Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: ()
3. 06:00 AM - Re: America Tour '05 (John Ford)
4. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Price for a new A-65 (Barry Davis)
5. 06:52 AM - Re: leading edge (DJ Vegh)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: America Tour '05 (John Ford)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: leading edge (Chris Robbins)
8. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Price for a new A-65 (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
9. 08:37 AM - Re: America Tour '05 (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
10. 09:35 AM - "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] (Matt Dralle)
11. 01:53 PM - Re: leading edge (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 02:24 PM - Re: (Rcaprd@aol.com)
13. 02:31 PM - tour america 05 (Richard Navratil)
14. 03:17 PM - Re: tour america 05 (Gordon Bowen)
15. 03:20 PM - Re: leading edge (Carl D. Vought)
16. 05:39 PM - Re: leading edge (Javier Cruz)
17. 07:19 PM - Re: leading edge (Don Morris)
18. 07:30 PM - Re: tour america 05 (Richard Navratil)
19. 08:18 PM - Re: tour america 05 (TomTravis@aol.com)
20. 08:18 PM - Mountain Flying (John Dilatush)
21. 09:07 PM - Re: tour america 05 (Gordon Bowen)
22. 09:31 PM - Re: Mountain Flying (Gordon Bowen)
23. 10:52 PM - Western Mountains (ADonJr@aol.com)
24. 11:32 PM - Taildragger poem (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
1.16 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header
Hey guys (and gals?)
This is for you guys who have built up some hours on your Piets. I'm outfitting
the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is really needed in terms
of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment etc. I've built two
small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map holder on the right side
where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should I do two of these?
There also seems to be room in front of the passenger (Ford powered) for a nice
size storage area.
With no actual experience, I'm not sure what is really needed and what's overkill.
Thanks,
Douwe
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Hi Douwe,
With only 7.5 hours on my Piet, I can't claim to be an expert on long trips, but
I will say that it's probably not possible to have too much storage space.
I have a helmet box behind the rear seat, under the turtledeck. I use it to store
my helmet and goggles. I have two triangular map pockets as you describe
and I haven't used them at all yet, but have not taken a trip in it yet (still
flying off the hours in my "box"). I have a full baggage compartment in front
of the forward instrument panel (Continental power,with the fuel in the centersection)
that is large enough to hold a tent, a sleeping bag and a duffle bag.
it currently is used to store a jacket, some chocks, a fire extinguisher,
and a few tools.
I will probably add a "Cup Holder" to hold a small water bottle for long trips,
like when I fly it from NC to Brodhead next July.
Jack
NX899JP
>
> From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2004/11/04 Thu AM 08:47:39 EST
> To: "pietenpolgroup" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List:
>
> Hey guys (and gals?)
>
> This is for you guys who have built up some hours on your Piets. I'm outfitting
the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is really needed in
terms of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment etc. I've built
two small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map holder on the right
side where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should I do two of these?
>
> There also seems to be room in front of the passenger (Ford powered) for a nice
size storage area.
>
> With no actual experience, I'm not sure what is really needed and what's overkill.
>
> Thanks,
> Douwe
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: America Tour '05 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Chuck,
Based upon my limited experience flying a Cessna 152 in the mountains
of Alaska, I would certainly suggest limiting your baggage as much as
possible and plan on making lots of short hops with considerably less
than full fuel (but ample safety margins) so you've got some
performance. Another thing if you're following roads and train tracks:
they occasionally go through tunnels, but rivers typically don't. Once
aloft, staying on the windward side of the ridges will tend to provide
good lift, whereas the leeward side will do the opposite. Lots of folks
fly through some pretty scary terrain in Champs and T-crates with half
an Elk in the back, so it can be done safely with very little
horsepower. Maybe this would be a good time to design an electric
supercharger that runs off your smoke system for takeoffs? :) And of
course, it's a heck of a lot more fun flying in the mountains than
simply pointing the nose at some smokestack 50 miles away over flat
terrain...
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Rcaprd@aol.com Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:10:45 AM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
Sterling,
Unfortunately, we didn't put any marks on my big chart. I really
enjoyed
having you and your dad here, and hearing about some of his adventures.
It would
be very helpful, if you would ask him to recall those 'Low Routes' and
mail
them to me. I'll go over them, and maybe give him a call sometime, to
answer
the inevitable questions. I'll bet he would enjoy recalling those
flights !!
