---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/13/04: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:40 AM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Michael D Cuy) 2. 05:23 AM - "engine turning" cowlings (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 05:49 AM - Re: "engine turning" cowlings () 4. 06:27 AM - Re: Metal Substitution (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 5. 07:23 AM - Long fuselage plans strut fitting (Rick Holland) 6. 07:24 AM - Re: Metal Substitution (DJ Vegh) 7. 08:33 AM - Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions (Richard Navratil) 8. 08:39 AM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Richard Navratil) 9. 09:40 AM - Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions (DJ Vegh) 10. 11:20 AM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Galen Hutcheson) 11. 11:27 AM - Re: Metal Substitution (Galen Hutcheson) 12. 11:33 AM - Re: "engine turning" cowlings (Galen Hutcheson) 13. 11:41 AM - wheel weights (Michael D Cuy) 14. 11:53 AM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Galen Hutcheson) 15. 11:55 AM - Re: wheel weights (Galen Hutcheson) 16. 12:53 PM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Richard Navratil) 17. 02:15 PM - material sent (BARNSTMR@aol.com) 18. 02:34 PM - Re: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 02:37 PM - Re: Metal Substitution (Rcaprd@aol.com) 20. 03:32 PM - Re: "engine turning" cowlings (Carl D. Vought) 21. 03:52 PM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Carl D. Vought) 22. 05:38 PM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Galen Hutcheson) 23. 05:47 PM - Re: Metal Substitution (Galen Hutcheson) 24. 05:57 PM - Re: Another question-motor cycle wheels (Galen Hutcheson) 25. 07:04 PM - off the subject (Richard Navratil) 26. 07:35 PM - Re: off the subject (cgalley) 27. 07:59 PM - oil & oil temp questions (Ted Brousseau) 28. 08:39 PM - did you know - OT (DJ Vegh) 29. 09:42 PM - Re: off the subject (Richard Navratil) 30. 09:42 PM - Google and "N" number (Galen Hutcheson) 31. 09:44 PM - Re: oil & oil temp questions (Richard Navratil) 32. 10:07 PM - Re: Google and "N" number (Galen Hutcheson) 33. 10:52 PM - Re: did you know - OT (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:25 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Doc-- Wil Graf in nearby Wadsworth Ohio has used off the shelf used motorcycle wheels for years with no problems, despite what people say about needing the wide-width hubs. Wider hubs ARE the preferred way to go, but if you don't ground loop it or go off into the toolies the regular wheels as is work fine once you have them bored and bushed for the axle size you are using. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:09 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings Gentlemen, I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd appreciate thoughts on how to get those "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? With a piece of metal the size of the cowling parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. Thoughts?? Douwe douweblumberg@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:10 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: HI Douwe, It is called "Engine Turning". I did my instrument panels using an old intake valve with a circular pad of Scotchbrite superglued to it, mounted in my drill press. It only takes a second of pressure to put the swirls into aluminum. Jack Phillips > > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > Date: 2004/10/13 Wed AM 08:33:11 EDT > To: "pietenpolgroup" > Subject: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings > > Gentlemen, > > I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd appreciate thoughts on how to get those "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. > > Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? > > With a piece of metal the size of the cowling parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. > > Thoughts?? > > Douwe > douweblumberg@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:26 AM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Doc, The only place I've considered substituting aluminum in place of steel is the streamline wing struts... but I've decided not to. Some folks have though. I can't see that you'd gain much by changing the design of the fittings. The dimensions would need to ge significantly changed. I would be most concerned about the fatigue life, especially around bolt holes. Aluminum would require much greater edge distance and/or greater thickness to equal the same strength. So, you certainly couldn't expect to save much weight as the fittings are designed pretty light to begin with. Thats my 2 cents worth. -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:00 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage plans strut fitting --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rick Holland The long fuselage plans have a large note on top "3/4" x3 Filler For Strut Fitting". So I was going to attach my rear cabane strut fitting to that. Then I read in the archieves that you should attach it to the vertical strut that runs between the top and bottom longeron. Opinions? Attaching to the filler block would pervent me from having to cut off the ends of the 1/2x1 cross brace and the cowl support. Thanks -- Rick Holland ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:29 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I went with aluminum not for weight savings but for cost savings. 