Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:03 AM - List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
2. 08:43 AM - drag wires (Jeff Hill)
3. 08:47 AM - Cooling systems for Model A Piets (john s)
4. 09:17 AM - another fatal accident at my home airport (DJ Vegh)
5. 09:20 AM - Re: drag wires (DJ Vegh)
6. 10:13 AM - Re: another fatal accident at my home airport (Gary Gower)
7. 11:08 AM - Re: drag wires (Isablcorky@aol.com)
8. 11:10 AM - Re: another fatal accident at my home airport (Isablcorky@aol.com)
9. 11:32 AM - Re: another fatal accident at my home airport (DJ Vegh)
10. 04:05 PM - Re: drag wires (Galen Hutcheson)
11. 04:09 PM - Re: how many yards of covering? (jimboyer@direcway.com)
12. 04:26 PM - Re: Cooling systems for Model A Piets (Galen Hutcheson)
13. 04:44 PM - Re: drag wires (Richard Navratil)
14. 08:11 PM - Re: drag wires (Clif Dawson)
15. 11:28 PM - Re. Drag Wires (Galen Hutcheson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that has already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
made your Contribution, won't you show your support for these valuable
services today? Since there's no advertising or other forms of direct
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Members have been including some very nice comments along with their
Contributions this year. Please take a minute to read over some of the
thoughts your fellow Listers have expressed regarding the Lists and what
they mean to them. What do the Lists mean to you...?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill" <jeff2dogs@hotmail.com>
How many builders have used 3/32" cable instead of 1/8" for the wing drag wires?
It would save a lot of weight and the rating of 3/32 is 920 lbs breaking strength
(for stainless). Isn't this more than adequate?
On another topic, why does there seem to be only one company that makes cable shackles?
ACSS has had them on back order for a year with no end in sight. The
only way I can see to get around this is to use swaged forkedcable ends and use
a clevis pin for attachment to the metal wing tab.
Jeff in TX
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cooling systems for Model A Piets |
1. Should I use a thermostat in the cooling system of an Air Camper powered by
a Model A engine? If so, what should the thermostat's "opening" temperature
be?
2. How does one "spec out" a radiator for this arrangement? That is: inside
diameter, wall thickness, arrangement, and number of cooling tubes, etc. I've
looked at a friends Model A automobile, and the radiator looks about 4 times
too big for a Pietenpol.
3. Can anyone recommend a source for a Pietenpol radiator?
Thanks very much for your inputs, folks.
John S
Message 4
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| Subject: | another fatal accident at my home airport |
seems like just a few weeks ago I was commenting on how my home airport seems to
have had a bad run of fatals in the last 2 yrs.
Another one went down on Saturday during the CAF's Veterans event. The aircraft
that wentdown was a small GA plane and I don't think it was involved in the
airshow.
It took off, stalled and spun in.
This is like the 8th fatality. We just had one a few weeks back. This is ridiculous.
Falcon Field is now setting the record for the most fatalities from
one airport.
There's no way in hell I'm making my first flights there!
DJ
Message 5
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you could also use a turnbuckle with fork end. I've had good success with buying
shackles on ebay.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hill
To: pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
How many builders have used 3/32" cable instead of 1/8" for the wing drag wires?
It would save a lot of weight and the rating of 3/32 is 920 lbs breaking strength
(for stainless). Isn't this more than adequate?
On another topic, why does there seem to be only one company that makes cable
shackles? ACS&S has had them on back order for a year with no end in sight. The
only way I can see to get around this is to use swaged forked cable ends and
use a clevis pin for attachment to the metal wing tab.
Jeff in TX
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now! Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: another fatal accident at my home airport |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
DJ,
I dont think has nothing to do with your airport or aviation itself...
We discused this in our Clubs hangar talk a few weekends ago in the
evening. We concluded that the main thing about flying accidents is
ALL OF US pilots attitide. The more hours we have flying the less
atention we have to flying (and preflying).
One thing we thought that contributes a lot are modern cars: They are
more "automatic" every year. Now you can start them with the remote
control, lights go on and off by itselfs, with this computers systems
and great oils (lots of miles betwen changes) is less, or maybe none,
the mantainance we have to do to them... practically is get in your
car, check the fuel level, look at the mirror and drive.
