Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Carb ice (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
2. 12:35 AM - Hi-Definition Piet Pics (Jimmy Courtney)
3. 12:37 AM - Wood Rudder Bars (Clif Dawson)
4. 02:49 AM - Re: Horizontal stab question (Jack Phillips)
5. 04:26 AM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (Stacy Clark)
6. 04:37 AM - Re: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets (Stacy Clark)
7. 04:41 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (Stacy Clark)
8. 04:44 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (Stacy Clark)
9. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Stacy Clark)
10. 05:16 AM - Top & Bottom Struts and Braces (Stacy Clark)
11. 05:22 AM - Horizontal stab attach idea (Michael D Cuy)
12. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (John Ford)
13. 06:35 AM - Re: Horizontal stab question (walt evans)
14. 06:51 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/03/04 (Tugwilsons@aol.com)
15. 07:48 AM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
16. 09:29 AM - Re: carb icing (Carl D. Vought)
17. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Stacy Clark)
18. 02:23 PM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (John Carmen)
19. 03:55 PM - Re: welding (HOEVELMANN)
20. 06:15 PM - Re: welding (Don Morris)
21. 07:13 PM - Re: Horizontal stab attach idea (djv@imagedv.com)
22. 08:02 PM - Re: welding (Jim Ash)
23. 10:59 PM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (Jimmy Courtney)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
ETAtAhUAhKB6HgYiiZpHWNPUK2RLtfC/jnICFAQElKY+sIp/Oo+60+aQ1hNk2WE6
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
At the Model A forum at Brodhead we learned that the model A engine,
even in the car would ice up while driving across the equator in August.
That is why the intake manifold was bolted directly to the hot exhaust
manifold. It looks to me that the theory is that heat will creep down
the manifold, threw the carb bolts then heating up the cast iron carb
keeping it free of ice. There was another picture in the old newsletter
where a couple of guys made a sheet alum. shroud to cover the vertical
tube of the intake. They said that it eliminated their carb ice problem,
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Hello Everyone!
Does anyone know where on the web I can find some Piet photographs that are highly
detailed...say 500k bytes file-size or larger? I want to frame some for the
shop so my friends can see what I'll be building this summer. Thanks for any
info!!!!
Jim Courtney,
Florence, Mississippi
---------------------------------
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Wood Rudder Bars |
I have been following this discussion with some concern
and amusement. First, the entire airframe is wood and
softwood at that. On a weight for weight basis wood is
stronger than steel. The main problem stems from the
methods of joining wood to itself and other things.
The amount of material around the point of stress, as
in a pivot bolt or cable attachment is the concern here.
as that is where the strength lies. Our ingenious
ancestors were forced to figure out how to deal with
this centuries ago. In ships, wagons, buildings, anywhere
tremendous loads were imposed and structures had to
be light enough to be useable.
The answer lies in the fittings I have shown in the attached
drawings. Metal collars and plates at fitting and bearing
points allow full use of woods strength while allowing
sections to be trimmed of excess material.
Another telling point is that there exists piets and other
planes with wood struts. There are wood struts in the
making as we speak. I haven't seen a lot of concern
expressed regarding the strength and safety in this area.
It all boils down to the specific engineering involved and
there are plenty enough examples of sound, working
wooden wonders out there.
Clif, Hey beertender, how about another bar!
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Horizontal stab question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Hi Rick,
The stabilizer is attached with two bolts through the spar, passing through
the top longerons, and with the small angle fittings at the trailing edge,
which are bolted through the tail post.
The plans call for the spar to be screwed to the longerons with "#7 screws",
which of course are not even available now. I used AN3-27A bolts on mine,
passing through the longerons into self-locking nutplates screwed to the
underside of the longerons.
Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC
Taking NX899JP to the airport tomorrow!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland <at7000ft@speedtrail.net>
Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two
bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires?
It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most
people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the
top longerons for the stab bolts?
