Vegh)
6. 03:37 PM - Re: airspeed (hjarrett)
7. 08:12 PM - Re: airspeed (Richard Navratil)
8. 08:15 PM - Re: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! (Richard Navratil)
9. 11:02 PM - Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... (Stacy Clark)
10. 11:05 PM - Re: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! (DJ Vegh)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: what, think ? |
Ha! Ha! Good one!
Our forefathers did a lot of thinking for themselves. Some of the
stuff they came up with puts our wildest thoughts to shame.
Lee Valley tools has reprints of the yearbooks from the original
Popular Mechanics, Known as "Shopnotes" ,1905 to 1930. Some
of the stuff in these is astounding ( airplane stuff too ).
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page42563&category1,46096,46130&abspage1&ccurrency1&SID
or http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page46096&category1&SID&ccurrency1
under "mechanics and metalwork"
Don't archive this one either, It'll be Mike's little secret :-)
Do not archive
Subject: Pietenpol-List: what, think ?
Gary-- what a great idea you have ! How did any Air Campers ever get built
and flown when people used to
have to use handwritten letters, stamps, and a long distance phone call ?
Amazing.
I'm going to build another Pietenpol someday but I'm waiting for the Fast-build,
Quick Fly, Builder Assistance Program
when the Pietenpol Family gets that all setup with their 51% rule kit Pietenpol
coming out next year.
Mike C.
pleeeeeeassssse do not archive
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Grain of wood |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
I talked to a local shop teacher just the other day about the same thing.
He said it didn't make a difference which way the grain (end grain) went.
What did make a difference he said was if the grain ended abruptly through
the length of the piece. In other words, you should be able to follow a
grain all the way through the length of a piece from one end to the other.
If you have "aircraft grade" wood this should not be a problem. In my case
all was OK.
That being said, I laid my longerons with the end grain horizontal to the
ground. In my thinking this allows the wood to flex in the "up/down"
direction when the tail hits the ground verses laying them cross grain which
in my opinion would disipate the energy to one constant and specific point
somewhere along the longeron. A microscopic issue to be sure, considering
the side trusses disipate the energy by design, but I think a valid point
nonetheless.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 3
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Subject: | quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
Wayne,
There was a fellow a few years back who made parts for sale for the Piet and a
few others. In pictures, they looked like very nice parts, but I never saw any
in person. I guess he's gone now, his name was Steve something and the outfit
was called Replicraft. I often considered buying some of his steel parts, but
ended up cutting my own. He even sold fuselages and rib sets and quite a bit
of other stuff. I don't know if there's a market or not.
I did buy a very nice set of hubs from Ken Perkins and will get them laced into
wheels when I get the rims together. For me, it's basically doing whatever is
fun and interesting. I didn't want to mess with the hubs cause I ain't that
great a welder and I'm not a machinist at all, so I jumped at the chance to buy
a set of hubs. I may not make my engine mount either - we'll see. I know Mike
Cuy farmed out a few projects on his own plane. But then, so did Orville and
WIlbur, it ain't no thaing. Just have fun! If you haven't started yet, get some
sticks and start building ribs - after 28-30 ribs, anything will seem like
fun!
Good luck with your project!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
Message 4
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are there plans anywhere for a flop or does everyone just make it the same size
as the ailerons?
Dennis E
Message 5
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on my GN-1 I made mine go from the rear spar back
see here:
http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-26-04.htm
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop
are there plans anywhere for a flop or does everyone just make it the same size
as the ailerons?
Dennis E
Message 6
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One thing I haven't heard anybody address is that the air coming into the leading
edge of a wing DOES NOT approach from straight ahead. There is a strong upwash
ahead of the wing and strong downwash behind it. As the angle of attack
increases the stagnation point on the leading edge (the point where the air is
hitting the airfoil straight on and splits with some going over and the rest
going under) moves down. That is one very good reason you don't see so many planes
with the air speed probe mounted on the front of the wing. You have to
get the end of the tube well out in front of the leading edge to get straight
in flow. If the flow is hitting the end of the probe at an angle you get a lower
air speed indication. If you look at production test aircraft you will see
really long booms sticking out in front with a gadget on the front that weathervanes
into the air flow. This keeps the air going straight into the pitot
tube so they can adjust the production pitot to have minimum error. With a boom
it is pretty easy to optimize the pitot tube but the static port is still pretty
much black magic. You have to get the pressure at the port to be the same
as the free stream pressure in all attitudes. For us, that is a real pain.
Using an open static port in the back of the instrument is probably a really
BAD way to do it but if it's consistent it works. You may be stalling at 10
MPH different than what's indicated, but who cares if it always stalls at the
same indicated speed? In this case you optimize for cruise accuracy and let the
stall be off (but consistent). One BIG problem is with a passenger in front
you should expect the airspeed to be different and each new shape passenger
will change the ASI. In my Taylorcraft I can fly faster with the passenger window
open and slower with the pilots window open. With both open I can't read
the ASI so I'm not sure what is happening. ;-)
Hank (At least the ASI says I'm faster and slower) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: airspeed
Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low.
The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of
the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no improvement.
I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have alinged
the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The
tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed
a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage
and will also try changing it out.
Dick N.
