---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/10/04: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:02 AM - Carb ice (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 2. 12:35 AM - Hi-Definition Piet Pics (Jimmy Courtney) 3. 12:37 AM - Wood Rudder Bars (Clif Dawson) 4. 02:49 AM - Re: Horizontal stab question (Jack Phillips) 5. 04:26 AM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (Stacy Clark) 6. 04:37 AM - Re: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets (Stacy Clark) 7. 04:41 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (Stacy Clark) 8. 04:44 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (Stacy Clark) 9. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Stacy Clark) 10. 05:16 AM - Top & Bottom Struts and Braces (Stacy Clark) 11. 05:22 AM - Horizontal stab attach idea (Michael D Cuy) 12. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (John Ford) 13. 06:35 AM - Re: Horizontal stab question (walt evans) 14. 06:51 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/03/04 (Tugwilsons@aol.com) 15. 07:48 AM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 16. 09:29 AM - Re: carb icing (Carl D. Vought) 17. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush (Stacy Clark) 18. 02:23 PM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (John Carmen) 19. 03:55 PM - Re: welding (HOEVELMANN) 20. 06:15 PM - Re: welding (Don Morris) 21. 07:13 PM - Re: Horizontal stab attach idea (djv@imagedv.com) 22. 08:02 PM - Re: welding (Jim Ash) 23. 10:59 PM - Re: Hi-Definition Piet Pics (Jimmy Courtney) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:44 AM PST US ETAtAhUAhKB6HgYiiZpHWNPUK2RLtfC/jnICFAQElKY+sIp/Oo+60+aQ1hNk2WE6 From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carb ice --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) At the Model A forum at Brodhead we learned that the model A engine, even in the car would ice up while driving across the equator in August. That is why the intake manifold was bolted directly to the hot exhaust manifold. It looks to me that the theory is that heat will creep down the manifold, threw the carb bolts then heating up the cast iron carb keeping it free of ice. There was another picture in the old newsletter where a couple of guys made a sheet alum. shroud to cover the vertical tube of the intake. They said that it eliminated their carb ice problem, ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:17 AM PST US From: Jimmy Courtney Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics Hello Everyone! Does anyone know where on the web I can find some Piet photographs that are highly detailed...say 500k bytes file-size or larger? I want to frame some for the shop so my friends can see what I'll be building this summer. Thanks for any info!!!! Jim Courtney, Florence, Mississippi --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:35 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Rudder Bars I have been following this discussion with some concern and amusement. First, the entire airframe is wood and softwood at that. On a weight for weight basis wood is stronger than steel. The main problem stems from the methods of joining wood to itself and other things. The amount of material around the point of stress, as in a pivot bolt or cable attachment is the concern here. as that is where the strength lies. Our ingenious ancestors were forced to figure out how to deal with this centuries ago. In ships, wagons, buildings, anywhere tremendous loads were imposed and structures had to be light enough to be useable. The answer lies in the fittings I have shown in the attached drawings. Metal collars and plates at fitting and bearing points allow full use of woods strength while allowing sections to be trimmed of excess material. Another telling point is that there exists piets and other planes with wood struts. There are wood struts in the making as we speak. I haven't seen a lot of concern expressed regarding the strength and safety in this area. It all boils down to the specific engineering involved and there are plenty enough examples of sound, working wooden wonders out there. Clif, Hey beertender, how about another bar! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:41 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Hi Rick, The stabilizer is attached with two bolts through the spar, passing through the top longerons, and with the small angle fittings at the trailing edge, which are bolted through the tail post. The plans call for the spar to be screwed to the longerons with "#7 screws", which of course are not even available now. I used AN3-27A bolts on mine, passing through the longerons into self-locking nutplates screwed to the underside of the longerons. Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC Taking NX899JP to the airport tomorrow! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires? It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the top longerons for the stab bolts? Thanks Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:11 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics Jim, Go to Peter's Pietenpol Page. It's by far the best I've found for large reference pics. http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm . I also use "Altavista" for image searches. Just type in the searchwords pietenpol, aircamper, etc. http://www.altavista.com . There's a nice pic of Michael Cuys Piet (large) out there too...