Gordon,
Although I haven't got any experience in Mountain Flying, I always read
everything I can on the subject, and saving all your advise. Some of
the small
strips present quite a challenge to get into and out of. There is a
good article
in this month's AOPA magazine on the subject. It says "Terrain is
absolute.
It's like the Terminator - there's no arguing with it and no reasoning
with
it." If I do this flight, I plan on a gradual introduction to the
higher
terrain (short hops), and talking with all the locals about the routes.
I think it
would also be necessary for me to limit my cargo to 50 lbs.
Chuck G.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
d="scan'217,208"; a="511709483:sNHT22713072"
| Subject: | Re: Price for a new A-65 |
I just paid $12k for an o-200 with new everything including new crank and slick
mag kit. A 65 will be cheaper because of accessories.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Price for a new A-65
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
>
> Fellas ,
>
> What would one expect to pay for a newly overhauled A-65-8. Generally
> speaking of course and ready to go into a certified airplane. Assume new
> Slicks and overhauled carb (Stromberg), Spider, and no prop hub or prop.
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I'm at that stage too on my wings and I am going to use .020 Aluminum. I
may get on that next month.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
>
> Hi friends
>
> I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some
people
> used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
> coments, recomedations etc.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend at
"Chapala
> Air Club" excelent planes and people..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: America Tour '05 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "John Ford" <Jford@indstate.edu>
Oh, and I almost forgot: Takeoff as early in the morning as possible,
so they have more daylight to look for you... ;)
John
John Ford
john@indstate.edu
812-237-8542
>>> Rcaprd@aol.com Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:10:45 AM >>>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
Sterling,
Unfortunately, we didn't put any marks on my big chart. I really
enjoyed
having you and your dad here, and hearing about some of his adventures.
It would
be very helpful, if you would ask him to recall those 'Low Routes' and
mail
them to me. I'll go over them, and maybe give him a call sometime, to
answer
the inevitable questions. I'll bet he would enjoy recalling those
flights !!
Gordon,
Although I haven't got any experience in Mountain Flying, I always read
everything I can on the subject, and saving all your advise. Some of
the small
strips present quite a challenge to get into and out of. There is a
good article
in this month's AOPA magazine on the subject. It says "Terrain is
absolute.
It's like the Terminator - there's no arguing with it and no reasoning
with
it." If I do this flight, I plan on a gradual introduction to the
higher
terrain (short hops), and talking with all the locals about the routes.
I think it
would also be necessary for me to limit my cargo to 50 lbs.
Chuck G.
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Chris Robbins" <Twoway.8505278595@messaging.nextel.com>
Stop sending me this crap
In Reply To Your Message
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I'm at that stage too on my wings and I am going to use .020 Aluminum. I
may get on that next month.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
>
> Hi friends
>
> I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some
people
> used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
> coments, recomedations etc.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend at
"Chapala
> Air Club" excelent planes and people..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Price for a new A-65 |
My cost for overhauling my Continental A-80 is very close to these prices,
with the exception of a new camshaft. They are VERY hard to find these days and
expect to pay $500. Try Sacramento Sky Ranch. They have an impressive list of
parts for the small Continental engines.
Also note, my above referenced engine was "advertised" as having only 5 SMOH.
It was overhauled by a "shade-tree" A&P and was not airworthy. When we
disassembled the engine, we found a shot camshaft, a worthless crankshaft. The
accessory case was in dire need of repair as was the engine case.
Don't make the same mistake I made in taking the owner's word for the
overhaul, nor what is represented in an engine logbook. Get a second opinion before
parting company with your cash.
S.B.
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: America Tour '05 |
I talked to my dad last night. His memory is incredible and he even recalls
some dirt strips at pipeline compressor stations in and near the Rockies where
he often landed his Twin Bonanza, Cessna 310, Cessna 421, back in the "old
days." Three of the more scenic is around Corona, New Mexico, Guadalupe Peak in
Texas and near Shiprock.
I'll get with him this week and have him sketch out the old routes these guys
flew back in the 50s and 60s. The dirt strips may not even be on the charts
these days, but in the event of needing to make an unplanned landing, your
Pietenpol could do it with ease and I bet the folks at the compressor stations
would be happy to buy you a cup of coffee and a warm place to settle in. Just
tell them you know an old pilot named Roy sent you.
