Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:51 AM - Re: wing tank option? (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
2. 07:25 AM - Re: wing tank option? (Greg Bacon)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: wing tank option? (DJ Vegh)
4. 08:11 AM - Under Seat Storage (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: wing tank option? ()
6. 08:39 AM - Re: wing tank option? (Textor, Jack)
7. 08:49 AM - Looking for Red Betsy (Barry Davis)
8. 11:27 AM - Cont Engine mount bolts (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
9. 11:44 AM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (Stacy Clark)
10. 12:20 PM - Re: Looking for Red Betsy (walt evans)
11. 01:18 PM - Model A engines (TBYH@aol.com)
12. 02:05 PM - Re: Model A engines (cgalley)
13. 02:05 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Don Morris)
14. 02:14 PM - Re: wing tank option? (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
15. 02:22 PM - Re: Model A engines (Carl D. Vought)
16. 02:41 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
17. 02:41 PM - Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan (Aircraft Spruce)
18. 02:56 PM - Re: Model A engines (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
19. 04:03 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (hjarrett)
20. 05:40 PM - Re: wing tank option? (John Ford)
21. 05:43 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (John Ford)
22. 05:46 PM - Re: wing tank option? ()
23. 07:06 PM - Re: Cont Engine mount bolts (Rcaprd@aol.com)
24. 07:49 PM - Re: First Flight Procedure (Larry Nelson)
25. 08:08 PM - Re: First Flight Procedure (cgalley)
26. 08:33 PM - Re: First Flight Procedure (DJ Vegh)
27. 10:05 PM - Re: Looking for Red Betsy (Stacy Clark)
28. 10:09 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (Stacy Clark)
29. 10:20 PM - Re: wing tank option? (jimboyer@direcway.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
DJ wrote
"I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading
edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but enough to
extend the range at least another hour or so."
Don wrote
"Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."
----------------------------
This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be dealt
with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill the tube
from the wing tip end.
- The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
- Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions.
- Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@direcway.com>
Bill,
I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I
believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last
name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a
larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build
tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done.
Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church?
Greg Bacon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other
> things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank.
> Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the
> wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be
> increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose
> tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really
> would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing
> and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing
> tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic
attached).
> I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would
> look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might
affect
> the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks,
which
> could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides,
> and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present
> more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the
> installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your
> expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a
change.
> It's just a thought.
>
> Bill
>
>
> <<gypsy moth wingtank.jpg>>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
all good points Terry.
As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would be
opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain into
the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straight
and level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be the
issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight when
the tanks were full.
sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be not
so good.
----- Original Message -----
From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>
> DJ wrote
> "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in
the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
enough to extend the range at least another hour or so."
>
> Don wrote
> "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."
> ----------------------------
> This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
> - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be
dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill
the tube from the wing tip end.
> - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
> - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended
obstructions.
> - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
>
> --
> Terry L. Bowden
> ph 254-715-4773
> fax 254-853-3805
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Under Seat Storage |
0.50 MIME_BASE64_LATIN RAW: Latin alphabet text using base64 encoding
1.01 MIME_BASE64_TEXT RAW: Message text disguised using base64 encoding
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
I exchanged some emails with Jim Markle yesterday at work after I saw a picture
of his pilot's seat with a hinged bottom. (They should have never given me internet
at work.) He got me thinking about using this space for cargo. I had
already been wanting to beef up the seat structure anyway because I thought the
original builder had made it too light. I thought about it all day yesterday
and even during my son's 7th grade "away" football game last nite. We got
home at 11pm. I had been dying to look over my seat structure all day. So I
went out to the shop to study how I might design something there. This led to
poster board mock up work. Before I knew it....the clock said 3am. I am excited
to report that I have come up with a neat little sheet metal compartment
design. There's actually more space down there than I expected. You could certainly
keep a quart or two of oil, some rags, fuel strainer, etc... down there.
And I accomplished a light weight beef up in the process. I am paying close
attention to protecting elev. and rudder cables. I plan to work on it some this
weekend. I'll try to post pictures soon.
