Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:59 AM - carb icing (Ralph)
2. 06:16 AM - strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 06:25 AM - N518EP at Blakesburg (Textor, Jack)
4. 06:26 AM - Re: carb icing (Mike)
5. 11:02 AM - Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire att (Hubbard, Eugene)
6. 11:11 AM - Fw: [vula] Air Camper (Little joke :-) (Gary Gower)
7. 11:13 AM - 75 Anniversary Hats are ready -Finally! ()
8. 02:00 PM - metric clevis pins (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
9. 03:24 PM - Re: metric clevis pins (DJ Vegh)
10. 04:38 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points (Peter W Johnson)
12. 05:51 PM - Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points (Rcaprd@aol.com)
13. 06:12 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (hjarrett)
14. 06:39 PM - Re: 75 Anniversary Hats are ready -Finally! (Borodent@aol.com)
15. 06:50 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (DJ Vegh)
16. 09:57 PM - Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach (Mike Luther)
17. 09:58 PM - Gussets, Gussets, Gussets (Stacy Clark)
18. 10:34 PM - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (Stacy Clark)
19. 11:01 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (Mike Luther)
20. 11:30 PM - Re: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets (Mike Luther)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ralphhsd@itctel.com>
I need to finish my engine conversion. I have the manifold and exhaust left
to do. A few years ago the BPA newsletter had a note from a man who had
installed the water heated plate from a Ford Falcon between the manifold and
carb. I can't relocate the article and am wondering if anyone out there in
cyberland would be familiar with this approach. I have the water heated
plate from a Falcon, but the holes don't come close to lining up. I would
like to contact the person who used this approach to learn how he
accomplished the mounting. As much as the rpms drop when you pull the carb
heat on an aircraft engine I wonder if the same effect occurs on the "A"
engine when it is constantly fed warm air for combustion. Is it possible to
keep the manifold heated enough to stop icing but still use cool air intake
for greater power?
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
Message 2
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Subject: | strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points |
I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across the bottom
cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing the
front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one between the
rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It kind
of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm thinking
I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts?
Douwe
Message 3
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Subject: | N518EP at Blakesburg |
I attended Blakesburg last weekend. There was only one Piet, 518EP. It
was beautiful, well built and light. The owner Ty Daniels said it
weighed 575 pounds. I believe he is from Brodhead. Ty are you on the
list? I have attached a picture.
Jack Textor
Des Moines
Message 4
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike" <bike.mike@verizon.net>
Ralph,
Carb icing doesn't occur in the manifold but in the carburetor itself, at
the venturi. It is the adiabatic cooling, caused by the drop in pressure at
the venturi, that causes the moisture in the air to condense out of the
airflow and freeze, when there is enough moisture in the air. Carburetor
heat raises the temperature of the incoming air to the point where the ice
melts.
If the carb heat is left on all the time, carb icing can still occur, but at
a much lower ambient air temperature than normally. If that happens, you
don't have any carb heat left to melt the ice...bad.
The RPM drop you get when you use carb heat is caused by the decreased
density of air that is taken into the cylinders, the same effect that is
felt, to a certain extent, on a hot day.
Having the water-heated plate would still heat the air going into the
cylinders but would probably not remove any ice formed in the venturi
upstream of the plate.
So, having the plate hot all the time would rob you of power and would
probably not do any good as carb heat.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd@itctel.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb icing
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ralph" <ralphhsd@itctel.com>
>
> I need to finish my engine conversion. I have the manifold and exhaust
left
> to do. A few years ago the BPA newsletter had a note from a man who had
> installed the water heated plate from a Ford Falcon between the manifold
and
> carb. I can't relocate the article and am wondering if anyone out there
in
> cyberland would be familiar with this approach. I have the water heated
> plate from a Falcon, but the holes don't come close to lining up. I would
> like to contact the person who used this approach to learn how he
> accomplished the mounting. As much as the rpms drop when you pull the carb
> heat on an aircraft engine I wonder if the same effect occurs on the "A"
> engine when it is constantly fed warm air for combustion. Is it possible
to
> keep the manifold heated enough to stop icing but still use cool air
intake
> for greater power?
