Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 11/30/04


Total Messages Posted: 30



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:21 AM - More Lister Comments - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!!! (Matt Dralle)
     2. 04:27 AM - Re: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. (Jim Lathrop)
     3. 04:42 AM - buoyancy (Jim Cooper)
     4. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (Jim Markle)
     5. 05:17 AM - Carb ice & mogas link (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
     6. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (del magsam)
     7. 06:52 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Rcaprd@aol.com)
     8. 07:02 AM - Re: Icarus Plummet (Rcaprd@aol.com)
     9. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    10. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    11. 07:33 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Ed Smith)
    12. 07:47 AM - Re: Carb Heat (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
    13. 07:51 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Ed Smith)
    14. 08:34 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Galen Hutcheson)
    15. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (Galen Hutcheson)
    16. 09:48 AM - Re: Varnishing Alternatives (Prange Larry J PSNS)
    17. 11:26 AM - Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa  (Michael D Cuy)
    18. 12:01 PM - Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa  (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
    19. 12:34 PM - Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa  (DJ Vegh)
    20. 12:49 PM - Re: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. (walt evans)
    21. 01:10 PM - Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa  (walt evans)
    22. 02:26 PM - Tail wire fittings (ADonJr@aol.com)
    23. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (alexms1@comcast.net)
    24. 05:20 PM - Re: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. (Bert Conoly)
    25. 06:17 PM - Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa (DOUGLAS BLACKBURN)
    26. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Varnishing Alternatives (del magsam)
    27. 08:13 PM - Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. (Ted Brousseau)
    28. 08:13 PM - House paint details (Ted Brousseau)
    29. 10:14 PM - Fw: House paint details (Clif Dawson)
    30. 10:42 PM - Re: House paint details (Gary Gower)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:21:18 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: More Lister Comments - Last Official Day of List Fund
    Raiser!!! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> Dear Listers, Well, its November 30th and that means two things... I'm 41 years old today - your sympathy is appreciated; and its the last official day of this year's List Fund Raiser!!! There is still plenty of time to make your Contribution to assure your place on the List of Contributors. Also, there are still lots of Contribution Gifts available including the very popular List Archive CDROM, Aircraft Fuel Tester, 24 Years of the RVAtor, and the very cool Kitlog Pro software! Below is another awesome set of comments from listers regarding how valuable the Lists are. Please read them over and make a Contribution to show your support for the Lists as well! The List Contribution web site can be found at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you!! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ------------ Even More of What Listers Are Saying... -------------- [The List] has been very helpful as I am building an RV7A. Stan B. Wonderful resource. Ralph C. I don't think I could be building my plane without the help I get from the list. Richard V. Invaluable to my Kolb building. Clay S. Best source of light aircraft electrical information any where. Dan O. Great service. Bjorn B. The lists are certainly worth it! Jim M. The Lists have been and continue to be a valuable tool. Jeff O. Exceptional service. Larry M. [The List] has been very helpful, informative and entertaining. Sterling B. Very helpful resource. Grant C. I don't think I could build my 601XL without the list. William G. Great service to the aviation community. John W. I have saved a ton of money in the operation of my [aircraft]. Lee P. Great contribution to builders everywhere! Tom E. [The List] is one of my nightly entertainments. Ross S. A great service and I hope you can keep it going! Bob O. My building support group. Richard V. Has made the operation of my aircraft much safer... Lee P. Now that I am close to completion of my [homebuilt], I look back and wonder how I could ever have made it this far without [the Lists]. Jeff O. I check the List twice daily at least. Anthony W. Thank you for taking care of us all with these most important Lists. William M. The List is very valuable to me... Red H. Great web site!! Robert H. Thanks for giving me another year of learning. Larry M. I don't think I'd have been able to get my project airborne without it! Grant C. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:27:45 AM PST US
    DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; b=FGy9/gdrCWWQAqpLXYSKlMvuX+cExPHZ64xC5k785ij7L+Y9Uh0xI77rOS9vYSrlrLTdFcD5nkwxN360oPrfCVYSkM1ApnFlZXLCl7jnZu33tj2IRmlMbne5CQUzbFLcgCD7qLBeXdZv93jwFT6UFPCpSFjFqq7/YC9QFffZwD4Message-ID: <c780e4d10411300427517915de@mail.gmail.com>
    From: Jim Lathrop <jlathrop@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved.
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Lathrop <jlathrop@gmail.com> I would bet on cable interference between the carb heat and the throttle cables. Pulling the carb heat also pulls out the throttle. Jim Lathrop (Piet wannabuilder) On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:25:44 -0500, Bert Conoly <bconoly@earthlink.net> wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> > > Speaking of carb heat. I've had a problem with my engine going dead when I > pull carb heat for several weeks. That is, during normal run-up (1500 RPM), > I switch to left mag, then right mag. All's fine and normal with 50-75 RPM > drop. Reach up and over the throttle, grab the carb heat and pull - - > engine drops to idle and nearly quits before I recover by pushing in carb > heat. I checked everything. The heat box is fine, SCAT tubing fine, damper > in the airbox works fine.... What's going on here? > > I asked 3 different A&Ps and they scratched their heads, too. Figured it > out today - so simple it's embarrasing. But it shows how easy it is to > fixate on something and miss the easy answer. > > Anybody want to guess what it turned out to be? > > Bert