I am on a roll...streak of 7 evenings in a row working on the Piet. One of them
a VERY late-nighter. I am draggin at work today... needing a nap big time.
:)
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 5
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d="scan'208"; a="314686982:sNHT16717616"
Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <lebrandt@charter.net>
Greg,
Bill is a fellow Chapter member but he is not on the internet so here is his info.
Bill Rewey
3339 Mound View Rd
Verona, WI 53593
Hope this helps. I deleted the email from Mr Church so can you pass this on to
him?
Thanks
Leroy Brandt
>
> From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@direcway.com>
> Date: 2004/09/17 Fri PM 02:24:38 GMT
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@direcway.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I
> believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last
> name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a
> larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build
> tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done.
>
> Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church?
>
> Greg Bacon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
> > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other
> > things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank.
> > Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the
> > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be
> > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose
> > tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really
> > would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing
> > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing
> > tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic
> attached).
> > I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would
> > look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might
> affect
> > the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> > A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks,
> which
> > could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides,
> > and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present
> > more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the
> > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your
> > expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a
> change.
> > It's just a thought.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > <<gypsy moth wingtank.jpg>>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Bill gave me my first Piet ride this year at Brodhead, very nice man!
His contact info is:
Bill Rewey
608-833-5839
3339 Mondview Road
Verona, WI 53593-9743
Jack Textor
Message 7
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d="scan'217,208"; a="312689183:sNHT17324364"
Subject: | Looking for Red Betsy |
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It
was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
Message 8
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Subject: | Cont Engine mount bolts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
Help..
What's the size (diameter and length) of the engine mount bolts used to mount an
A65 continental using the continental engine mount per plans? I had this somewhere
but can't find it when I need it.
I am planning to go shopping at the YARD store in Wichita next week. Chuck says
they have them there.
Thanks in advance.. :)
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Ahh, the simpler times. Remember when there used to be only four channels
(ABC, CBS, NBC, and NET [remember that one?])? If I had my way nowadays
there would be three TV channels: The Andy Griffith Channel, The Leave it to
Beaver Channel, and the Father Knows Best Channel. (Maybe Laurel & Hardy
and Our Gang on cable).
Speaking of kids calling 911 on their parents, I remember one time I spanked
my oldest daughter for something when she was about 8 or 9. She came back
with a school fed line "that's child abuse". So of course, I showed her the
difference (a few more whacks on the butt). In the first quarter of seventh
grade she went from A's to F's and was starting to hang around with the
wrong crowd (I could tell because I used to be "the wrong crowd")...so I
grounded her for the entire remainer of the school year. That also
telegraphed nicely to my two younger ones as well...they're still A's and
B's years later. She is now 18 years-old and is paying her own way through
college to become a nurse (dad's hoping doctor [but no pressure]). She's
consistantly had the highest grades in all her college classes over two
years (the hard ones by the way) and she's not a nerd. Now, if I could only
find a way to get rid of her boyfriend.
Stacy
Do not archive
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that
is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Looking for Red Betsy |
Go here for the website,,,
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
you can follow the show times. Seems that it started locally near Wis. and is
creeping around the country. Hopefully it will get everywhere.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It
was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
Message 11
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|
Spent some time cleaning on my e-Bay Model A engine today and started
disassembling it. Bought a valve spring compressor tool and quickly figured out
how
to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the
block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of
retainers on top of the spring?
A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has
complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? I
couldn't find any at our local library or even interlibrary loan -- lot's of
book available on the car with some info on engines, but nothing I know of
devoted strictly to rebuilding the engine...
The good news is I have not spotted any cracks in my engine -- yet! Came from
near Fargo N.D. Was mounted in a wooden frame complete with radiator,
starter, generator and tranny -- was being used as a power take-off or saw mill
or
something...BHP would be proud to see this engine recycled! By selling the
non-airplane parts I basically paid for the engine -- shipped the tranny to
Houston, TX. The fellow only paid $63 for it on e-Bay, but was willing to pay almost
$140 for shipping! The good news for me is that it's out of my garage! The
starter and generator went to Michigan; the chrome radiator shell to Tucson and
the radiator (just like new!) went to Stockton, CA. Love that e-Bay!
