Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:50 AM - Welding torch (Franck)
2. 09:13 AM - accurate wood list (walt evans)
3. 10:34 AM - Re: Fw: New bill introduced? (Carl D. Vought)
4. 10:40 AM - Pietenpol on Ebay (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
5. 10:52 AM - Re: Pietenpol on Ebay (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
6. 12:01 PM - Re: accurate wood list (Stacy Clark)
7. 03:57 PM - Re: accurate wood list (Rick Holland)
8. 04:28 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (Rick Holland)
9. 04:40 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (hjarrett)
10. 06:43 PM - Top & Bottom Struts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 07:02 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 07:35 PM - Re: Top & Bottom Struts (Stacy Clark)
13. 07:45 PM - Re: accurate wood list (Stacy Clark)
14. 07:59 PM - Flying adventure (Ted Brousseau)
15. 08:33 PM - Re: Top & Bottom Struts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
16. 08:47 PM - Re: Welding torch (Mike Luther)
17. 11:24 PM - Re: Top & Bottom Struts (Stacy Clark)
Message 1
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Franck <franck@geneseo.net>
I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For those
of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your
re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size welding
tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about a
evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck
Message 2
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Subject: | accurate wood list |
I had offered a copy of my wood list from AS&S, from 6 years ago, to the group
and a few took me up on it.
Just a thought,,,,,,,Since my order was correct (long fuselage, three piece wing)
Maybe AS&S tried to reinvent the wheel and messed up the list along the way.
What if someone who is thinking of ordering a spruce "kit", request a free Quote,
then compare it line for line with my list.
I remember that when I got my order, nothing was marked,cause there is no way they
CAN mark it. Took me awhile to sort it all out, and find out what went where..
Might be a case where the wrong longer pieces were cut up with waste, Then
later on , all of a sudden you run out of the right pieces.
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Fw: New bill introduced? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
'Figures
do not archive
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:24:17 -0600, "Michael McCarty" <mmccarty@zianet.com>
wrote :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael McCarty"
<mmccarty@zianet.com>
>
> Rep. Weiner is a relatively young democrat from New York City who is
trying to
> make a name for himself. I remember him from a few years back when he
> cheered the grounding of the Concorde jets. He felt that New Yorkers
should
> have been glad to get rid of those unsafe, noisy monstrosities.
>
> This is a newly introduced bill, less than a week old, with no co-
sponsors and
> hasn't been talked at the Aviation Subcomittee yet. AOPA and EAA and
others
> are all over this. I wouldn't worry too much yet.
>
> -Mac
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:32 PM
> Subject: **SPAM: Pietenpol-List: Fw: New bill introduced?
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly"
<bconoly@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Have ya'll seen this? I don't know who sent it to me but it looks
> > ridiculous.
> >>
> >> The Experimental Aircraft Association is urging its members and all
> > aviation
> >> enthusiasts
> >> to contact their Congressional representatives and strongly oppose a
newly
> >> introduced
> >> bill by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.)
> >>
> >> This bill (H.R. 5035) would require the Department of Homeland
Security to
> >> create a
> >> method of screening all passengers and property on each flight of all
> > passenger
> >> aircraft in the U.S., including general aviation aircraft of all types.
> > It
> >> would also prohibit
> >> non-airline aircraft from flying within 1,500 feet of any structure or
> > building,
> >> and prohibit
> >> non-airline aircraft from flying over any U.S. city with a population
of 1
> >> million or more.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Pietenpol on Ebay |
I just listed N1195P on Ebay. This is a NO RESERVE auction and the bids start
at $25.00. (That's correct, 25 BUCKS IS THE STARTING PRICE.)
I can send a detailed picture CD via US PRIORITY MAIL or FEDERAL EXPRESS
OVERNIGHT for a fee. I am not able to send all my pictures on the Internet because
of a VERY slow dialup connection.
Please see my auction for details on how to order a CD, showing somewhere
around 80 pictures as well as copies of the original e-mails from the chap who
built and sold this airplane to me. The CD will only set you back a few dollars,
or if you want it by Federal Express, a few bucks more.