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:42:01 AM PST US
    From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1@direcway.com>
    Subject: buoyancy
    Claude Corbett <Isablcorky@aol.com> Corky: For the record I goofed. Normal subsurface presure is not the weight of freshwater per gallon times the depth in feet. It is a function of the weight of fresh water, or .433, times the depth. I'm sure this must be very important information for Piet builders! Anyway, be sure you drain all the water out of the 82 gallon jugs before you try to float yours. You might add a few to make absolutely sure it won't sink. Cheers, Jim Cooper


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:11:42 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    THAT I'm not going to test. :-) I only have a couple varnished ribs on the spar since I realized after I varnished a couple that the bonding areas HAD to be bare (dust free) wood to bare wood....in other words....varnish AFTER mounting or protect the areas where an adhesive will need "teeth"...... ----- Original Message ----- From: alexms1@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing Alternatives My question is, if you varnish the ribs before mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to the spar on a varnished rib? AlexS -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > I did a little testing on that stuff and had the same result. Just make > sure you specify the one below. > > Clif > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing Alternatives > > > > > > I just rubbed an MEK soaked rag on a rib that I gave one coat of Helmsman > > Clear Gloss oil based indoor/outdoor Spar Urethane (in the green can, > cleans > > up with paint thinner)..... > > > > I probably coated that rib sometime early last year...it's been there for > a > > while.... > > > > No problem.....no lifting.....no sticky.....no gooey.....no nuttin..... > > > > Looks fine t


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:17:08 AM PST US
    From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
    Subject: Carb ice & mogas link
    http://www.magma.ca/~ggrabe/carbice.html I found the below text in the above link. Some folks only believe that 100LL is less susceptible to vapor lock, which it is, but it also is less prone to helping chill-down your carb. After WW2, my old man dusted cotton in the summer in a Champ, powered with a Continental 65. He mainly dusted cotton in the Rio Grande area here in Texas and in irrigated fields. The humidity levels are obviously higher over a wet cotton field on a warm summer day than what one might expect in a West Texas desert. These old pilots soon discovered that carb ice was a BIG problem when using MOGAS and was less of a problem when using avgas. (Sidebar... when Uncle Sam started selling off Stearman airplanes a few years after the war, these old cotton dusters switched to the bigger airplanes and abandoned airplanes powered by a 65 Continental.) Conditions conducive to carb-ice formation can occur without any prior warning and in situations that may seem inappropriate, creating a very hazardous condition that could leave the aircraft and pilot vulnerable to engine failure. This results in an extremely unreliable hit-and-miss diagnosis of the problem. This situation is further amplified when using MOGAS which is more susceptible to the formation of carb-ice due to its higher volatility (ice may form at OATs up to 68F or 20C higher than with AVGAS) Sterling Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch 5TA6, San Antonio Sectional


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:47:38 AM PST US
    From: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    The spars don't need to be bonded to the spar with adhesive. Toe nailed top and bottom is more than good. Many piets are flying with charlies ribs and this is his reccomendation. Del Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> wrote: THAT I'm not going to test. :-) I only have a couple varnished ribs on the spar since I realized after I varnished a couple that the bonding areas HAD to be bare (dust free) wood to bare wood....in other words....varnish AFTER mounting or protect the areas where an adhesive will need "teeth"...... ----- Original Message ----- From: alexms1@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing Alternatives My question is, if you varnish the ribs before mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to the spar on a varnished rib? AlexS -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > I did a little testing on that stuff and had the same result. Just make > sure you specify the one below. > > Clif > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing Alternatives > > > > > > I just rubbed an MEK soaked rag on a rib that I gave one coat of Helmsman > > Clear Gloss oil based indoor/outdoor Spar Urethane (in the green can, > cleans > > up with paint thinner)..... > > > > I probably coated that rib sometime early last year...it's been there for > a > > while.... > > > > No problem.....no lifting.....no sticky.....no gooey.....no nuttin..... > > > > Looks fine t Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ---------------------------------


