Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Jim Markle)
2. 07:07 AM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Phillips, Jack)
3. 07:36 AM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Jim Markle)
4. 08:27 AM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Phillips, Jack)
5. 08:46 AM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Galen Hutcheson)
6. 12:24 PM - Re: Wire Wheel info (alexms1@comcast.net)
7. 01:14 PM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Phillips, Jack)
8. 06:28 PM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Rcaprd@aol.com)
9. 07:21 PM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Jack Phillips)
10. 09:53 PM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Mike Whaley)
11. 10:53 PM - Re: Wire Wheel info (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel info |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Yeah, the cost is pretty horrible! But every time I think about all that mass
landing on those wheels with my rear end sitting on it.....then it's not so bad.....
:-)
Well, yeah, it's STILL bad! Oh well......
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Hey those wheels looked great Jim...but when I got a
look at the invoice...OUCH! But they sure are
beautiful.
Doc
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Jim,
Your costs look pretty comparable to mine from Buchanan's. Why did you
make 4 wheels? Perhaps those that thought the costs were horrible
thought this was for one pair of wheels, not two.
I can tell you that my wheels have already had to withstand some
bone-jarring landings, and they handled 'em just fine. I can also tell
from the position of your brake calipers that your brakes won't be any
more effective than mine - just barely able to hold it for a runup.
They quit putting big wheels on airplanes about the time they started
using brakes. It takes a lot of braking torque to stop a wheel of that
diameter.
Jack Phillips
I flew NX899JP this weekend in 49 F temperature - Brrr!!
-----Original Message-----
Yeah, the cost is pretty horrible! But every time I think about all
that mass landing on those wheels with my rear end sitting on
it.....then it's not so bad..... :-)
Well, yeah, it's STILL bad! Oh well......
jm
Message 3
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says these brakes
provide "brake torque of 4800 in lbs with 150# of lever pull force appliled
on a 10" disc"......I'm using an 8" disc but could easily make it 10"....
Actually, it might not be that good for ME to have a lot of braking power! I'm
just a bit nervous about the whole brake/tail dragger thing....hey, as long as
it keeps me from running into that fuel island or those people....
And I don't EVEN want to hear any comments about flying in "cold weather"....hey
YOU FLEW!!! I'm still envious.....
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Jim,
Your costs look pretty comparable to mine from Buchanan's. Why did you
make 4 wheels? Perhaps those that thought the costs were horrible
thought this was for one pair of wheels, not two.
I can tell you that my wheels have already had to withstand some
bone-jarring landings, and they handled 'em just fine. I can also tell
from the position of your brake calipers that your brakes won't be any
more effective than mine - just barely able to hold it for a runup.
They quit putting big wheels on airplanes about the time they started
using brakes. It takes a lot of braking torque to stop a wheel of that
diameter.
Jack Phillips
I flew NX899JP this weekend in 49 F temperature - Brrr!!
-----Original Message-----
Yeah, the cost is pretty horrible! But every time I think about all
that mass landing on those wheels with my rear end sitting on
it.....then it's not so bad..... :-)
Well, yeah, it's STILL bad! Oh well......
jm
Message 4
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <jphillip@alarismed.com>
Going from 8" discs to 10" discs would increase your braking force by
25%. Are you using a hand lever or foot pedals for your brakes? 150
lbs is a lot of force to be generating, unless the pedals are really
well placed. You will need a pretty strong seat back to resist that
kind of pushing, too.
I have 8" Cleveland disc brakes, with Matco master cylinders mounted as
heel brakes. As I said, I can hold it for a run-up at 1500 RPM, ON
GRASS. On pavement I have to do sort of a "rolling run-up". My wheels
are 3.00 x 21. Slowing down after landing, even on pavement, is not a
problem. I have a 4" tailwheel and when I pull back hard on the stick,
it pushes that little tailwheel down pretty hard and it acts much like a
tailskid. Mostly I use the brakes for slow speed maneuvering and
parking, and for the run-up and starting.
I wouldn't worry too much about over-braking this taildragger. My tail
weight is pretty light (about 30 lbs, with the plane empty) but with my
big butt in the back seat and the marginally effective brakes,
nose-overs are not really a worry. You can figure a motorcycle weighs
less than the gross weight of a Piet by a considerable margin, yet they
typically have discs 10" to 12" in diameter.
One other point about the big wheels - you need BIG chocks to hold them.
My usual technique for starting it if I'm alone is to chock it with a
couple of blocks of 6"x6" pine, prop the engine, get it to idling as
slowly as I can, then replace the 6x6's with a couple of 2 x 4' blocks,
which will just barely keep it still at idle. I climb in the cockpit,
get my seatbelt and helmet and goggles on, then just goose the throttle
and it hops over the 2x4's as easy as you please!. Note that most FBO
chocks are made of 2x4's, so I'm already planning to make a lightweight
set of tall chocks that I can carry with me when I go air-camping.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle@mindspring.com]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says
these brakes provide "brake torque of 4800 in lbs with 150# of lever
pull force appliled on a 10" disc"......I'm using an 8" disc but could
easily make it 10"....