Thanks,
Sterling Brooks
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol on Ebay |
Forgot one thing... The item number on Ebay for N1195P is 2489638603.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
Walt,
I think what happened is somewhere along the line AS&S was given a list by a builder
and he/she called that list (meaning the person who supplied it) a "Modernized
Pietenpol." I suspect that it is actually the material list for a GN-1
Aircamper renamed. I do know that AS&S has a GN-1 spruce kit as well. My guess
would be the lists are identical if they were to compare them side by side.
I am now working directly with them to resolve the wood issue in my case.
Over the next few weeks/months as I build I can promise you that the community
will have a correct and complete spruce kit for the "Improved Pietenpol Air Camper
(1933)" and the "3-pc wing" from AS&S. If someone else could supply a "correct"
material list for the "1-pc wing" to them all would once again be well
with the world :-)
On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and Braces."
I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
I received the Piet wood kit from AS about 6 months ago (cost was $802 I
think). This was for the 3 piece wing and included everything but capstrip
and plywood. Wood was very good quality except I found a knot in one
longeron piece and they got me a new one in just 3 days (suprized the hell
out of me). I have attached a .gif of with contents of that wood kit.
Rick Holland
>
>Walt,
>
>I think what happened is somewhere along the line AS&S was given a list by
>a builder and he/she called that list (meaning the person who supplied it)
>a "Modernized Pietenpol." I suspect that it is actually the material list
>for a GN-1 Aircamper renamed. I do know that AS&S has a GN-1 spruce kit as
>well. My guess would be the lists are identical if they were to compare
>them side by side. I am now working directly with them to resolve the wood
>issue in my case. Over the next few weeks/months as I build I can promise
>you that the community will have a correct and complete spruce kit for the
>"Improved Pietenpol Air Camper (1933)" and the "3-pc wing" from AS&S. If
>someone else could supply a "correct" material list for the "1-pc wing" to
>them all would once again be well with the world :-)
>
>On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and
>Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks.
>
>Stacy
>
>There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
>that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com>
I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry)
concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from
both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to
this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people
have done it.
Thanks
Rick Holland
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
>"originality"
>place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
>through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending
>strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
>(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
>Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster
>than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just
>make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
>passes
>through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
>from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
>(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
>strength
>load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
>Hank J
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
You lost me there Rick. If you are attaching the front and rear bars with
only one tube NONE of the forces from pressing both sides of the aft bar at
once would be transmitted to the front bar. Same goes for pressing both
sides of the front bar at once. Only the differential pressure would pass
to the other bar.
Hank J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Holland"
<at7000ft@hotmail.com>
>
> I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry)
> concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
> rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
> discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from
> both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to
> this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people
> have done it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick Holland
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> >There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the
> >"originality"
> >place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes
> >through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or
bending
> >strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar
> >(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker).
> >Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be
faster
> >than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you.
Just
> >make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load
> >passes
> >through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar
> >from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear
> >(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot
> >strength
> >load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK.
> >Hank J
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Top & Bottom Struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/12/04 2:02:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes:
<< On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and
Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks. >>
Stacy,
I didn't see this post. Did I miss it ?
Chuck G.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: rudder bar pressures |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/12/04 6:29:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
at7000ft@hotmail.com writes:
<< I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry)
concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the
rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been
discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from
both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to
this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people
have done it.
Thanks >>
Rick,
Problems are quite a few in this set up. If one of the joints fail, you will
be applying a LOT of pressure to the rudder horn, leading to failure of
rudder control. Another reason is that you can't remove the controls in the
front, if you are flying solo, and need the space for baggage. There is no doubt
that Bernard Pietenpol considered this set up, and niched the idea. If toe
brakes are your thinking, well I have heel brakes, and they are more than
adequate, and easy enough to get used to. There are Many places that you can
personalize your homebuilt, but changing the original control set up, including
material, is NOT one of them. Build it to the plans, and it will work just fine.
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Top & Bottom Struts and Braces
From: Stacy Clark (stacy@unicom-alaska.com)
Date: Fri Sep 10 - 5:16 AM
Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the
top
and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts
and
braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders)
shows
them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct.