Thanks
Rick Holland
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Jim,
Go to Peter's Pietenpol Page. It's by far the best I've found for large reference pics. http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm . I also use "Altavista" for image searches. Just type in the searchwords pietenpol, aircamper, etc. http://www.altavista.com . There's a nice pic of Michael Cuys Piet (large) out there too...(Mike, you know which one I'm talking about?). I also have a pretty good drawing of mine (attached is a small reduced image of it). If you want a hi-res (1024x768) bmp of it I can send that but don't want to take up the space here. I'd need your email for that.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets |
Thanks Mike. Thanks for the door molding tips too.
Stacy
Do not archive
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Luther
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets
Stacy:
I have 2 1/4 wide gussets
My inside gussets for the fuselage aren't cut away. Notching the gusset weakens
the strength of the vertical truss and does not add any strength to the horizontal
truss.
Take care,
Mike L
NX1953M
272 other bikers and I attended the "Live Ride" (Anchorage to Kenai) and were
fortunate to raise $53,000 for the MDA kids. Feels gooood!!
Stacy Clark wrote:
I have two question about gussets: 1. What is the width of the fuselage gussets?
From looking at the plans and photos I assume that they are about 2-1/2"
wide x "X length" i.e.: required to cover the trusses and diagonals. Am I
correct? 2. Are the inside gussets for the fuselage cut away so the top and bottom
trusses and diagonals can mate directly to the longerons. I would assume
this is the reason they are mostly 1/2" x 1" x "X". I have seen in photos that
this doesn't seem to be the case but it seems illogical. Thanks,Stacy There
is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to
achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Walt,
Thanks for the offer. No need though. Taken care of (see my AS&S post).
Stacy
Do not archive
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty |
Corby Starlet...love that plane! Be one cool way to commute to work in California.
Stacy
Do not archive
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
John,
Well, as it happens one of the ASA captains did give me a 737-200c "Mudhen"
hat out of the blue the other day...(my new favorite hat) Also, one of the
guys I share the hanger with was telling me about when he used to fly a BE18
"up" 5th St. in Anchorage because the plane was always so loaded down. Said
he could see the secretarys in the windows on the second and third floors as
he passed. Of course that stuff never happens nowadays ;-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Top & Bottom Struts and Braces |
Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the top
and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts and
braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders) shows
them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Horizontal stab attach idea |
Hello Rick-- this is how I attached my horizontal stabilizer.
Mike C.
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Stacy,
I always love telling people about the one-way runway at Merrill Field
(departures 15, arrivals 33 because of the Native American Hospital just
off the field). I don't know if they still do it or not, but when
departing you usually had to expedite and deviate right of centerline
immediately after takeoff for arriving traffic. It's wild to be staring
at a landing light while on your takeoff roll. For that matter, it's
wild to be staring at a landing light on final. Of course, all this
would happen while 6/24 would be active with nearly a dozen aircraft in
the pattern. Crazy stuff, but it sure teaches one to look outside the
cockpit now and then for traffic. :) When I soloed at Merrill there
were 8 planes in the pattern for 24 and something like a 1500' ceiling
and light rain. When I checked-out in an Arrow there were a half-dozen
SuperCubs and T-crates in the pattern. Good times...
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Friday, September 10, 2004 6:53:17 AM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark"
<stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
John,
Well, as it happens one of the ASA captains did give me a 737-200c
"Mudhen"
hat out of the blue the other day...(my new favorite hat) Also, one of
the
guys I share the hanger with was telling me about when he used to fly a
BE18
"up" 5th St. in Anchorage because the plane was always so loaded down.
Said
he could see the secretarys in the windows on the second and third
floors as
he passed. Of course that stuff never happens nowadays ;-)
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
Rick,
you can have too many inspection plates! I put an inspection plate on
the side of the fuse under the horz. stab. This way you can reach in and
reach the other end of all the hardware.
The front angle brackets from the vert stab. lined up perfectly for the
bolts to go right thru the longerons. Not quite like the original prints.