>
> Carol and Ralph
> Raymond
>
>
Message 5
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|
ach points
Subject: | strap fitting between landing/flying wire att |
ach points
As I remember, both are mentioned on the plans as "optional". I'm certainly
planning to use them.
Spent yesterday evening fitting 3-piece wing root flashing. Lots of nits.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach
points
I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across the
bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach
fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing
the front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one
between the rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It
kind of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
thinking I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts?
Douwe
Message 6
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Subject: | Fwd: [vula] Air Camper (Little joke :-) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
This Flying Flea is not a Pietenpol nor a GN-1...
But could qualify as an "Air Camper" ?
Saludos
Gary Gower.
> --- pietenpol2002 <jppp@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > To: vula@yahoogroups.com
> > From: "pietenpol2002" <jppp@juno.com>
> > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 03:53:47 -0000
> > Subject: [vula] Air Camper
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gives new meaning to Bernie Pietenpol's concept of
> > "Air Camper".
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > http://jolly.roger.free.fr/m111.htm
> >
> >
_______________________________
Message 7
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Subject: | 75 Anniversary Hats are ready -Finally! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
Hey everyone, The hats are back from the embroidery shop and they look great.
Thanks to those who encouraged me to do this again this year. Im offering free
shipping to everyone on any number of hats. I can get the image on shirts
and fleece throws and may offer that if I can get my money back from hat sales.
Any proceeds will be used to support my family and low and slow flying habit!
More details below.
Ive got the same hat shells as last time, but with some added colors. Black seemed
to be the most popular front bill size and so I ordered most in black. I do
have a dozen each of the Green, Red, and Yellow Gold however.
Here is the specs and pricing:
The Hat:
Heavy Stone Washed Denim low crown unconstructed buckle back adjustment. Color
is khaki with a green, red, black or gold bill. (sorry no blue this time.)
One size fits all. Basically I got my favorite hat and called the manufacture and
spec'd it from it. You will love it. It is crushable and comfortable.
The Image:
The 75 year anniversary image will be similar to the one on previous years hats,
but this one has a Gold 75 YRS on the front. I think it is really cool. Check
the web site if you want to see the revised image.
http://aircamper.byu.edu
The embroidery:
13000 stitches of the finest thread. 75 Years in Gold thread
The price
$20
Free Shipping!!!
Send me an email including details and your Phone # to:
steve@byu.edu
Check or paypal OK.
Paypal address is wifeopilot@sfcn.org
Checks go to:
Steve Eldredge
2810 E Canyon Rd
Spanish Fork UT 84660
Message 8
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Subject: | metric clevis pins |
Is there anyone on the list who is from a country where metric parts are available?
I have some small turnbuckles with a .150 hole in the pin end and I would like
to find some clevis pins to fit. Wicks has 1/8" pins, but they are a loose
fit.
Dennis
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: metric clevis pins |
try Ronstan. they are from "down under" and may use metric sized parts.
http://www.ronstan.com/arch/
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: metric clevis pins
Is there anyone on the list who is from a country where metric parts are available?
I have some small turnbuckles with a .150 hole in the pin end and I would
like to find some clevis pins to fit. Wicks has 1/8" pins, but they are a loose
fit.
Dennis
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
<< Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little concerned
that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
Any ideas? >>
Douwe,
Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build one
the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the plans call
out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
Chuck G.
Message 11
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Subject: | strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points |
Douwe,
My British produced plans call for straps front and back. I have them
installed.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Subject: Pietenpol-List: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach
points
I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across the
bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach
fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing
the front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one
between the rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It
kind of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
thinking I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts?
Douwe
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach points |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/8/04 8:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
<< I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings across
the bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying wire/strut attach
fittings.