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:52:55 AM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Carb Heat
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 11/29/04 8:39:06 AM Central Standard Time, luther@gci.net writes: << another way is to use some door spring and wrap the exhaust pipe before putting on your muff. >> This is how Bernard Pietenpol did the Model A engine, leaving the carb heat on, all the time. Again, the problem I see with this arragnement is that the spring will chafe on the exhaust pipe or muff, and the engine will ingest the rust. I still like the idea of having fins on the exhaust pipe, inside the muff, but not touching the muff. The fins would be maybe 1/4" high, and long enough where they couldn't get to the carb, even if they did come off. I was considering how to attach the fins, and I think braizing them on would be better than welding. Then - BAM !! It hit me...cover the whole pipe inside the muff with a light coat of brass. No more rust. Has anyone tried coating a piece of thin steel with brass (braizing) ? Chuck G.


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:02:17 AM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Icarus Plummet
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 11/29/04 9:31:49 PM Central Standard Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: << Meantime, just recall how many "experiments" Mr. Pietenpol endured as he developed this airplane. Forced landings, engine-outs, experiments, and teaching himself how to fly the airplane... >> It is my understanding that Mr. Pietenpol NEVER had an engine failure, or a forced landing. Amazing, huh ? Can anyone confirm this ? Chuck G.


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:05:31 AM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 11/29/04 11:04:18 PM Central Standard Time, alexms1@comcast.net writes: << My question is, if you varnish the ribs before mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to the spar on a varnished rib? >> The adhesive (T88 or whatever) WILL NOT hold the rib to the spar, if it has already been varnished. Varnish only after ALL the construction of the wing is totally complete, including the entire aileron portions. Chuck G.


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:10:51 AM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 11/30/04 7:48:19 AM Central Standard Time, farmerdel@rocketmail.com writes: << The spars don't need to be bonded to the spar with adhesive. Toe nailed top and bottom is more than good. Many piets are flying with charlies ribs and this is his reccomendation. >> There have been many early aircraft built this way, but with all the flexing, and twisting the wing sees in service, the nails must work loose, and it was before contemporary adhesives were developed. I believe T88 is far superior to nailing the ribs to the spars. Chuck G.


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:33:31 AM PST US
    From: Ed Smith <lesmith@roanokeinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Carb Heat
    3980A040E@comcast.net> Interesting thought. Reminds me of the cropdusters I used to work for. They mixed mogas and 100LL 50/50 for the Pratts. Ahh, round motors. At 10:17 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >Pieters, >My experience with mogas in my RV-3 was vapor lock. When it got near 72 >this occurred. Found that 5 gal. of avgas with 20 gal of mogas stopped >it. Never had carb ice with the Lycoming 0-320. >Alex S. > >-------------- Original message -------------- >I visited with my dad today and mentioned this rash of forced landings due >to carb ice. (My dad retired with 5 type ratings, 25,000 hours and an A&P >license and was a crop duster after WW2) I figure anyone who has flown >this long and lived to tell about it has some merit in their observations >about flying experience and things mechanical. > >Although he is 85, he remembers problems associated with carb ice as being >more prone to car gas and he said that 100LL tends to be safer than mogas >when humidity levels are high. He started mentioning something technical, >but I had to dodge a deer on the road and my mind wandered off the subject >matter... > >I wonder if the previous problems of the last few months with downed Piets >were associated with folks who were using mogas? L. Edward Smith Boones Mill, VA 24065 lesmith@roanokeinternet.com (preferred) lesmith_52@hotmail.com lesmith218@yahoo.com


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:47:49 AM PST US
    From: N321TX@wmconnect.com
    Subject: Re: Carb Heat
    I visited with Sky King again this morning. He advised that mogas isn't as highly refined as avgas. One of the culprits he said in mogas is there is something left over in the refining process akin to butadyrine (as in butane) and another component similar to those found in propane, and these "ingredients" are not found in avgas because avgas has gone through more refining stages. For anyone familiar with propane and butane (butane is hard to find these days BTW) the are very cold when released into the atmosphere, thus when they are present in very small quantities, they can accelerate and exacerbate icing in the venturi of a carb. Improvements in heat muffs is a must but using avgas, or at least a mixture of it with mogas gives you an advantage over straight use of mogas.


