---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/30/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:59 AM - Piets for Sale on Barnstormers.com (Michael D Cuy) 2. 07:13 AM - Re: Another firewall question (Rick Holland) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: fluting the firewall (Rick Holland) 4. 07:43 AM - Re: Another firewall question (John Dilatush) 5. 08:35 AM - firewall/cockpit cowl overlap (Michael D Cuy) 6. 09:07 AM - Re: Invitation: Hank Styne's Weiner Roast (Mike King) 7. 10:48 AM - Firewall Insulation Material (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 8. 11:16 AM - Engine mount fittings and your firewall (Michael D Cuy) 9. 11:33 AM - Re: Firewall Insulation Material (Galen Hutcheson) 10. 12:16 PM - Re: Firewall Insulation Material (Isablcorky@aol.com) 11. 12:30 PM - Re: Firewall Insulation Material (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 12. 12:34 PM - on fire during a flight in an open cockpit (Michael D Cuy) 13. 12:48 PM - Re: Firewall Insulation Material (Isablcorky@aol.com) 14. 02:27 PM - Re: Fuel strainer mesh (Dale Johnson) 15. 03:01 PM - Re: Firewall Insulation Material (Galen Hutcheson) 16. 04:16 PM - Re: Fuel strainer mesh (Isablcorky@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:22 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets for Sale on Barnstormers.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy There are a few goodies for sale on Barnstormers right now. Check out: http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php Mike C. (A fall-like 46 F this morning when I left for work. We're saving on using the A/C at least:) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:18 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Thanks for the info John, what is the best kind of tool for bending (shrinking) sheet metal around a curve? Fluting plyers? And one other sheet metal question, I have noticed that the edges of cowling aluminum sheet is bent slightly all along its edge about a half inch from the edge. Makes the cowling look a lot better. Any special tool used for this or do you just lay the aluminum edge over the edge of the workbench and beat on it? Thanks On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:17:46 -0600, John Dilatush wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Holland" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:47 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland > ============================= > Rick, > > I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then > around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made up > some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted > (shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then screwed > through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich. > > Hope this helps, > > John > ================================ > > > > Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a > > Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to > > match the same dimentions of the firewall ply? > > > > Thank You > > > > -- > > Rick Holland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:23 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fluting the firewall --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland Thanks for the info Mike, did you attach the front edges of your cowling aluminum to the bent-over edge of the firewall stainless sheet with wood or sheet-metal screws? If so is it attached on the top, bottom, and sides? Thanks Rick Holland On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:12:19 -0400, Michael D Cuy wrote: > Rick-- I fluted my curved portion ala Tony B. and it worked great. I > wanted the firewall to not just lay over > the plywood but to overlap the edges all the way around. I have a few > small wood screws securing it to the > 1/8" birch ply firewall and a very thin layer of fiberfrax we were throwing > away at work here years ago. > I don't know where you could find that stuff---possibly Wicks or ACS > ? Dunno. This photo kinda shows the wrap around idea---least on the > sides. > > Mike > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:26 AM PST US From: "John Dilatush" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question ============================ Rick, Fluting pliers are just the ticket for shrinking the leg of the angle which fits against the firewall. The screws that hold the angle to the firewall are then located inbetween the flutes. The flange of the angle that faces away from the firewall is then smooth and you can easily fasten the cowl to it. To make the cowlings, first roll them the the radius that you need, then use a sheet metal brake to make the crease on each side so that the angle of the creased section is the same as the fuselage side. Then you can use brass inserts threaded into the strips that hold the fabric away from the plywood sides to provide for machine screws to fasten the cowlings. Be sure that the "stand off strips" are made of a hardwood and of sufficient width to receive the brass inserts. John =================================== > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland > > Thanks for the info John, what is the best kind of tool for bending > (shrinking) sheet metal around a curve? Fluting plyers? > > And one other sheet metal question, I have noticed that the edges of > cowling aluminum sheet is bent slightly all along its edge about a > half inch from the edge. Makes the cowling look a lot better. Any > special tool used for this or do you just lay the aluminum edge over > the edge of the workbench and beat on it? > > Thanks > > > On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:17:46 -0600, John Dilatush wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Dilatush" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rick Holland" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:47 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another firewall question > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland > > ============================= > > Rick, > > > > I used fiberfrax in between the ply firewall and .020 aluminum. Then > > around the edges of the firewall in order to mount the cowling, I made up > > some angle of .040 aluminum measuring .75 x .75 inches. This was fluted > > (shrunk) on one leg to fit the rounded top to the firewall and then screwed > > through the aluminum/fiberfrax/plywood sandwich. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > John > > ================================ > > > > > > Is there any need to flute the edges of the firewall sheet metal on a > > > Piet? (As shown in Firewall Forward) or do you just cut the sheet to > > > match the same dimentions of the firewall ply? > > > > > > Thank You > > > > > > -- > > > Rick Holland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:38 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: firewall/cockpit cowl overlap <5.1.1.5.2.20040929120406.010a5ac0@popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Rick-- I used I think three wood screws that went thru the front edge of my .025" aluminum cockpit cowl thru the bent-over edge of the firewall, and then into a 1/2" or so wide of spruce that I bowed to glue to the aft side of the 1/8" birch ply firewall. (to reinforce it a bit) Then the engine cowl I overlapped around the perimeter of the firewall by about 1/2". There is an attached sketch that shows a bit more. Mike ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:32 AM PST US From: "Mike King" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Invitation: Hank Styne's Weiner Roast Hey Tick Hill Gang, I would love to be there with you at Hank's but I have a Shriner function that same day or I would fly the GN-1 there for dogs and