4130 streamline was going to cost me a fortune and I got all the aluminum strut material for about $175 from Carlson Aircraft. In reality I think the aluminum struts come out about 20% heavier than steel once the end fittings are installed and they are ready to fly. One day, after I get my TIG welder and learn to use it I'm gonna make 4130 struts..... one day DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > Doc, > The only place I've considered substituting aluminum in place of steel is the streamline wing struts... but I've decided not to. Some folks have though. I can't see that you'd gain much by changing the design of the fittings. The dimensions would need to ge significantly changed. I would be most concerned about the fatigue life, especially around bolt holes. Aluminum would require much greater edge distance and/or greater thickness to equal the same strength. So, you certainly couldn't expect to save much weight as the fittings are designed pretty light to begin with. Thats my 2 cents worth. > -- > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:01 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions Stacy In thinking about this weight saving issue, consider how much weight you are really saving over how much you are compromising you safety. In basic structural issues it is always best to stay with the plans. On the wing ribs, I dont know but suspect its just for some extra wiggle room in fitting the ribs. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Clark To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 2:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions Guys, For the engineers out there, would the attached rough drawing be feasible? I came up with the idea based on the concept that Lindbergh used a wicker seat in the Spirit of St. Louis and looking at some of DJ's shots of the GN-1. The corners would be rounded and the sections between the cutouts would be approximately 4" to 5" wide (WAG - wild ass guess). I would carry over the concept to the seats and seat backs as well. Any thoughts? On another subject, for everyone that's used Charles Rubeck's wing ribs (or hasn't for that matter). I have noticed that the front "hole" width for the main spar is 1" and the back "hole" is 1-1/8" wide. The spar matierial I have is 1" wide. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:36 AM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels Doc Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are working out great. 1 1/4" axle 18" - 4140 axle inserts Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with rear wheel bearings Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor cycle > wheels that have been used with good results for the > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight and > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the line" > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle the > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. > Thank for your advice. > > Doc > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:43 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions Stacy... if you leave about 3-5" of ply at the edges and cut the center out, making sure you have a nice large radius, it will be fine. I used a full roll of Duct tape as my radius when I traced the lines. Do not do sharp radiuses or hard corners as it will be a stress riser. The material in the middle does little in the way of strength..... it's almost nothing but dead weight. Do use a good quality aircraft ply. cheap hardware store ply would not be suggested if youre going to cut out the centers. I saved about 2 lb by doing that, but 2 lb in the tail means about 4 up front to counter it so it could be said youre saving 6lb.... although, for other reasons that is debatable. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Clark To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions Guys, For the engineers out there, would the attached rough drawing be feasible? I came up with the idea based on the concept that Lindbergh used a wicker seat in the Spirit of St. Louis and looking at some of DJ's shots of the GN-1. The corners would be rounded and the sections between the cutouts would be approximately 4" to 5" wide (WAG - wild ass guess). I would carry over the concept to the seats and seat backs as well. Any thoughts? On another subject, for everyone that's used Charles Rubeck's wing ribs (or hasn't for that matter). I have noticed that the front "hole" width for the main spar is 1" and the back "hole" is 1-1/8" wide. The spar matierial I have is 1" wide. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Stacy There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:21 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Dick, That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, wish I still had the wheels) do you know which model they came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle junk-yard and we were going to look for something. Thanks for sending the pic and the info. Doc --- Richard Navratil wrote: > Doc > Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are > working out great. > 1 1/4" axle > 18" - 4140 axle inserts > Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with > rear wheel bearings > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galen Hutcheson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > cycle wheels > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > Hutcheson > > > > > > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor > cycle > > wheels that have been used with good results for > the > > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight > and > > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the > line" > > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or > > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle > the > > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. > > Thank for your advice. > > > > Doc > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:35 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Thanks Terry and DJ, I just had a passing thought about the aluminum as I had a damaged spring aluminum gear that came off my Pitts that I have been looking for something to do with except to bring back some unpleasant memories. :) It is really strong stuff and would be good material, but it also might be heavier. Thanks for the info though. Doc --- DJ Vegh wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" > > > I went with aluminum not for weight savings but for > cost savings. 