(Mike, you know which one I'm talking about?). I also have a pretty good drawing of mine (attached is a small reduced image of it). If you want a hi-res (1024x768) bmp of it I can send that but don't want to take up the space here. I'd need your email for that. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:00 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets Thanks Mike. Thanks for the door molding tips too. Stacy Do not archive There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Luther To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 10:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets, Gussets, Gussets Stacy: I have 2 1/4 wide gussets My inside gussets for the fuselage aren't cut away. Notching the gusset weakens the strength of the vertical truss and does not add any strength to the horizontal truss. Take care, Mike L NX1953M 272 other bikers and I attended the "Live Ride" (Anchorage to Kenai) and were fortunate to raise $53,000 for the MDA kids. Feels gooood!! Stacy Clark wrote: I have two question about gussets: 1. What is the width of the fuselage gussets? From looking at the plans and photos I assume that they are about 2-1/2" wide x "X length" i.e.: required to cover the trusses and diagonals. Am I correct? 2. Are the inside gussets for the fuselage cut away so the top and bottom trusses and diagonals can mate directly to the longerons. I would assume this is the reason they are mostly 1/2" x 1" x "X". I have seen in photos that this doesn't seem to be the case but it seems illogical. Thanks,Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:44 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Walt, Thanks for the offer. No need though. Taken care of (see my AS&S post). Stacy Do not archive There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:56 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Corby Starlet...love that plane! Be one cool way to commute to work in California. Stacy Do not archive There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:25 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" John, Well, as it happens one of the ASA captains did give me a 737-200c "Mudhen" hat out of the blue the other day...(my new favorite hat) Also, one of the guys I share the hanger with was telling me about when he used to fly a BE18 "up" 5th St. in Anchorage because the plane was always so loaded down. Said he could see the secretarys in the windows on the second and third floors as he passed. Of course that stuff never happens nowadays ;-) Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:39 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Top & Bottom Struts and Braces Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the top and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts and braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders) shows them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:09 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab attach idea Hello Rick-- this is how I attached my horizontal stabilizer. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:18 AM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" Stacy, I always love telling people about the one-way runway at Merrill Field (departures 15, arrivals 33 because of the Native American Hospital just off the field). I don't know if they still do it or not, but when departing you usually had to expedite and deviate right of centerline immediately after takeoff for arriving traffic. It's wild to be staring at a landing light while on your takeoff roll. For that matter, it's wild to be staring at a landing light on final. Of course, all this would happen while 6/24 would be active with nearly a dozen aircraft in the pattern. Crazy stuff, but it sure teaches one to look outside the cockpit now and then for traffic. :) When I soloed at Merrill there were 8 planes in the pattern for 24 and something like a 1500' ceiling and light rain. When I checked-out in an Arrow there were a half-dozen SuperCubs and T-crates in the pattern. Good times... John John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> stacy@unicom-alaska.com Friday, September 10, 2004 6:53:17 AM >>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" John, Well, as it happens one of the ASA captains did give me a 737-200c "Mudhen" hat out of the blue the other day...(my new favorite hat) Also, one of the guys I share the hanger with was telling me about when he used to fly a BE18 "up" 5th St. in Anchorage because the plane was always so loaded down. Said he could see the secretarys in the windows on the second and third floors as he passed. Of course that stuff never happens nowadays ;-) Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:54 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Rick, you can have too many inspection plates! I put an inspection plate on the side of the fuse under the horz. stab. This way you can reach in and reach the other end of all the hardware. The front angle brackets from the vert stab. lined up perfectly for the bolts to go right thru the longerons. Not quite like the original prints. And the rear is held the original way. I even added the brass screws,,,they look good. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab question > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland > > Hey guys, what holds the horizontal stab to the fuselage, just the two > bolts through the 'main beam' through the top longerons and the wires? > It and the vert stab are not glued to each other are they? Do most > people use two blind nuts or regular stop nuts on the underside of the > top longerons for the stab bolts? > > Thanks > > Rick Holland > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:00 AM PST US From: Tugwilsons@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 09/03/04 Any chance of a copy of the Pietenpol operators manual. Please e-mail to _tugwilsons@aol.com_ (mailto:tugwilsons@aol.com) mmany thanks t Tug ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:17 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Also, check out www.mykitplane.com -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:55 AM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carb icing --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" I've been wondering for some time why we do not see a particular Model-A auto practice being incorporated in the aircraft conversion. To be specific, in the car installation, the intake manifold is solidly bolted to the exhaust manifold. I theorize that this is not done for structural reasons, but to enhance the thermal contact between the two manifolds to warm the intake manifold and carburetor. I don't think the warming is just to prevent the formation of ice in the venturi (although this is bound to be one result), but also to warm the air/gas mixture inside the intake manifold in order to prevent recombination and consequent droplet formation which makes ignition more difficult, decreasing fuel efficiency. The VW engine has (or had) a similar provision: to accomplish the same purpose, VW engineers piped some of the exhaust gasses into a tube that was brazed to the intake manifold tubes to warm them...I'd be interested to hear some comments on this subject...Carl Vought/Huntsville, AL On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:32:16 -0500, Don Morris wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Don Morris > > Howdy. > > Just a couple of notes on carb ice - it happens, and it is bad - > particularly in an aircraft where you really want that power. > Traditional air cooled aircraft engines use heated induction air to melt > the ice off. As mentioned, this robs an engine of power due to the fact > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:56 PM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol -- Alaskan Bush --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" John, Someone I know very closely his record so far is "number eleven, cleared to land" at a little Bay Area 2600' single runway, single downwind, airport with abreviated Class D just southeast of SFO. Five or six more still coming in outside the airspace (number eleven just acknowledged with a smile on his face [voice].) That same person's been up to nine a couple times up here somewhere in Alaska. One time the ASA 737 was going to be #7. When he checked late due to center holding him to get the airport in sight for the VA the first thing tower said was "ASAXX make right traffic runway 36, pretend you're a Cessna cuz you'll be following six of 'em." Not exactly book phraseology but it did the trick. Opposite directions are fun too. At a California Central Valley aiport this person once worked at the practice instrument approaches were to 02 and most often the wind was best for 20 operations. It wasn't odd to hear (aircraft's already in position on 20 powered-up and ready to go)..."AmflightXXX, traffic 1/2 mile final, traffic 1/2 mile final runway 2 will turn away for you, ensure you start your turn prior to the departure end, runway 2, cleared for take off." And here's one just for giggles...Tower: "Cherokee123, ensure your transponder's on." Cherokee: "Is it my Mode A or Mode C tower?" Tower: "Cherokee 123, it's D, none of the above." Definately do not archive :-) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:13 PM PST US From: "John Carmen" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics Go to Google click on "images" above the search bar and then search for pietenpol. It will give you all the piet images and no links just pictures -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Courtney Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics Hello Everyone! Does anyone know where on the web I can find some Piet photographs that are highly detailed...say 500k bytes file-size or larger? I want to frame some for the shop so my friends can see what I'll be building this summer. Thanks for any info!!!! Jim Courtney, Florence, Mississippi _____ New storage! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:30 PM PST US From: HOEVELMANN Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding I know very little about welding but I get the idea that gas is the best way to go. I am going to purchase a oxy-acetylene welding and cutting kit and wanted to know how long do the small tanks that come with the kit last? Also what is the difference between brazing and welding? Also what is the material you use to weld? I can use any suggestions I can get. Thanks, J.J. Hoevelmann Catdesign wrote: From my one person experience so take it for what it's worth: Contrary to all the folk lore, Gas welding is not that hard to learn. I didn't want to weld my fittings but after a year of asking around the EAA people no one was interested in helping me weld or even help teach me, wonderfully helpful people these EAAers.. So I took a beginning class at a craft center here in town (it wasn't that good of a class) I bought some books and the EAA tape on welding (It was only OK, thankfully Chris Bobka helped me get it for half price so it was worth the money. He's good EAA type people only wish he live closer. Hey Chris want to move to California,? the house next door to me is for sale, 1020 sqft 3bd 1 1/2 bath "only" $325,000. I'd even let you borrow my tools.) Anyway, I bought a gas welding setup for $350 bucks and started practicing, after half my 40cf (?) smallish tanks I was making good welds. After the tank was gone I was comfortable with my welding ability. Probably not always perfect but I'm confidant they are good welds. It's not really that hard and I am glad I learned how to weld. Now I want to learn how to do real metal work (I never took metal shop class in high school). A good article to read is called "Zen and the Art of the Weld Puddle", by Budd Davisson. http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html I have recently purchased a smaller welding torch, a Meco from Tinmantech.com, it works better then my Victor knock-off. Don't be afraid of welding like I was. It's really not that hard to learn how to weld. Oxy-Acetylene is a very good way to weld both 4130 and Mild steel and cheaper then TIG. You shouldn't braze 4130 (yes it can be done) but if you are building to the plans you can braze the mild steel BHP calls for. What you say? Yes, BHP does not call for 4130 everywhere (he actually calls 1430 cro-molly I think) and that's ok because he designed it for the mild steel and it would be plenty strong. I used 4130 because I didn't know better. Oh well, at least it will be stronger. Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Botsford Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding Next month's issue of Sport Aviation will have the first in a series of articles on welding aircraft alloy steels. It will be very helpful to those interested in welding parts for aircraft use ( and others as well). The series is authored by a gentleman named Scott Helzer. He recently conducted an extensive research program on the methodology of welding for aircraft. I think this will be very helpful and put to rest a lot of speculation as to what are the best practices. Jon Botsford ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding I agree with this. I'm a computer nerd by profession, but I also spent 3 years at two nights a week leaning welding. I certified on stick, and was working on a MIG cert when the program came unglued. All things being equal, gas is easier to learn. There are those who have learned on MIG without ever learning gas and claim it's easier, but I question whether their welds would hold up to strength testing and x-ray inspection. With gas, you've got your heat source in one hand and your filler rod in the other, which makes it easier to control how much of each you use. On a MIG (GMAW) welder, both heat and feed rate are controlled by knobs on the face of the welder. When you pull the trigger, you get what you've set up. If you don't know how to translate what is happening when you strike a weld, you risk having problems. A good MIG weld will sound like eggs frying. Personally, if you don't understand how to gas weld, you've got no business welding with MIG. When learning to weld, you're usually given a flat plate and you weld in a straight line. This doesn't require you to reposition your arms or body to complete the weld. Once you've learned this, then you learn to go around curves, specifically pipe. I started on the pipe cert (using stick (SMAW)) with 6" diameter pipe, but decided I had no personal use for it and moved on to MIG. The largest diameter you've going to see doing a 4130 tube fuselage is going to be an inch or so. Unless you've got a rotating jig, this is going to require you to wrap yourself around the joint as you weld it up. And worse yet, it's in clusters, so you've got all this other stuff in the way, which means you're going to be crawling through this thing like a jungle gym. My guess is you're going to have to start and stop a full-circle weld of these diameters at least 3 times (maybe 2, if you're a good contortionist), just to get positioned. Each time creates the possibility of some weakness, but if you start and stop correctly, you can control this. Everything I've read about using TIG (GTAW) on 4130 tubing requires the welder to go back and normalize the weld area, because the heat is applied to a very localized area and the surrounding area gets very little. I've seen a bunch of welds in which the joint held OK, but the tubing broke right next to the weld because it was too brittle. The only thing I like more about TIG in this application is that gas can be prone to inclusions (unwanted stuff embedded in the weld), where it is really minimized with TIG. But I don't think the difference here is