My project came with one he had run along the wooden cross piece traversing
the front cockpit floor between the front fittings, but there isn't one
between the rear set.
I can't find them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It
kind of makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
thinking I should add one to the back as well.
Any thoughts? >>
Those straps need to be there, and are shown on Drawing No. 3. B.H.P. used
them. For new construction you can incorporate them into the tongue that
attaches the lower end of the lift struts, and use .060" X 2" wide straps. This
is what the illustration shows. Weld the gear lugs right to the bottom. They
go across the bottom, between the lift strut / gear attach fittings. They
accept the G loads of the wing, when you drop it in on landing.
I had some nasty squawks in this area, to take care of before I went on my
'Tour America'. On the front strap, it bowed down away from the bottom of the
fuse. The aft strap has bolts through it, securing the safety strap for the
control torque tube, rudder bar support, master cylinder pivots, and seat belt
lugs. No problem on the aft strap. I drilled one hole in the middle of the
front strap, but it was still not enough. The strap now bows down on the left
side, between the gear lug, and bolt. I will add another bolt to each side of
the center bolt, for a total of three #10 bolts spaced evenly across the
strap. I also had to rework the four 'L' brackets on the inside. They were not
thick enough, and were not 4130 steel, so the bolt torque dimpled them. I made
new ones, and used .060" for the inside 'L' brackets. This was the same AOG
(aircraft on ground) period that I built spring struts, to replace the bunji
struts. I much prefer the spring struts. I have tested this airframe design
to the extreem, by bounding in some really nasty landings, and I can't break
it !! The best part is that I can regain control. Bernard Harold Pietenpol
really got it right in his design...don't change it !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the "originality"
place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load passes
through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot strength
load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
>
> << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
>
> Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
concerned
> that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
>
> Any ideas? >>
>
> Douwe,
> Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build one
> the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the plans
call
> out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: 75 Anniversary Hats are ready -Finally! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com
In a message dated 9/8/04 2:13:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@byu.edu
writes:
<< http://aircamper.byu.edu >>
great photos
Henry Williams
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
IMO flight controls should be made from 4130 steel (and in some carefully
engineered cases, aluminum).
Would you use a broom handle for a control stick?!
DJ
:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
>
> There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
"originality"
> place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
> strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
> than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
> make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
passes
> through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
strength
> load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> Hank J
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
> >
> > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> concerned
> > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
> >
> > Any ideas? >>
> >
> > Douwe,
> > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build
one
> > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the
plans
> call
> > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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|
points
Subject: | Re: strap fitting between landing/flying wire attach |
points
Douwe:
I ran one across fore and aft. Yeah, I know it adds weight, but it is
real easy to take of the gear in one piece and roll it out of the way
when I am covering the fuselage.
Mike L.
NX1953M
Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> I've seen one some Piets, that their builders ran strap fittings
> across the bottom cross piece between the landing gear/flying
> wire/strut attach fittings. My project came with one he had run along
> the wooden cross piece traversing the front cockpit floor between the
> front fittings, but there isn't one between the rear set. I can't find
> them on my plans so I'm thinking it is a builder addition. It kind of
> makes sense, to just tie everything together side to side, so I'm
> thinking I should add one to the back as well. Any thoughts? Douwe
Message 17
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Subject: | Gussets, Gussets, Gussets |
I have two question about gussets:
1. What is the width of the fuselage gussets? From looking at the plans and photos
I assume that they are about 2-1/2" wide x "X length" i.e.: required to
cover the trusses and diagonals. Am I correct?
2. Are the inside gussets for the fuselage cut away so the top and bottom trusses
and diagonals can mate directly to the longerons. I would assume this is
the reason they are mostly 1/2" x 1" x "X". I have seen in photos that this doesn't
seem to be the case but it seems illogical.