4130 > streamline was going to cost me a fortune and I got > all the aluminum strut > material for about $175 from Carlson Aircraft. > > In reality I think the aluminum struts come out > about 20% heavier than steel > once the end fittings are installed and they are > ready to fly. > > One day, after I get my TIG welder and learn to use > it I'm gonna make 4130 > struts..... one day > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:26 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > BARNSTMR@aol.com > > > > Doc, > > The only place I've considered substituting > aluminum in place of steel is > the streamline wing struts... but I've decided not > to. Some folks have > though. I can't see that you'd gain much by > changing the design of the > fittings. The dimensions would need to ge > significantly changed. I would > be most concerned about the fatigue life, especially > around bolt holes. > Aluminum would require much greater edge distance > and/or greater thickness > to equal the same strength. So, you certainly > couldn't expect to save much > weight as the fittings are designed pretty light to > begin with. Thats my 2 > cents worth. > > -- > > Terry L. Bowden > > ph 254-715-4773 > > fax 254-853-3805 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:36 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Douwe, I've seen it done with a wire cup brush attached to either a drill press or a good hand drill. Doc --- pietflyr@bellsouth.net wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > > > HI Douwe, > > It is called "Engine Turning". I did my instrument > panels using an old intake valve with a circular pad > of Scotchbrite superglued to it, mounted in my drill > press. It only takes a second of pressure to put > the swirls into aluminum. > > Jack Phillips > > > > From: "Douwe Blumberg" > > > Date: 2004/10/13 Wed AM 08:33:11 EDT > > To: "pietenpolgroup" > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings > > > > Gentlemen, > > > > I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd > appreciate thoughts on how to get those > "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. > > > > Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die > grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? > > > > With a piece of metal the size of the cowling > parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll > have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. > > > > Thoughts?? > > > > Douwe > > douweblumberg@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:50 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheel weights --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Galen-- you might want to shop around for aluminum rims/wheels as you will save a decent amount of wt. there in the wheels if you do. Steel rims are okay but alum. even better. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:41 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Hi Michael, Nice talking to you again. I felt that way too. There are some pretty heavy motorcycles out there and many of them take some pretty good side loads and seem to hold up pretty well. I appreciate all the good info that you and the group have given me. I am still plugging along and making pretty good headway. Except for a little logging accident (a tree kicked back and caused my prized chain saw to take a big bite out of my knee) which put me on crutches for awhile. As winter moves in, I am going to have to give up some of my workshop to my wife's car. She doesn't share the zeal I have for the Piet. :) I wonder if I "accidentally" get some T-88 on her car she might want to park elsewhere? I wonder... Thanks to the group for all the fine info and I am looking forward to meeting all of you at Broadhead this summer. Doc --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Doc-- Wil Graf in nearby Wadsworth Ohio has used off > the shelf used > motorcycle wheels > for years with no problems, despite what people say > about needing the > wide-width hubs. > Wider hubs ARE the preferred way to go, but if you > don't ground loop it or > go off into the toolies > the regular wheels as is work fine once you have > them bored and bushed for > the axle size you are > using. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:18 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wheel weights --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Great idea Mike, I'll do that. Thanks. Doc --- Michael D Cuy wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Galen-- you might want to shop around for aluminum > rims/wheels as you will > save a decent amount of wt. there > in the wheels if you do. Steel rims are okay but > alum. even better. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:09 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" Unfortunatly the wheel is off a 2002 and later, with sealed bearings. The spread between spokes is 4 1/2". I commonly see them at M.C swap shows and on e-bay at about $150. I used the Harley rotors also and go kart calipers, though on my new Piet I'm using Harley calipers. I compared notes with Greg Cardinal some time ago and my set up was within a couple of pounds of his. As I recall, 63 lb. including wheels, tires brakes and axle. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galen Hutcheson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > > Dick, > > That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley > wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, wish > I still had the wheels) do you know which model they > came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle > junk-yard and we were going to look for something. > Thanks for sending the pic and the info. > > Doc > --- Richard Navratil wrote: > >> Doc >> Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are >> working out great. >> 1 1/4" axle >> 18" - 4140 axle inserts >> Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with >> rear wheel bearings >> Dick >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Galen Hutcheson" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor >> cycle wheels >> >> >> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen >> Hutcheson >> > >> > >> > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor >> cycle >> > wheels that have been used with good results for >> the >> > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight >> and >> > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the >> line" >> > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or >> > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle >> the >> > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. >> > Thank for your advice. >> > >> > Doc >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________ >> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! >> > http://vote.yahoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:22 PM PST US From: BARNSTMR@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: material sent --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com Don Hicks (waytogopiet@aol.com), I still cannot email to your aol account directly. I was trying to send you this... I sent your material via priority mail today. Total with Shipping came out to $14.75. Tracking # is 03032460000076897432 -- Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:36 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lightened Sides & Wing Rib Questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com Stacy, The GN1 has the plywood all the way to the tail, and I could see the reasoning for carefully placing lightning holes there towards the tail. However, the holes in the cockpit area are not recommended, because this is where the majority of the stresses of the engine, wing, and landing gear all come together, and your weight savings would be minimal. Also, if you put holes there you will certainly drop something in there, between the plywood and the fabric. Keep in mind the seats in the Pietenpol are structural pieces, especially the pilot seat. NX211 (Spirit of St. Louis) was a steel tube fuselage, and the wicker seats are a light weight and durable place to sit. As for the ribs, the aft hole should be 1". It seems you will have to figure out where the holes are in relation to the plans, and shim with plywood at each rib, to maintain the plans location of the spars. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:52 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 10/13/04 12:58:22 AM Central Daylight Time, wacopitts@yahoo.com writes: << Has anyone thought about or has done substituting a high grade aluminum (of equal strength to the steel fittings) for some of the steel fittngs. I should think that by redesigning the fittings to enhance their strength might be a good alternative. >> Doc, It's all been thought of, and some even built, but the resounding conclusion is to stick with the plans method and dimensions of steel fittings. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:52 PM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "engine turning" cowlings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" I believe the old time machinest call it "damiscening" (sp?). Carl V On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:33:11 -0400, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > > > Gentlemen, > > I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I'd appreciate thoughts on how to get those "turning/swirl" marks on a bare aluminum cowling. > > Is it a very fine stainless wire brush in a die grinder or one of those nylon abrasive brushes?? > > With a piece of metal the size of the cowling parts, using a drill press is out, so I assume it'll have to be handheld, maybe with some sort of jig. > > Thoughts?? > > Douwe > douweblumberg@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:37 PM PST US From: "Carl D. Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" Galen: For the record, the wheels on my unlicensed/unfinished Aircamper are 19" BMW motorcycle wheels. The tires are 4.00/90 and my understanding is that this means the inside diameter is 19" and width is 4.00" and the height is 90% of that or 3.6". I believe that the wide (6") hubs are more authentic, and more asthetic but gain one little in the way of side load strength....Carl V On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:18:46 -0700 (PDT), Galen Hutcheson wrote : > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > Dick, > > That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley > wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, wish > I still had the wheels) do you know which model they > came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle > junk-yard and we were going to look for something. > Thanks for sending the pic and the info. > > Doc > --- Richard Navratil wrote: > > > Doc > > Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They are > > working out great. > > 1 1/4" axle > > 18" - 4140 axle inserts > > Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced with > > rear