enough to worry about. If I had a TIG rig, I'd personally do my fuselage with TIG, then go back and normalize with gas. But I don't, so mine will be gas welded. I couldn't really justify the $1400 for the Lincoln 175 at Sun 'n Fun the last 2 years, and this is about the lowest I'd go for a good TIG machine. Besides, a gas rig is cheaper than MIG or TIG, unless you've got acccess to somebody else's equipment. Although I personally buy my gas bottles, they can also be leased for a short or long term. Sometimes I'll lease big bottles if I've got a large job to do. If you're going to buy gas equipment to do your plane, pick up a Meco, Smith, or Henrob torch body. I wouldn't try it with a full-sized Victor torch; they're good units for larger stuff, but they're just not agile enough for what you need here. Although I don't want to encourage sloppiness, we're all (I think) human here. One of the plus sides to gas is that it's more forgiving of mistakes; a less-than-perfect weld in gas will work. In MIG or TIG your odds are a lot worse. Jim Ash At 9/7/2004 06:08 AM -0700, you wrote: Please understand what the message is regarding welding. Yes, with the proper knowledge and equipment, 4130 can be MIG welded, or TIG welded or diffusion bonded, or even glued into bicycle-type fittings. Done properly, MIG welding can save hours of work and produce beautiful and very reliable assemblies. HOWEVER, for the normal homebuilder, who has a competent hobbyist's skill level, cannot or will not spend the money on a heat-treat oven, and/or won't be able to subject his work to the rigorous inspection that is performed by most liability-conscious manufacturers, oxy-acetylene welding provides the safest and cheapest way to fabricate a strong assembly of 4130. Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: N321TX@wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 5:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding Kit Fox and Avid used MIG welders on their respective 4130 fuselages. My Avid was wrecked by a commercial pilot in 1993 (stalled out at appx. 200 feet after takeoff) and the airplane was demolished. The pilot was not injured, but chromoly tubing (4130) was broken in a number of places. However, not a single MIG weld joint came apart. ...snip... ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:55 PM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Don Morris Hi Welding = strong Brazing = not so strong. Don't even think about brazing structural parts, unless it is specifically called for. Brazing involves a bronze filler rod, and temperatures high enough to melt the brass and stick it to the metal in a process known as "adhesion." Welding actually melts the metal of the two pieces (and often a filler rod of the same material) and intermixes them, making the two pieces effectively one piece in a process known as "fusion." Brazing can easily be spotted by the gold colored metal around the joint. Also, you can always braze a joint to touch it up, but you can never weld the joint after you have brazed it. The gentleman who gave me my fuselage (good friends are wonderful) welded several of the joints and then brazed them. Then he found his mistake, and gave me the fuselage! He also said "don't do what I did." Stick with fusion welds. -Don HOEVELMANN wrote: > I know very little about welding but I get the idea that gas is the > best way to go. I am going to purchase a oxy-acetylene welding and > cutting kit and wanted to know how long do the small tanks that come > with the kit last? Also what is the difference between brazing and > welding? Also what is the material you use to weld? I can use any > suggestions I can get. > Thanks, J.J. > Hoevelmann > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:47 PM PST US From: "djv@imagedv.com" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab attach idea --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "djv@imagedv.com" Did you use any Locktite on that? DJ -----Original message----- From: Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horizontal stab attach idea > Hello Rick-- this is how I attached my horizontal stabilizer. > > Mike C. > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:24 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list --- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible. --- MIME Errors --- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:18 PM PST US From: Jimmy Courtney Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hi-Definition Piet Pics THANKS!!!! This is what I've been looking for! Jim Stacy Clark wrote: Jim, Go to Peter's Pietenpol Page. It's by far the best I've found for large reference pics. http://www.saaa.com/SAAA/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm . I also use "Altavista" for image searches. Just type in the searchwords pietenpol, aircamper, etc. http://www.altavista.com . There's a nice pic of Michael Cuys Piet (large) out there too...(Mike, you know which one I'm talking about?). I also have a pretty good drawing of mine (attached is a small reduced image of it). If you want a hi-res (1024x768) bmp of it I can send that but don't want to take up the space here. I'd need your email for that. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Bethel Belle Reduced.jpg ---------------------------------