And the rear is held the original way. I even added the brass screws,,,they
look good.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@speedtrail.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland
<at7000ft@speedtrail.net>
>
> Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two
> bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires?
> It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most
> people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the
> top longerons for the stab bolts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick Holland
>
>
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/03/04 |
Any chance of a copy of the Pietenpol operators manual. Please e-mail to
_tugwilsons@aol.com_ (mailto:tugwilsons@aol.com)
mmany thanks
t
Tug
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Also, check out
www.mykitplane.com
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
I've been wondering for some time why we do not see a particular Model-A
auto practice being incorporated in the aircraft conversion. To be
specific, in the car installation, the intake manifold is solidly bolted to
the exhaust manifold. I theorize that this is not done for structural
reasons, but to enhance the thermal contact between the two manifolds to
warm the intake manifold and carburetor. I don't think the warming is just
to prevent the formation of ice in the venturi (although this is bound to
be one result), but also to warm the air/gas mixture inside the intake
manifold in order to prevent recombination and consequent droplet formation
which makes ignition more difficult, decreasing fuel efficiency. The VW
engine has (or had) a similar provision: to accomplish the same purpose, VW
engineers piped some of the exhaust gasses into a tube that was brazed to
the intake manifold tubes to warm them...I'd be interested to hear some
comments on this subject...Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:32:16 -0500, Don Morris <pietbuilder@donsplans.com>
wrote :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Don Morris
<pietbuilder@donsplans.com>
>
> Howdy.
>
> Just a couple of notes on carb ice - it happens, and it is bad -
> particularly in an aircraft where you really want that power.
> Traditional air cooled aircraft engines use heated induction air to melt
> the ice off. As mentioned, this robs an engine of power due to the fact
>
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
John,
Someone I know very closely his record so far is "number eleven, cleared to
land" at a little Bay Area 2600' single runway, single downwind, airport
with abreviated Class D just southeast of SFO. Five or six more still
coming in outside the airspace (number eleven just acknowledged with a smile
on his face [voice].) That same person's been up to nine a couple times up
here somewhere in Alaska. One time the ASA 737 was going to be #7. When he
checked late due to center holding him to get the airport in sight for the
VA the first thing tower said was "ASAXX make right traffic runway 36,
pretend you're a Cessna cuz you'll be following six of 'em." Not exactly
book phraseology but it did the trick. Opposite directions are fun too. At
a California Central Valley aiport this person once worked at the practice
instrument approaches were to 02 and most often the wind was best for 20
operations. It wasn't odd to hear (aircraft's already in position on 20
powered-up and ready to go)..."AmflightXXX, traffic 1/2 mile final, traffic
1/2 mile final runway 2 will turn away for you, ensure you start your turn
prior to the departure end, runway 2, cleared for take off." And here's one
just for giggles...Tower: "Cherokee123, ensure your transponder's on."
Cherokee: "Is it my Mode A or Mode C tower?" Tower: "Cherokee 123, it's D,
none of the above."
Definately do not archive :-)
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
Go to Google click on "images" above the search bar and then search
for pietenpol. It will give you all the piet images and no links just
pictures
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy
Courtney
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics
Hello Everyone!
Does anyone know where on the web I can find some Piet photographs that
are highly detailed...say 500k bytes file-size or larger? I want to
frame some for the shop so my friends can see what I'll be building this
summer. Thanks for any info!!!!
Jim Courtney,
Florence, Mississippi
_____
New
storage!
Message 19
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I know very little about welding but I get the idea that gas is the best way to
go. I am going to purchase a oxy-acetylene welding and cutting kit and wanted
to know how long do the small tanks that come with the kit last? Also what
is the difference between brazing and welding? Also what is the material you
use to weld? I can use any suggestions I can get.
