Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:46 AM - Re: First Flight Procedure (Rcaprd@aol.com)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: First Flight Procedure (Rcaprd@aol.com)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Looking for Red Betsy (walt evans)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: First Flight Procedure (Larry Nelson)
5. 08:43 AM - Re: First Flight Procedure (cgalley)
6. 12:10 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Greg Bacon)
7. 12:58 PM - Re: wing tank option? (Greg Bacon)
8. 01:43 PM - Red Betsy (rhartwig11@juno.com)
9. 02:25 PM - hot crotch (DJ Vegh)
10. 03:21 PM - another accident today at FFZ (DJ Vegh)
11. 03:37 PM - Extra Fuel Tanks (Galen Hutcheson)
12. 04:16 PM - Re: another accident today at FFZ (Gordon Bowen)
13. 04:32 PM - Re: another accident today at FFZ (Larry Nelson)
14. 04:53 PM - Re: hot crotch (Pilots4ETW@wmconnect.com)
15. 05:30 PM - Re: Red Betsy (Michael Conkling)
16. 06:46 PM - Continental Engine Mount Bolts (CraigAlanCarter@aol.com)
17. 07:05 PM - Re: another accident today at FFZ (Gordon Bowen)
18. 07:13 PM - Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts (cgalley)
19. 07:17 PM - Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts (cgalley)
20. 09:55 PM - Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
21. 10:51 PM - Re: hot crotch (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/17/04 9:50:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
lnelson208@yahoo.com writes:
<< Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
connecting the controls and installing the fairings in
preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the Howard
Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to the
time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO. Joe
Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for me.
Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by posting
this. You folks can work on this for about a week and
then it is "go" time.
Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
fairings. Connect controls.
Check oil
Check fuel quality and quantity
Check coolant
Check tire pressures
Check controls
Start engine and warm up, check guages
After warm up, do static power test
Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
Cross fingers and take off
Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
Return to pattern for first landing
Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
That is all I have come up with. It is different that
the checklist I use with my Bonanza <vbg>. >>
After assembly is complete, and before any of the turnbuckles are
secured, you need to check symmetry, with a 4 foot level, and the tail up in the
level attitude. Then, re-check everything, including every safety wire and cotter
pin. You also need to pull every inspection cover, and do a thorough
inspection with a mirror, and bright flashlight. Before you add fuel for engine
runs, put it on the scales, and check Weight & Balance for all loading
configurations. Do not trust any previous weight & balance. Do your own, and
see if it
agrees with theirs. Fuel it up a gallon at a time, and make a dip stick to
mark each gallon added, and check for leaks at each step. Do a series of engine
runs over several days, to allow the engine to cool down to ambient temp.
After each engine run, check for fuel, coolant and oil leaks. It's a great
moral booster to have folks come by and say "WOW !! What a great looking plane
!!", but what you really need is to have someone else do a post assembly
inspection. You need to do two or three post assembly inspections, but what you
need
is someone else, who is familiar with this type of construction, to do a
thorough post assembly inspection, in addition to your own.
If you didn't remove the prop, you need to remove the safety wire, and
re-check the prop torque. Break each prop bolt loose, by backing them off about
a half turn, then re-set the torque.
The most common cause for engine failure is a problem in the fuel system.
Before you fly, recheck the gascolator, as well as the fuel bowl for dirt,
bugs, and debris. You've had fuel fittings apart, so odds are there is dirt in
the fuel system. Tie the plane down, put the main gear up on blocks, and do
a sustained full power engine run, with the tail Way down low. This will
sumulate a maximum angle of attack, full power climb rate. Check engine run at
a
lower power setting with the tail way up in the air, to simulate a steep
decent rate.
There will come a time when you are out of excuses, and it's pucker time.
The weather needs to be near perfect, but a very light breeze right down the
runway isn't too bad. This is a very low power airplane, so you must fly it
that way. Say a little prayer, bleed in full power, keep 'er straight down
the runway, hold a little forward stick till the tail comes up, then slowly
relieve the forward pressure as you come up on the mains. One more check for oil
pressure, and coolant temp, as you will pass thru 40 mph. With light back
pressure, the wing will take on the weight, and let 'er fly off. The rumble of
the earth goes away, and your flying !! YEEE HAAAAWWW !! Carefully choose
the area where you will climb out at about 200 fpm, and go to for some gentle
turns. Be in an area where you can land at any time. You must assume the
engine IS going to quit. Emergency landings need to be done straight ahead. You
loose A LOT of altitude if you try to turn to a new heading, especially if
you're a Dead Stick.