Actually, it might not be that good for ME to have a lot of braking
power! I'm just a bit nervous about the whole brake/tail dragger
thing....hey, as long as it keeps me from running into that fuel island
or those people....
And I don't EVEN want to hear any comments about flying in "cold
weather"....hey YOU FLEW!!! I'm still envious.....
JM
Message 5
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
Jim,
For years I've used a tail hook, like you pull gliders
or banners with, for ease in starting a hand prop
airplane. You simply attach a small rope to any
tiedown, start your engine, climb into the cockpit and
pull the hook release handle and off you go. They
aren't all that expensive and are relatively light.
They sure make hand starting an airplane safe and
easy. I'm installing one in my project.
Doc
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Message 6
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Jack,
I will be using the same size wheels and straight axle. How far is your axle from
the firewall? I will have the same braking system as Mike Cuy. I have a
Corvair engine that is ready to mount and run. I have it on a test stand and
soon as I get the prop I will start a breaking in on the test stand.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
>
> Going from 8" discs to 10" discs would increase your braking force by
> 25%. Are you using a hand lever or foot pedals for your brakes? 150
> lbs is a lot of force to be generating, unless the pedals are really
> well placed. You will need a pretty strong seat back to resist that
> kind of pushing, too.
>
> I have 8" Cleveland disc brakes, with Matco master cylinders mounted as
> heel brakes. As I said, I can hold it for a run-up at 1500 RPM, ON
> GRASS. On pavement I have to do sort of a "rolling run-up". My wheels
> are 3.00 x 21. Slowing down after landing, even on pavement, is not a
> problem. I have a 4" tailwheel and when I pull back hard on the stick,
> it pushes that little tailwheel down pretty hard and it acts much like a
> tailskid. Mostly I use the brakes for slow speed maneuvering and
> parking, and for the run-up and starting.
>
> I wouldn't worry too much about over-braking this taildragger. My tail
> weight is pretty light (about 30 lbs, with the plane empty) but with my
> big butt in the back seat and the marginally effective brakes,
> nose-overs are not really a worry. You can figure a motorcycle weighs
> less than the gross weight of a Piet by a considerable margin, yet they
> typically have discs 10" to 12" in diameter.
>
> One other point about the big wheels - you need BIG chocks to hold them.
> My usual technique for starting it if I'm alone is to chock it with a
> couple of blocks of 6"x6" pine, prop the engine, get it to idling as
> slowly as I can, then replace the 6x6's with a couple of 2 x 4' blocks,
> which will just barely keep it still at idle. I climb in the cockpit,
> get my seatbelt and helmet and goggles on, then just goose the throttle
> and it hops over the 2x4's as easy as you please!. Note that most FBO
> chocks are made of 2x4's, so I'm already planning to make a lightweight
> set of tall chocks that I can carry with me when I go air-camping.
>
> Jack
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:37 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
>
>
>
> Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
>
> Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says
> these brakes provide "brake torque of 4800 in lbs with 150# of lever
> pull force appliled on a 10" disc"......I'm using an 8" disc but could
> easily make it 10"....
>
> Actually, it might not be that good for ME to have a lot of braking
> power! I'm just a bit nervous about the whole brake/tail dragger
> thing....hey, as long as it keeps me from running into that fuel island
> or those people....
>
> And I don't EVEN want to hear any comments about flying in "cold
> weather"....hey YOU FLEW!!! I'm still envious.....
>
> JM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jack,
I will be using the same size wheels and straight axle. How far is your axle from
the firewall? I will have the same braking system as Mike Cuy. I have a Corvair
engine that is ready to mount and run. I have it on a test stand and soon
as I get the prop I will start a breaking in on the test stand.
Alex Sloan
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <JPHILLIP@ALARISMED.COM>
Going from 8" discs to 10" discs would increase your braking force by
25%. Are you using a hand lever or foot pedals for your brakes? 150
lbs is a lot of force to be generating, unless the pedals are really
well placed. You will need a pretty strong seat back to resist that
kind of pushing, too.
I have 8" Cleveland disc brakes, with Matco master cylinders mounted as
heel brakes. As I said, I can hold it for a run-up at 1500 RPM, ON
GRASS. On pavement I have to do sort of a "rolling run-up". My wheels
are 3.00 x 21. Slowing down after landing, even on pavement, is not a
problem. I have a 4" tailwheel and when I pull back hard on the stick,
&
gt; it pushes that little tailwheel down pretty hard and it acts much like a
tailskid. Mostly I use the brakes for slow speed maneuvering and
parking, and for the run-up and starting.
I wouldn't worry too much about over-braking this taildragger. My tail
weight is pretty light (about 30 lbs, with the plane empty) but with my
big butt in the back seat and the marginally effective brakes,
nose-overs are not really a worry. You can figure a motorcycle weighs
less than the gross weight of a Piet by a considerable margin, yet they
typically have discs 10" to 12" in diameter.