Anyway -- any tips on engine disassembly or a good book would be appreciated.
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Model A engines |
Cruddy stems. If you have the springs and retainer washers off you can clean the
stems. Can you push up each valve by turning the crank? The cam should push
them up. If you have the cam lifters out you can use a brass drift to drive the
valve outs. You will probably want to put in new guides, valves and spring
when you overhaul.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines
Spent some time cleaning on my e-Bay Model A engine today and started disassembling
it. Bought a valve spring compressor tool and quickly figured out how to
use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the
block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of retainers
on top of the spring?
A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has
complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? I
couldn't find any at our local library or even interlibrary loan -- lot's of
book available on the car with some info on engines, but nothing I know of devoted
strictly to rebuilding the engine...
The good news is I have not spotted any cracks in my engine -- yet! Came from
near Fargo N.D. Was mounted in a wooden frame complete with radiator, starter,
generator and tranny -- was being used as a power take-off or saw mill or something...BHP
would be proud to see this engine recycled! By selling the non-airplane
parts I basically paid for the engine -- shipped the tranny to Houston,
TX. The fellow only paid $63 for it on e-Bay, but was willing to pay almost
$140 for shipping! The good news for me is that it's out of my garage! The starter
and generator went to Michigan; the chrome radiator shell to Tucson and the
radiator (just like new!) went to Stockton, CA. Love that e-Bay!
Anyway -- any tips on engine disassembly or a good book would be appreciated.
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Message 13
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|
Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
<002c01c49cc6$cbbbd9c0$0100a8c0@Desktop>
I've been thinking - and that can get scary!
I was just putting the leading edge onto all those ribs this afternoon,
so if I were to do this, it would have to be right away. The 14 lbs
shouldn't be to difficult to support with a couple of plywood brackets,
and ample padding. By supporting the tubes at two points near each end
and allowing a bit of movement in the supports, this should allow for
wing flexure and thermal differences.
Now, for the use of the tank. I agree that a couple more fuel caps are
undesirous - got to find a better way. Also, I don't want to irrigate
the ground with fuel from the vents. However, I seem to recall that FAR
23 allows interconnected fuel tanks with interconnected airspaces. What
about attaching a tubes from the bottom of the main section tank to the
bottom of the D-cell tanks, and then attaching tubes from the outboard
top of the D-cell tanks to the inboard top of the D-cell tanks to the
top of the main fuel tanks. Keep the vent tubes fairly small, and put a
couple of slosh baffles in the tube tanks, then cover it all up and
forget about it. The only way to trap fuel in the tube tanks is to fly
for a long period of time with one wing low, and there is no place to
drain fuel out onto the ground except the main fuel vent.
Tell me what you tink, and why!
-Don
DJ Vegh wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
>all good points Terry.
>
>As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would be
>opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain into
>the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straight
>and level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be the
>issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight when
>the tanks were full.
>
>sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be not
>so good.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
>
>
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
>>
>>DJ wrote
>>"I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in
>>
>>
>the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but
>enough to extend the range at least another hour or so."
>
>
>>Don wrote
>>"Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."
>>----------------------------
>>This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
>>- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be
>>
>>
>dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill
>the tube from the wing tip end.
>
>
>>- The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
>>- Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended
>>
>>
>obstructions.
>
>
>>- Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
>>
>>--
>>Terry L. Bowden
>>ph 254-715-4773
>>fax 254-853-3805
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
How would you go about interconnecting the vented airspace? If not done properly,
fuel could become trapped inside the small diameter interconnect vent tubes
and could not allow air into the tank unless somehow burped. I am not trying
to be a pessimist. I think it could be done. Just stay safe.
Again... the concept is interesting...but is a challenge to design. There's a
lot to consider.
--
Terry L. Bowden
ph 254-715-4773
fax 254-853-3805
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Model A engines |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
I bought a 112-page book entitled "The Model A Engine", written by Wm.