Message 7
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My tube extends at least 6" out from LE. I made some modfications this morning
but was grounded in the morning by rain and heavy traffic from a head bangin rock
concert in the area this aftrenoon.
Will try again on Mon.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: hjarrett
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airspeed
One thing I haven't heard anybody address is that the air coming into the leading
edge of a wing DOES NOT approach from straight ahead. There is a strong
upwash ahead of the wing and strong downwash behind it. As the angle of attack
increases the stagnation point on the leading edge (the point where the air
is hitting the airfoil straight on and splits with some going over and the rest
going under) moves down. That is one very good reason you don't see so many
planes with the air speed probe mounted on the front of the wing. You have to
get the end of the tube well out in front of the leading edge to get straight
in flow. If the flow is hitting the end of the probe at an angle you get a
lower air speed indication. If you look at production test aircraft you will
see really long booms sticking out in front with a gadget on the front that weathervanes
into the air flow. This keeps the air going straight into the pitot
tube so they can adjust the production pitot to have minimum error. With a
boom it is pretty easy to optimize the pitot tube but the static port is still
pretty much black magic. You have to get the pressure at the port to be the
same as the free stream pressure in all attitudes. For us, that is a real pain.
Using an open static port in the back of the instrument is probably a really
BAD way to do it but if it's consistent it works. You may be stalling at 10
MPH different than what's indicated, but who cares if it always stalls at the
same indicated speed? In this case you optimize for cruise accuracy and let
the stall be off (but consistent). One BIG problem is with a passenger in front
you should expect the airspeed to be different and each new shape passenger
will change the ASI. In my Taylorcraft I can fly faster with the passenger
window open and slower with the pilots window open. With both open I can't read
the ASI so I'm not sure what is happening. ;-)
Hank (At least the ASI says I'm faster and slower) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: airspeed
Hey all,
I have been having a problem with airspeed readings, the readings are way low.
The main question is that I located my pitot tube thru the leading edge of
the wing. I have been trying to adjust the angle of the tube but so far no
improvement. I know the guage works because readings go up in decent. I have
alinged the tube and bent it to be level at normal flight.
My question is, could it be that that location of the tube is the cause? The
tube extends out about 6" from the LE. I have a GPS and now also installed
a secondary ASI from a ultralite till this is resolved. I have a spare guage
and will also try changing it out.
Dick N.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
Please, lets not get started on Replicraft again. We just did 4-5 days on copyrights.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary W Meadows
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 !
Wayne,
There was a fellow a few years back who made parts for sale for the Piet and
a few others. In pictures, they looked like very nice parts, but I never saw
any in person. I guess he's gone now, his name was Steve something and the outfit
was called Replicraft. I often considered buying some of his steel parts,
but ended up cutting my own. He even sold fuselages and rib sets and quite a bit
of other stuff. I don't know if there's a market or not.
I did buy a very nice set of hubs from Ken Perkins and will get them laced into
wheels when I get the rims together. For me, it's basically doing whatever
is fun and interesting. I didn't want to mess with the hubs cause I ain't that
great a welder and I'm not a machinist at all, so I jumped at the chance to
buy a set of hubs. I may not make my engine mount either - we'll see. I know Mike
Cuy farmed out a few projects on his own plane. But then, so did Orville and
WIlbur, it ain't no thaing. Just have fun! If you haven't started yet, get
some sticks and start building ribs - after 28-30 ribs, anything will seem like
fun!
Good luck with your project!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
Message 9
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Subject: | Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... |
All,
I am laying out the horizontal stabilizer at the present moment. I am finding
that the AS&S kit I received (Modernized Pietenpol) has various errors in wood
lengths and widths of the supplied wood. Long story short, the 1/2" x 3/4" diagonal
braces supplied were only 4' long. As such, the diagonals do not (cannot)
butt up against each other. Am I stuck and have to get longer lengths or
can I do one of the following (see image)...If so, which is the best choice and
why?
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 ! |
ahhhh Replicraft! they ran off with $1300 of mine. Fortunatley I paid with
my Mastercard and they ended up reversing the charge but the process was long
and painful.
I don't understand why Steve from Replicraft did such a thing. The quality of
his parts were 110% top notch.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 !
Please, lets not get started on Replicraft again. We just did 4-5 days on copyrights.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary W Meadows
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: quick- build Pietenpol kit in 2005 !
Wayne,
There was a fellow a few years back who made parts for sale for the Piet and
a few others. In pictures, they looked like very nice parts, but I never saw
any in person. I guess he's gone now, his name was Steve something and the outfit
was called Replicraft. I often considered buying some of his steel parts,
but ended up cutting my own. He even sold fuselages and rib sets and quite a
bit of other stuff. I don't know if there's a market or not.
I did buy a very nice set of hubs from Ken Perkins and will get them laced
into wheels when I get the rims together. For me, it's basically doing whatever
is fun and interesting. I didn't want to mess with the hubs cause I ain't that
great a welder and I'm not a machinist at all, so I jumped at the chance to
buy a set of hubs. I may not make my engine mount either - we'll see. I know
Mike Cuy farmed out a few projects on his own plane. But then, so did Orville
and WIlbur, it ain't no thaing. Just have fun! If you haven't started yet, get
some sticks and start building ribs - after 28-30 ribs, anything will seem like
fun!
Good luck with your project!
Gary Meadows
Spring, TX
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