---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/17/04: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:51 AM - Re: wing tank option? (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 2. 07:25 AM - Re: wing tank option? (Greg Bacon) 3. 07:56 AM - Re: wing tank option? (DJ Vegh) 4. 08:11 AM - Under Seat Storage (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 5. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: wing tank option? () 6. 08:39 AM - Re: wing tank option? (Textor, Jack) 7. 08:49 AM - Looking for Red Betsy (Barry Davis) 8. 11:27 AM - Cont Engine mount bolts (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 9. 11:44 AM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (Stacy Clark) 10. 12:20 PM - Re: Looking for Red Betsy (walt evans) 11. 01:18 PM - Model A engines (TBYH@aol.com) 12. 02:05 PM - Re: Model A engines (cgalley) 13. 02:05 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Don Morris) 14. 02:14 PM - Re: wing tank option? (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 15. 02:22 PM - Re: Model A engines (Carl D. Vought) 16. 02:41 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (N321TX@wmconnect.com) 17. 02:41 PM - Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan (Aircraft Spruce) 18. 02:56 PM - Re: Model A engines (N321TX@wmconnect.com) 19. 04:03 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (hjarrett) 20. 05:40 PM - Re: wing tank option? (John Ford) 21. 05:43 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (John Ford) 22. 05:46 PM - Re: wing tank option? () 23. 07:06 PM - Re: Cont Engine mount bolts (Rcaprd@aol.com) 24. 07:49 PM - Re: First Flight Procedure (Larry Nelson) 25. 08:08 PM - Re: First Flight Procedure (cgalley) 26. 08:33 PM - Re: First Flight Procedure (DJ Vegh) 27. 10:05 PM - Re: Looking for Red Betsy (Stacy Clark) 28. 10:09 PM - Re: Andy Griffith, etc....... (Stacy Clark) 29. 10:20 PM - Re: wing tank option? (jimboyer@direcway.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:33 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com DJ wrote "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but enough to extend the range at least another hour or so." Don wrote "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each." ---------------------------- This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider... - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill the tube from the wing tip end. - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG. - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions. - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:55 AM PST US From: Greg Bacon Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon Bill, I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done. Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church? Greg Bacon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other > things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank. > Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose > tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really > would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing > tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic attached). > I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would > look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might affect > the flight of the plane. Any ideas? > A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, which > could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides, > and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present > more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your > expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a change. > It's just a thought. > > Bill > > > <> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:55 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" all good points Terry. As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would be opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain into the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straight and level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be the issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight when the tanks were full. sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be not so good. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > DJ wrote > "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but enough to extend the range at least another hour or so." > > Don wrote > "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each." > ---------------------------- > This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider... > - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill the tube from the wing tip end. > - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG. > - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions. > - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design. > > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:25 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Under Seat Storage 0.50 MIME_BASE64_LATIN RAW: Latin alphabet text using base64 encoding 1.01 MIME_BASE64_TEXT RAW: Message text disguised using base64 encoding --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com I exchanged some emails with Jim Markle yesterday at work after I saw a picture of his pilot's seat with a hinged bottom. (They should have never given me internet at work.) He got me thinking about using this space for cargo. I had already been wanting to beef up the seat structure anyway because I thought the original builder had made it too light. I thought about it all day yesterday and even during my son's 7th grade "away" football game last nite. We got home at 11pm. I had been dying to look over my seat structure all day. So I went out to the shop to study how I might design something there. This led to poster board mock up work. Before I knew it....the clock said 3am. I am excited to report that I have come up with a neat little sheet metal compartment design. There's actually more space down there than I expected. You could certainly keep a quart or two of oil, some rags, fuel strainer, etc... down there. And I accomplished a light weight beef up in the process. I am paying