Mcree and Paul Mcree. It's very informative and reasonably priced. I got
mine from MAC's or Snyder's Antique Auto Parts. It contains a lot of
elaboration on the differences between the various year models and also a
good bit of overhaul info.Carl Vought
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:18:17 EDT, TBYH@aol.com wrote :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TBYH@aol.com
>
>
> > to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out
of the
> block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set
of
> retainers on top of the spring?
>
> A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that
has
> complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A
engine?
>
> Fred B.
> La Crosse, WI
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... |
"Now, if I could only find a way to get rid of her boyfriend."
Stacy,
Years ago I worked for Continental Airlines. Every once in a while, (I like
to say, once in a blue moon) a large junk of blue ice would fall from the sky
at 33,000 feet. Those of us in the airline business always said this was sewage
from the holding tank of a passenger jet, leaking overboard.
If I were you, I'd go to Walmart, buy some Blue Ice (the stuff they have in
the Sporting Goods section that we freeze for coolers) and once it is frozen
good and hard, load it in your Pietenpol. Ask your daughter to send her
boyfriend hiking in the woods, then bomb the bozo with the Blue Ice. Surely, the
law
enforcement guys would surmise the chap met his death from frozen airline
sewage that plummeted down upon him.
Just a thought.
S.B.
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
www.byop.us
Message 17
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Subject: | Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan |
da2a@yahoogroups.com, Aircar@yahoogroups.com,
canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com, Corby_Starlet@yahoogroups.com,
navion_aircraft_mail@yahoogroups.com, piper-cub-builders@yahoogroups.com,
quicksilverultralightowners@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com,
subaruaircraft@yahoogroups.com, europa-list@matronics.com,
kitfox-list@matronics.com, kolb-list@matronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Aircraft Spruce <fun_plane@yahoo.com>
Builders,
Thanks for bringing the matter of Fuel Mizer vs.
NavMan fuel computers to our attention. We have
carried Fuel Mizer for a couple of years and had never
heard of NavMan. We asked the manufacturer of NavMan
about the difference in the units, and as you can see
from the following commentary there is definitely a
difference, only the Fuel Mizer is recommended for
Aviation use. Fuel Mizer has been thoroughly tested
in aviation applications and is certified for
CAO-95-45 aircraft in the Australia.
Best Regards,
Jim Irwin
President, Aircraft Spruce
----- Original Message -----
From: SlipStream Industries, Inc.
Subject: Questions Regarding Fuel Mizer
Dear Jim:
I am forwarding an email I received from Ole Jensen,
President of Boss Products, the manufacturer of the
Fuel Mizer under license from Navman. SlipStream is
Boss Product's North American distributor. In his
response to the questions posed yesterday, he
references certain modifications and approvals
received for use of this product in aviation. The
exact language found on the cover of the Installation
and Instruction manual is as follows:
This instrument has been modified to comply with
Australian Engineering order HEO-469 and certified for
CAO 95-25 type aircraft in Australia.
Please let me know if you have any questions, or
desire any further information.
Kindest regards,
Mike Puhl
SlipStream International
----- Original Message -----
From: Ole Jensen
Subject: Re: Mizer.
Dear Mike:
The question raised regarding the Navman fuel
flow meter and the Mizer is a common one that has been
around for many years and a lot of people have lost
money and endangered themselves by purchasing the
Navman for use in aviation. Nearly all the Navman
units purchased for this application have failed and
Navman refuses to replace them under warranty. Several
years ago we negotiated with Navman and paid a
licensing fee that enabled us to make the appropriate
modifications for use in aviation. In addition, the
Mizer has been registered with CASA (the equivalent to
your FAA) and certified by a qualified aeronautical
engineer. Boss Products paid to have the appropriate
modifications made for use in civil aviation, and
these modifications have been improved upon several
times since. As a result, the Mizer enjoys an
excellent reliability record and has been certified
according to CAO order no.HEO-469 as printed on the
cover of the installation manual.