If at all possible, land on the grass. When you return to the pattern, a
wheels landing should be your first landing. Cross the fence at 55 to 60
mph, if you can depend on the airspeed indicator being accurate. Gently feel for
the throttle stop, then keep just a little bit of power in through the
roundout. Pull all the power out after the mains are on the ground, and you are
under control. Don't be shy about adding full power and initiate a go around,
just keep the nose down...DO NOT pull the nose up for a go around. When you add
full power for a go around, the nose will come up on it's own, and just keep
a glancing eye on that airspeed indicator.
Have fun, and Good luck !!
Chuck Gantzer
NX770CG
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 9/17/04 10:33:46 PM Central Daylight Time, djv@imagedv.com
writes:
<< Will I make the transition easily?? I certainly understand that a SuperCub
is not a Piet..... Or maybe I should get some time in a Champ?? there's a
Champ on the field that rents for $58/hr. I'd prefer not to 'cause I'm
checked out in the SuperCub and it's easier for me to just fly that. >>
DJ,
I think you will make the transition pretty easily. It would probably be
good to get some time in the Champ, though. It's nice to have that stuff in your
log book. The Pietenpol list have watched you build your ship, and we're all
anxiously awaiting your first flight !!
Chucki
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for Red Betsy |
If you go to this site, as I said, you can see the theaters that it it playing
at now, as we speak.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Go here for the website,,,
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
you can follow the show times. Seems that it started locally near Wis. and is
creeping around the country. Hopefully it will get everywhere.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Davis
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Red Betsy
Did anyone actually see the movie Red Besty about a family and a Pietenpol?
It was never released here and I can't find a copy anywhere. Any help?
Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Cy, I got in a Cub for the first time this past week
in preparation for climbing in the Pietenpol. It was
at a grass strip with obstructions along the entire
length and and each end (trees). I was not familiar
with the airport, and I had never even SAT in a Cub,
as all of my tailwheel time is in Champs. Without
going into everything, I was quite satisfied with my
airwork and landings in this 1939 Franklin powered Cub
(actually started it's life as an L1?). The CFI told
me I will have no problems with the Pietenpol. (How's
THAT for pressure?)
--- cgalley <cgalley@qcbc.org> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley"
> <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub.
> If you don't have a tail
> wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you
> are "grandfathered." But
> if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you
> still need to get the
> cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
>
> BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
>
> Cy Galley
> Safety Programs Editor
> Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport
> Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson
> <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > connecting the controls and installing the
> fairings in
> > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the
> Howard
> > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to
> the
> > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO.
> Joe
> > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for
> me.
> >
> > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by
> posting
> > this. You folks can work on this for about a week
> and
> > then it is "go" time.
> >
> > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > fairings. Connect controls.
> > Check oil
> > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > Check coolant
> > Check tire pressures
> > Check controls
> > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > After warm up, do static power test
> > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > Cross fingers and take off
> > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > Return to pattern for first landing
> > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> >
> > That is all I have come up with. It is different
> that
> > the checklist I use with my Bonanza <vbg>.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Larry Nelson
> > Springfield, MO
> > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > SV/ Spirit of America
> > ARS WB0JOT
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> finish.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
__________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Great!
Look over the terrain while flying your Cub. Pick out emergency fields
before your have a problem. Hopefully you will never need them.
Then go buy a pair of Kevlar flying gloves. With these that the military
always flies with you can touch and grasp thing that you can't handle bare
handed.
Get your self a small voice recorder that has mic input. Plug in a bud type
earphone and tuck it under your headset ear piece. This then will record
every thing you say so you don't need to write anything down. You can record
temps, pressures, speeds, procedures, etc. When you get back on the ground,
then you can debrief.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
>
> Cy, I got in a Cub for the first time this past week
> in preparation for climbing in the Pietenpol. It was
> at a grass strip with obstructions along the entire
> length and and each end (trees). I was not familiar
> with the airport, and I had never even SAT in a Cub,
> as all of my tailwheel time is in Champs. Without
> going into everything, I was quite satisfied with my
> airwork and landings in this 1939 Franklin powered Cub
> (actually started it's life as an L1?). The CFI told
> me I will have no problems with the Pietenpol. (How's
> THAT for pressure?)
