---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/02/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Re: test flights (James Dallas) 2. 05:03 AM - () 3. 06:01 AM - Re: (Michael D Cuy) 4. 06:13 AM - Re: Pietenpol Opps Manual (Michael D Cuy) 5. 07:13 AM - wire wheel weights (Douwe Blumberg) 6. 07:22 AM - Re: (Dick and Marge Gillespie) 7. 08:32 AM - Re: wire wheel weights (Richard Navratil) 8. 08:44 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/01/04 (Craig Lawler) 9. 09:56 AM - the age 60 rule for airline pilots (Michael D Cuy) 10. 10:57 AM - Re: wire wheel weights (Ralph) 11. 11:21 AM - Re: wire wheel weights (Michael D Cuy) 12. 11:34 AM - Re: Air Tech covering system (Steve Eldredge) 13. 01:25 PM - Re: the age 60 rule for airline pilots (John Ford) 14. 02:10 PM - Re: Air Tech covering system (hjarrett) 15. 02:10 PM - Re: (hjarrett) 16. 04:59 PM - Re: Air Tech covering system (Steve Eldredge) 17. 05:59 PM - Re: Wire wheel weights () 18. 06:48 PM - Re: (Jim Ash) 19. 07:55 PM - To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... (Larry Ragan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:52 AM PST US From: "James Dallas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: test flights Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:38:03 -0500 Dick, I would make a flight test journal, more for your records than anyone elses. Keep a list of what you did, the squawks that you have, and what you did to fix them. If out on a fight and no squawks, then just note the time flown, what you did and where you went. Don't forget to note the landings. Looking thru the logbooks of older aircraft you can sometimes see the early history of where the plane has been and why. Some have even noted their hamburger runs. Years from now you may get a kick out of it, or someone else might if the aircraft is handed over to another generation. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: test flights I was reading the EAA flight testing procedures and the FAA circular on certifications. The only reference I found to records regarding flight testing, is the requirement for a log entry at the end of phase 1 tests. I have been updating my operations manual with test data, is it necessery to keep an detailed flight summary for the record? Dick ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:15 AM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1.16 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time. What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already been installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require removing the plugs. Thanks, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:34 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Greg-- we used to remove the rubber hose (or metal tubing) from the oil pressure gauge at the engine end or fitting and then squirt oil into the oil pump via that route with an oil can on our old Champ. (after not flying it for say two or three mos. in the winter) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:31 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Opps Manual <1094060341.41360935ad584@www.wotelectronics.com> Guys-- my operating manual is, check oil, check fuel, preflight, seat belt on, climb 55, land 55, and put in hangar. Do not carry fat people on hot days. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:19 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights Can anybody tell me what their wire wheels weighed, with or without brakes. I'm using large rims with old fashioned smooth clincher tires, which look great, but they're heavy. Want to compare to regular alloy motorcycle rims and tires. Douwe ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:57 AM PST US From: "Dick and Marge Gillespie" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Greg, On my A-65 w/tapered shaft, on the left front, as you face the engine, there is a removable plug. Remove it and pump engine oil into it. DickG. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time. What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already been installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require removing the plugs. Thanks, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:03 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights I used the Harley 21" wheels. With rotors, calipers and axle, total 63 lb I compared notes with Greg Cardinal a while back and I belive his was similar. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights Can anybody tell me what their wire wheels weighed, with or without brakes. I'm using large rims with old fashioned smooth clincher tires, which look great, but they're heavy. Want to compare to regular alloy motorcycle rims and tires. Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/01/04 From: Craig Lawler --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Craig Lawler Chuck, Please send a copy of you Operators Manuel. Craig Lawler 899CL ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:52 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: the age 60 rule for airline pilots Guys- I know this is way off topic, but please forgive me. One of my long time annoyances has been the early retirement age that is imposed on airline pilots. Here is a good story about a guy who should still be at the controls, if he desired that. Mike C. do not archive In the eyes of the FAA, George Brunstad is a decade too old to fly an airliner but that didn't stop him from making a transoceanic crossing of a different sort. The retired American Airlines pilot, from Ridgefield, Conn., became the oldest person to swim the English Channel last Saturday. Brunstad celebrated his 70th birthday the Wednesday before the swim, which he completed in 15 hours and 59 minutes. Brunstad, through his swim, raised more than $11,000 for Haitian orphans and said thinking of the kids kept him going. Brunstad claimed the title from Bertram Clifford Batt, of Australia, who was almost 68 when he swam the channel in 1987. "I was going to do this," he told reporters afterward. "Too many people were depending on me." ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:19 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights I am using two rear wheels for a motocross motorcycle (about a 250 cc I think). They have about a four inch wide hub. I had the local machine shop turn out the center and install a brass bushing to fit the axle pipe. They weigh about 13 lbs each bare, no brakes or tires. I dont plan on using brakes as I will be flying off my own alfalfa field. Carol and Ralph Raymond ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:57 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights Guys-- I'm not sure how much my 19" wheels and tires weigh but I bought aluminum rims to save some weight and even tho I have a rotor on there for disc brakes and a thick-walled 4130 axle, my plane still only weighs 632 lbs. I personally think the looks of the wire wheels and wood gear are well worth the weight and the look. They are the #1 thing that people seem to like about the plane at a show or fly-in. Mike C. (PS-- the gear legs are a pain in the patootski to get to fit just right, but ask Jack Phillips or Jim Markle how purty they look when done. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system From: "Steve Eldredge" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" I just decided to use it on my stinson. I have the packages still in the garage. (been there a month) Their manual is nothing compared to the polyfiber manual. You must use fresh air. Tech support isn't quite as good as the polyfiber guys, but seems to be fine with my pre-sales questions. Among the polyurethane choices it seems to be the winner. I covered my piet with polyfiber products up to the tapes then used latex for the top coats, and for a rank beginner the manual was very user friendly. Now that I've got one under the belt I don't have hesitation with a new system since I generally understand what is going on. Another advantage of Airtech is the many color choices, instead of just 50 polyfiber colors. That and the glossy finish is why I choose Airtech for the Stinson. Cost is about the same for any. Superflight is another worth looking into if you want another company to choose from. Steve E -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech fabric covering system? http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html == == == == ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:06 PM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the age 60 rule for airline pilots 8 or 10 years ago I sat through a final checkride for a soon-to-be-retiring heavy pilot (heavy airplane, not so heavy pilot). It was in a full motion sim. The examiner was 80-something, had had multiple bypasses, incredibly sharp and full of clever dirty tricks. These guys were both absolutely amazing. Of course, the chances of them both dropping dead at the same time (or on the same leg) is statistically so remote you can't see there from here, but still not airline pilot material anymore. I can understand the reasoning, considering how old people sometimes like to drive through farmers' markets these days, but resent that the rule is based more on uninformed public perceptions rather than on meaningful statistical evidence. I file that in the same category as having multi-colored terrorist threat alert levels: meaningless crap that is supposed to make me feel safer by reminding me how afraid I'm supposed to be. I'd rather have a 75-year-old (and reasonably healthy) master flying me around than a 40-year-old bored throttle-jock in perfect physical condition. John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:56:29 AM >>> Guys- I know this is way off topic, but please forgive me. One of my long time annoyances has been the early retirement age that is imposed on airline pilots. Here is a good story about a guy who should still be at the controls, if he desired that. Mike C. do not archive In the eyes of the FAA, George Brunstad is a decade too old to fly an airliner but that didn't stop him from making a transoceanic crossing of a different sort. The retired American Airlines pilot, from Ridgefield, Conn., became the oldest person to swim the English Channel last Saturday. Brunstad celebrated his 70th birthday the Wednesday before the swim, which he completed in 15 hours and 59 minutes. Brunstad, through his swim, raised more than $11,000 for Haitian orphans and said thinking of the kids kept him going. Brunstad claimed the title from Bertram Clifford Batt, of Australia, who was almost 68 when he swam the channel in 1987. "I was going to do this," he told reporters afterward. "Too many people were depending on me." ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:27 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" What kind of latex did you use? Was it applied over the Butyrate silver coat, the clear or the Nitrate? How does it hold up? I already bought the base color in Butyrate but would like to hear options for the trim color that won't break the bank. Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" > > I just decided to use it on my stinson. I have the packages still in > the garage. (been there a month) Their manual is nothing compared to the > polyfiber manual. You must use fresh air. Tech support isn't quite as > good as the polyfiber guys, but seems to be fine with my pre-sales > questions. Among the polyurethane choices it seems to be the winner. I > covered my piet with polyfiber products up to the tapes then used latex > for the top coats, and for a rank beginner the manual was very user > friendly. Now that I've got one under the belt I don't have hesitation > with a new system since I generally understand what is going on. > Another advantage of Airtech is the many color choices, instead of just > 50 polyfiber colors. That and the glossy finish is why I choose Airtech > for the Stinson. Cost is about the same for any. Superflight is > another worth looking into if you want another company to choose from. > > Steve E > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:03 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech > fabric > covering system? > > http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html > > > == > == > == > == > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:27 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: One thing that works great on my Taylorcraft is to lift the tail (as high as you can get it and still have prop clearance), pull a plug from each cylinder and pull the prop through. I can flip the prop hard enough to get the