Thanks, J.J. Hoevelmann
Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
From my one person experience so take it for what it's worth:
Contrary to all the folk lore, Gas welding is not that hard to learn. I didn't
want to weld my fittings but after a year of asking around the EAA people no
one was interested in helping me weld or even help teach me, wonderfully helpful
people these EAAers.. So I took a beginning class at a craft center here in
town (it wasn't that good of a class) I bought some books and the EAA tape on
welding (It was only OK, thankfully Chris Bobka helped me get it for half price
so it was worth the money. He's good EAA type people only wish he live closer.
Hey Chris want to move to California,? the house next door to me is for
sale, 1020 sqft 3bd 1 1/2 bath "only" $325,000. I'd even let you borrow my tools.)
Anyway, I bought a gas welding setup for $350 bucks and started practicing, after half my 40cf (?) smallish tanks I was making good welds. After the tank was gone I was comfortable with my welding ability. Probably not always perfect but I'm confidant they are good welds. It's not really that hard and I am glad I learned how to weld. Now I want to learn how to do real metal work (I never took metal shop class in high school). A good article to read is called "Zen and the Art of the Weld Puddle", by Budd Davisson. http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html I have recently purchased a smaller welding torch, a Meco from Tinmantech.com, it works better then my Victor knock-off.
Don't be afraid of welding like I was. It's really not that hard to learn how to
weld. Oxy-Acetylene is a very good way to weld both 4130 and Mild steel and
cheaper then TIG. You shouldn't braze 4130 (yes it can be done) but if you are
building to the plans you can braze the mild steel BHP calls for. What you
say? Yes, BHP does not call for 4130 everywhere (he actually calls 1430 cro-molly
I think) and that's ok because he designed it for the mild steel and it would
be plenty strong. I used 4130 because I didn't know better. Oh well, at
least it will be stronger.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Botsford
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Next month's issue of Sport Aviation will have the first in a series of articles
on welding aircraft alloy steels. It will be very helpful to those interested
in welding parts for aircraft use ( and others as well). The series is authored
by a gentleman named Scott Helzer. He recently conducted an extensive research
program on the methodology of welding for aircraft. I think this will
be very helpful and put to rest a lot of speculation as to what are the best
practices.
Jon Botsford
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
I agree with this.
I'm a computer nerd by profession, but I also spent 3 years at two nights a week
leaning welding. I certified on stick, and was working on a MIG cert when the
program came unglued.
All things being equal, gas is easier to learn. There are those who have learned
on MIG without ever learning gas and claim it's easier, but I question whether
their welds would hold up to strength testing and x-ray inspection. With gas,
you've got your heat source in one hand and your filler rod in the other, which
makes it easier to control how much of each you use. On a MIG (GMAW) welder,
both heat and feed rate are controlled by knobs on the face of the welder.
When you pull the trigger, you get what you've set up. If you don't know how
to translate what is happening when you strike a weld, you risk having problems.
A good MIG weld will sound like eggs frying. Personally, if you don't understand
how to gas weld, you've got no business welding with MIG.
When learning to weld, you're usually given a flat plate and you weld in a straight
line. This doesn't require you to reposition your arms or body to complete
the weld. Once you've learned this, then you learn to go around curves, specifically
pipe. I started on the pipe cert (using stick (SMAW)) with 6" diameter
pipe, but decided I had no personal use for it and moved on to MIG. The largest
diameter you've going to see doing a 4130 tube fuselage is going to be an
inch or so. Unless you've got a rotating jig, this is going to require you to
wrap yourself around the joint as you weld it up. And worse yet, it's in clusters,
so you've got all this other stuff in the way, which means you're going to
be crawling through this thing like a jungle gym. My guess is you're going to
have to start and stop a full-circle weld of these diameters at least 3 times
(maybe 2, if you're a good contortionist), just to get positioned. Each time
creates the possibility of some weakness, but if you
start
and stop correctly, you can control this.