>
>
> --- cgalley <cgalley@qcbc.org> wrote:
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "cgalley"
> > <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > Might want to get some dual and time in a J-3 Cub.
> > If you don't have a tail
> > wheel endorsement, now's the time. I presume you
> > are "grandfathered." But
> > if you don't have any recent tailwheel time, you
> > still need to get the
> > cobwebs off before you ruin your new toy!
> >
> > BTW Make sure the controls are hooked up correctly.
> >
> > Cy Galley
> > Safety Programs Editor
> > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport
> > Pilot
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Procedure
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson
> > <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Sometime next week, I will be hanging the wings,
> > > connecting the controls and installing the
> > fairings in
> > > preparation for MY first flight of N444MH, the
> > Howard
> > > Henderson Pietenpol. I have been pondering the
> > > procedure I will use. This plane was flying up to
> > the
> > > time I went to Virginia to trailer it to SW MO.
> > Joe
> > > Santana flew it the day he took the wings off for
> > me.
> > >
> > > Here is my list and I am soliciting advice by
> > posting
> > > this. You folks can work on this for about a week
> > and
> > > then it is "go" time.
> > >
> > > Assemble plane. Mount wings, install struts, and
> > > fairings. Connect controls.
> > > Check oil
> > > Check fuel quality and quantity
> > > Check coolant
> > > Check tire pressures
> > > Check controls
> > > Start engine and warm up, check guages
> > > After warm up, do static power test
> > > Do high speed run, tail up, on main gear
> > > Cross fingers and take off
> > > Gain enough altitude to do some gentle turns
> > > Return to pattern for first landing
> > > Approach at 55 and do not slow until flare
> > >
> > > That is all I have come up with. It is different
> > that
> > > the checklist I use with my Bonanza <vbg>.
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Larry Nelson
> > > Springfield, MO
> > > Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> > > Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> > > 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> > > SV/ Spirit of America
> > > ARS WB0JOT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > finish.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@direcway.com>
The tubular aux wing tanks sounds viable to me. Jim Bede's design which
later became Grumman's AA-1 Yankee has a tubular main spar which IS the fuel
tank. With smart venting and installation, it should work well.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: <jimboyer@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
>
> Cessna's have been flying since about 1937 with dual wing tanks. One the
many cross-country flights I've made in them don't remember ever worrying
about fuel syphoning out of the tanks. A 150 or 172 fuel valve would be
ideal to use as fuel selector for dual wing tanks.
>
> Cheers, Jim
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
> Date: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:58 am
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
> >
> > all good points Terry.
> >
> > As for the yaw forces. I figured that the aux wing tank valve
> > would be
> > opened when the main fuse tank was less than half.... fuel would
> > drain into
> > the main fuse tank and top it off. As long as the aircraft was in
> > straightand level flight it should flow nicely..... BUT there
> > would still be the
> > issue of the fuel coming out of the vents during uncoordinated
> > flight when
> > the tanks were full.
> >
> > sounds like a good idea on the surface, but more thinking shows it
> > to be not
> > so good.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 6:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com
> > >
> > > DJ wrote
> > > "I was once considering small 3" round tubes about 6' long to be
> > put in
> > the leading edge of each wing. I forget how many gallons it would
> > hold but
> > enough to extend the range at least another hour or so."
> > >
> > > Don wrote
> > > "Fascinating idea. These tubes would hold about 2 1/4 gallons
> > each."> ----------------------------
> > > This does sound interesting.... Some items to consider...
> > > - In-flight yaw forces would tend to work against gravity. This
> > could be
> > dealt with by using flapper-type check valves... but then you'd
> > have to fill
> > the tube from the wing tip end.
> > > - The weight (27 lb.) would be ahead of CG.
> > > - Leading edge is fairly susceptible to hangar rash or other un-
> > intendedobstructions.
> > > - Wing bending flexure should be considered in the design.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Terry L. Bowden
> > > ph 254-715-4773
> > > fax 254-853-3805
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _-
> > _-
> > _-
> > _-
> > ========================================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank option? |
<039b01c49cc2$152ac710$9043040a@Notebook1> <004801c49d18$f08f0fe0$edf61e41@ATO>
Hi Greg,
Sure. I'm the proud new owner of John Dilatush's beautiful Mountain Piet.
My brother and I picked it up at the airport in Jefferson, IA last weekend.