S.B.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | "What's my Contribution used for?" [PLEASE READ!] |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?", and this is certainly
a valid question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List
support enables. It provides for the very expensive, business-class,
high-speed T1 Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum
performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays
for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and
List Browser. It pays for 16+ years worth of online archive data available
for instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing,
developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List
Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and
your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from
moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer
viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements
about these days? I will venture to say - next to none...
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects
of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 11/4/04 12:50:28 AM Central Standard Time,
javcr@prodigy.net.mx writes:
<< I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some people
used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
coments, recomedations etc.
Thanks in advance >>
Javier,
I used the 1/16" plywood for the leading edge, spliced it over a rib, and
extended it to the front edge of the leading edge, and aft side of the front
spar. Don't glue it to the spar. I used adhesive, and NO nails. I experimented
with how I would strap it down, without the use of nails, before I put the T88
to it. After the plywood was installed, it stuck up a bit between the ribs,
but once the fabric was shrunk down, it pulled it down between the ribs just
perfectly.
Chuck G.
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 11/4/04 7:37:57 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
<< I'm outfitting the cockpit and want to know in your experience, what is
really needed in terms of cubby holes, map storage pockets, jacket compartment
etc. I've built two small glove boxes under the seat and am making a map
holder on the right side where the diagonal meets the vertical sidemember. Should
I do two of these? >>
Douwe,
It's true, that you can't have enough secure storage space, where things
don't come loose in turbulance and wind blowing around in the cockpit. As you
gain flight time, you will no doubt continue to upgrade the cockpit area to suit
your needs. Take advantage of the location of a second map holder on the left
side. These are places that are relatively easy to access during flight. As
I noted in an earlier post, I use Velcro extensively, to secure things in the
Pit. The stuff next to my hips aren't quite as easy to access during flight,
but are doable. My biggest challenge during cross country flight is managing
the current chart that I am using. I fold it all up to maybe a 6" X 8"
portion, put it on my clipboard that is velcroed to my left leg. Any bigger than
that, and it tends to flutter around, and wants to come out from under the
clipboard. I have used those small paper holder clamps to help hold the chart,
but then I fear dropping one on the floor and jaming the controls, so I tie
EVERYTHING off with strings. I keep a Highlighter pen cap secured to the left
side of the windshield, and tie off the body of it with a string, to maintain my
position on the chart. Ever try to remove the pen cap, make a mark, and
replace the cap with one hand, without dropping it ? It is a very convienent
location to access the highlighter, and update my position on the chart with it
every 5 or 10 minutes. However, sometimes it becomes necessary to change charts
en route. Here is the challenge: Change out the chart without having it
blow out of the cockpit, while trying to maintain course and altitude !! An old
Stearman Pilot advised me to Always carry duplicate charts, in case one blows
out. If they blow out of the cockpit, and get caught on the tail, you can't
climb back there to retrieve them...however, I did see it done in a movie.
Chuck G.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips on some
specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman and around
Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick up.
Dick N.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: tour america 05 |
Dick,
Do you know of any way for getting from Spokane to Billings without going over
7000' ? My only idea was going southeastward from Portland up the Snake River
to Idaho Falls then north over the Beaverhead River down stream to Dillion MT,
then going around the north side of Yellowstone. It's circuitious, but maybe
doable in a Piete. Lots of rocks in those clouds and the northern Rockies weather
changes by the minute, the only time the wind ain't blowin' is when it
stops to change directions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips on some
specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman and
around Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick up.
Dick N.
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl D. Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
I tried aluminum over the leading edge, but couldn't convince myself I had
it attached properly (got as far as covering the center section) I used
aircraft nails (about 1/2"). I ripped it off and went with 1/32 plywood. It
behaved very nicely, except that it oilcanned in spots. In between ribs, I
installed 1.5" wide strips of 1/16" plywood. When these are cut to exactly
the right length, they pop into place and hold the leading edge skin in the
right position. I applied T-88 to them before popping them into place. I
did something that some people dissapprove of: I filled the space between
ribs with a strip glued to the top of the spar. Some folks say that the
fabric is supposed to sag between ribs. I can't see any advantage to
having the skin depart from the airfoil defined by the ribs...and that's
exactly what it does when you let it sag....Carl Vought
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:48:09 -0600, Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
wrote :
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
>
> Hi friends
>
> I am ready for the leading edge of the wings, checking the list some
people
> used plywood, other one (DJ i think) used aluminium, so any help here,
> coments, recomedations etc.