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:51:17 AM PST US
    From: Ed Smith <lesmith@roanokeinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Carb Heat
    <009601c4d692$7dbd3e20$4e705118@dawsonaviation> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ed Smith <lesmith@roanokeinternet.com> Wrapping the pipes with springs or such doesn't really give the desired effect to the degree that we need. Two reasons: 1. The contact area with the pipes is miniscule to allow for heat transfer. 2. Contact is dependant on tension of the "spring" to maintain contact with the pipes affecting heat transfer. The fins would provide surface area, baffle the air to slow it for heat transfer, and welded to the stacks, would allow for efficient heat transfer. They do not have to encircle the pipes. Just protrude in between the "Y" of the pipes enclosed by the muff (assuming your using the 2 into 1 stacks on each side). Leaving an opening at the top for inlet air and tapping off the lower inboard baffle with scat tubing to the heat plenum should provide for sufficient heating of the inlet air. Something to keep in mind, at low power settings (or during ice accumulation, same thing) you will not have a great deal of heat in the pipes, usually when ice can be a concern, so I doubt you can over do the addition of heat to the carb short of causing detonation. In this case, moderate the heat with the position of the carb heat control. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just remember, carb heat air is almost always unfiltered, so close that thing during ground ops as much as possible to reduce engine wear. At 11:10 PM 11/29/2004, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> > >So now we know that scrub pads don't work! I've now erased >that stuff out of my muff drawings. > >If you want to go the door spring route it might be better to go >to your local potter's supply and check out the nichrome element >coils used in electric kilns, expensive but virtually indestructible >at exhaust temps. You could also use the coils out of older driers >like Speed Queen but the alloy is not as tough although still good >into the light orange heat range. > >Clif > L. Edward Smith Boones Mill, VA 24065 lesmith@roanokeinternet.com (preferred) lesmith_52@hotmail.com lesmith218@yahoo.com


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:34:10 AM PST US
    DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=oujkEBUesD2sdDncagVhdLkUHiZrbprr9cUsF3hxh+g7kS3kj6TC8hqxM4XiX3bGNbKQIPZKnwJPzEf5Eq9BlYbWzhUOl3ePLtou2jlJHOrIqxnQx5vAOHttWnPUo9+mzgdmUjM+oLkZVQNzlvN9Ld252CEnQtsPY5ESBtK+ogo= ;
    From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Carb Heat
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com> Hello Gang, I have flown behind many C-85's and 0200's and rarely had any problems with carb ice, even in icing conditions, burning auto-gas. I always mixed Marvel Mystery oil in the gas (as well as the oil). I don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, I'm just throwing this out for consideration. I would think that the oil would affect the freezing point of water and might have a positive affect. I agree, carb ice has always been a thorn in aviation's side. Doc >


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:38:32 AM PST US
    DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Ls50TCFKtvPYCpH1VBmWpM3zmIuBlKsXn1QFIuq8PhpjJNt8gOawGHm737zTkF9bvI1FTg2XsDcpeAM63vpUPkf3W6lViGsImh4p1a7vTndn3f6noAsjpX49jArWYACZ2OunAJfTsDAgxuXmxl5wTRTyN5Ai5MbavBU+gfZIYPc= ;
    From: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <wacopitts@yahoo.com> This is only a suggestion, you can mask the area where you wish to glue and varnish the rest. I have done this on other parts of the wood work. Doc --- del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com> wrote: > The spars don't need to be bonded to the spar with > adhesive. Toe nailed top and bottom is more than > good. Many piets are flying with charlies ribs and > this is his reccomendation. > Del > > Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> wrote: > THAT I'm not going to test. :-) I only have a > couple varnished ribs on the spar since I realized > after I varnished a couple that the bonding areas > HAD to be bare (dust free) wood to bare wood....in > other words....varnish AFTER mounting or protect the > areas where an adhesive will need "teeth"...... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: alexms1@comcast.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:03 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing > Alternatives > > > My question is, if you varnish the ribs before > mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to > the spar on a varnished rib? > AlexS > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > > > I did a little testing on that stuff and had the > same result. Just make > > sure you specify the one below. > > > > Clif > > > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing > Alternatives > > > > > > > > > > I just rubbed an MEK soaked rag on a rib that I > gave one coat of Helmsman > > > Clear Gloss oil based indoor/outdoor Spar > Urethane (in the green can, > > cleans > > > up with paint thinner)..... > > > > > > I probably coated that rib sometime early last > year...it's been there for > > a > > > while.... > > > > > > No problem.....no lifting.....no sticky.....no > gooey.....no nuttin..... > > > > > > Looks fine t > > Del-New Richmond, Wi > "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" > > ---------------------------------


