---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/16/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - Re: "Last Flight Out" on TV last night (N321TX@wmconnect.com) 2. 07:55 AM - Handheld Antennae (Edwin Johnson) 3. 09:41 AM - wing tank option? (Bill Church) 4. 12:18 PM - Andy Griffith, etc....... (Michael D Cuy) 5. 12:22 PM - Re: pics posted - a few (Michael D Cuy) 6. 04:29 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Borodent@aol.com) 7. 04:59 PM - Re: wing tank option? (DJ Vegh) 8. 06:18 PM - Re: Handheld Antennae (Rcaprd@aol.com) 9. 06:25 PM - Handheld / GPS (Rcaprd@aol.com) 10. 06:42 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Don Morris) 11. 06:43 PM - Re: Fw: HR 5035 (Michael McCarty) 12. 07:14 PM - Re: wing tank option? (DJ Vegh) 13. 07:15 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Kip and Beth Gardner) 14. 07:27 PM - Handheld Antennae (Ted Brousseau) 15. 08:32 PM - Re: Handheld Antennae (Jack Phillips) 16. 10:40 PM - Re: Handheld Antennae (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:39 AM PST US From: N321TX@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Last Flight Out" on TV last night In a message dated 9/15/2004 11:03:28 PM Central Standard Time, bconoly@earthlink.net writes: > I think of the Red Skeltons, George Burnses, and Milton Berles. I need to add my favorite, Jack Benny. And for those of us who were kids growing up in the 1950s, weren't we a lucky bunch? Red Skelton kept me, my mom and dad and sister glued to the tube as a family unit. I think this is one of the things that is so appealing about the Air Camper, it's like a time machine that takes me back to a time when people had more dignity, things were slower (and lower) and when folks didn't even bother locking their doors, and when funny men kept their acts clean and their language polite. S.B. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:17 AM PST US From: Edwin Johnson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Edwin Johnson Hello Larry, > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > Next week, when I launch N444MH, I will have my Vertex > VXA-700 in my shirtpocket until I can get a mount > I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is > attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote > antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we Even though you are in the air and line-of-sight required for these frequencies is somewhat easy, performance and efficiency of _any_ 'rubber duck' antenna on a handheld is dismal to say the least. Most of the rod antennas for planes (as opposed to the blade antennas used on faster aircraft) are simple 1/4 wave. The only thing you must absolutely make sure of to have such improvement is to build a 'ground plane' on which to mount the antenna if mounting on a non-metal area. (Not too many metal areas on a Piet.) This can be simple sheet aluminum. If you fail to do this, the efficiency will be lost and the mismatch isn't good for the transmitter. One method would be to put the sheet/ground plane on the bottom of the fuselage and mount the antenna downwards. Since most rod antennas have a bend there is enough clearance with the ground. On my Maule a metal sheet is inside the airplane so that the fabric covers the plate with the antenna mounted on the outside. On Corky's plane he built the ground plane inside the fuselage behind the rear seat and mounted the antenna upside down - but watch the cables there. On top of the wing or center section would be good providing a ground plane can be located there. At any rate the external antenna will make the handheld very usable, provided you can hear it over the 'Ford' and there isn't too much noise from the ignition. ...Edwin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj@shreve.net ~ ~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~ ~ ~ ~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~ ~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~ ~ for there you have been, there you long ~ ~ to return." -- da Vinci ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:02 AM PST US From: Bill Church Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank. Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic attached). I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might affect the flight of the plane. Any ideas? A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, which could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides, and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a change. It's just a thought. Bill <> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:13 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... ink.net> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Great story, Bert about you meeting the kind and gentle Red Skelton. A while back I was waiting for the 10 pm news to come on and I caught a re-run of the old Andy Griffith show and it just made me realize how wonderful the writers were during those eras of TV. The show was FUNNY, it was simple, it was down to earth, it taught VALUES, (Opey found out how another kid would cry to get his way with his father so Opey tried this until Paw found out the 'friend' was a bad influence on Opey) and it was CLEAN. So much better than the stuff they call sit coms today where people supposedly laugh at kids bossing their parents around. My Dad would whoop my butt at the least sign of disrespect and I'm glad he did. I didn't even think of calling 911 on my parents like some kids do today. Boy, I'm getting way off, and Please do not archive. Mike PS-- there are a zillion shows that fall into that same category......I love Lucy, The Honeymooners, Sky King ! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:01 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pics posted - a few --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Looks really good Terry ! Mike C. do not archive PS-- I love the smell of the varnish. Makes your garage or shop smell like you are putting together some fine furniture ! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:02 PM PST US From: Borodent@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eng@canadianrogers.com writes: << > >> Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings Henry Williams ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:43 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" the drag-antidrag wires would make it difficult. The tanks would have to be done like a Champ with tubes welded into them to allow the wires to pass-through. I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but enough to extend the range at least another hour or so. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > eng@canadianrogers.com writes: > > << > > >> > Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next > outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings > Henry Williams > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:32 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/15/04 9:13:25 AM Central Daylight Time, lnelson208@yahoo.com writes: << I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we shall see.) Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this? >> Larry, I have an Icom A-5, and use a kacky cloth helmet with the cutouts for the headset. I built a mount out of sheet metal, and located this small radio on the right side of the cockpit, on top of the longeron, so the antenna is almost straight up, but out in the slipstream. There is not many options on where to put this thing. I think the main thing about a rubber ducky antenna, is to keep it pointed straight up. Mine is pointed a little bit off to the right, but it's reception and transmission is pretty good, however the ducky antenna flops all over the place out there in the slipstream, so I tied a string to the from right rear cabane strut back to the antenna to stabilize it. I'm planning on installing a remote antenna, with a ground plane like what Edwin described...I'm just not sure where to locate it yet. Ambient noise of the engine and wind is the biggest problem I have with using the radio, and I'm kickin' around the idea of a ANR headset. Then comes the intercom. In flight I'm using hand signals, and a tap with my feet on the passengers hip, to communicate....just can't yell loud enough !! You've got some milestone flights coming up...some very exiting times !! Keep us informed. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:53 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Handheld / GPS --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com While we're on the subject of radios, I do have a problem with my GPS interfering with the headset. Whenever the GPS is turned on, it causes noise over my headset, but no problem when recieving, or transmitting. I've tried several different locations, but it's always there when the GPS is turned on...very annoying. I can hold my hand on top of the GPS, and most of the noise goes away. This lead me to try using alluminum foil over and around the GPS, but it didn't reduce the noise at all. Any ideas ? Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:53 PM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? <001e01c49c49$7bbb61c0$0100a8c0@Desktop> Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each. -Don DJ Vegh wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > >the drag-antidrag wires would make it difficult. The tanks would have to be >done like a Champ with tubes welded into them to allow the wires to >pass-through. > >I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the >leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but >enough to extend the range at least another hour or so. > >DJ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:28 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > > > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com >> >>In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>eng@canadianrogers.com writes: >> >><< > >> >> >>Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next >>outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings >>Henry Williams >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:55 PM PST US From: "Michael McCarty" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael McCarty" The only way this bill was going to make it to the floor this year is if it was tacked on to a larger aviation security bill. Congressman Weiner spoke to the aviation subcommittee Wedenesday and said that he had a long conversation with another subcommittee member, Congressman Boswell of Iowa who is a pilot and AOPA member, and that Rep Boswell had enlightened him to what the term "General Aviation" entails on a national basis. It seems Rep Weiner was concerned about the tourist helicopters in the NYC area. He was quite concerned about the fact that they can take off and land as they please without talking to FAA and that they take unscreened passengers around the area on a daily basis. That is what prompted him to present the bill. This bill as written was set aside by the aviation subcommittee, with Congressman Weiner's concerns duly noted. It really makes you wonder what kind of credentials are needed to serve on the aviation subcommittee. This guy didn't have a clue to the far-reaching impact of the bill he had proposed. You would think he would have at least done his homework first... -Mike McCarty ----- Original Message ----- From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035 But if just ONE important House member does sign on, this bill could cause a lot of heart burn for GA. Cy Galley Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Bowen To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035 This posting re this proposed bill has already made the rounds of several other user group sites. Couple comments I saw, 1) Mr. Wiener is a relatively young unimportant House member from NY trying to keep his job by hyping his bill as protecting his NY constituency, fur-git-a-bout-it, it's just hot air politics as usual, in a season of lots of hot air, 2) It doesn't have a chance of getting out of subcomittee, let alone, make it's way thru the entire Congress on to the Pres for signing. Gordon Bowen N1033B ----- Original Message ----- From: N321TX@wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: HR 5035 OK, so if I have an Air Camper in my backyard (I live on a farm and have my own runway and a hanger out back) and if this bill passes, I'm supposed to call the Feds, ask them to drive 52 miles out here to my rural location in Hicksville, TX and look at my plane and paperwork, EACH TIME before I can take off to look for a few head of cattle on Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch? I guess I'll call the Feds in late October (Halloween) and dress up as migratory sheep herder from Smellbadistan, just to get the Feds fired up when they arrive at the gate to my ranchito. When the TSA guys get to my place, I'll tell them this is how I dress up when I herd my farm animals on my ranch from a two seater wooden Air Camper. Hmm, now if I understand it, the sponsor of this bill doesn't want me flying my Cherokee 140 over a city of more than a million people (NYC) but its OK to fly over El Paso, >less than 1 mil? Is that to say the sponsor of the bill thinks that people in smaller communities are less significant than people in Chicago, or Phoenix or Houston? This really stinks. I think this Congressman needs to go to Smellbadistan so he can duke it out with the real bad guys, not plane people like experimenters and GA. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:32 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? the reason I dropped the idea was I could not think of a graceful way to have a filler cap installed. I didn't like the idea of having caps coming out of the top of the leading edge. I have a 14.5 gallon fuse tank which should give me 2.7 hours or so and I plan on making a 12"x12"x16" aluminum fuel cell that I will mount to the front seat as an aux tank if I want to do some cross country.... extending my range another 1.5 hours. My main fuse tank has an aux inlet that a line would be plumbed to via a fuel pump to get fuel from the seat mounted aux tank to the main tank. That'll all come later... first I need to get this thing flying! DJ Vegh www.imagedv.com/aircamper ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Morris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each. -Don DJ Vegh wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" the drag-antidrag wires would make it difficult. The tanks would have to be done like a Champ with tubes welded into them to allow the wires to pass-through. I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but enough to extend the range at least another hour or so. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Borodent@aol.com In a message dated 9/16/04 12:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eng@canadianrogers.com writes: << > >> Has anyone built the center wing tank, and then 2 small tanks in the next outboard spaces ( Left and Right ) on the wings Henry Williams ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:13 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner At 12:59 PM -0400 9/16/04, Bill Church wrote: >Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other >things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank. >Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the >wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be >increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose >tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really >would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing >and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing >tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic attached). >I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would >look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might affect >the flight of the plane. Any ideas? >A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, which >could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides, >and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present >more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the >installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your >expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a change. >It's just a thought. > >Bill Bill, I'm not exactly sure how he did it, but William Wynne glassed in the entire center section on his now-defunct Corvair-powered Pietenpol and had about a 20 gallon capacity. You might get details from him at: WilliamTCA@aol.com BTW, it's way past time to mention it, but the Corvair College that we sponsored up here in NE Ohio back in June was a huge sucess - we had over 50 participants, and many people went home with closed cases. Two groups went home with assembled engines, and the rest of us just had a damn good time. We had people from as far away as Minnesota and Connecticut. William said it was the best weather of any Corvair College event so far. Everyone was envious of our new Chapter clubhouse and workshop - built for a total investment of $3000. I'll be closing my engine case later this Fall, but having the CC at our chapter sure made the process a lot less mysterious. EAA Chapter 82 plans on sponsoring another Corvair College event next summer, and William has agreed to do it barring any unforsen catastrophic events, so all of you Corvair guys who did not make it this year, plan on coming next year. Cheers, Kip Gardner, President EAA 82 -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:31 PM PST US From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Larry, I just went through this drill this past summer while testing two new planes without external antennas. I could get the tower most of the time from 5-6 miles out with just the rubber antenna. Twice I needed the green light from the tower because they couldn't hear me. I have never had a problem with the Piet I routinely fly. It has an external antenna mounted which we connect to the handheld. If you are just using it in the pattern at a non-towered field it works fine because you are within a mile or so to the other planes. I am deciding at this time how I will mount an external antenna on my new Piet. I am looking at internal antennas also. They all improve on what the little rubber antenna does. Ted Brousseau Time: 07:12:46 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Next week, when I launch N444MH, I will have my Vertex VXA-700 in my shirtpocket until I can get a mount figured out. I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we shall see.) Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this? Maybe I could build in some phones into my Viking helmet. ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:43 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" Check out www.flightsuits.com I bought a leather helmet from them with headphones built in. Pricey, but nice. Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC NX899JP is at the airport, waiting for the FAA to come and inspect it -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/15/04 9:13:25 AM Central Daylight Time, lnelson208@yahoo.com writes: << I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we shall see.) Also, what is the consensus of headphones and cloth helmet solution? I ordered one with the headphone holes, but would rather have a "built in" cloth or leather helmet. Anyone seen anything like this? >> Larry, I have an Icom A-5, and use a kacky cloth helmet with the cutouts for the headset. I built a mount out of sheet metal, and located this small radio on the right side of the cockpit, on top of the longeron, so the antenna is almost straight up, but out in the slipstream. There is not many options on where to put this thing. I think the main thing about a rubber ducky antenna, is to keep it pointed straight up. Mine is pointed a little bit off to the right, but it's reception and transmission is pretty good, however the ducky antenna flops all over the place out there in the slipstream, so I tied a string to the from right rear cabane strut back to the antenna to stabilize it. I'm planning on installing a remote antenna, with a ground plane like what Edwin described...I'm just not sure where to locate it yet. Ambient noise of the engine and wind is the biggest problem I have with using the radio, and I'm kickin' around the idea of a ANR headset. Then comes the intercom. In flight I'm using hand signals, and a tap with my feet on the passengers hip, to communicate....just can't yell loud enough !! You've got some milestone flights coming up...some very exiting times !! Keep us informed. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:46 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handheld Antennae --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson There's a lot of stuff in the archives. Go to the search page and put antenna in the box. A couple of years ago at Arlington there was some info on a company making up fitted earphones based on hearing aid technology. They would make a mold of the inside of your ears and go from there. No big earphones hanging off your head. I filed that info in a safe place- safe from me it appears. Oh, well. > << I wonder how these work with just the antenna that is > attached to the unit? How many of you have a remote > antenna? (That Model A might drown it out anyway, we > shall see.) Clif