wheel bearings > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Galen Hutcheson" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > > cycle wheels > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > > Hutcheson > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor > > cycle > > > wheels that have been used with good results for > > the > > > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really tight > > and > > > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the > > line" > > > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing or > > > motocross wheels would have the strength to handle > > the > > > side loads that one would anticipate with flying. > > > Thank for your advice. > > > > > > Doc > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:51 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Hi Carl, Thanks, that gives me even more options. I agree, it would be nice to stay with the authentic as much as possible, but at what cost. Seems the smaller wheels would be lighter too, esp if aluminum. Thanks for the input. What did you use for an axel? Doc --- "Carl D. Vought" wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. > Vought" > > Galen: For the record, the wheels on my > unlicensed/unfinished Aircamper are > 19" BMW motorcycle wheels. The tires are 4.00/90 and > my understanding is > that this means the inside diameter is 19" and width > is 4.00" and the > height is 90% of that or 3.6". I believe that the > wide (6") hubs are more > authentic, and more asthetic but gain one little in > the way of side load > strength....Carl V > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > today! > > > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:42 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Substitution --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Thanks Chuck, looks like that is the general opinion. Doc --- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/13/04 12:58:22 AM Central > Daylight Time, > wacopitts@yahoo.com writes: > > << Has anyone > thought about or has done substituting a high grade > aluminum (of equal > strength to the steel fittings) for some of the > steel fittngs. I should think that > by redesigning the fittings to enhance their > strength might be a good > alternative. >> > > Doc, > It's all been thought of, and some even built, but > the resounding conclusion > is to stick with the plans method and dimensions of > steel fittings. > > Chuck G. > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:50 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor cycle wheels --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Dick, that's not bad. I will keep my eyes open for some good deals. Might have to go rekindle some old Harley friendships...hummmm. :) (I can see the headlines now..."OLD MAN CAUGHT STEALING WHEELS OFF HELL'S ANGEL'S BIKE--FULL RECOVERY EXPECTED, CONDITION STABLE." Doc --- Richard Navratil wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard > Navratil" > > Unfortunatly the wheel is off a 2002 and later, with > sealed bearings. The > spread between spokes is 4 1/2". I commonly see > them at M.C swap shows and > on e-bay at about $150. I used the Harley rotors > also and go kart calipers, > though on my new Piet I'm using Harley calipers. > I compared notes with Greg Cardinal some time ago > and my set up was within a > couple of pounds of his. As I recall, 63 lb. > including wheels, tires brakes > and axle. > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galen Hutcheson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > cycle wheels > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > Hutcheson > > > > > > Dick, > > > > That sounds like a great wheel. I know the Harley > > wheels are tough (once owned two Harleys myself, > wish > > I still had the wheels) do you know which model > they > > came out on? A friend of mine knows of a cycle > > junk-yard and we were going to look for something. > > Thanks for sending the pic and the info. > > > > Doc > > --- Richard Navratil > wrote: > > > >> Doc > >> Check out my Harley Davidson 21" wheels. They > are > >> working out great. > >> 1 1/4" axle > >> 18" - 4140 axle inserts > >> Wheel bearings have to be removed and replaced > with > >> rear wheel bearings > >> Dick > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Galen Hutcheson" > >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:06 AM > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another question-motor > >> cycle wheels > >> > >> > >> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > >> Hutcheson > >> > > >> > > >> > Does anyone know of any "off the shelf" motor > >> cycle > >> > wheels that have been used with good results > for > >> the > >> > Piet with the wooden gear? Money is really > tight > >> and > >> > I can't afford right now to have a "top of the > >> line" > >> > set of wheels fabricated. Surely some racing > or > >> > motocross wheels would have the strength to > handle > >> the > >> > side loads that one would anticipate with > flying. > >> > Thank for your advice. > >> > > >> > Doc > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________ > >> > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote > today! > >> > http://vote.yahoo.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=P1010109.