Thanks,
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 18
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Subject: | Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
I have to retract something I previously said about AS&S (I recommended people
not buy from them), to wit:
When I bought my spruce kit from AS&S I elected for the (their) "Modernized Pietenpol"
due to it being their only option for the three piece wing. I wrongly
assumed this was the "Improved Aircamper" (1933). It was not. I found out I
could have (read: should have) elected for the standard Piet spruce kit and got
some extra wood for the center section. As it was I paid about $300 extra
for those two pieces and a lot of "thicker" wood and some "shorter" pieces (#6
trusses) and had to sacrifice the 1x1's of the elevators for those. And was
missing the 1x1 for the rudder entirely to boot. Anyway, I was pretty upset and
felt that AS&S should have designed/planned their kit better as there wasn't
even enough to finish the basics without ordering extra stock...
Yesterday I spoke with one of their customer service department folks and explained
the situation. She said she would try and get the material and shipping
waved and sent two-day air. I wasn't really in the mood to battle over the $300.00
extra I paid as I was on my way to work and I will save that for another
day. I though that was that...
This morning I got a call from who I assumed was another of their customer relations
people and I began to explain the situation to her. She kept cutting me
off and I was almost at the "Okay now let REALLY talk" stage, i.e.: I'll scream
you listen. When I realized that she was not from customer relations at all
and was in fact from their catalog/materials department. She was calling me
to find out what was wrong with their kit. Put another way, "What did we (meaning
AS&S) screw up on in the kit and how can we fix it. Not only for you, but
for 'everyone'". WOW!
Though I'm still not thrilled that I paid extra money to begin with, that kind
of service is certainly a rarity nowadays. It was completely unexpected and I
was impressed!
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
<005801c4960a$16b952e0$d2ddf6ce@hjarrett>
Douwe:
I have been a cabinetmaker for years and years and have spent extra time
incorporating wooden touches in my plane, but it never occured to me to use Ash
for a rudder bar. Now that you have mentioned it I have a couple of ideas that
might be fun, but only if they are safe and fairly light weight. Maybe two
layers of .063 chrome moly plate with an ash center, kinda like a sandwich. Or
two layers of ash with a rectangular tube steel center. Add a few lightening
holes and test it next to Bernies idea of a rudder bar. If you are comfortable
with a total destruction test on your original idea, then its ok by me.
As the saying goes, "You can build it different than Bernie, but you can't build
it better"
Take care,
Mike L.
hjarrett wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
>
> There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the "originality"
> place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
> strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> (unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
> than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
> make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load passes
> through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> (only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot strength
> load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> Hank J
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/04 10:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << Can you guys estimate the max amount of force put on the rudder bar?
> >
> > Mine is made of Ash wood which is very strong, I'm just a little
> concerned
> > that there's not enough "meat" left around the cable bolts for my taste.
> >
> > Any ideas? >>
> >
> > Douwe,
> > Ash wood is the Wrong material for a rudder bar. Remove it, and build one
> > the way the plans show. The rudder bar is one of the few things the plans
> call
> > out specifically 'Rudder bar is chrome molly tube' (4130 steel).
> >
> > Chuck G.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets |
Stacy:
I have 2 1/4 wide gussets
My inside gussets for the fuselage aren't cut away. Notching the
gusset weakens the strength of the vertical truss and does not add any
strength to the horizontal truss.
Take care,
Mike L
NX1953M
272 other bikers and I attended the "Live Ride" (Anchorage to Kenai)
and were fortunate to raise $53,000 for the MDA kids. Feels gooood!!
Stacy Clark wrote:
> I have two question about gussets: 1. What is the width of the
> fuselage gussets? From looking at the plans and photos I assume that
> they are about 2-1/2" wide x "X length" i.e.: required to cover the
> trusses and diagonals. Am I correct? 2. Are the inside gussets for
> the fuselage cut away so the top and bottom trusses and diagonals can
> mate directly to the longerons. I would assume this is the reason
> they are mostly 1/2" x 1" x "X". I have seen in photos that this
> doesn't seem to be the case but it seems illogical. Thanks,Stacy There
> is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
> is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
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