close attention to protecting elev. and rudder cables. I plan to work on it some this weekend. I'll try to post pictures soon. I am on a roll...streak of 7 evenings in a row working on the Piet. One of them a VERY late-nighter. I am draggin at work today... needing a nap big time. :) -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:30 AM PST US d="scan'208"; a="314686982:sNHT16717616" From: Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg, Bill is a fellow Chapter member but he is not on the internet so here is his info. Bill Rewey 3339 Mound View Rd Verona, WI 53593 Hope this helps. I deleted the email from Mr Church so can you pass this on to him? Thanks Leroy Brandt > > From: Greg Bacon > Date: 2004/09/17 Fri PM 02:24:38 GMT > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon > > Bill, > > I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I > believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last > name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a > larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build > tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done. > > Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church? > > Greg Bacon > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Church" > To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)" > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > > > > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other > > things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank. > > Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the > > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be > > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose > > tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really > > would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing > > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing > > tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic > attached). > > I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would > > look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might > affect > > the flight of the plane. Any ideas? > > A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, > which > > could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides, > > and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present > > more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the > > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your > > expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a > change. > > It's just a thought. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > <> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? From: "Textor, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Textor, Jack" Bill gave me my first Piet ride this year at Brodhead, very nice man! His contact info is: Bill Rewey 608-833-5839 3339 Mondview Road Verona, WI 53593-9743 Jack Textor ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:59 AM PST US d="scan'217,208"; a="312689183:sNHT17324364" From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help? Barry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:05 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cont Engine mount bolts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Help.. What's the size (diameter and length) of the engine mount bolts used to mount an A65 continental using the continental engine mount per plans? I had this somewhere but can't find it when I need it. I am planning to go shopping at the YARD store in Wichita next week. Chuck says they have them there. Thanks in advance.. :) -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:46 AM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" Ahh, the simpler times. Remember when there used to be only four channels (ABC, CBS, NBC, and NET [remember that one?])? If I had my way nowadays there would be three TV channels: The Andy Griffith Channel, The Leave it to Beaver Channel, and the Father Knows Best Channel. (Maybe Laurel & Hardy and Our Gang on cable). Speaking of kids calling 911 on their parents, I remember one time I spanked my oldest daughter for something when she was about 8 or 9. She came back with a school fed line "that's child abuse". So of course, I showed her the difference (a few more whacks on the butt). In the first quarter of seventh grade she went from A's to F's and was starting to hang around with the wrong crowd (I could tell because I used to be "the wrong crowd")...so I grounded her for the entire remainer of the school year. That also telegraphed nicely to my two younger ones as well...they're still A's and B's years later. She is now 18 years-old and is paying her own way through college to become a nurse (dad's hoping doctor [but no pressure]). She's consistantly had the highest grades in all her college classes over two years (the hard ones by the way) and she's not a nerd. Now, if I could only find a way to get rid of her boyfriend. Stacy Do not archive There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:12 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy Go here for the website,,, http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html you can follow the show times. Seems that it started locally near Wis. and is creeping around the country. Hopefully it will get everywhere. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help? Barry ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:48 PM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines Spent some time cleaning on my e-Bay Model A engine today and started disassembling it. Bought a valve spring compressor tool and quickly figured out how to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of retainers on top of the spring? A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? I couldn't find any at our local library or even interlibrary loan -- lot's of book available on the car with some info on engines, but nothing I know of devoted strictly to rebuilding the engine... The good news is I have not spotted any cracks in my engine -- yet! Came from near Fargo N.D. Was mounted in a wooden frame complete with radiator, starter, generator and tranny -- was being used as a power take-off or saw mill or something...BHP would be proud to see this engine recycled! By selling the non-airplane parts I basically paid for the engine -- shipped the tranny to Houston, TX. The fellow only paid $63 for it on e-Bay, but was willing to pay almost $140 for shipping! The good news for me is that it's out of my garage! The starter and generator went to Michigan; the chrome radiator shell to Tucson and the radiator (just like new!) went to Stockton, CA. Love that e-Bay! Anyway -- any tips on engine disassembly or a good book would be appreciated. Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:03 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines Cruddy stems. If you have the springs and retainer washers off you can clean the stems. Can you push up each valve by turning the crank? The cam should push them up. If you have the cam lifters out you can use a brass drift to drive the valve outs. You will probably want to put in new guides, valves and spring when you overhaul. Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines Spent some time cleaning on my e-Bay Model A engine today and started disassembling it. Bought a valve spring compressor tool and quickly figured out how to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of retainers on top of the spring? A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? I couldn't find any at our local library or even interlibrary loan -- lot's of book available on the car with some info on engines, but nothing I know of devoted strictly to rebuilding the engine... The good news is I have not spotted any cracks in my engine -- yet! Came from near Fargo N.D. Was mounted in a wooden frame complete with radiator, starter, generator and tranny -- was being used as a power take-off or saw mill or something...BHP would be proud to see this engine recycled! By selling the non-airplane parts I basically paid for the engine -- shipped the tranny to Houston, TX. The fellow only paid $63 for it on e-Bay, but was willing to pay almost $140 for shipping! The good news for me is that it's out of my garage! The starter and generator went to Michigan; the chrome radiator shell to Tucson and the radiator (just like new!) went to Stockton, CA. Love that e-Bay! Anyway -- any tips on engine disassembly or a good book would be appreciated. Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:25 PM PST US From: Don Morris Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? <002c01c49cc6$cbbbd9c0$0100a8c0@Desktop> I've been thinking - and that can get scary! I was just putting the leading edge onto all those ribs this afternoon, so if I were to do this, it would have to be right away. The 14 lbs shouldn't be to difficult to support with a couple of plywood brackets, and ample padding. By supporting the tubes at two points near each end and allowing a bit of movement in the supports, this should allow for wing flexure and thermal differences. Now, for the use of the tank. I agree that a couple more fuel caps are undesirous - got to find a better way. Also, I don't want to irrigate the ground with fuel from the vents. However, I seem to recall that FAR 23 allows interconnected fuel tanks with interconnected airspaces. What about attaching a tubes from the bottom of the main section tank to the bottom of the D-cell tanks, and then attaching tubes from the outboard top of the D-cell tanks to the inboard top of the D-cell tanks to the top of the main fuel tanks. Keep the vent tubes fairly small, and put a couple of slosh baffles in the tube tanks, then cover it all up and forget about it. The only way to trap fuel in the tube tanks is to fly for a long period of time with one wing low, and there is no place to drain fuel out onto the ground except the main fuel vent. Tell me what you tink, and why! -Don DJ Vegh wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > >all good points Terry. > >As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would be >opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain into >the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straight >and level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be the >issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight when >the tanks were full. > >sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be not >so good. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > > > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com >> >>DJ wrote >>"I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in >> >> >the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold but >enough to extend the range at least another hour or so." > > >>Don wrote >>"Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each." >>---------------------------- >>This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider... >>- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be >> >> >dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fill >the tube from the wing tip end. > > >>- The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG. >>- Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended >> >> >obstructions. > > >>- Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design. >> >>-- >>Terry L. Bowden >>ph 254-715-4773 >>fax 254-853-3805 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:28 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com How would you go about interconnecting the vented airspace? If not done properly, fuel could become trapped inside the small diameter interconnect vent tubes and could not allow air into the tank unless somehow burped. I am not trying to be a pessimist. I think it could be done. Just stay safe. Again... the concept is interesting...but is a challenge to design. There's a lot to consider. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:05 PM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" I bought a 112-page book entitled "The Model A Engine", written by Wm. Mcree and Paul Mcree. It's very informative and reasonably priced. I got mine from MAC's or Snyder's Antique Auto Parts. It contains a lot of elaboration on the differences between the various year models and also a good bit of overhaul info.Carl Vought On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:18:17 EDT, TBYH@aol.com wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: TBYH@aol.com > > > > to use and remove the retainers -- but the valves don't want to pop out of the > block. Is this because the stems are crudded up, or is there another set of > retainers on top of the spring? > > A better question to ask you all might be what book do you recommend that has > complete disassembly/assembly/overhaul instructions for the Model A engine? > > Fred B. > La Crosse, WI > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:58 PM PST US From: N321TX@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... "Now, if I could only find a way to get rid of her boyfriend." Stacy, Years ago I worked for Continental Airlines. Every once in a while, (I like to say, once in a blue moon) a large junk of blue ice would fall from the sky at 33,000 feet. Those of us in the airline business always said this was sewage from the holding tank of a passenger jet, leaking overboard. If I were you, I'd go to Walmart, buy some Blue Ice (the stuff they have in the Sporting Goods section that we freeze for coolers) and once it is frozen good and hard, load it in your Pietenpol. Ask your daughter to send her boyfriend hiking in the woods, then bomb the bozo with the Blue Ice. Surely, the law enforcement guys would surmise the chap met his death from frozen airline sewage that plummeted down upon him. Just a thought. S.B. Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional www.byop.us ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:58 PM PST US From: Aircraft Spruce Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan da2a@yahoogroups.com, Aircar@yahoogroups.com, canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com, Corby_Starlet@yahoogroups.com, navion_aircraft_mail@yahoogroups.com, piper-cub-builders@yahoogroups.com, quicksilverultralightowners@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com, subaruaircraft@yahoogroups.com, europa-list@matronics.com, kitfox-list@matronics.com, kolb-list@matronics.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Aircraft Spruce Builders, Thanks for bringing the matter of Fuel Mizer vs. NavMan fuel computers to our attention. We have carried Fuel Mizer for a couple of years and had never heard of NavMan. We asked the manufacturer of NavMan about the difference in the units, and as you can see from the following commentary there is definitely a difference, only the Fuel Mizer is recommended for Aviation use. Fuel Mizer has been thoroughly tested in aviation applications and is certified for CAO-95-45 aircraft in the Australia. Best Regards, Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce ----- Original Message ----- From: SlipStream Industries, Inc. Subject: Questions Regarding Fuel Mizer Dear Jim: I am forwarding an email I received from Ole Jensen, President of Boss Products, the manufacturer of the Fuel Mizer under license from Navman. SlipStream is Boss Product's North American distributor. In his response to the questions posed yesterday, he references certain modifications and approvals received for use of this product in aviation. The exact language found on the cover of the Installation and Instruction manual is as follows: This instrument has been modified to comply with Australian Engineering order HEO-469 and certified for CAO 95-25 type aircraft in Australia. Please let me know if you have any questions, or desire any further information. Kindest regards, Mike Puhl SlipStream International ----- Original Message ----- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: Mizer. Dear Mike: The question raised regarding the Navman fuel flow meter and the Mizer is a common one that has been around for many years and a lot of people have lost money and endangered themselves by purchasing the Navman for use in aviation. Nearly all the Navman units purchased for this application have failed and Navman refuses to replace them under warranty. Several years ago we negotiated with Navman and paid a licensing fee that enabled us to make the appropriate modifications for use in aviation. In addition, the Mizer has been registered with CASA (the equivalent to your FAA) and certified by a qualified aeronautical engineer. Boss Products paid to have the appropriate modifications made for use in civil aviation, and these modifications have been improved upon several times since. As a result, the Mizer enjoys an excellent reliability record and has been certified according to CAO order no.HEO-469 as printed on the cover of the installation manual. Any one doubting the validity of our agreement with Navman is free to contact the Vice President of Navman in New Zealand, Mr. Mark Michell, and he will verify these facts. Boss Products is the only company in the world licensed to modify and distribute this particular product. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous marine dealers still offer the Navman for use in unapproved applications despite the knowledge that the manufacturer strictly prohibits this practice. Greed and ignorance are usually the motivator. I can also tell you that the price differences between the Navman and Fuel Mizer are reasonably close, especially considering the potential danger for misuse in a non-approved aviation application. Further, I spoke with Navman earlier today and was told that no one in the U.S. is offering this unit for anywhere close to US $99.00, and that the suggested retail price is US $299.00, though they offer special MAP pricing from time to time. Hope this helps to clear up this issue. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance in any way. Regards, Ole Jensen President _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:01 PM PST US From: N321TX@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A engines There is a fellow in Stamford or Anson, Texas that does nothing but rebuild Model A engines (full time) for people all across the USA and as far away as Austrailia. He even pours his own babbit. He was featured a few weeks ago on one of our local TV stations, KTXS-TV I think. For Southern folks wanting to put a Model A engine in their Pietenpol, but not wanting to mess with the engine innerds... this guy might be a good source. I figure if he has and continues to do work for people overseas, he must have a good reputation. If anyone is interested in finding out more about this guy, I'll be happy to do some looking around and try to locate his shop. An experienced A&P I know down here (Minot Piper of Abilene, TX) built and flew his own Pietenpol using a Model A engine. I bet Minot knows the guy in the news report. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:48 PM PST US From: "hjarrett" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "hjarrett" Is her boyfriend interested in your plane? Would he like a ride? Do you have metal to metal seat belts? Have you ever pulled negative "G" in a Pietenpol? These problems are easier to solve than you would think. ;-) I liked a friend of mines solution. When her boyfriend came over he was cleaning his shotgun in the living room. Didn't say a word to him. Didn't need to. All this in jest of course. Hank (You know <1G FEELS like negative when you aren't used to it.) J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Stacy Clark" > > Ahh, the simpler times. Remember when there used to be only four channels > (ABC, CBS, NBC, and NET [remember that one?])? If I had my way nowadays > there would be three TV channels: The Andy Griffith Channel, The Leave it to > Beaver Channel, and the Father Knows Best Channel. (Maybe Laurel & Hardy > and Our Gang on cable). > > Speaking of kids calling 911 on their parents, I remember one time I spanked > my oldest daughter for something when she was about 8 or 9. She came back > with a school fed line "that's child abuse". So of course, I showed her the > difference (a few more whacks on the butt). In the first quarter of seventh > grade she went from A's to F's and was starting to hang around with the > wrong crowd (I could tell because I used to be "the wrong crowd")...so I > grounded her for the entire remainer of the school year. That also > telegraphed nicely to my two younger ones as well...they're still A's and > B's years later. She is now 18 years-old and is paying her own way through > college to become a nurse (dad's hoping doctor [but no pressure]). She's > consistantly had the highest grades in all her college classes over two > years (the hard ones by the way) and she's not a nerd. Now, if I could only > find a way to get rid of her boyfriend. > > Stacy > > Do not archive > > There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that > is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:25 PM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? Long tanks on the leading edge sounds like a stability problem in the making, even with slosh baffles. Consider having 6 pounds per gallon moving back and forth from the fuselage to the wingtip while you're flaring, or perhaps making the base-to-final turn. Then consider both wings doing it in consort. It sounds like stall-spin city to me. I'm certainly all for having more useable fuel, but there are many good reasons why certified aircraft use several larger tanks close to the fuselage and don't allow the contents of tip tanks to move anywhere very quickly. John (who has enough trouble getting them back on the ground gracefully without having to chase the C.G. all over the place - and I don't mean Chuck Gantzer) John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> pietbuilder@donsplans.com Friday, September 17, 2004 4:04:00 PM >>> I've been thinking - and that can get scary! I was just putting the leading edge onto all those ribs this afternoon, so if I were to do this, it would have to be right away. The 14 lbs shouldn't be to difficult to support with a couple of plywood brackets, and ample padding. By supporting the tubes at two points near each end and allowing a bit of movement in the supports, this should allow for wing flexure and thermal differences. Now, for the use of the tank. I agree that a couple more fuel caps are undesirous - got to find a better way. Also, I don't want to irrigate the ground with fuel from the vents. However, I seem to recall that FAR 23 allows interconnected fuel tanks with interconnected airspaces. What about attaching a tubes from the bottom of the main section tank to the bottom of the D-cell tanks, and then attaching tubes from the outboard top of the D-cell tanks to the inboard top of the D-cell tanks to the top of the main fuel tanks. Keep the vent tubes fairly small, and put a couple of slosh baffles in the tube tanks, then cover it all up and forget about it. The only way to trap fuel in the tube tanks is to fly for a long period of time with one wing low, and there is no place to drain fuel out onto the ground except the main fuel vent. Tell me what you tink, and why! -Don DJ Vegh wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" all good points Terry.As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve would beopened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would drain intothe main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in straightand level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there would still be theissue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated flight whenthe tanks were full.sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it to be notso good.----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.comDJ wrote"I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be put in the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would hold butenough to extend the range at least another hour or so." Don wrote"Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons each."----------------------------This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...- In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This could be dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd have to fillthe tube from the wing tip end. - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.- Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-intended obstructions. - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.