Attached is a picture of the load. It only took 3 hours to get it packed up
safe and sound for the 7 hour drive. It fared well on the trip. My goal is
to rebuild the left wing panel and get it flying again soon. John is
helping me to ensure the materials are the same as he used. My only concern
is being able to build on par with John's quality. His workmanship is
phenomonal.
I'll keep you posted on the progress. It may be slow go for a while as we
are in the process of building our dream house. As you know we have two
daughters, a two and a half year old and a three month old, so most of the
wing work will probably be done after they go to bed!
Greg Bacon
----- Original Message -----
From: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
>
> Greg Bacon,
>
> Nice to see you on the list.
> Care to tell us about your project?
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67@direcway.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tank
> option?
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Greg
> Bacon <gbacon67@direcway.com>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I met a gentleman at Brodhead this year
> with a 3 ft center section. I
> > believe his name is Bill Rewey (that's a
> phonetic spelling on his last
> > name). His wider center section adds 1 ft
> of wing span and allows for a
> > larger fuel tank, I think. He sells an
> information pack with helpful build
> > tips. His "Sub Hunting" piet is very well
> done.
> >
> > Can someone get Mr. Rewey's (sp?) contact
> information to Mr. Church?
> >
> > Greg Bacon
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Church"
> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> > To: "Pietenpol List (E-mail)"
> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tank option?
> >
> >
> > > Since I don't have any wood to cut yet, I
> have time to think about other
> > > things, and one of the things I was
> thinking about was the wing tank.
> > > Specifically, I was wondering about ways
> to increase the capacity of the
> > > wing tank. Nine or ten gallons just seems
> a bit small, and if it could be
> > > increased, there wouldn't be the concerns
> about shifting CG with a nose
> > > tank, as flight progresses (and the need
> for elevator trim,etc). I really
> > > would like to have some space to stow
> junk, and don't want to use the wing
> > > and the nose for fuel. So... One thought
> I had was to incorporate a wing
> > > tank similar to the style used on the old
> deHavilland Moths (pic
> > attached).
> > > I would think the tank capacity could be
> doubled (I know, I know it would
> > > look different). What I have no idea
> about is how such a change might
> > affect
> > > the flight of the plane. Any ideas?
> > > A second idea I had (two in one day, not
> bad!) was to make two tanks,
> > which
> > > could be interchanged. A smaller tank
> like the plans, for short joyrides,
> > > and a larger "moth style" tank for
> cross-country flights. This may present
> > > more problems than it's worth. I don't
> profess to know anything about the
> > > installation of fuel tanks. Maybe one of
> you out there could share your
> > > expertise or opinion. please don't jump
> all over me for suggesting a
> > change.
> > > It's just a thought.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <<gypsy moth wingtank.jpg>>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =============================
> Forum -
> through the Contributions
> banner ads or any other
> Matronics Forums.
> >
> =============================
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> >
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> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
Barry,
My wife and I went to see Red Betsy. It has nice footage at the
beginning of the Model A powered Pietenpol that belonged for many years
to one of our Chapter 93 members, Alan Rudolf. The plane is back in
Wisconsin, but I am not sure who owns it. Alan flew the airplane well
into his 80's, but passed away a few years ago. The Western Union
courier in the movie is my son-in-law's brother.
The rest of the movie has nothing more of the Piet, but it is a nice
family movie. I plan to get a copy when it finally comes out on DVD--but
that can take a long time. Keep checking the Internet every few months.
We waited about 2 years before they put "Escanaba in Da Moonlight" on
DVD, but now have are very own copy. If you have ever been to a deer
hunting camp, especially in the north country, ya gotta see dat one-yeh!
do not archive
Dick Hartwig
Waunakee, WI
rhartwig11@juno.com
Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
gotta share a funny story that happened to me today while working on N74DV.
I had to do some final gusset welding to the engine mount. I pulled the
mount off the plane, set it on the ground and fired up the gas torch.
Started welding up the gussets and all is going well. I got the tip a
little too close to the work and get that "Crack/Pop". Usually when that
happens a few small beads of molten metal go flying... no biggie just keep
welding.
Well... you see, today here in Arizona it's a nice chilly 103. So as usual
I'm working in my shorts and Tshirt. anyways...like I say, I got the tip a
little too close and got the "pop"..... molten metal fragments shoot off
from the puddle hit the floor, bounce up and proceed directly up my shorts
where I am instantly made aware of their presence by a great burning
sensation on a part of the body used commonly in adult jokes.