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:19 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: off the subject I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:27 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off the subject Doesn't work ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off the subject I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:58 PM PST US From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" Dick, We use Aeroshell 100 50w here in Florida year around. We had the Shell expert talk to us this year and he said that 15/50 was exactly what you need up in that COLD country of the north. Of course, we don't know anything about cold down here but I remember his comments. Go ahead and use it. Went flying for 3 hours today for the first time since the weekly run of huricanes. It was nice to have some nice fall weather with blue skys and low 80s. Ted From: "Richard Navratil" The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil summer and 20w winter. Would there be a problem with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything about oil science. Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are going down. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for colder temps? I know that running to cold can cause carbon build up and increase the chance of fouling plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of a couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of the cylinders, inside the eyebrows. I dont plan on extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get out on good days. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:57 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" Subject: Pietenpol-List: did you know - OT did you know that you can enter an N number into google and it will give you a result that takes you right to the registration info? DJ do not archive _ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:47 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off the subject Sorry, I left out a part of there adderss Please try again www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthenflash.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: cgalley To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off the subject Doesn't work ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off the subject I tried sending this earlier but it didn"t go thru. If you all have time check this out. It is a beautiful tribute to our troops, not political. Turn up the sound. www.clermontyellowribbon.com/untilthen.htm ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:47 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Google and "N" number --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson DJ, you are right about that. That is incredible! For fun, enter N894W, click on Bird4 and follow the links. You will see my last love. I don't know how that plane got on there, but those were some of my pics. I'm going to try some of the other numbers. Thanks DJ. Doc _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:39 PM PST US From: "Richard Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Navratil" Thanks Ted Good to hear you made it thru the hurricanes ok. It's time for the oil change and the weather is changing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Brousseau" Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil & oil temp questions > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > > > Dick, > > We use Aeroshell 100 50w here in Florida year around. We had the Shell > expert talk to us this year and he said that 15/50 was exactly what you > need > up in that COLD country of the north. Of course, we don't know anything > about cold down here but I remember his comments. Go ahead and use it. > > Went flying for 3 hours today for the first time since the weekly run of > huricanes. It was nice to have some nice fall weather with blue skys and > low 80s. > > Ted > > From: "Richard Navratil" > > The manual for the A-65 engine calls for 40w oil summer and 20w winter. > Would > there be a problem with running Aeroshell 15w-50? I dont know anything > about > oil science. > Also, I have noticed that my oil temp has dropped since air temps are > going > down. > I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to make some baffle plates for > colder > temps? I know that running to cold can cause carbon build up and increase > the chance of fouling plugs while making power changes. I'm thinking of > a > couple of perforated plates that would lay on top of the cylinders, inside > the > eyebrows. I dont plan on extreme cold flying but it would be nice to get > out > on good days. > Dick N. > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:23 PM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Google and "N" number --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson There are three pics of my Bird. One is listed as part of the Bach collection. I sent Richard Bach some photos, and we emailed for awhile, to keep him posted on my barnstorming activities. Guess he liked the old Bird too. I sure miss that old gal, we had a lot of fun together. --- Galen Hutcheson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen > Hutcheson > > DJ, you are right about that. That is incredible! > For fun, enter N894W, click on Bird4 and follow the > links. You will see my last love. I don't know how > that plane got on there, but those were some of my > pics. I'm going to try some of the other numbers. > Thanks DJ. > > Doc > > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:36 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: did you know - OT <014e01c4b19f$9d987fb0$0100a8c0@Desktop> This appears to work for us Canucks too! Somewhere from my pea brain the letters C-FAUK came to the fore, purely by accident and not intentional. Try this registration. A surprise awaits you! Clif do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: DJ Vegh To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com ; Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: did you know - OT did you know that you can enter an N number into google and it will give you a result that takes you right to the registration info? DJ do not archive _