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> By the way, i want to thanks to Gary Gower for the last weekend
at "Chapala
> Air Club" excelent planes and people..
>
> Javier Cruz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
Thanks for your help Friends
I will try to get 1/16 plywood here (Mexico), if not, i will call to Wicks ,
maybe they can send the plywood cut for less expensive shipping. I have on
hand some sheets of formica, but i don't know if it is enought hard for
leading edge.
Javier Cruz
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
<004901c4c2d8$0d8a2be0$230110ac@gateway.2wire.net>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Don Morris <pietbuilder@donsplans.com>
Hi.
I would NOT use Formica on the leading edge. It is very brittle, and
will crack and disintegrate. I hate to think of what a bird strike
would do to it. It is also quite heavy. I am also ready for my leading
edge, and I think I am going to try for the aluminum.
-Don
Javier Cruz wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
>
>Thanks for your help Friends
>I will try to get 1/16 plywood here (Mexico), if not, i will call to Wicks ,
>maybe they can send the plywood cut for less expensive shipping. I have on
>hand some sheets of formica, but i don't know if it is enought hard for
>leading edge.
>Javier Cruz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: tour america 05 |
Gordon
I've travelled quite a bit in the area from Idaho Falls to Dillon and I don't have
my charts with me now but I don't recall many airports or good places to make
an emergency landing along that way. I'm not that familiar with the Spokane
area to Missoula except by land but once that far re-fueling on some of the
flat routes is a problem.
Bozeman pass is around 6000' but can be rough and the winds and turbulance around
Livingston are often severe.
My thought would be Dillon to Ennis to West Yellowstone to Gardnier to Livingston
to points east or reverse.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Dick,
Do you know of any way for getting from Spokane to Billings without going over
7000' ? My only idea was going southeastward from Portland up the Snake River
to Idaho Falls then north over the Beaverhead River down stream to Dillion
MT, then going around the north side of Yellowstone. It's circuitious, but maybe
doable in a Piete. Lots of rocks in those clouds and the northern Rockies
weather changes by the minute, the only time the wind ain't blowin' is when it
stops to change directions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips on
some specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman and
around Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick
up.
Dick N.
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: tour america 05 |
How about Mullan Pass east of Spokane?
Tom Travis
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Chuck G. and other "Pieters"
I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!
However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,
and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a few
comments?
Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the pilot
only) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all the
camping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground.
It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up to
an airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperature
has gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind you
staying an extra day!
It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed over
11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to the
temperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power and
a long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.
I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,
enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You have
to keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that you
are getting maximum power.
Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude can
be higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulence
can really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorly
constucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to extreme
turbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then plan
to quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.
I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in gliding
range. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road, the
rescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!
Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared to
what you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the same
air speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Since
a Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, either
with power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sea
level and think you are landing in molasses!
When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the other
side before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going to
climb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along with
the bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passes
look the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that the
pass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to know
where to start looking!
Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!
It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will find
it one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.
Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you have
enough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.
Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feet
above ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70
mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.
That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John" :o)
If you do decide to come through our area, please give me a call, we have a couple
of unused bedrooms downstairs.
Boy, do I miss "Mountain Piet".
John Dilatush,
Salida, Colorado
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: tour america 05 |
Thanks Dick,
When I use to spend most of the year in Ogden UT, I'd fly up to Dillion MT to fish
the Beaverhead and Afton WY to fish the Salt and Snake. One time I took my
125hp Traumahawk into both these places with a passenger and decided never to
do it again, never thought I'd be able to "corkscrew" enough altitude to get
back out of those places. Later fishing trips up to places with +6000' airport
elevations involved a rented C-182 from the flying club. The northern part
of the US Rockies is a lumpy place, but beautiful as it gets. I'm putting a 100
hp O-235 into the Piete rebuild I'm doing this winter down in FL, if I get
it going by Jan., I'll see if it'll climb to 9000', just about the lowest safe
altitude I'd recommend for anyone in a single engine trying to cross the Northern
Rockies at the passes. Hope the Tour USA trip before Broadhead can come
off, it'd be a sweet trip. I'm out of Alaska tomorrow, currently about 15F and
snowing, and this is the Palm Coast of AK.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Gordon
I've travelled quite a bit in the area from Idaho Falls to Dillon and I don't
have my charts with me now but I don't recall many airports or good places to
make an emergency landing along that way. I'm not that familiar with the Spokane
area to Missoula except by land but once that far re-fueling on some of the
flat routes is a problem.
