Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 09/12/04


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:50 AM - Welding torch (Franck)
     2. 09:13 AM - accurate wood list (walt evans)
     3. 10:34 AM - Re: Fw: New bill introduced? (Carl D. Vought)
     4. 10:40 AM - Pietenpol on Ebay  (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
     5. 10:52 AM - Re: Pietenpol on Ebay  (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
     6. 12:01 PM - Re: accurate wood list (Stacy Clark)
     7. 03:57 PM - Re: accurate wood list (Rick Holland)
     8. 04:28 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (Rick Holland)
     9. 04:40 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (hjarrett)
    10. 06:43 PM - Top & Bottom Struts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    11. 07:02 PM - Re: rudder bar pressures (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    12. 07:35 PM - Re: Top & Bottom Struts (Stacy Clark)
    13. 07:45 PM - Re: accurate wood list (Stacy Clark)
    14. 07:59 PM - Flying adventure (Ted Brousseau)
    15. 08:33 PM - Re: Top & Bottom Struts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    16. 08:47 PM - Re: Welding torch (Mike Luther)
    17. 11:24 PM - Re: Top & Bottom Struts (Stacy Clark)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:50:32 AM PST US
    From: Franck <franck@geneseo.net>
    Subject: Welding torch
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Franck <franck@geneseo.net> I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For those of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size welding tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about a evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:13:02 AM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: accurate wood list
    I had offered a copy of my wood list from AS&S, from 6 years ago, to the group and a few took me up on it. Just a thought,,,,,,,Since my order was correct (long fuselage, three piece wing) Maybe AS&S tried to reinvent the wheel and messed up the list along the way. What if someone who is thinking of ordering a spruce "kit", request a free Quote, then compare it line for line with my list. I remember that when I got my order, nothing was marked,cause there is no way they CAN mark it. Took me awhile to sort it all out, and find out what went where.. Might be a case where the wrong longer pieces were cut up with waste, Then later on , all of a sudden you run out of the right pieces. walt evans NX140DL


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:34:53 AM PST US
    From: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
    Subject: Re: Fw: New bill introduced?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net> 'Figures do not archive On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:24:17 -0600, "Michael McCarty" <mmccarty@zianet.com> wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael McCarty" <mmccarty@zianet.com> > > Rep. Weiner is a relatively young democrat from New York City who is trying to > make a name for himself. I remember him from a few years back when he > cheered the grounding of the Concorde jets. He felt that New Yorkers should > have been glad to get rid of those unsafe, noisy monstrosities. > > This is a newly introduced bill, less than a week old, with no co- sponsors and > hasn't been talked at the Aviation Subcomittee yet. AOPA and EAA and others > are all over this. I wouldn't worry too much yet. > > -Mac > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:32 PM > Subject: **SPAM: Pietenpol-List: Fw: New bill introduced? > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> > > > > Have ya'll seen this? I don't know who sent it to me but it looks > > ridiculous. > >> > >> The Experimental Aircraft Association is urging its members and all > > aviation > >> enthusiasts > >> to contact their Congressional representatives and strongly oppose a newly > >> introduced > >> bill by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) > >> > >> This bill (H.R. 5035) would require the Department of Homeland Security to > >> create a > >> method of screening all passengers and property on each flight of all > > passenger > >> aircraft in the U.S., including general aviation aircraft of all types. > > It > >> would also prohibit > >> non-airline aircraft from flying within 1,500 feet of any structure or > > building, > >> and prohibit > >> non-airline aircraft from flying over any U.S. city with a population of 1 > >> million or more. > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:40:26 AM PST US
    From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
    Subject: Pietenpol on Ebay
    I just listed N1195P on Ebay. This is a NO RESERVE auction and the bids start at $25.00. (That's correct, 25 BUCKS IS THE STARTING PRICE.) I can send a detailed picture CD via US PRIORITY MAIL or FEDERAL EXPRESS OVERNIGHT for a fee. I am not able to send all my pictures on the Internet because of a VERY slow dialup connection. Please see my auction for details on how to order a CD, showing somewhere around 80 pictures as well as copies of the original e-mails from the chap who built and sold this airplane to me. The CD will only set you back a few dollars, or if you want it by Federal Express, a few bucks more. Thanks, Sterling Brooks


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:52:55 AM PST US
    From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol on Ebay
    Forgot one thing... The item number on Ebay for N1195P is 2489638603.