Then when we get into our planes, we tend to do the same automatically,
Some pilots forget to follow their writen check lists.
This is what we thought... Maybe is not all true but can be a cause.
I will prayer to the pilot and his family next Sunday...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com> wrote:
> seems like just a few weeks ago I was commenting on how my home
> airport seems to have had a bad run of fatals in the last 2 yrs.
>
> Another one went down on Saturday during the CAF's Veterans event.
> The aircraft that wentdown was a small GA plane and I don't think it
> was involved in the airshow.
>
> It took off, stalled and spun in.
>
> This is like the 8th fatality. We just had one a few weeks back.
> This is ridiculous. Falcon Field is now setting the record for the
> most fatalities from one airport.
>
> There's no way in hell I'm making my first flights there!
>
> DJ
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 7
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Jeff in Texass, this is Corky in La,
I will probably get much negative feed back from the puristists but this
shackle problem was passed on to me from Joe C and it works well. Go to Home
Depot, in the cable section and you will find some fairleads packaged on cards.
Buy
the 1/2 in size. Take home and vice the round part, straighten out the two
ears and you have a two perfect schackles for about $1.50. They are stainless
steel and strong with 3/16 holes. Try a strength test to convince yourself. You
will find that you can fly all over Texass without losing a wing.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: another fatal accident at my home airport |
Please tell us where is Falcon field
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: another fatal accident at my home airport |
FFZ is the identifier. It's about 1 mile north of my house. That's where I hangar
my Grumman Cheetah. Too bad the hangar won't fit both the Cheetah and the
Aircamper because I'm having a major crisis in finding a hangar at Falcon.
There's a 7 year waiting list.... but that's another story.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: another fatal accident at my home airport
Please tell us where is Falcon field
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Thanks for that tip. You say they are called
fairleads? "Vice the round part?" I'll go check out
Home Depot soon. Again, thanks for the tip.
Doc
--- Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
> Jeff in Texass, this is Corky in La,
>
> I will probably get much negative feed back from the
> puristists but this
> shackle problem was passed on to me from Joe C and
> it works well. Go to Home
> Depot, in the cable section and you will find some
> fairleads packaged on cards. Buy
> the 1/2 in size. Take home and vice the round part,
> straighten out the two
> ears and you have a two perfect schackles for about
> $1.50. They are stainless
> steel and strong with 3/16 holes. Try a strength
> test to convince yourself. You
> will find that you can fly all over Texass without
> losing a wing.
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: how many yards of covering? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
Thanks DJ, Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
> using generic uncertified 2.7oz. Dacron and Polyfiber/Stits process.
>
> Will be starting covering of the tail surfaces in the next week or 2
>
> DJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jimboyer@direcway.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
> >
> > DJ,
> >
> > What fabric and what method are you using? Thanks, Jim
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
> > Date: Sunday, November 7, 2004 2:32 pm
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
> >
> > > nevermind... I just went ahead and ordered 42 yds. I figure
> that
> > > ought do it.
> > >
> > > I also bought all the chemicals to bring it up to the "silver"
> > > stage. Freakin expensive! $1600 for fabric and chemicals.
> > > probably be another $1000 for color coat.... sheeesh!
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: DJ Vegh
> > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:59 AM
> > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: how many yards of covering?
> > >
> > >
> > > about how many yards of covering does a Piet require?
> > >
> > > DJ
> > >
> > > _
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> =====================================================================
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling systems for Model A Piets |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
John, Ken Perkins gave me the name o Forrest Loveley.
His email is ftloveley@aol.com. I wrote him and he
does make radiators for this installation but needed
an order for about six radiators to do a run of them.
I want one, but I don't know how many others there are
who also want one. If you contact him, tell him I'll
take one too.
Doc
--- john s <smoyer98@snip.net> wrote:
> 1. Should I use a thermostat in the cooling system
> of an Air Camper powered by a Model A engine? If
> so, what should the thermostat's "opening"
> temperature be?