Any one doubting the validity of our agreement
with Navman is free to contact the Vice President of
Navman in New Zealand, Mr. Mark Michell, and he will
verify these facts. Boss Products is the only company
in the world licensed to modify and distribute this
particular product. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous
marine dealers still offer the Navman for use in
unapproved applications despite the knowledge that the
manufacturer strictly prohibits this practice. Greed
and ignorance are usually the motivator. I can also
tell you that the price differences between the Navman
and Fuel Mizer are reasonably close, especially
considering the potential danger for misuse in a
non-approved aviation application. Further, I spoke
with Navman earlier today and was told that no one in
the U.S. is offering this unit for anywhere close to
US $99.00, and that the suggested retail price is US
$299.00, though they offer special MAP pricing from
time to time.
Hope this helps to clear up this issue. Please let me
know if I can be of further assistance in any way.
Regards,
Ole Jensen
President
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Model A engines |
There is a fellow in Stamford or Anson, Texas that does nothing but rebuild
Model A engines (full time) for people all across the USA and as far away as
Austrailia. He even pours his own babbit.
He was featured a few weeks ago on one of our local TV stations, KTXS-TV I
think.
For Southern folks wanting to put a Model A engine in their Pietenpol, but
not wanting to mess with the engine innerds... this guy might be a good source.
I figure if he has and continues to do work for people overseas, he must have
a good reputation.
If anyone is interested in finding out more about this guy, I'll be happy to
do some looking around and try to locate his shop.
An experienced A&P I know down here (Minot Piper of Abilene, TX) built and
flew his own Pietenpol using a Model A engine. I bet Minot knows the guy in
the news report.
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" <hjarrett@hroads.net>
Is her boyfriend interested in your plane? Would he like a ride? Do you
have metal to metal seat belts? Have you ever pulled negative "G" in a
Pietenpol?
These problems are easier to solve than you would think. ;-)
I liked a friend of mines solution. When her boyfriend came over he was
cleaning his shotgun in the living room. Didn't say a word to him. Didn't
need to.
All this in jest of course.
Hank (You know <1G FEELS like negative when you aren't used to it.) J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stacy Clark" <stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc.......
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark"
<stacy@unicom-alaska.com>
>
> Ahh, the simpler times. Remember when there used to be only four channels
> (ABC, CBS, NBC, and NET [remember that one?])? If I had my way nowadays
> there would be three TV channels: The Andy Griffith Channel, The Leave it
to
> Beaver Channel, and the Father Knows Best Channel. (Maybe Laurel & Hardy
> and Our Gang on cable).
>
> Speaking of kids calling 911 on their parents, I remember one time I
spanked
> my oldest daughter for something when she was about 8 or 9. She came back
> with a school fed line "that's child abuse". So of course, I showed her
the
> difference (a few more whacks on the butt). In the first quarter of
seventh
> grade she went from A's to F's and was starting to hang around with the
> wrong crowd (I could tell because I used to be "the wrong crowd")...so I
> grounded her for the entire remainer of the school year. That also
> telegraphed nicely to my two younger ones as well...they're still A's and
> B's years later. She is now 18 years-old and is paying her own way
through
> college to become a nurse (dad's hoping doctor [but no pressure]). She's
> consistantly had the highest grades in all her college classes over two
> years (the hard ones by the way) and she's not a nerd. Now, if I could
only
> find a way to get rid of her boyfriend.
>
> Stacy
>
> Do not archive
>
> There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and
that
> is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
>
>
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
Long tanks on the leading edge sounds like a stability problem in the
making, even with slosh baffles. Consider having 6 pounds per gallon
moving back and forth from the fuselage to the wingtip while you're
flaring, or perhaps making the base-to-final turn. Then consider both
wings doing it in consort. It sounds like stall-spin city to me. I'm
certainly all for having more useable fuel, but there are many good
reasons why certified aircraft use several larger tanks close to the
fuselage and don't allow the contents of tip tanks to move anywhere very
quickly.
John (who has enough trouble getting them back on the ground gracefully
without having to chase the C.G. all over the place - and I don't mean
Chuck Gantzer)
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> pietbuilder@donsplans.com Friday, September 17, 2004 4:04:00 PM
>>>
I've been thinking - and that can get scary!