Everything I've read about using TIG (GTAW) on 4130 tubing requires the welder
to go back and normalize the weld area, because the heat is applied to a very
localized area and the surrounding area gets very little. I've seen a bunch of
welds in which the joint held OK, but the tubing broke right next to the weld
because it was too brittle. The only thing I like more about TIG in this application
is that gas can be prone to inclusions (unwanted stuff embedded in the
weld), where it is really minimized with TIG. But I don't think the difference
here is enough to worry about. If I had a TIG rig, I'd personally do my fuselage
with TIG, then go back and normalize with gas. But I don't, so mine will
be gas welded.
I couldn't really justify the $1400 for the Lincoln 175 at Sun 'n Fun the last
2 years, and this is about the lowest I'd go for a good TIG machine. Besides,
a gas rig is cheaper than MIG or TIG, unless you've got acccess to somebody else's
equipment. Although I personally buy my gas bottles, they can also be leased
for a short or long term. Sometimes I'll lease big bottles if I've got a large
job to do. If you're going to buy gas equipment to do your plane, pick up
a Meco, Smith, or Henrob torch body. I wouldn't try it with a full-sized Victor
torch; they're good units for larger stuff, but they're just not agile enough
for what you need here.
Although I don't want to encourage sloppiness, we're all (I think) human here.
One of the plus sides to gas is that it's more forgiving of mistakes; a less-than-perfect
weld in gas will work. In MIG or TIG your odds are a lot worse.
Jim Ash
At 9/7/2004 06:08 AM -0700, you wrote:
Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper
knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion bonded,
or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding can
save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies.
HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill level,
cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't be able
to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most liability-conscious
manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest and
cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding
Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages.
My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200
feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured,
but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a
single MIG weld joint came apart.
...snip...
Message 20
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Don Morris <pietbuilder@donsplans.com>
Hi
Welding = strong
Brazing = not so strong.
Don't even think about brazing structural parts, unless it is
specifically called for. Brazing involves a bronze filler rod, and
temperatures high enough to melt the brass and stick it to the metal in
a process known as "adhesion." Welding actually melts the metal of the
two pieces (and often a filler rod of the same material) and intermixes
them, making the two pieces effectively one piece in a process known as
"fusion." Brazing can easily be spotted by the gold colored metal
around the joint.
Also, you can always braze a joint to touch it up, but you can never
weld the joint after you have brazed it. The gentleman who gave me my
fuselage (good friends are wonderful) welded several of the joints and
then brazed them. Then he found his mistake, and gave me the fuselage!
He also said "don't do what I did." Stick with fusion welds.
-Don
HOEVELMANN wrote:
> I know very little about welding but I get the idea that gas is the
> best way to go. I am going to purchase a oxy-acetylene welding and
> cutting kit and wanted to know how long do the small tanks that come
> with the kit last? Also what is the difference between brazing and
> welding? Also what is the material you use to weld? I can use any
> suggestions I can get.
> Thanks, J.J.
> Hoevelmann
>
Message 21
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Horizontal stab attach idea |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "djv@imagedv.com" <djv@imagedv.com>
Did you use any Locktite on that?
DJ
-----Original message-----
From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab attach idea
> Hello Rick-- this is how I attached my horizontal stabilizer.
>
> Mike C.
>
Message 22
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
--- MIME Errors ---
A message with no text/plain section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using plaintext formatting.
NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus
WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be
informed of the potential problem with their system as soon
as possible.
--- MIME Errors ---
Message 23
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics |
THANKS!!!! This is what I've been looking for!
Jim
Stacy Clark <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> wrote:
Jim,
Go to Peter's Pietenpol Page. It's by far the best I've found for large reference pics. http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm . I also use "Altavista" for image searches. Just type in the searchwords pietenpol, aircamper, etc. http://www.altavista.com . There's a nice pic of Michael Cuys Piet (large) out there too...(Mike, you know which one I'm talking about?). I also have a pretty good drawing of mine (attached is a small reduced image of it). If you want a hi-res (1024x768) bmp of it I can send that but don't want to take up the space here. I'd need your email for that.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Bethel Belle Reduced.jpg
---------------------------------
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|