One other point about the big wheels - you need BIG chocks to hold them.
My usual technique for starting it if I'm alone is to chock it with a
couple of blocks of 6"x6" pine, prop the engine, get it to idling as
slowly as I can, then replace the 6x6's with a couple of 2 x 4' blocks, <B
R> which will just barely keep it still at idle. I climb in the cockpit,
get my seatbelt and helmet and goggles on, then just goose the throttle
and it hops over the 2x4's as easy as you please!. Note that most FBO
chocks are made of 2x4's, so I'm already planning to make a lightweight
set of tall chocks that I can carry with me when I go air-camping.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle [mailto:jim_markle@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:37 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
-- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
<JIM_MARKLE@MINDSPRING.COM>
Yeah, that price was for 2 sets. Only one set is for me.
Well, I'm curious about what size disc you used. The manufacturer says
these brakes provide "brake tor
Message 7
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Hi Alex,
My axle is 19.5" aft of the firewall. I also used Mike Cuy's
arrangement, at least as far as the guide pins goes. He used mechanical
brakes, from a go-kart, I believe. I also used his method of wrapping
and securing the bungee cords for the axle.
The guide pins to prevent axle rotation during braking work very well.
The axle moves around quite a bit - much more than I would have guessed.
With me in the airplane the axle rides about an inch above the V blocks
at the ends of the struts, and as I taxi it over a fairly smooth grass
runway it moves up and down about another inch. The plane has a pretty
smooth ride and you don't tend to feel every little bump because there
is no direct connection to the axle and wheels, just that soft
connection through the bungee cords. Most other types of landing gear
have a direct structure connecting the wheel to the airframe, although
that structure has some flexure built into it (like the gear of a Cub,
or the spring steel gear on a Cessna or an RV).
Mike's mechanical brakes work every bit as well as my hydraulic aircraft
brakes, and probably don't leak brake fluid all over his floorboards
like mine did.
I think you'll be very happy with the ground handling of the airplane
with this gear. It tracks absolutely straight and true. From a ground
handling viewpoint, this is the easiest taildragger I have ever flown,
primarily due to the tracking of the main gear and the powerful rudder.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: alexms1@comcast.net [mailto:alexms1@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Jack,
I will be using the same size wheels and straight axle. How far is your
axle from the firewall? I will have the same braking system as Mike
Cuy. I have a Corvair engine that is ready to mount and run. I have it
on a test stand and soon as I get the prop I will start a breaking in on
the test stand.
Alex Sloan
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel info |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/04 3:15:46 PM Central Standard Time,
jphillip@alarismed.com writes:
<< With me in the airplane the axle rides about an inch above the V blocks
at the ends of the struts >>
Jack,
It's really great to hear you're doing well in your flight test period.
However, I'm curious if you have done any crosswind taxi, with over 3/4 a sock
of
wind ? Did your upwind wing tend to stay considerably higher than the
downwind wing ? It seems to me that your bunji's are too loose. That's the problem
I had with the split gear bunji's...I could never get them tight enough. I
now have spring gear on the split axle, and she handles like a dream. Ask Mike
Cuy about crosswind taxiing.
Chuck G.
Message 9
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Hi Chuck,
I thought they might be too loose, but I checked with Mike Cuy and he said
it sounds about right. With the plane empty there is a gap of about 1/4"
between the axle and the V blocks. Mike said that was what BHP recommended.
Besides, that's about as tight as I can get them.
The most wind I've flown in so far was a couple of weeks ago when it was
blowing 12 knots with gusts to 20. It was straight down the runway, but I
did have to taxi across it a couple of times. Didn't seem to be a problem.
I'm not sure I would notice a little bit of lean due to wind, becasue my
hangar is down a slope from the runway and I have to taxiacross that slope
to get up on the runway. It always feels about like I'm gonna turn over.
I'm getting used to it, but it sure got my attention the first few times I
did it.
Tomorrow's supposed to be 63 F with clear skies and no wind. I'm gonna skip
out of work early and try to put another hour on it.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Jack,
It's really great to hear you're doing well in your flight test period.
However, I'm curious if you have done any crosswind taxi, with over 3/4 a
sock of
wind ? Did your upwind wing tend to stay considerably higher than the
downwind wing ? It seems to me that your bunji's are too loose. That's the
problem
I had with the split gear bunji's...I could never get them tight enough. I
now have spring gear on the split axle, and she handles like a dream. Ask
Mike
Cuy about crosswind taxiing.
Chuck G.
Message 10
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
> Tomorrow's supposed to be 63 F with clear skies and no wind. I'm gonna
skip
> out of work early and try to put another hour on it.
Now, there's a guy who knows what priorities are! :)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheel info |
Jack,
How far aft of the wing LE?
Clif
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheel info
Hi Alex,
My axle is 19.5" aft of the firewall. I also used Mike Cuy's arrangement, at
least as far as the guide pins goes. He used mechanical brakes, from a go-kart,
I believe. I also used his method of wrapping and securing the bungee cords
for the axle.
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