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:01:44 PM PST US
    From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
    Subject: Re: accurate wood list
    Walt, I think what happened is somewhere along the line AS&S was given a list by a builder and he/she called that list (meaning the person who supplied it) a "Modernized Pietenpol." I suspect that it is actually the material list for a GN-1 Aircamper renamed. I do know that AS&S has a GN-1 spruce kit as well. My guess would be the lists are identical if they were to compare them side by side. I am now working directly with them to resolve the wood issue in my case. Over the next few weeks/months as I build I can promise you that the community will have a correct and complete spruce kit for the "Improved Pietenpol Air Camper (1933)" and the "3-pc wing" from AS&S. If someone else could supply a "correct" material list for the "1-pc wing" to them all would once again be well with the world :-) On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:57:49 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: accurate wood list
    I received the Piet wood kit from AS about 6 months ago (cost was $802 I think). This was for the 3 piece wing and included everything but capstrip and plywood. Wood was very good quality except I found a knot in one longeron piece and they got me a new one in just 3 days (suprized the hell out of me). I have attached a .gif of with contents of that wood kit. Rick Holland > >Walt, > >I think what happened is somewhere along the line AS&S was given a list by >a builder and he/she called that list (meaning the person who supplied it) >a "Modernized Pietenpol." I suspect that it is actually the material list >for a GN-1 Aircamper renamed. I do know that AS&S has a GN-1 spruce kit as >well. My guess would be the lists are identical if they were to compare >them side by side. I am now working directly with them to resolve the wood >issue in my case. Over the next few weeks/months as I build I can promise >you that the community will have a correct and complete spruce kit for the >"Improved Pietenpol Air Camper (1933)" and the "3-pc wing" from AS&S. If >someone else could supply a "correct" material list for the "1-pc wing" to >them all would once again be well with the world :-) > >On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and >Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks. > >Stacy > >There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and >that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:28:44 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: rudder bar pressures
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com> I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry) concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people have done it. Thanks Rick Holland >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the >"originality" >place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes >through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending >strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar >(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker). >Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster >than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just >make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load >passes >through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar >from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear >(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot >strength >load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK. >Hank J


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:40:42 PM PST US
    From: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
    Subject: Re: rudder bar pressures
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net> You lost me there Rick. If you are attaching the front and rear bars with only one tube NONE of the forces from pressing both sides of the aft bar at once would be transmitted to the front bar. Same goes for pressing both sides of the front bar at once. Only the differential pressure would pass to the other bar. Hank J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder bar pressures > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@hotmail.com> > > I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry) > concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the > rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been > discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from > both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to > this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people > have done it. > > Thanks > > Rick Holland > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >There is nothing wrong (engineering wise, I'm not going to the > >"originality" > >place again) with a wood rudder bar. I find the feel better than tubes > >through soft sole shoes. The max force is limited by the shear or bending > >strength (which ever is lower) of the pivot pin that attaches the bar > >(unless the hard point the pivot goes through in the fuselage is weaker). > >Remember, when you are being chased by a lion, you don't need to be faster > >than the lion. You only need to be faster than the guy next to you. Just > >make sure the bar is stronger than the weakest part that the bar load > >passes > >through. Once you know the strength of the pivot pin, just hang the bar > >from a piece of rod stock or a bolt of the same material in double shear > >(only half the load is in the pin that way) and hang half the pivot > >strength > >load from each end of the bar. If it doesn't fail, it's OK. > >Hank J > > _________________________________________________________________ > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:43:28 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Top & Bottom Struts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/04 2:02:16 PM Central Daylight Time, stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes: << On another note to ALL: Please look at my post "Top & Bottom Struts and Braces." I really need an answer to that one guys...Thanks. >> Stacy, I didn't see this post. Did I miss it ? Chuck G.


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:02:24 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: rudder bar pressures
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/04 6:29:14 PM Central Daylight Time, at7000ft@hotmail.com writes: << I have a question that deviates slightly from the main topic (sorry) concerning moving the rudder bar to the front cockpit and connecting the rear petals to the front rudder bar using solid tubing as has been discussed on this group. This way the front bar takes up the force from both rear petals being pressed. Question is what are the negatives to this arrangement? Must be some problem with it since it seems few people have done it. Thanks >> Rick, Problems are quite a few in this set up. If one of the joints fail, you will be applying a LOT of pressure to the rudder horn, leading to failure of rudder control. Another reason is that you can't remove the controls in the front, if you are flying solo, and need the space for baggage. There is no doubt that Bernard Pietenpol considered this set up, and niched the idea. If toe brakes are your thinking, well I have heel brakes, and they are more than adequate, and easy enough to get used to. There are Many places that you can personalize your homebuilt, but changing the original control set up, including material, is NOT one of them. Build it to the plans, and it will work just fine. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:35:11 PM PST US
    From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
    Subject: Re: Top & Bottom Struts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> Subject: Top & Bottom Struts and Braces From: Stacy Clark (stacy@unicom-alaska.com) Date: Fri Sep 10 - 5:16 AM Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the top and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts and braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders) shows them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct. Stacy


