---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/31/04: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:01 AM - Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges (Clif Dawson) 2. 06:26 AM - 601, Oshkosh, Brodhead Update (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 06:26 AM - Re: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges (DJ Vegh) 4. 06:29 AM - fuel flow problem (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 06:44 AM - Re: fuel flow problem (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 6. 06:48 AM - Re: 601, Oshkosh, Brodhead Update (del magsam) 7. 07:01 AM - Re: Inspections (Richard Carden) 8. 07:10 AM - Re: fuel flow problem (Richard Navratil) 9. 07:11 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (Larry Nelson) 10. 07:22 AM - Re: fuel flow problem (Mike King) 11. 08:25 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (DJ Vegh) 12. 08:41 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (Larry Nelson) 13. 08:52 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (Isablcorky@aol.com) 14. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Inspections (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 15. 09:51 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (DJ Vegh) 16. 09:55 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (Carl D. Vought) 17. 10:36 AM - Re: Trailering a Pietenpol (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 18. 10:39 AM - Alex Sloan (Michael D Cuy) 19. 10:44 AM - Re: How many ounces does it take (Rcaprd@aol.com) 20. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Inspections (Michael D Cuy) 21. 10:56 AM - Re: How many ounces does it take (Michael D Cuy) 22. 11:00 AM - Re: fuel flow problem (Rcaprd@aol.com) 23. 11:35 AM - Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Stacy Clark) 24. 12:31 PM - Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (John Ford) 25. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Doyle Combs) 26. 02:47 PM - Re: How many ounces does it take (Waytogopiet@aol.com) 27. 05:10 PM - Re: fuel flow problem - me too. (Bert Conoly) 28. 05:37 PM - .020" aluminum leading edge (DJ Vegh) 29. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Ed Grentzer) 30. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Mike Luther) 31. 08:10 PM - Pietenpol Opps Manual (Rcaprd@aol.com) 32. 08:42 PM - Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual (BARNSTMR@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:42 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges <41320CA9.5FE55F5E@gci.net> <014a01c48e10$a1b9b620$0100a8c0@Desktop> <004f01c48e5b$565c8a90$42705118@dawsonaviation> <021901c48ef4$197aa910$0100a8c0@Desktop> Oops! They are locked. There's a wood screw in each flange. I was agreeing with you DJ. Brain must have taken shortcut on way to mouth. ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges >>The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems. That doesn't mean the eyebolts will never rotate. It takes an extra 5 minutes to fix it and the consequences of a locked control surface could be fatal. Some things can be left to fate but respectfully, I disagree and this is not one those things. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block. Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra 1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ). I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand. Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be brain food! ). :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure them so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control surface in flight. A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version with a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length of music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the shank and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing edge spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Luther To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... Stacy: I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab. Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the Piet idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1 hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S. Mike L. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:00 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 601, Oshkosh, Brodhead Update --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Maybe I missed seeing this posted to this list, but Mike Cuy and Doc Mosher appear in a photo on William Wynne's latest update to his ZenVair 601 page, about halfway down, at http://flycorvair.com/601.html If this is a repeat of an earlier post, I apologize. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:44 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges a wood screw in each flange will do the trick to. Glad to hear they are secured. don't worry, my brain always gets ahead of my mouth and end up saying some pretty funky things too. :) of course that usually happens at the niteclubs right as I'm trying to talk to the most hottest babe in the place. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges Oops! They are locked. There's a wood screw in each flange. I was agreeing with you DJ. Brain must have taken shortcut on way to mouth. ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges >>The yellow Piet in the "Victoria Piets" file on Mykitplane has eyebolts and is old enough to have been rebuilt and recovered a number of years ago. No mention of eyebolt or flight problems. That doesn't mean the eyebolts will never rotate. It takes an extra 5 minutes to fix it and the consequences of a locked control surface could be fatal. Some things can be left to fate but respectfully, I disagree and this is not one those things. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges Looking at the plans again it appears to me that the brace interferes with the hinge bolts anyway. The block does not have to be very thick, 1/4" will work fine. If you do decide to go the eyebolt route the block will be an advantage as the shank doesn't have to go through the angled brace. It will be in the middle of the block. Also why would there be much more weight at the end? The bolt or bolts, depending on the hinge used are only going to be an extra 1/4" long and the block weighs nothing. Another also, the brace wires attach half way between the two outer hinges ( 11" in from the tip ). I wish I'd thought of Corky's idea of mounting the hinges beforehand. Getting nuts down between the gussets will be fun ( crawdads must be brain food! ). :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab - AN43 eyebolt hinges be very creful with the AN43 eyebolt style hinges. If you do not secure them so that they can not rotate in the hole you could get a locked up control surface in flight. A good way to keep them from rotating is to use the drilled shank version with a castle nut. instead of putting a cotter pin on it, use a short length of music wire that has a round loop bent into one end. Slide it through the shank and use a wood screw through the loop and screw it into lead or trailing edge spar. It is only necessary to secure one side of the hinge. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Luther To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Need Help on Horizontal Stab. Diagonals... Stacy: I read your E-mail and went downstairs to take a look at my uncovered stab. Then I came back upstairs and read Clif Dawson's reply. Then I went back downstairs to take another look at my stab. I would go with #4. Cause #2 would cause interference with my elevator hinges and # 4 has half as many pieces to deal with. Also, I used the GN-1 idea for elevator hinges instead of the Piet idea for hinges. The Piet elevator hinges are more original, but the GN-1 hinges(Eye-bolts) can be purchased thru AS&S. Mike L. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:26 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg carb. Engine won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve, through the gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow. But no fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position or anything else, she won't fire due to no fuel. Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body to see if something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas before we go dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine has been shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and running the engine till it quits. Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:57 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com I have seen some types of rubber flex fuel hose that swells internally, resulting in restricted fuel flow between gascolator and carburetor. However, you said you have verified flow all the way to the carburetor, but the carburetor has no fuel. So it is evidently an internal carburetor blockage or restriction. It would have to be that the needle valve stuck closed. -- Terry B. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:01 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 601, Oshkosh, Brodhead Update My Sonex was parked next to williams Zenvair. and I forgot to bring my camera. If anyone has a pic of that row of airplanes, or of my sonex, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks much Del Oscar Zuniga wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Maybe I missed seeing this posted to this list, but Mike Cuy and Doc Mosher appear in a photo on William Wynne's latest update to his ZenVair 601 page, about halfway down, at http://flycorvair.com/601.html If this is a repeat of an earlier post, I apologize. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:04 AM PST US From: Richard Carden Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Inspections --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Richard Carden I read references to "inspections" prior to covering, and don't know who is supposed to inspect what. I built a GlaStar and had no "inspections" other than casual visits from my EAA Chapter's Technical Counselor until the aircraft was ready for the FAA inspection and certificate issuance. Then two very nice guys from the local FSDO spent a half-day with me (8 squalks, all minor and some even picky, I thought) before signing off. They didn't need/want to inspect anything that couldn't be viewed from inspection holes or not visible with removal of cowling, cockpit floor, etc. Is there something unique to fabric construction that requires an inspection prior to covering? If so, would somebody please give me some details. Many thanks, Dick Carden, GN-1/Cumberland, VA ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:46 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" You could try removing the nut on the bottom of the carb bowl to see if it is a stuck float. Take a small screwdriver and try raising and lowering the float. If not it is probably the seal on the needle valve or a clogged jet. Have you used auto fuel with alchohol it it? That will ruin some seals. Thats what happened to mine. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg carb. Engine > won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve, through the > gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow. But no > fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position or anything > else, she won't fire due to no fuel. > > Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body to see if > something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas before we go > dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine has been > shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and running the > engine till it quits. > > Thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:32 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son, Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length. Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be roadworthy. His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the wheel and the fuselage. Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of the trailer and mount the wings on these racks. Anybody got any good ideas we can steal? ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:08 AM PST US From: "Mike King" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike King" Oscar, I am NOT a mechanic, but when I had the SAME problem, a mechanic friend of mine took out a small bolt in the carb and shot some gas in there. It then fired up on the first or second blade. Some folks say once the engine fires up the float the acts properly and then engine/carb work fine. In my case, it turned out the carb needed to be overhauled (the idle side of the carb was gummed up from sitting so long with car gas)......long story. My Stromberg has the mixture wired to full rich so I have to cut off the engine using the mag switch. Hope this helps. I know there are a lot of pros on this list with better suggestions. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg carb. Engine won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve, through the gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow. But no fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position or anything else, she won't fire due to no fuel. Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body to see if something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas before we go dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine has been shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and running the engine till it quits. Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ========= ========= ========= http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list ========= ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:51 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" Thats exactly what I did when I trailered a GN-1 from No. Cal to AZ. Up to 90mph and 900 miles. Everything went well. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving > from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a > Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son, > Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard > Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be > using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length. > > Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport > and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is > not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be > roadworthy. > > His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the > fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the > wheel and the fuselage. > > Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of > the trailer and mount the wings on these racks. > > Anybody got any good ideas we can steal? > > ===== > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > _______________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:08 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson DJ, when you say that is what you did.......which way was it that you used? (I presented two ideas). Did you use the side racks or nest the wings against the fuselage????? Any nuggets of info will be appreciated. --- DJ Vegh wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > Thats exactly what I did when I trailered a GN-1 > from No. Cal to AZ. Up to > 90mph and 900 miles. Everything went well. > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Nelson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > > > > Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be > driving > > from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for > a > > Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son, > > Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard > > Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will > be > > using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" > length. > > > > Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for > transport > > and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims > is > > not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be > > roadworthy. > > > > His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside > the > > fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between > the > > wheel and the fuselage. > > > > Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides > of > > the trailer and mount the wings on these racks. > > > > Anybody got any good ideas we can steal? > > > > ===== > > Larry Nelson > > Springfield, MO > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > > SV/ Spirit of America > > ARS WB0JOT > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:16 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol How can one go 90mph in a 70moh airplane? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:46 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Inspections --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Richard, Human error is unfortunately the cause of many preventable accidents. There can never be too may eyes go over an assembly of parts to ensure nothing was inadvertantly left undone or incorrectly done. I worked as an A&P mechanic under high pressure to get work out the door for 7 years. We worked on high performance aircraft with many complex systems. I learned to be a very consciencious mechanic and took on many good work habits from my co-workers to minimize my mistakes. We had checklists and stopping points where inspections were required before proceeding. We had a team of inspectors to check our work. It was rare to make it thru an inspection without leaving off a ty-wrap...a safety wire... a cotter pin... or sometimes totally miss something obvious. It seemed that it was usually the most mundane or simple task that went awry. With all the inspections, leak-checks, re-checks, and preflight operational tests, human error seemed to find a way to make it through. Fortunately, in my seven years, I only had one in-flight event occur... an air conditioner fluid line left un torqued. I am glad that nobody was hurt because of my mistake. When it comes to your homebuilt project, you are intimately familiar with every part. You spend hour after hour looking at things. I can tell you from experience, that looking at the same thing over and over can lead you to miss something simple. It is always best to have inspectors check your work. As for pre-cover inspection... it is best to have a trained inspector who knows the kinds of things to look for. Most FAA licensed A&P with Inspection Authorization (I.A.) are very good for this task. For certified ariplanes this is who must perform this task. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:15 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" sorry..... got ahead of myself. I tied the fuse down in the center of the trailer tail first, then rested the leading edge of the wings between the gear legs and the tires (with foam of course). The wings chord went up towards the top of the center section and were tied to it. Lots of foam and tie-downs. worked fine DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > DJ, when you say that is what you did.......which way > was it that you used? (I presented two ideas). Did you > use the side racks or nest the wings against the > fuselage????? Any nuggets of info will be > appreciated. > > > --- DJ Vegh wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > > > > Thats exactly what I did when I trailered a GN-1 > > from No. Cal to AZ. Up to > > 90mph and 900 miles. Everything went well. > > > > DJ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Larry Nelson" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:11 AM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > > > > > > > > Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be > > driving > > > from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for > > a > > > Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son, > > > Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard > > > Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will > > be > > > using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" > > length. > > > > > > Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for > > transport > > > and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims > > is > > > not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be > > > roadworthy. > > > > > > His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside > > the > > > fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between > > the > > > wheel and the fuselage. > > > > > > Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides > > of > > > the trailer and mount the wings on these racks. > > > > > > Anybody got any good ideas we can steal? > > > > > > ===== > > > Larry Nelson > > > Springfield, MO > > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > > > SV/ Spirit of America > > > ARS WB0JOT > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > _______________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:32 AM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" We took a Lohle Sport Parasol down to Sun-N-Fun a couple of years ago. (Of course, that airplane is much lighter than a Piet).We used a utility trailer from Harbor Freight,lengthened the tongue, loaded the fuselage tail first and installed racks to mount the wings vertically alongside the fuselage. On the way back to Huntsville, we were met by a fast-moving eighteen wheeler that simply blew the trailer over on it's side, damaging one wing and the landing gear of the Lohle. Later, I bought a Piet in Chicago. I loaded the fuselage the same way on the same trailer, but built a "headache rack" on the pickup and loaded the wings in the horizontal, rather than vertical plane, on top of the truck. No problem this time. If you would like to see pictures, contact me off-line. Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:11:25 -0700 (PDT), Larry Nelson wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving > from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a > Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son, > Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard > Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be > using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length. > > Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport > and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is > not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be > roadworthy. > > His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the > fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the > wheel and the fuselage. > > Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of > the trailer and mount the wings on these racks. > > Anybody got any good ideas we can steal? > > ===== > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > > _______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:25 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailering a Pietenpol --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Larry, Here's how we transported our Piet Project..(see link) only 15 miles, but we could have made it across country this way. Terry B. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=SCF0007.JPG&PhotoID=1936 In a message dated 8/31/2004 10:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Larry Nelson writes: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > >Wes Scott (another list member) and I will be driving >from Missouri to Waynesboro, VA next Wednesday for a >Thursday morning hook up with Joe Santana's son, >Peter, who will help Wes and me load up the Howard >Henderson aircraft for hauling back to MO. We will be >using a flat trailer with 77" width and 16'2" length. > >Joe Santana has the plane disassembled for transport >and the wings are in a A shaped rack the he claims is >not roadworthy......but could be reinforced to be >roadworthy. > >His suggestion is to "rack" the wings alongside the >fuselage, nestling the wing in the V space between the >wheel and the fuselage. > >Wes is thinking we should built racks on the sides of >the trailer and mount the wings on these racks. > >Anybody got any good ideas we can steal? > >===== >Larry Nelson >Springfield, MO >Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A >1963 GMC 4106-1618 >SV/ Spirit of America >ARS WB0JOT > > > >_______________________________ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:42 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alex Sloan And most importantly, Alex Sloan, the man being honored ! Mike C. Oscar-- thank you. I don't know if Alex had seen this or not. At 08:25 AM 8/31/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > >Maybe I missed seeing this posted to this list, but Mike Cuy and Doc >Mosher appear in a photo on William Wynne's latest update to his ZenVair >601 page, about halfway down, at http://flycorvair.com/601.html > >If this is a repeat of an earlier post, I apologize. > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:04 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many ounces does it take --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Max, I used the uncertified fabric from AS&S, and the Stits method. I covered the wing, and the fuselage with the medium 2.8 oz fabric, and the empenage and ailerons with the lighter 1.7 oz fabric. My reasoning was that the wing and fuse take the abuse, and I wanted to keep the tail and control surfaces as light as possible. The lighter fabric is easier to work with, but fabric work in general is not difficult...once you get the hang of it. Fabric is also relatively easy to repair. Rib stitching is a bit of a chore, but it can be a little quicker if you use 4 or 5 needles at a time, one for each ribs. My wing has about 500 stitches in it !! In fact it is very satisfying to see the project at this stage, once you get over the fact that you MUST cover up all that beautiful wood work !! Now, have at it, and get that bird covered !! Chuck G. p.s. did an early morning flight this morning...naw I didn't get up early, I went to the airport after working the hoot owl shift. Absolutely beautiful sunrise, dead calm winds, and about a million miles visibility. Checked out some fields up close and personal, to the south of Cook field. Flew next to a pickup truck for several miles. He waved back and had a big smile !! Greased in the softest full stall landing I've ever done !! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:19 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Inspections Richard-- you go about your certification the same as you did with your GlaStar. The MIDO/FSDO FAA people do not do pre-cover inspections like they used to. There are Tech Couselors thru EAA, like you had from your Chapter, that are always a good idea AND if you get them to document their visits, I'm told that your insurance rate could be less expensive if you have something like three visits during the course of your building process. Don't quote me on that---check with EAA and Falcon who now is the "Avemco" for EAA. That used to be the policy with Tech C. visits, it may not be the case anymore. Dunno. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:52 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many ounces does it take Max-- I used uncertified (comes from the same mill as the certified stuff !) 1.8 oz from Superflite and then the dope process after that. Would not change a thing except to have added reinforcing tapes over the stingers......but we got in a hurry. Dumb ! Mike ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:27 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Oscar, Sounds like your float is stuck. Is it the rubber tip float needle ? Pull the plug on the bottom of the carb, and if no fuel flow there, then tap on the carb. If there is fuel in the carb, and fuel flow is normal out the bottom of the carb, then you might as well check how much flow. There is 128 oz per gallon, and lets just say 5 gal per hour burn rate. Thats 640 oz. per hour, or 10.6 oz. per minute. Check and see if you get about 11 oz per minute fuel flow. If you do, then put the plug back in. If it still doesn't start, then try this - With the mags OFF, open the throttle about half way, and flip the prop backwards about 10 blades. Mags ON, throttle idle, and try to start. Chuck G. p.s. I gotta watch these sunrises more often !! ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:03 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush Chris, Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the "bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for full explanation [company name intentionally left blank]). As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first place. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:39 PM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" Stacy, Isn't shipping long loads in a Beaver with one of the windscreen panes removed (and the "load" sticking way out the front) considered normal? I bet all the wood for a Piet fits nicely in an Otter. As an ATC operator, I would think you might know an Alaska Airlines or Mark Air guy or two who would love to help your charity project out gratis. As far as that goes, you could probably construct your entire airplane out of dead standing timber (excellent wood) from the Kenai or Fairbanks. Now THAT would be cool... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:27:34 PM >>> Chris, Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the "bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for full explanation [company name intentionally left blank]). As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first place. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:54 PM PST US From: "Doyle Combs" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Doyle Combs" I hauled a Piet back to Texas from Ohio but the weather was rather bad, so I used a covered trailer and it was a real success as far as transportation goes. Doyle Combs ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ford" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" > > Stacy, > > Isn't shipping long loads in a Beaver with one of the windscreen panes > removed (and the "load" sticking way out the front) considered normal? > I bet all the wood for a Piet fits nicely in an Otter. As an ATC > operator, I would think you might know an Alaska Airlines or Mark Air > guy or two who would love to help your charity project out gratis. As > far as that goes, you could probably construct your entire airplane out > of dead standing timber (excellent wood) from the Kenai or Fairbanks. > Now THAT would be cool... > > John > > John Ford > john@indstate.edu > 812-237-8542 > > > >>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:27:34 PM >>> > Chris, > > Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went > away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the > "bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I > could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for full > explanation [company name intentionally left blank]). > > As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough > to ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first > place. > > Stacy > > There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and > that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:33 PM PST US From: Waytogopiet@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many ounces does it take In a message dated 8/30/2004 7:55:54 PM Central Standard Time, pietflyr@bellsouth.net writes: So I followed their advice and used medium weight throughout. it is tough stuff, and can certainly withstand a lot of abuse from finger-pokin' onlookers. Jack Phillips Here's my two cents for anyone with concerns about which weight to use. I opted for the lighter weight and was pleased with the results....BUT...one moment of carelessness when I somehow snagged the elevator cable aft of where it exited the fabric and I heard a great rip.When I looked, sure enough there was a four inch tear which also dislodged the leather grommet ( which apparently offered little protection.) The patching and matching took far longer than the original covering and was a setback I didn't need. I now ask myself if I were to build another Piet would I opt for the heavier fabric ? I think so !! Don Hicks ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:27 PM PST US From: "Bert Conoly" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem - me too. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" Oscar: Mine did the very same thing as Dick Navratil's and Mikes. Probably a gummed up needle valve/seat. Especially if it sat with car gas in it. Also, the idle pathways are REALLY small and prone to accumulation of varnish. I tried to clean mine but it never realy ran right. Sent it off for a 450.00 overhaul. (It looks nice, though) Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike King" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike King" > > Oscar, > > I am NOT a mechanic, but when I had the SAME problem, a > mechanic friend of mine took out a small bolt in the carb and > shot some gas in there. It then fired up on the first or second > blade. > > Some folks say once the engine fires up the float the acts > properly and then engine/carb work fine. > > In my case, it turned out the carb needed to be overhauled > (the idle side of the carb was gummed up from sitting so long > with car gas)......long story. > > My Stromberg has the mixture wired to full rich so I have to > cut off the engine using the mag switch. > > Hope this helps. I know there are a lot of pros on this list > with better suggestions. > > Mike King > GN-1 > 77MK > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Oscar Zuniga > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:29 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow problem > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > Here's a question for you folks flying the A-65 with Stromberg > carb. Engine > won't start. Fuel is flowing from the tank, through the valve, > through the > gascolator, all the way to the carb... all just fine, good flow. > But no > fuel is getting into the carb. Regardless of throttle position > or anything > else, she won't fire due to no fuel. > > Next step is to remove the cowling and try tapping the carb body > to see if > something is stuck and can be loosened up. Any other ideas > before we go > dismantling the carb? It has no mixture control and the engine > has been > shut down using the mags, not by closing the fuel valve and > running the > engine till it quits. > > Thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ========= > ========= > ========= > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > ========= > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:02 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: .020" aluminum leading edge --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" most plans have .016" aluminum leading edge, but I hear from lots of folks that it can dent too easily by a stray hand or the occasional hangar bump. So I ordered up some .020" sheet. Has anyone used this on thier Piet? If so how did you go about installing it? did you pre-bend the leading edge radius? It looks like this task will be a pain in the ass. tips and advice please. DJ _ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:28 PM PST US From: "Ed Grentzer" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed Grentzer" Man....904kbs in one e-mail....I was wondering why I haven't been getting any e-mails....My Hotmail acct was maxed out!!!!!! >From: "Stacy Clark" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:27:34 -0800 > >Chris, > >Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here they went away >about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call it the "bush" for >nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" Pietenpol I could probably >swing that :-) (See attached article for full explanation [company name >intentionally left blank]). > >As far as the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to >ship "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first place. > >Stacy > >There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and >that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ><< SoYouWanttobeaBushPilot_modifiedexample.doc >> Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:31 PM PST US From: Mike Luther Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush <023e01c48f88$3268a6e0$69aaa1d1@DJQ7LV21> Stacy: Doug Fir is a good substitute for Sitka if you are in a pinch. Most wood buildings built before 1970 or so, used Doug Fir. The clearest Doug Fir can be salvaged from older door jambs, trim, frame and panel doors and from floor joists. If you are in doubt about grain, then try splitting some the same way you would split firewood. Perfectly straight up to 1 in 15 slope and you are good to go assuming the end grain count is also good. Happy Scrounging!!!! P.S. If I were dreaming I would try to find someway to use the beautiful Sitka Spruce logs that I say on Kodiak Island and also saw in Seldovia. Mike L. Stacy Clark wrote: > Chris, Trees? What's are those? If there ever were any trees here > they went away about the same time as the mastadons. They don't call > it the "bush" for nothing. Now, if I wanted to make a "willow" > Pietenpol I could probably swing that :-) (See attached article for > full explanation [company name intentionally left blank]). As far as > the wood, fortunately, the pieces I'll need are short enough to ship > "normally." It's just the point of having to in the first > place. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the > impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:13 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Doyle, When we were at Tick Hill, you mentioned you would like me to send you (e-mail) the text of the Pietenpol Operations Manual that I made. Do you still want it ? I sent you an e-mail asking you, but I didn't get a response. Does anyone else want to see it ? Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:18 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual Please send me a copy. I really like your manual. And my airplane should end up in a similar configuration as yours. Hey Chuck... I am going to be in Wichita in a week or two working in Augusta. I haven't yet nailed down the date. I will be flying in a rented Cessna 172. Does anyone have hangar space at Cook for about 3 days? I'll be glad to pay the standard rate. I plan to bring you two VHS tapes from Sterling and a CD of pics from Tick Hill. I hope to get a little time to bum around the airport with you. Terry DO NOT ARCHIVE.