I was just putting the leading edge onto all those ribs this afternoon,
so if I were to do this, it would have to be right away. The 14 lbs
shouldn't be to difficult to support with a couple of plywood brackets,
and ample padding. By supporting the tubes at two points near each end
and allowing a bit of movement in the supports, this should allow for
wing flexure and thermal differences.
Now, for the use of the tank. I agree that a couple more fuel caps are
undesirous - got to find a better way. Also, I don't want to irrigate
the ground with fuel from the vents. However, I seem to recall that FAR
23 allows interconnected fuel tanks with interconnected airspaces. What
about attaching a tubes from the bottom of the main section tank to the
bottom of the D-cell tanks, and then attaching tubes from the outboard
top of the D-cell tanks to the inboard top of the D-cell tanks to the
top of the main fuel tanks. Keep the vent tubes fairly small, and put a
couple of slosh baffles in the tube tanks, then cover it all up and
forget about it. The only way to trap fuel in the tube tanks is to fly
for a long period of time with one wing low, and there is no place to
drain fuel out onto the ground except the main fuel vent.
Tell me what you tink, and why!
-Don
DJ Vegh wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>all
good points Terry.As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing
tank valve would beopened when the main fuse tank was less than half....
fuel would drain intothe main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the
aircraft was in straightand level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT
there would still be theissue of the fuel coming out of the vents during
uncoordinated flight whenthe tanks were full.sounds like a good idea on
the surface, but more thinking shows it to be notso good.----- Original
Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>To:
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50
AMSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.comDJ wrote"I was once considering small
3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each
wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold butenough to extend the
range at least another hour or so." Don wrote"Fascinating idea. These
tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons
each."----------------------------This does sound interesting.... Some
items to consider...- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against
gravity. This could be dealt with by using flapper-type check
valves... but then you'd have to fillthe tube from the wing tip end. -
The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.- Leading edge is fairly
susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions. - Wing
bending flexure should be considered in the design.-- Terry L. Bowdenph
254-715-4773fax 254-853-3805
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... |
You could always offer to take him bear hunting in Katmai. Make sure
he's not wearing anything that might choke one of 'em.
John
*do not archive*
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> N321TX@wmconnect.com Friday, September 17, 2004 4:41:36 PM >>>
"Now, if I could only find a way to get rid of her boyfriend."
Stacy,
Years ago I worked for Continental Airlines. Every once in a while, (I
like to say, once in a blue moon) a large junk of blue ice would fall
from the sky at 33,000 feet. Those of us in the airline business always
said this was sewage from the holding tank of a passenger jet, leaking
overboard.
If I were you, I'd go to Walmart, buy some Blue Ice (the stuff they
have in the Sporting Goods section that we freeze for coolers) and once
it is frozen good and hard, load it in your Pietenpol. Ask your daughter
to send her boyfriend hiking in the woods, then bomb the bozo with the
Blue Ice. Surely, the law enforcement guys would surmise the chap met
his death from frozen airline sewage that plummeted down upon him.
Just a thought.
S.B.
Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch
5TA6, San Antonio Sectional
www.byop.us
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Greg Bacon,
Nice to see you on the list.
Care to tell us about your project?
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank
option?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg
Bacon <gbacon67@direcway.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year
with a 3 ft center section. I
> believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a
phonetic spelling on his last
> name). His wider center section adds 1 ft
of wing span and allows for a
> larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an
information pack with helpful build
> tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well
done.
>
> Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact
information to Mr. Church?
>
> Greg Bacon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Church"
<eng@canadianrogers.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)"
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
> > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I
have time to think about other
> > things, and one of the things I was
thinking about was the wing tank.
> > Specifically, I was wondering about ways
to increase the capacity of the
> > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems
a bit small, and if it could be
> > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns
about shifting CG with a nose
> > tank, as flight progresses (and the need
for elevator trim,etc). I really
> > would like to have some space to stow
junk, and don't want to use the wing
> > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought
I had was to incorporate a wing
> > tank similar to the style used on the old
deHavilland Moths (pic
> attached).