-- Terry L. Bowdenph 254-715-4773fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:12 PM PST US From: "John Ford" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... You could always offer to take him bear hunting in Katmai. Make sure he's not wearing anything that might choke one of 'em. John *do not archive* John Ford john@indstate.edu 812-237-8542 >>> N321TX@wmconnect.com Friday, September 17, 2004 4:41:36 PM >>> "Now, if I could only find a way to get rid of her boyfriend." Stacy, Years ago I worked for Continental Airlines. Every once in a while, (I like to say, once in a blue moon) a large junk of blue ice would fall from the sky at 33,000 feet. Those of us in the airline business always said this was sewage from the holding tank of a passenger jet, leaking overboard. If I were you, I'd go to Walmart, buy some Blue Ice (the stuff they have in the Sporting Goods section that we freeze for coolers) and once it is frozen good and hard, load it in your Pietenpol. Ask your daughter to send her boyfriend hiking in the woods, then bomb the bozo with the Blue Ice. Surely, the law enforcement guys would surmise the chap met his death from frozen airline sewage that plummeted down upon him. Just a thought. S.B. Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional www.byop.us ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:31 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon, Nice to see you on the list. Care to tell us about your project? Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bacon" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon > > Bill, > > I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year with a 3 ft center section. I > believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a phonetic spelling on his last > name). His wider center section adds 1 ft of wing span and allows for a > larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an information pack with helpful build > tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well done. > > Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact information to Mr. Church? > > Greg Bacon > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Church" > To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)" > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > > > > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I have time to think about other > > things, and one of the things I was thinking about was the wing tank. > > Specifically, I was wondering about ways to increase the capacity of the > > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems a bit small, and if it could be > > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns about shifting CG with a nose > > tank, as flight progresses (and the need for elevator trim,etc). I really > > would like to have some space to stow junk, and don't want to use the wing > > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought I had was to incorporate a wing > > tank similar to the style used on the old deHavilland Moths (pic > attached). > > I would think the tank capacity could be doubled (I know, I know it would > > look different). What I have no idea about is how such a change might > affect > > the flight of the plane. Any ideas? > > A second idea I had (two in one day, not bad!) was to make two tanks, > which > > could be interchanged. A smaller tank like the plans, for short joyrides, > > and a larger "moth style" tank for cross-country flights. This may present > > more problems than it's worth. I don't profess to know anything about the > > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of you out there could share your > > expertise or opinion. please don't jump all over me for suggesting a > change. > > It's just a thought. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > <> > > > > ============================= Forum - through the Contributions banner ads or any other Matronics Forums. > ============================= http://www.matronics.com/chat > ============================= pietenpol-list@matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/search http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/chat http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============================= > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:04 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cont Engine mount bolts --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/17/04 1:27:49 PM Central Daylight Time, BARNSTMR@aol.com writes: << What's the size (diameter and length) of the engine mount bolts used to mount an A65 continental using the continental engine mount per plans? >> Terry, The plans call out 7/16" engine mount bolts. The Yard store had 7/16" bolts with a 3 3/8" shank length, and a hole in the threaded end. They had about a Zillion of them. Buy 'em by the pound. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:34 PM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings, connecting the controls and installing the fairings in preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me. Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting this. You folks can work on this for about a week and then it is "go" time. Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and fairings. Connect controls. Check oil Check fuel quality and quantity Check coolant Check tire pressures Check controls Start engine and warm up, check guages After warm up, do static power test Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear Cross fingers and take off Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns Return to pattern for first landing Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare That is all I have come up with. It is different that the checklist I use with my Bonanza . ===== Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:44 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley" Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub. If you don't have a tail wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you are "grandfathered." But if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you still need to get the cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy! BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly. Cy Galley Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Nelson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings, > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me. > > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and > then it