I instantly stand up and start doing a dance that even the local Pima
Indians here would stare at in amazement. The dance included random and
violent hand and arm movements near the crotch.... sort of the "hot potato"
look to it.
This lasts about 5 seconds after which the molten metal assailants have
cooled...... then I started laughing my ass off. I could never get that to
happen again if I tried a thousand times.
so.... I guess the moral of the story would be to wear leather briefs when
welding in shorts...... hmmm leather briefs??? I've only seen those with
metal studs and rings through them... better not go there.
DJ
_
Message 10
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| Subject: | another accident today at FFZ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Another experiemntal went down today about 2 miles from my house at Falconf
Field (FFZ). This makes 7 or 8 fatalities at my home airport in the last 18
months or so. It's getting ridiculous. I don't know what make of
aircraft it was but 2 were on board. There was radio communications to the
tower indicating an engine failure or partial power loss. Stall spin about
500 yards from the end of the runway... it hit near the 15th hole of the
Longbow Golfcourse (appropriately named as it is directly across the street
from the Boeing Apache plant) The aircraft burst into flames on impact .
too many aircraft going down out here.... they are dropping like flies.
DJ
do not archive
_
Message 11
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| Subject: | Extra Fuel Tanks |
Hi Guys,
I am new to the list but have been reading the archives for several weeks now and
want to join in on the discussions. I hope I am doing this right as I am not
anywhere close to being competent on the computer. My name is Galen Hutcheson,
but my flying buddies all call me "Doc." I am now retired and am building
my first airplane...a (hopefully) Ford Model A powered aircamper. I have several
ribs completed and am working on the right fuselage half. I just framed
in my design for a small door today. I have flown for over thirty years the
last ten years or so commercially. I have owned many aircraft to include two
Pitts Specials (one I flew airshows professionally in), two antique biplanes one
a 1929 Kinner Bird and the other a 1930 Waco KNF. Both of which I barnstormed
across the country in (I barnstormed around four years ranging from northern
Wisconsis to the southern regions of Florida depending on the seasons...and
yes, I did a lot of sleeping under the wing). I own
ed a
1947 Aeronica L-16A that I towed banners with, a PT-2, a 1940 Porterfield LP-65
and let's see...an ultralite and a gyro copter. I forgot to mention the 1979
Decathalon I taught acro in for awhile.
I am looking forward to building this Piet and want to equip it with a Ford engine.
I would like to buy one ready to fly or a core engine with info (ie. mechanic)
on how to get the engine converted. Any help would be appreciated.
Now to the origional question about multiple fuel tanks. My L-16 had the usual
13 gal tank in the nose and I later installed two wing tanks (each held 5 gal
of fuel). The wing tanks gravity fed unto the main fuselage tank and were fed
via stop cock valves located in the cockpit (similar to what Lindberg used in
the Spirit of St. Louis). This system worked fine, except sometimes you had
to do some unusal attitude flying to get the fuel to drain down but not a real
problem. This system nearly doubled my fuel capicity and I would do it again.
Hope this is of some help and I am going to enjoy this new family of Piet
builders.
Galen (Doc) Hutcheson
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: another accident today at FFZ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
Makes you wonder about the skills we've lost in this age of high tech
navigation and communications toys. You gotta FLY the airplane no matter
what the emergency. I think there's only one acceptable reason for a
stall/spin accident, something unexpected breaks on the airplane that makes
you lose physical control of the control surfaces. When I went thru my
instrument rating training a few years ago, the young instructor was quick
on the critique when I (flying stuff since '64) didn't respond to ATC within
milliseconds of an ATC instruction. My instructor, since gone on to
commerical aviation, had been trained at a full time live-in flight school
that specialized in pumping out commerical/ATP tickets. One day, we had a
long heated discussion about FLYING THE AIRPLANE FIRST, then navigate and
then lastly communicate, the critiques re. speedy communications with tower
or ATC stopped after that "oldtimer's point of view" discussion. With
practice we can do all three smoothly, but Aviators we are first and
foremost, when we fail to be Aviators first, stall/spin accidents can and
will happen. The average homebuilder spends 1000's of hours building
his/her bird, while taking a pass on currency training, leads to lots of
needless accidents and bad name for homebuilders.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: another accident today at FFZ
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> Another experiemntal went down today about 2 miles from my house at
Falconf
> Field (FFZ). This makes 7 or 8 fatalities at my home airport in the last
18
> months or so. It's getting ridiculous. I don't know what make of
> aircraft it was but 2 were on board. There was radio communications to
the
> tower indicating an engine failure or partial power loss. Stall spin
about
> 500 yards from the end of the runway... it hit near the 15th hole of the
> Longbow Golfcourse (appropriately named as it is directly across the
street
> from the Boeing Apache plant) The aircraft burst into flames on impact .