pressure gauge to move with the plugs out (but it ain't easy). I have trouble getting pressure on start after long times sitting. If I leave the tail up so the engine is level while storing the plane I get pressure immediately (and I don't have to repack the bearings in the wheels after the hangar floods) Hank (I put the mains up on ramps, I hate Hurricanes!) J ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time. What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already been installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't require removing the plugs. Thanks, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:32 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system From: "Steve Eldredge" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" If that is the case try vinyl stick on decals. You can buy a roll of it or have it custom cut. As to the latex, I painted on two coats right over the bare fabric to seal the weave and provide UV, then 2-3 color top coats. 7 years and still going strong. Easily repairable. Don't ask how... It really is a wonder it hasn't caught on more. Especially on older vintage airplanes where it really looks period. (1930's-1950's) Steve e -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hjarrett Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" What kind of latex did you use? Was it applied over the Butyrate silver coat, the clear or the Nitrate? How does it hold up? I already bought the base color in Butyrate but would like to hear options for the trim color that won't break the bank. Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" > > I just decided to use it on my stinson. I have the packages still in > the garage. (been there a month) Their manual is nothing compared to the > polyfiber manual. You must use fresh air. Tech support isn't quite as > good as the polyfiber guys, but seems to be fine with my pre-sales > questions. Among the polyurethane choices it seems to be the winner. I > covered my piet with polyfiber products up to the tapes then used latex > for the top coats, and for a rank beginner the manual was very user > friendly. Now that I've got one under the belt I don't have hesitation > with a new system since I generally understand what is going on. > Another advantage of Airtech is the many color choices, instead of just > 50 polyfiber colors. That and the glossy finish is why I choose Airtech > for the Stinson. Cost is about the same for any. Superflight is > another worth looking into if you want another company to choose from. > > Steve E > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:03 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Tech covering system > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > anyone out there with experience or second hand knowledge of Air Tech > fabric > covering system? > > http://www.airtechcoatings.com/fabriccovering.html > > > == > == > == > == > > == == == == ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:33 PM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wire wheel weights Douwe, I don't have the weights for the individual wheels but here is the rundown on NX18235: 19 X 3.50 tires 19" aluminum rims 8 gauge, stainless steel spokes (40 per wheel) Hubs per Howard Henderson's plans All steel, fittings and cables per original plans No brakes Total weight of landing gear is 60 pounds Rundown on the entire airplane: Long fuselage A-65 2.7 oz. fabric Absolute minimum instrumentation 3 piece wing Galvanized steel fuel tank in center section (15 gal. cap.) Stainless steel firewall Walnut and maple prop No significant deviations from the plans Empty weight came in at 621 lbs. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights Can anybody tell me what their wire wheels weighed, with or without brakes. I'm using large rims with old fashioned smooth clincher tires, which look great, but they're heavy. Want to compare to regular alloy motorcycle rims and tires. Douwe ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:39 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I used to have a stool that lived in my hangar under the tailwheel of my J-3. This was after seeing and hearing about tailposts rusted to nothing (and the owner not knowing about it sometimes because the fabric somewhat held things in place) in J-3's, because of condensation running down the inside belly of the plane for years. The plane was tied down inside the hangar with the standard points under the wings, angling slightly forward toward the ground, and two points on the tail, out at 45-degree angles from the tail. This was to relieve the risk of the tail falling off the stool and busting something. It wasn't going anywhere tied down that way. My only mistake was painting the stool to match the plane, including my N-numbers on top. These were open-front hangars, so I used to lay the stool down, N-numbers out, to mark my spot. It disappeared when the plane was gone for a week. Jim Ash At 9/2/2004 04:59 PM -0400, you wrote: >One thing that works great on my Taylorcraft is to lift the tail (as high >as you can get it and still have prop clearance), pull a plug from each >cylinder and pull the prop through. I can flip the prop hard enough to >get the pressure gauge to move with the plugs out (but it ain't easy). I >have trouble getting pressure on start after long times sitting. If I >leave the tail up so the engine is level while storing the plane I get >pressure immediately (and I don't have to repack the bearings in the >wheels after the hangar floods) >Hank (I put the mains up on ramps, I hate Hurricanes!) J >----- Original Message ----- >From: gcardinal@mn.rr.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:03 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: > >Dale and I are getting ready to start our A-65 for the first time. >What is the proper procedure for priming the oil pump? Plugs have already >been >installed and tourqued so I would prefer to find a way that doesn't >require removing the plugs. > >Thanks, >Greg Cardinal >Minneapolis ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:25 PM PST US From: "Larry Ragan" Subject: Pietenpol-List: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" Hunker down and God be with everyone in the path of Frances. Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan@hotmail.com