fellowship. Hopefully we will have some other events coming soon before the cold (below 90 degrees) weather settles in North Texas. Have fun. Mike King GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Invitation: Hank Styne's Weiner Roast Howdy all, The attached is an invitation from Hank Styne to his 16th annual Weiner Roast at his place near Grandview, TX. Hank says the invite applies to all those whe were at the Tick Hill Fly-In. I talked to Max Davis and Jim Markle today and both are planning to be there. I'll see you all there. Terry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:33 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Insulation Material --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com I've convinced myself to use Fiberfrax on my firewall and I have a few friends locally who also want some. So I just purchased a whole roll of 1/2" thick premium quality Ceramic blanket, 2300 degree (1260 Celcius) maximum temperature rating. It is 8# density for good strength and thermal protection. I expect to have it here by the middle of next week. I'll have a lot more than enough material than we need here. So I'll be glad to offer cut-offs to Piet builders for what I paid... $1.45/ sq.ft. + shipping costs. It comes in 1/2" thick X 24" width. Just let me know what length you need and send me your address and a check or M.O. for the amount you need. I estimate UPS shipping cost within lower 48 states to be between $6 to $12. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:48 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine mount fittings and your firewall --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Terry and Group--- One thing that can bring tears to your eyes is not having enough length on the metal ears of those fittings that stick out thru your firewall that accept the bolts to hold your motor mount on. (I guess the Ford has the ash bearers, but the bottom are the same on all. I made the ears on those fittings about 1/2" longer than the plans show because I knew by the time I added the firewall, the insulation, and the metal firewall that it might be a tough fit to get the engine mount back far enough to make those bolts slip thru the holes. As it was I just had enough room. That 1/2" insulation will compress some Terry but you'd be fine to "peel" a thinner layer off of it if it is the kink I am thinking of. You know how tight Bernie was with those fittings.......some of them as designed just do not fit or work at all. I would bet that Bernie just laid a piece of plywood over the front as a fire wall with some shellac on it. One thing that really helped me out was gluing the firewall plywood on last. It was the last thing I did before covering. It was all made up, test fit, had all the lines/service holes in it.....but only screwed on and off many times before the final gluing. Mike ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:58 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Insulation Material --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Hi Terry, Count me in for two feet. Just email me when it comes in and I will send you a check. Thanks. Doc --- BARNSTMR@aol.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > BARNSTMR@aol.com > > > I've convinced myself to use Fiberfrax on my > firewall and I have a few friends locally who also > want some. So I just purchased a whole roll of 1/2" > thick premium quality Ceramic blanket, 2300 degree > (1260 Celcius) maximum temperature rating. It is 8# > density for good strength and thermal protection. > > I expect to have it here by the middle of next week. > I'll have a lot more than enough material than we > need here. So I'll be glad to offer cut-offs to > Piet builders for what I paid... $1.45/ sq.ft. + > shipping costs. It comes in 1/2" thick X 24" width. > Just let me know what length you need and send me > your address and a check or M.O. for the amount you > need. I estimate UPS shipping cost within lower 48 > states to be between $6 to $12. > > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:11 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Insulation Material Terry, I'll need an address to send you a check Corky ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:48 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Insulation Material --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Corky... How much are you going to need? Heres my address. -- Terry L. Bowden 2457 Texas Highway 236 Moody, TX 76557 ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:23 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: on fire during a flight in an open cockpit --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy The most disconcerting thing (and enjoyable) thing that happens when flying an open cockpit low and slow is that you can smell lots of things going on at ground level like fires. When someone is burning a tire or you go over a town with a plant that is putting out the scent of something burning, it always makes my mind race to "what if that is me ?" Sometimes you know right away because it smells like a camp fire or mowed hay or.......manure even, then other times you can't see a smoke cloud and you smell it-----something burning. The very first thing I do is an s-turn and look over my shoulder to see if I am trailing smoke. Once I see I am not, I relax again. (and engage the autopilot that is coupled to my inertial navigation system) Mike C. PS-- those of you who ride motorcycles know what that experience is like of smelling things much more easily than when riding in a car. You can smell steaks on the grill, dryers going with fabric softener, a good cigar, and even once in a while a Harley chick with some nice perfume ahead of you. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:16 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Insulation Material One piece 24x27 inches since my fuse is 27 inches wide. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:36 PM PST US From: "Dale Johnson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel strainer mesh Hi Corky I have Catalog No 103. It's on page 218. I ordered 60 x60 Brass mesh in a 12 x 12 sheet. The part no is 9223t144 for $6.82 Dale in Mpls ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel strainer mesh Dale, Would you mind looking up the page for me? Corky ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:14 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Insulation Material --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Terry, I am going to send you a check for 4 sq. ft ($5.80) plus $10 shipping & handling. I'll put the check in the mail tomorrow. Thanks. Galen (Doc) Hutcheson 17 Meadowlark Lane Harrison, AR 72601 Ph: 870-741-5539 --- BARNSTMR@aol.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > BARNSTMR@aol.com > > > I've convinced myself to use Fiberfrax on my > firewall and I have a few friends locally who also > want some. So I just purchased a whole roll of 1/2" > thick premium quality Ceramic blanket, 2300 degree > (1260 Celcius) maximum temperature rating. It is 8# > density for good strength and thermal protection. > > I expect to have it here by the middle of next week. > I'll have a lot more than enough material than we > need here. So I'll be glad to offer cut-offs to > Piet builders for what I paid... $1.45/ sq.ft. + > shipping costs. It comes in 1/2" thick X 24" width. > Just let me know what length you need and send me > your address and a check or M.O. for the amount you > need. I estimate UPS shipping cost within lower 48 > states to be between $6 to $12. > > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:21 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel strainer mesh Thanks Dale, I'll get after it Corky