>
> too many aircraft going down out here.... they are dropping like flies.
>
> DJ
>
>
> do not archive
>
> _
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: another accident today at FFZ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
There have been people killed in crashes of airplanes
when the doors came open. Not necessary. Or when the
engine lets go and oil is coating the windshield. Also
not necessary. The former has happend to me but not
the latter. Knock on wood.
--- Gordon Bowen <gbowen@ptialaska.net> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen"
> <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
>
> Makes you wonder about the skills we've lost in this
> age of high tech
> navigation and communications toys. You gotta FLY
> the airplane no matter
> what the emergency. I think there's only one
> acceptable reason for a
> stall/spin accident, something unexpected breaks on
> the airplane that makes
> you lose physical control of the control surfaces.
> When I went thru my
> instrument rating training a few years ago, the
> young instructor was quick
> on the critique when I (flying stuff since '64)
> didn't respond to ATC within
> milliseconds of an ATC instruction. My instructor,
> since gone on to
> commerical aviation, had been trained at a full time
> live-in flight school
> that specialized in pumping out commerical/ATP
> tickets. One day, we had a
> long heated discussion about FLYING THE AIRPLANE
> FIRST, then navigate and
> then lastly communicate, the critiques re. speedy
> communications with tower
> or ATC stopped after that "oldtimer's point of view"
> discussion. With
> practice we can do all three smoothly, but Aviators
> we are first and
> foremost, when we fail to be Aviators first,
> stall/spin accidents can and
> will happen. The average homebuilder spends 1000's
> of hours building
> his/her bird, while taking a pass on currency
> training, leads to lots of
> needless accidents and bad name for homebuilders.
> Gordon Bowen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 2:18 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: another accident today at
> FFZ
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> <djv@imagedv.com>
> >
> > Another experiemntal went down today about 2 miles
> from my house at
> Falconf
> > Field (FFZ). This makes 7 or 8 fatalities at my
> home airport in the last
> 18
> > months or so. It's getting ridiculous. I don't
> know what make of
> > aircraft it was but 2 were on board. There was
> radio communications to
> the
> > tower indicating an engine failure or partial
> power loss. Stall spin
> about
> > 500 yards from the end of the runway... it hit
> near the 15th hole of the
> > Longbow Golfcourse (appropriately named as it is
> directly across the
> street
> > from the Boeing Apache plant) The aircraft burst
> into flames on impact .
> >
> > too many aircraft going down out here.... they are
> dropping like flies.
> >
> > DJ
> >
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > _
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Larry Nelson
Springfield, MO
Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
1963 GMC 4106-1618
SV/ Spirit of America
ARS WB0JOT
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
Message 14
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Hey, last year I was welding on the corner posts here on my farm. I have a
big trailer with a generator and a couple of MIG welders. Dressed up in leather
gloves, long denim shirt. denim jeans and it's in the middle of the summer.
Not as bad as Mesa, but humid.
I'm welding and sparks are flying everywhere. I also carry a large tank of
water and a spray rig to soak down the grass around the area I'm welding, as not
to start a range-fire out here on the prairie.
I'm welding and I feel the sparks eating me alive on the back of my neck. Not
to worry, this has happened before, but in a few seconds, the welding sparks
are biting through my denim pants, my denim shirt, into my crotch, through my
socks. What the HAY? I stop welding, pull my auto-darkening helmet and GAWD,
Yellow Jacket WASPS are swarming everywhere and they are PISSED OFF. It seems I
was welding a 6 inch open frame pipe they had lovingly built several nests
in, and they were not happy I was screwing up the neighborhood.
After about being stung 50 times, I was hauled to the hospital to get an
auto-injection of some kind of drug, then something else to reduce my elevated
blood pressure.
