Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - Re: welding (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... (Larry Ragan)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: welding (Mike)
4. 08:42 AM - decorative propeller (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 11:23 AM - Re: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... (John Carmen)
6. 01:44 PM - Re: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... (hjarrett)
7. 07:10 PM - Re: welding (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200
feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a
single MIG weld joint came apart.
I also had welded a toe extension on the fuselage using a TIG system. Not a
single TIG joint broke either, yet the crash was so traumatic to the fuselage
and wings, tubing failed and broke in places other than joints.
I'd say to double check the Tony Bineglis series of books and get info from
this source. Most of the "old-school" thought still suggests using gas welding
however, but I'd say research this as best as you can, and if you aren't an
experienced welder, get some schooling or take it to a pro.
As a sidebar to this story, the Avid wing has aluminum tubular spars and
wooden ribs. The wooden ribs are glued the spar (don't be alarmed) and the process
that Dean Wilson developed (Dean designed the Avid and the Kitfox and the
Global Explorer to name a few) has never failed. When my Avid was wrecked, not
a
single wood to aluminum joint failed either. Furthermore, the fabric is glued
(not rib-stitched) to the rib. There was very little evidence of fabric
separation from the rib, except in the area where the wing actually impacted the
asphalt runway. The capstrip on the Avid, however, is 3 times as wide as an Air
Camper.
I'm not suggesting that rib-stitching not be used on an Air Camper. My Avid
was an Aerobatic Speedwing and the Avid factory demonstrator was an Aerobatic
tri-gear. We did all sorts of unusual maneuvers in these birds and fabric has
never, ever pulled away from a wooden capstrip. But, the capstrip was very
wide, and the glue process was much improved over what Bernard had access to many
years ago.
Sterling Brooks
Central Texas
Message 2
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| Subject: | To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan" <lragan@hotmail.com>
Hope everyone survived o.k. What a b..ch Frances was. We've just now had our power
turned back on, and the people from Daytona and south got hammered.
Thanks to all of the volunteer utility companies that come down to get things back
to normal. We saw several convoys of bucket trucks from N.C., headed south
yesterday. They're our heroes.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan@hotmail.com
Message 3
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Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper
knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion bonded,
or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding can
save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies.
HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill level,
cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't be able
to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most liability-conscious
manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest and
cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200 feet
after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a single
MIG weld joint came apart.
...snip...
Message 4
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| Subject: | decorative propeller |
I've got a buddy who is looking for a prop to hang on his wall.
Anybody have a junker prop they want to sell?
Douwe
Message 5
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| Subject: | To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan"
Hello Larry I lost power for about 24 hours here in Macclenny. Bunch
of limbs and braches lying around. Jacksonville schools were closed
today thus I don't have to go to work.
John C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Ragan
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and
gals....
Hope everyone survived o.k. What a b..ch Frances was. We've just now
had our power turned back on, and the people from Daytona and south got
hammered.
Thanks to all of the volunteer utility companies that come down to get
things back to normal. We saw several convoys of bucket trucks from
N.C., headed south yesterday. They're our heroes.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan@hotmail.com
Forums.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals.... |
The Fla., Alabama and Georgia guys (as well as workers from Tenn., MO and a bunch
of others I didn't recognize the markings on the truck) were OUR heroes last
September when NC and VA got hit. None of us will ever be even, and maybe that's
good.
Hank (Took 9 months for the airport to fix my hangar door so I could get my plane
out!) J
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Ragan
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: To the Fl., Ga., and Alabama guys and gals....
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry Ragan"
Hope everyone survived o.k. What a b..ch Frances was. We've just now had our
power turned back on, and the people from Daytona and south got hammered.
Thanks to all of the volunteer utility companies that come down to get things
back to normal. We saw several convoys of bucket trucks from N.C., headed south
yesterday. They're our heroes.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan@hotmail.com
Matronics Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/04 7:40:33 AM Central Daylight Time,
aquanaut@indy.rr.com writes:
<< Is MIG welding acceptable for 4130 Steel? >>
I use oxy / accy for any thin wall tubing. Mainly, because it works, it's
relatively inexpensive...and it's all I've got !! However, when the time comes,
I'm going to tack weld my Wittman Tailwind fuselage together with a borrowed
mig, then finish weld the entire airframe with oxy / accy, including
completely welding through the tack welds.
Chuck G.
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