> 2. How does one "spec out" a radiator for this
> arrangement? That is: inside diameter, wall
> thickness, arrangement, and number of cooling tubes,
> etc. I've looked at a friends Model A automobile,
> and the radiator looks about 4 times too big for a
> Pietenpol.
> 3. Can anyone recommend a source for a Pietenpol
> radiator?
> Thanks very much for your inputs, folks.
> John S
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 13
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I used 3/32" it does save weight. With all the cross bracing it's plenty.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hill
To: pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jeff Hill"
How many builders have used 3/32" cable instead of 1/8" for the wing drag wires?
It would save a lot of weight and the rating of 3/32 is 920 lbs breaking strength
(for stainless). Isn't this more than adequate?
On another topic, why does there seem to be only one company that makes cable
shackles? ACS&S has had them on back order for a year with no end in sight. The
only way I can see to get around this is to use swaged forked cable ends and
use a clevis pin for attachment to the metal wing tab.
Jeff in TX
Find the music you love on MSN Music. Start downloading now! Forums. http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Galen, here's a pair of messages from the archives., Dec 96.
I believe some are flying now with these. If you want more
input (much more!) go to the search link at the bottom of any
message and put "shackle" into the search window.
Clif
John, and others.
Your description obout the roller links is just what I did too. I
went down to the local bearing supply house with a piece of cable I
had put an eye into to see how things sized up. I came out with to
very acceptable links. I choose two sizes. I use the RS41 rated
average strength of 2640lbs for the control linkages such as aileron
controls, and the RS50 (7050lbs, way overkill I know) for the flying
wire to structure connection. The pins on the RS50 are just larger
than 3/16" in diameter. From the Aircraft Spruce Catalog 1/8"
stainless cable load rating is 1790lbs and the AN115 -21 ($3.85) shackle is
2100lbs. I feel comfortable with using these links. If you use the
RS41 in a cable to cable connection it does not need any shims
(washers) The RS50 is much bigger and I used washers as shims to
keep the loads straight like John. For the RS41's I paid $.55 and
the RS50's were a whopping $.70 each.
Stevee
> Steve,
>
> Here is a shot at a reply.
>
> I have incorporated a number of moter-sickle chain master links in my ship
in
> leiu of shackles. The ones I have used are a 420. If I remember
correctly,
> they are rated at 4200 lbs per the moter-sickle people's books. In other
> words they are much stronger than shackles. They cost about a buck or a
buck
> and a dime compared to the 4 to 6 bucks the shackles cost.
>
> The only drawback I have seen is that they are not quite shaped perfectly
for
> the job. These look a little screwy if they are pulled at an angle rather
> than in a straight line. This is probably not a serious problem. I have
put
> a few AN flat washers on the link to kind of shim out some of the space.
>
> What do y'all think about this? It would be interesting to hear some more
> discussion.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Galen Hutcheson" <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag wires
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson
<wacopitts@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks for that tip. You say they are called
> fairleads? "Vice the round part?" I'll go check out
> Home Depot soon. Again, thanks for the tip.
>
> Doc
> --- Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Jeff in Texass, this is Corky in La,
> >
> > I will probably get much negative feed back from the
> > puristists but this
> > shackle problem was passed on to me from Joe C and
> > it works well. Go to Home
> > Depot, in the cable section and you will find some
> > fairleads packaged on cards. Buy
> > the 1/2 in size. Take home and vice the round part,
> > straighten out the two
> > ears and you have a two perfect schackles for about
> > $1.50. They are stainless
> > steel and strong with 3/16 holes. Try a strength
> > test to convince yourself. You
> > will find that you can fly all over Texass without
> > losing a wing.
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Hi Clif,
Thanks for those two tips from the archives. I had
heard something about motor cycle chain master links
before but had not had a chance to check them out. I
agree with those who find suitable substitutes for the
overpriced aircraft hardware. Sometimes it is easy to
forget that BHP designed this airplane to be built
from the hardware store and lumber yard. Otherwise
we could all be building RV-6's :0). I do appreciate
these tips and will pass any on that I may happen
onto. Thanks.
Doc
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