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:48:05 AM PST US
    From: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil>
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel@psns.navy.mil> Thanks to all who weighed in on my varnishing question! Is this a great list or what? AlexS, Epoxy glues will produce a better bond to bare wood than to any slick surface, like varnish. If you want two pieces of wood to stick together, there should be nothing but glue in between them. ********** AlexS Wrote: My question is, if you varnish the ribs before mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to the spar on a varnished rib? Larry Prange - Slap'n on the Helmsman in the rain . . . NX1929A


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:26:59 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> DJ-- upon closer inspection of that airplane it's actually a single seat Pietenpol Scout. Mike C. At 03:59 PM 11/29/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> > >wow... look how long that engine mount is! > >I wonder how it performs > >DJ > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" ><Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 2:44 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa > > >>Well I'll be-----check this out ! >> >>http://www.ahasa.org.za/members_pics.htm >> >>and http://www.ahasa.org.za/ > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 12:01:50 PM PST US
    From: BARNSTMR@aol.com
    Subject: Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com It says "Sky Scout" on the tail...but I think it's an air camper. In one photo it appears that the front cockpit is covered. In another photo, the cover is removed. See what you think. http://www.ahasa.org.za/images/pietenpol4_lrg.jpg -- Terry B


    Message 19


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    Time: 12:34:46 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
    Subject: Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com> yeah I think your right. looks like a two holer DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > It says "Sky Scout" on the tail...but I think it's an air camper. In one photo it appears that the front cockpit is covered. In another photo, the cover is removed. See what you think. > > http://www.ahasa.org.za/images/pietenpol4_lrg.jpg > > -- > Terry B > >


    Message 20


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    Time: 12:49:48 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved.
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net> How about a mouse nest in the heat muff? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> > > Speaking of carb heat. I've had a problem with my engine going dead when I > pull carb heat for several weeks. That is, during normal run-up (1500 RPM), > I switch to left mag, then right mag. All's fine and normal with 50-75 RPM > drop. Reach up and over the throttle, grab the carb heat and pull - - > engine drops to idle and nearly quits before I recover by pushing in carb > heat. I checked everything. The heat box is fine, SCAT tubing fine, damper > in the airbox works fine.... What's going on here? > > I asked 3 different A&Ps and they scratched their heads, too. Figured it > out today - so simple it's embarrasing. But it shows how easy it is to > fixate on something and miss the easy answer. > > Anybody want to guess what it turned out to be? > > Bert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > > > Corky & Group-- A small item of BIG importance that some omit in the carb > > heat setup on Champ-type stacks > > is a sheet metal triangle that is fixed in between the "Y" of the exhaust > > stacks prior to the heat muff being installed. > > This triangle of metal forces the fresh air (from a scoop fixed to the > side > > of the muff) around the stacks and increases > > the 'travel time' of the air to make sure the temp. is up where you need > > it. A tab or three can be welded to the stacks > > to hold this triangle in place. Would not have known this had I not done > > annuals w/ my partner on our old Champ. > > I asked Joe what the plate/triangle was for and he explained. > > > > Jack-- many thanks are being given here for your safe return to mother > > earth and a repairable Pietenpol. > > > > Also I'm having concerns now about my big idea to keep the axle from > > turning under braking action. I know my axle is > > the same wall thickness as Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy as I pirated as much > > info/ideas from him as possible.....and it's a very > > thick wall. My guess is approximately 0.20-0.25" thick. > > > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 01:10:59 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <wbeevans@verizon.net> Don't think it's an AirCamper. Gear attaches much too forward. And don't think that "hole" is a front seat ,,,It's got cross bracing on both sides and the front. Kind of hard to get into. This is from seeing only one pic of the front. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > It says "Sky Scout" on the tail...but I think it's an air camper. In one photo it appears that the front cockpit is covered. In another photo, the cover is removed. See what you think. > > http://www.ahasa.org.za/images/pietenpol4_lrg.jpg > > -- > Terry B > >


    Message 22


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    Time: 02:26:48 PM PST US
    From: ADonJr@aol.com
    Subject: Tail wire fittings
    Hey, Group! Thank you, Ed for your response. After I sent the question to the group, I discovered that BHP used 16 gauge steel on the Skyscout, so the .080 should be plenty strong. I'd like to add my best wishes to Jack after his incident.