Now, in addition to hauling a large trailer stocked with water, welding
gear, safety equipment... I keep a can of wasp spray and I look very carefully
where I'm about to weld.
Don't have time to write about dodging rattlesnakes around the fence line,
but have stories about those too.
S.B.
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs@southwind.net>
I've e-mailed the "Red Betsy" folks about when we might expect the DVD to be
available -- I grew up & went to school in the Delafield, WI area, where
some of it was filmed.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: <rhartwig11@juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Red Betsy
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com
>
> Barry,
> My wife and I went to see Red Betsy. It has nice footage at the
> beginning of the Model A powered Pietenpol that belonged for many years
> to one of our Chapter 93 members, Alan Rudolf. The plane is back in
> Wisconsin, but I am not sure who owns it. Alan flew the airplane well
> into his 80's, but passed away a few years ago. The Western Union
> courier in the movie is my son-in-law's brother.
>
> The rest of the movie has nothing more of the Piet, but it is a nice
> family movie. I plan to get a copy when it finally comes out on DVD--but
> that can take a long time. Keep checking the Internet every few months.
> We waited about 2 years before they put "Escanaba in Da Moonlight" on
> DVD, but now have are very own copy. If you have ever been to a deer
> hunting camp, especially in the north country, ya gotta see dat one-yeh!
> do not archive
> Dick Hartwig
> Waunakee, WI
> rhartwig11@juno.com
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
Regarding the bolt A65 bolt diameter, it was my understanding that the plans
were in error and the bolt should be 3/8" instead of 7/16". I think I have in
the archives stating that some have had problems because of this. I have some
detailed drawings of the engine from Continental and it would appear that the
bolt is 3/8". Please let me know if I am wrong because I have just finished
building a steel motor mount jig and will start fitting the tubes in a couple of
days. Buying the bolts will be my last step to make sure I have the right
length.
Craig Carter
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: another accident today at FFZ |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
It still comes down to "continue flying the airplane" no matter what
emergency, this goes without say. The three United pilots that landed their
control surface disabled jet in Iowa a few years ago, continued to fly the
airplane all the way to the ground, they were true Aviators and saved lives.
I've had a door pop open too, scares the devil out of you, but you're still
in control, flying. Oil on the windscreen, Fly the airplane, that's what
the instruments and side windows are for, Spirit of America didn't even have
a front windscreen. People get killed unnecessarily because the emergency
distracted them from their number one job- flying the airplane. Calling
the tower, reseting the transponder, radioing for help, trying to close the
door, fretting about oil on the front screen, punching in the nearest
airport with your GPS, etc. etc., this ain't gonna save you, everything is
secondary to being a Aviator and flying the plane. On the canard-pusher
website, someone reported last month a high time VFR guy, went into the
clouds illegal to get "on top", lost orientation and spun his Velocity into
the dirt. JFK's kid, killed himself and a couple others, not because of the
weather or lack of niffty avionics, but because he failed to FLY the
airplane.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Nelson" <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: another accident today at FFZ
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson <lnelson208@yahoo.com>
>
> There have been people killed in crashes of airplanes
> when the doors came open. Not necessary. Or when the
> engine lets go and oil is coating the windshield. Also
> not necessary. The former has happend to me but not
> the latter. Knock on wood.
>
>
> --- Gordon Bowen <gbowen@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen"
> > <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
> >
> > Makes you wonder about the skills we've lost in this
> > age of high tech
> > navigation and communications toys. You gotta FLY
> > the airplane no matter
> > what the emergency. I think there's only one
> > acceptable reason for a
> > stall/spin accident, something unexpected breaks on
> > the airplane that makes
> > you lose physical control of the control surfaces.
> > When I went thru my
> > instrument rating training a few years ago, the
> > young instructor was quick
> > on the critique when I (flying stuff since '64)
> > didn't respond to ATC within
> > milliseconds of an ATC instruction. My instructor,
> > since gone on to
> > commerical aviation, had been trained at a full time
> > live-in flight school
> > that specialized in pumping out commerical/ATP
> > tickets. One day, we had a
> > long heated discussion about FLYING THE AIRPLANE
> > FIRST, then navigate and
> > then lastly communicate, the critiques re. speedy
> > communications with tower
> > or ATC stopped after that "oldtimer's point of view"
> > discussion. With
> > practice we can do all three smoothly, but Aviators
> > we are first and
> > foremost, when we fail to be Aviators first,
> > stall/spin accidents can and
> > will happen. The average homebuilder spends 1000's
> > of hours building
> > his/her bird, while taking a pass on currency
> > training, leads to lots of
> > needless accidents and bad name for homebuilders.