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:45:04 PM PST US
    From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
    Subject: Re: accurate wood list
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> Rick, Thanks, I've forwarded your list to AS&S. If this didn't happen to me (wrong kit), it would almost be funny. I have no doubt AS&S will do the right thing here. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:59:05 PM PST US
    From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
    Subject: Flying adventure
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net> I hope you don't mind my letting off a little "steam" after my little adventure of the past two days. I am still revved up and need to tell it to someone and you are the only ones who would understand. I may not be getting much done on my Piet project, but I am trying to have fun. I just helped ferry a Stearman (with a wooden stick) from Nashua NH to Lakeland FL. We really battled self doubts last Wednesday and Thursday morning before getting on a plane to fly north. We had the remnants of Frances still affecting the NE and Ivan aiming at us on Sunday PM in Florida. I looked like getting all the way from there to here might not be possible. We finally said, let's go for it. We landed in Boston Thursday evening and it wasn't raining - that isn't what the weather people had said. We got up Friday morning and the sun was out - that isn't what the weather people had said was supposed to happen. We lifted of at 10 AM and headed west to fly over the Ole Rhinebeck Airdrome and then on to Poukeepsie. From there we flew down the Hudson at 1000'. We could see the city outline from 40 miles out. We dropped down to 500' in the VFR corridor. We were the only aircraft in it. The Hudson river was ours for the entire length of NY City. After circling the Statute of Liberty we headed WSW and threaded between Camp David and Washington ADIZ to Front Royal. We then headed south down the Shenandoah Valley, landing at dusk at Roanoke VA. Woke up to sunshine and were airborne at 8 AM and headed south. Things went fine until we got to Georgia and their typical summer VFR that is similar to flying through milk. We kept a close lookout for towers and made it through. Florida was typical scattered afternoon convection. Just fly around (and behind) it and keep moving on. The weather gods were good. We made over 100 kts ground speed most of the second day. I had flight planned for 85 MPH with a flying time of 16 hours. We set down at Lakeland at 5:30 PM after 7 gas stops and 14:45 flying time. I didn't keep track of the fuel usage or cost. Don't want to know. I want to savor this flight until I do my next one like it in my Piet. For a trip we didn't think would happen because of adverse weather, it turned out to be the most pleasant flying X/C we either have flown. The Stearman was being donated to Sun n Fun. When we pushed it into the hangar I saw Allen Wise's Piet (see there is some Piet connection to this story) stashed in there for protection from the hurricane. It is in fine shape. And Ivan hasn't shown up yet either. Spent a beautiful afternoon shooting landings in my Cessna 140A helping a fellow tail dragger pilot knock off a little rust. Thanks for giving me a chance to share this experience. Ted Brousseau Naples, FL Going to start building like crazy so that I can fly with Bert, Corky, John, Randy, Don and any one else in a formation of "Southern Wooden Overcast" to Brodhead next year.


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:33:57 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Top & Bottom Struts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/04 9:35:47 PM Central Daylight Time, stacy@unicom-alaska.com writes: << Am I missing something here? Looking at the plans (1933 short fuselage) the top and bottom struts and braces don't line up with the fuselage sides struts and braces. However, every single picture I look at (from various builders) shows them lining up (i.e.: a box pattern). My fuselage sides "are" correct. >> Stacy, I'm not sure what you are asking, but I think you are concerned that the fuselage attach points for the cabane struts, are aft of perpendicular, from the fuselage attach points for the lift struts. This is correct. It shows this clearly at the top of the page, on Drawing No. 1 Chuck G.


    Message 16


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    Time: 08:47:53 PM PST US
    From: Mike Luther <luther@gci.net>
    Subject: Re: Welding torch
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike Luther <luther@gci.net> Ron: I used the special Tinmantech lens for Gas welding aluminum and it works beautifully. Worth every penny ($100) for Aluminum, but not necessary for 4130 Chrome Molly. Mike L. Franck wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Franck <franck@geneseo.net> > > I'm contemplating the purchase of the Meco Midget welding torch. For those > of you who have actual experience using this product, what are your > re-actions and recommendations concerning this product? What size welding > tips and what other accessories should the end user consider? How about a > evaluation of the special welding lenses offered by > http://www.tinmantech.com/html/tm2000.html? Thanks, Ron Franck > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:24:37 PM PST US
    From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
    Subject: Re: Top & Bottom Struts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com> Chuck, No, I'm speaking of the literal top and bottom fuselage struts and braces (diagonals) connecting the two sides of the fuselage together. The top and bottom "bridge trusses," if you will. In pics that I see the top & bottom struts/braces meet at the points that the side's struts and braces meet, making (if you were looking at it on the inside from front to back) squares all the way down with the diagonals running on all sides between the squares. On the plans however it appears the top and bottom struts and braces have nothing to do with where the side's struts and braces glue to the longerons. Clear as mud now? :-) Stacy




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