Stacy
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: accurate wood list |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Rick,
Thanks, I've forwarded your list to AS&S. If this didn't happen to me
(wrong kit), it would almost be funny. I have no doubt AS&S will do the
right thing here.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 14
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Subject: | Flying adventure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
I hope you don't mind my letting off a little "steam" after my little
adventure of the past two days. I am still revved up and need to tell it to
someone and you are the only ones who would understand.
I may not be getting much done on my Piet project, but I am trying to have
fun. I just helped ferry a Stearman (with a wooden stick) from Nashua NH to
Lakeland FL. We really battled self doubts last Wednesday and Thursday
morning before getting on a plane to fly north. We had the remnants of
Frances still affecting the NE and Ivan aiming at us on Sunday PM in
Florida. I looked like getting all the way from there to here might not be
possible. We finally said, let's go for it.
We landed in Boston Thursday evening and it wasn't raining - that isn't what
the weather people had said. We got up Friday morning and the sun was
out - that isn't what the weather people had said was supposed to happen.
We lifted of at 10 AM and headed west to fly over the Ole Rhinebeck Airdrome
and then on to Poukeepsie. From there we flew down the Hudson at 1000'. We
could see the city outline from 40 miles out. We dropped down to 500' in
the VFR corridor. We were the only aircraft in it. The Hudson river was
ours for the entire length of NY City. After circling the Statute of
Liberty we headed
WSW and threaded between Camp David and Washington ADIZ to Front Royal. We
then
headed south down the Shenandoah Valley, landing at dusk at Roanoke VA.
Woke up to sunshine and were airborne at 8 AM and headed south. Things went
fine until we got to Georgia and their typical summer VFR that is similar to
flying through milk. We kept a close lookout for towers and made it
through. Florida was typical scattered afternoon convection. Just fly
around (and behind) it and keep moving on. The weather gods were good. We
made over 100 kts ground speed most of the second day. I had flight planned
for 85 MPH with a flying time of 16 hours.
We set down at Lakeland at 5:30 PM after 7 gas stops and 14:45 flying time.
I didn't keep track of the fuel usage or cost. Don't want to know. I want
to savor this flight until I do my next one like it in my Piet. For a trip
we didn't think would happen because of adverse weather, it turned out to be
the most pleasant flying X/C we either have flown. The Stearman was being
donated
to Sun n Fun. When we pushed it into the hangar I saw Allen Wise's Piet
(see there is some Piet connection to this story) stashed in there for
protection from the hurricane. It is in fine shape.
And Ivan hasn't shown up yet either. Spent a beautiful afternoon shooting
landings in my Cessna 140A helping a fellow tail dragger pilot knock off a
little rust.
Thanks for giving me a chance to share this experience.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
Going to start building like crazy so that I can fly with Bert, Corky, John,
Randy, Don and any one else in a formation of "Southern Wooden Overcast" to
Brodhead next
year.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/12/04 9:35:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes:
<< Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage)
the
top
and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts
and
braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders)
shows
them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct. >>
Stacy,
I'm not sure what you are asking, but I think you are concerned that the
fuselage attach points for the cabane struts, are aft of perpendicular, from the
fuselage attach points for the lift struts. This is correct. It shows this
clearly at the top of the page, on Drawing No. 1
Chuck G.
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Welding torch |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike Luther <luther@gci.net>
Ron:
I used the special Tinmantech lens for Gas welding aluminum and it works
beautifully. Worth every penny ($100) for Aluminum, but not necessary for
4130 Chrome Molly.
Mike L.
Franck wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Franck <franck@geneseo.net>
>
> I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For those
> of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your
> re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size welding
> tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about a
> evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by
> http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Top & Bottom Struts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Chuck,
No, I'm speaking of the literal top and bottom fuselage struts and braces
(diagonals) connecting the two sides of the fuselage together. The top and
bottom "bridge trusses," if you will. In pics that I see the top & bottom
struts/braces meet at the points that the side's struts and braces meet,
making (if you were looking at it on the inside from front to back) squares
all the way down with the diagonals running on all sides between the
squares. On the plans however it appears the top and bottom struts and
braces have nothing to do with where the side's struts and braces glue to
the longerons. Clear as mud now? :-)
Stacy
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