is "go" time. > > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and > fairings. Connect controls. > Check oil > Check fuel quality and quantity > Check coolant > Check tire pressures > Check controls > Start engine and warm up, check guages > After warm up, do static power test > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear > Cross fingers and take off > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns > Return to pattern for first landing > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare > > That is all I have come up with. It is different that > the checklist I use with my Bonanza . > > > ===== > Larry Nelson > Springfield, MO > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > SV/ Spirit of America > ARS WB0JOT > > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:05 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" this brings up a question I've had. I have no J-3 time but I have about 40 hours in a SuperCub and about 5 hours in a T-Craft. I feel very comfortable in both aircraft. I fly the Supercub on a bi-weekly basis and will continue to do so until the day of my first flight in my Aircamper. Will I make the transition easily?? I certainly understand that a SuperCub is not a Piet..... Or maybe I should get some time in a Champ?? there's a Champ on the field that rents for $58/hr. I'd prefer not to 'cause I'm checked out in the SuperCub and it's easier for me to just fly that. Some opinions from qualified Aircamper pilots please :) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub. If you don't have a tail > wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you are "grandfathered." But > if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you still need to get the > cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy! > > BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly. > > Cy Galley > Safety Programs Editor > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Nelson" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson > > > > > > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings, > > connecting the controls and installing the fairings in > > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard > > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the > > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the > > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe > > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me. > > > > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting > > this. You folks can work on this for about a week and > > then it is "go" time. > > > > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and > > fairings. Connect controls. > > Check oil > > Check fuel quality and quantity > > Check coolant > > Check tire pressures > > Check controls > > Start engine and warm up, check guages > > After warm up, do static power test > > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear > > Cross fingers and take off > > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns > > Return to pattern for first landing > > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare > > > > That is all I have come up with. It is different that > > the checklist I use with my Bonanza . > > > > > > ===== > > Larry Nelson > > Springfield, MO > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618 > > SV/ Spirit of America > > ARS WB0JOT > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:24 PM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy As someone else sent, you can go to www.redbetsy.com. My gut tells me based on the 2003 release date that the movie went from out of the "can" and right back into another "can". I checked on Amazon and eBay and nothing there. Too bad, I would have liked to have seen it. Usually I like what the critics hate. Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol? It was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help? Barry ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:16 PM PST US From: "Stacy Clark" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Andy Griffith, etc....... Unfortunately, can't go there. Stacy Do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:11 PM PST US From: jimboyer@direcway.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com Cessna's have been flying since about 1937 with dual wing tanks. One the many cross-country flights I've made in them don't remember ever worrying about fuel syphoning out of the tanks. A 150 or 172 fuel valve would be ideal to use as fuel selector for dual wing tanks. Cheers, Jim Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > all good points Terry. > > As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve > would be > opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would > drain into > the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in > straightand level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there > would still be the > issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated > flight when > the tanks were full. > > sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it > to be not > so good. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option? > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > > > DJ wrote > > "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be > put in > the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would > hold but > enough to extend the range at least another hour or so." > > > > Don wrote > > "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons > each."> ---------------------------- > > This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider... > > - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This > could be > dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd > have to fill > the tube from the wing tip end. > > - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG. > > - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un- > intendedobstructions. > > - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design. > > > > -- > > Terry L. Bowden > > ph 254-715-4773 > > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > _- > _- > _- > ======================================================================== > > > >