> > Gordon Bowen
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: another accident today at
> > FFZ
> >
> >
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh"
> > <djv@imagedv.com>
> > >
> > > Another experiemntal went down today about 2 miles
> > from my house at
> > Falconf
> > > Field (FFZ). This makes 7 or 8 fatalities at my
> > home airport in the last
> > 18
> > > months or so. It's getting ridiculous. I don't
> > know what make of
> > > aircraft it was but 2 were on board. There was
> > radio communications to
> > the
> > > tower indicating an engine failure or partial
> > power loss. Stall spin
> > about
> > > 500 yards from the end of the runway... it hit
> > near the 15th hole of the
> > > Longbow Golfcourse (appropriately named as it is
> > directly across the
> > street
> > > from the Boeing Apache plant) The aircraft burst
> > into flames on impact .
> > >
> > > too many aircraft going down out here.... they are
> > dropping like flies.
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > _
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Larry Nelson
> Springfield, MO
> Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A
> Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH
> 1963 GMC 4106-1618
> SV/ Spirit of America
> ARS WB0JOT
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
My Continental Manual says that it is a 3/8" bolt, page 14 upper left hand corner
of the drawing.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
----- Original Message -----
From: CraigAlanCarter@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Engine Mount Bolts
Regarding the bolt A65 bolt diameter, it was my understanding that the plans
were in error and the bolt should be 3/8" instead of 7/16". I think I have in
the archives stating that some have had problems because of this. I have some
detailed drawings of the engine from Continental and it would appear that the
bolt is 3/8". Please let me know if I am wrong because I have just finished building
a steel motor mount jig and will start fitting the tubes in a couple of
days. Buying the bolts will be my last step to make sure I have the right length.
Craig Carter
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
It is also 3/8" as shown on p 19 of the C-75, C-85 manual. Same rubber bushing,
Same part number.
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
----- Original Message -----
From: CraigAlanCarter@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Engine Mount Bolts
Regarding the bolt A65 bolt diameter, it was my understanding that the plans
were in error and the bolt should be 3/8" instead of 7/16". I think I have in
the archives stating that some have had problems because of this. I have some
detailed drawings of the engine from Continental and it would appear that the
bolt is 3/8". Please let me know if I am wrong because I have just finished building
a steel motor mount jig and will start fitting the tubes in a couple of
days. Buying the bolts will be my last step to make sure I have the right length.
Craig Carter
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Continental Engine Mount Bolts |
I just re-checked the plans.... they say to "Ream for 7/16 dia. bolt".
BUT.... my Continental Maintenance and overhaul manual calls for 3/8" diameter
bolts. ALSO... I just went out to the shop and was looking at my A75 engine
which is still bolted to a taylorcraft engine mount. It has 3/8" diameter bolts.
I think the rubber cone bushings that you buy from parts houses would surely
be the same no matter what airplane. I am going to purchase 3/8" bolts. And,
I am making a note on my plans to change the bolt boss I.D. to 3/8".
For the shank length I am adding the 1.5" plans dimension of the mount boss
to the 1 and 19/32" dimension of the aluminum casting on the engine and another
9/32" for the large washer on the nut end. (These #s come from my
Continental maintenance and overhaul manual.) This totals........... 3.375" for
shank
length. So Chuck's shank length is correct.
SUMMARY:
bolt DIA = 3/8
bolt shank length 3 and 3/8 inch
While were on the subject... The bolts I am going to buy for the engine
mount-to-firewall bracket should be 5/16" DIA and...1 and 7/16" shank length.
Terry
Message 21
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<002701c49d96$27bdc560$b15ad90c@yourxhtr8hvc4p>
<006501c49dc5$99adf850$0100a8c0@Desktop>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
No, you better not. Hehehehe!
Everyone's crazy except me and thee.
Sometimes I'm not so sure about thee.
On the other hand, only sane people build Pietenpols. :-) :-)
Clif
> so.... I guess the moral of the story would be to wear leather briefs when
> welding in shorts...... hmmm leather briefs??? I've only seen those with
> metal studs and rings through them... better not go there.
>
> DJ
Do NOT archive. Please.
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