> > I would think the tank capacity could be
doubled (I know, I know it would
> > look different). What I have no idea
about is how such a change might
> affect
> > the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> > A second idea I had (two in one day, not
bad!) was to make two tanks,
> which
> > could be interchanged. A smaller tank
like the plans, for short joyrides,
> > and a larger "moth style" tank for
cross-country flights. This may present
> > more problems than it's worth. I don't
profess to know anything about the
> > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of
you out there could share your
> > expertise or opinion. please don't jump
all over me for suggesting a
> change.
> > It's just a thought.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > <<gypsy moth wingtank.jpg>>
> >
>
>
=============================
Forum -
through the Contributions
banner ads or any other
Matronics Forums.
>
=============================
http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
=============================
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
=============================
>
>
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Cont Engine mount bolts |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/17/04 1:27:49 PM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR@aol.com
writes:
<< What's the size (diameter and length) of the engine mount bolts used to
mount an A65 continental using the continental engine mount per plans? >>
Terry,
The plans call out 7/16" engine mount bolts. The Yard store had 7/16" bolts
with a 3 3/8" shank length, and a hole in the threaded end. They had about a
Zillion of them. Buy 'em by the pound.
Chuck G.
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
then it is "go" time.
Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
fairings. Connect controls.
Check oil
Check fuel quality and quantity
Check coolant
Check tire pressures
Check controls
Start engine and warm up, check guages
After warm up, do static power test
Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
Cross fingers and take off
Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
Return to pattern for first landing
Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
That is all I have come up with. It is different that
the checklist I use with my Bonanza <vbg>.
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub. If you don't have a tail
wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you are "grandfathered." But
if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you still need to get the
cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
>
> Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> then it is "go" time.
>
> Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> fairings. Connect controls.
> Check oil
> Check fuel quality and quantity
> Check coolant
> Check tire pressures
> Check controls
> Start engine and warm up, check guages
> After warm up, do static power test
> Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> Cross fingers and take off
> Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> Return to pattern for first landing
> Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
>
> That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> the checklist I use with my Bonanza <vbg>.
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
this brings up a question I've had. I have no J-3 time but I have about 40
hours in a SuperCub and about 5 hours in a T-Craft.
I feel very comfortable in both aircraft. I fly the Supercub on a bi-weekly
basis and will continue to do so until the day of my first flight in my
Aircamper.
Will I make the transition easily?? I certainly understand that a SuperCub
is not a Piet..... Or maybe I should get some time in a Champ?? there's a
Champ on the field that rents for $58/hr. I'd prefer not to 'cause I'm
checked out in the SuperCub and it's easier for me to just fly that.
Some opinions from qualified Aircamper pilots please :)
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub. If you don't have a
tail
> wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you are "grandfathered." But
> if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you still need to get the
> cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
>
> BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
>
> Cy Galley
> Safety Programs Editor
> Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson
<lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza <vbg>.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Looking for Red Betsy |
As someone else sent, you can go to www.redbetsy.com. My gut tells me based on the 2003 release date that the movie went from out of the "can" and right back into another "can". I checked on Amazon and eBay and nothing there. Too bad, I would have liked to have seen it. Usually I like what the critics hate.
Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is
to achieve it -- Stacy Clark
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It
was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... |
Unfortunately, can't go there.
Stacy
Do not archive
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
Cessna's have been flying since about 1937 with dual wing tanks. One the many cross-country
flights I've made in them don't remember ever worrying about fuel
syphoning out of the tanks. A 150 or 172 fuel valve would be ideal to use as
fuel selector for dual wing tanks.
Cheers, Jim
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> all good points Terry.
>
> As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve
> would be
> opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would
> drain into
> the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in
> straightand level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there
> would still be the
> issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated
> flight when
> the tanks were full.
>
> sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it
> to be not
> so good.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
> >
> > DJ wrote
> > "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be
> put in
> the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would
> hold but
> enough to extend the range at least another hour or so."
> >
> > Don wrote
> > "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons
> each."> ----------------------------
> > This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
> > - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This
> could be
> dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd
> have to fill
> the tube from the wing tip end.
> > - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
> > - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-
> intendedobstructions.
> > - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
> >
> > --
> > Terry L. Bowden
> > ph 254-715-4773
> > fax 254-853-3805
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ========================================================================
>
>
>
>
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