Bozeman pass is around 6000' but can be rough and the winds and turbulance around
Livingston are often severe.
My thought would be Dillon to Ennis to West Yellowstone to Gardnier to Livingston
to points east or reverse.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Dick,
Do you know of any way for getting from Spokane to Billings without going over
7000' ? My only idea was going southeastward from Portland up the Snake River
to Idaho Falls then north over the Beaverhead River down stream to Dillion
MT, then going around the north side of Yellowstone. It's circuitious, but
maybe doable in a Piete. Lots of rocks in those clouds and the northern Rockies
weather changes by the minute, the only time the wind ain't blowin' is when
it stops to change directions.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tour america 05
Chuck
I have done quite a bit of flying in the Rockies in Mont. It is very beautiful
but can be quite trecerious also. I would be happy to share some tips
on some specific areas when you get into the planning stages. Most of my experience
is from the Black Hills, SD. across WY. Billinngs, Red Lodge, Bozeman
and around Yellowstone Park.
Most of your flying should be in the early mornings, before the winds kick
up.
Dick N.
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Flying |
Great posting John, especially regarding summer days and density altitudes over
9,000' even if the airport is "only" 4500' field elevation, saw a niffty rebuilt
Tri-Pacer burn it in a couple years ago because of this problem, three people
got toasted.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dilatush
To: Rcaprd@aol.com
Cc: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Chuck G. and other "Pieters"
I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!
However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,
and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a few
comments?
Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the
pilot only) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all the
camping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground.
It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up
to an airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperature
has gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind
you staying an extra day!
It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed
over 11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to
the temperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power and
a long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.
I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,
enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You have
to keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that you
are getting maximum power.
Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude
can be higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulence
can really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorly
constucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to
extreme turbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then plan
to quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.
I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in gliding
range. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road,
the rescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!
Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared
to what you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the same
air speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Since
a Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, either
with power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sea
level and think you are landing in molasses!
When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the
other side before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going
to climb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along
with the bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passes
look the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that
the pass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to
know where to start looking!
Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!
It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will
find it one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.
Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you
have enough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.
Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feet
above ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70
mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.
That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John" :o)
If you do decide to come through our area, please give me a call, we have a couple
of unused bedrooms downstairs.
Boy, do I miss "Mountain Piet".
John Dilatush,
Salida, Colorado
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Western Mountains |
Hello group,
When you fly out of Coeur d'Alene, ID, there are two routes that avoid
the high elevations encountered crossing farther south. Following I-90 through
Missoula, Butte, Billings, etc. you will not have to go much higher than
6500-7000 feet. If you cut north to Kalispell and skirt Glacier Nat'l Park, you
only need to clear 5280 foot Marias Pass. Of course, this is the long way
around, but who flying a Pietenpol is in a hurry, anyway? Some of North Dakota
is
beautiful from the air! I sure hope to be able to join a Pietenpol Air Tour
in some not-too-distant year! Don
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Taildragger poem |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
This just arrived in my inbox. I'm sorry, I
just had to send it on, even though I know
it can't possibly relate to us. :-) :-)
> I'm sure some can relate to this! :o))
>
> Taildragger, I hate your guts,
> I have the license, ratings and such.
> But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
> With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
> It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
>
> You see, I learned to fly in a trycycle gear
> with one up front and two in the rear.
> She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
> But this miserable thing with tires and struts
> Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
>
> It demands your attention on the take-off roll
> or it heads towards Jone's as you pour on the coal.
> Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
>
> This wicked little plane is just too much.
> With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
> I think I've mastered this slippery machine
> It's not that bad if you have the touch
> Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
>
> I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
> I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
> That's my own tail that's going by.
> You grounding looping wreck; I hate your guts,
> Give a little rudder, Great Scott, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
>
> Author Unknown
Clif
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|