    Message 23


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    Time: 03:09:09 PM PST US
    From: alexms1@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    Del, Why would you NOT want to glue the ribs to the spars? Alex S. -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > This is only a suggestion, you can mask the area where > you wish to glue and varnish the rest. I have done > this on other parts of the wood work. > > Doc > --- del magsam wrote: > > > The spars don't need to be bonded to the spar with > > adhesive. Toe nailed top and bottom is more than > > good. Many piets are flying with charlies ribs and > > this is his reccomendation. > > Del > > > > Jim Markle wrote: > > THAT I'm not going to test. :-) I only have a > > couple varnished ribs on the spar since I realized > > after I varnished a couple that the bonding areas > > HAD to be bare (dust free) wood to bare wood....in > > other words....varnish AFTER mounting or protect the > > areas where an adhesive will need "teeth"...... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: alexms1@comcast.net > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:03 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing > > Alternatives > > > > > > My question is, if you varnish the ribs before > > mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to > > the spar on a varnished rib? > > AlexS > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > > > > > I did a little testing on that stuff and had the > > same result. Just make > > > sure you specify the one below. > > > > > > Clif > > > > > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing > > Alternatives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just rubbed an MEK soaked rag on a rib that I > > gave one coat of Helmsman > > > > Clear Gloss oil based indoor/outdoor Spar > > Urethane (in the green can, > > > cleans > > > > up with paint thinner)..... > > > > > > > > I probably coated that rib sometime early last > > year...it's been there for > > > a > > > > while.... > > > > > > > > No problem.....no lifting.....no sticky.....no > > gooey.....no nuttin..... > > > > > > > > Looks fine t > > > > Del-New Richmond, Wi > > "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" > > > > --------------------------------- > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Del, Why would you NOT want to glue the ribs to the spars? Alex S. -------------- Original message -------------- -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson <WACOPITTS@YAHOO.COM> This is only a suggestion, you can mask the area where you wish to glue and varnish the rest. I have done this on other parts of the wood work. Doc --- del magsam <FARMERDEL@ROCKETMAIL.COM>wrote: The spars don't need to be bonded to the spar with adhesive. Toe nailed top and bottom is more than good. Many piets are flying with charlies ribs and this is his reccomendation. Del Jim Markle <JIM_MARKLE@MINDSPRING.COM>wrote: THAT I'm not going to test. :-) I only have a couple varnished ribs on the spar since I realized after I varnished a couple that the bonding areas HAD to be bare (dust free) wood to bare wood....in other words....varnish AFTER mounting or protect the areas where an adhesive will need "teeth"...... ----- Original Message ----- From: alexms1@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing Alternatives My question is, if you varnish the ribs before mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to the spar on a varnished rib? AlexS -------------- Original message -------------- -- Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson I did a little testing on that stuff and had the same result. Just make &gt ; sure you specify the one below. Clif Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing Alternatives I just rubbed an MEK soaked rag on a rib that I gave one coat of Helmsman Clear Gloss oil based indoor/outdoor Spar Urethane (in the green can, cleans up with paint thinner)..... I probably coated that rib sometime early last year...it's been there for a while.... No problem.....no lifting.....no sticky.....no gooey.....no nuttin..... Looks fine t Del-New Richmond, Wi


    Message 24


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    Time: 05:20:03 PM PST US
    From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved.
    Bike-Mike and Markle guessed right.... Thanks for the e-mails.....Had several great guesses. All were very unusual but plausible. Interconnections between the throttle and carb heat cables, kinks in the SCAT tube, obstruction in the air box, improperly rigged cables, varmits in the heat muff,. pulling the wrong knob (mixture), ... The problem was simply that as I reached up and over the throttle, I would grab the carb heat knob with index and middle finger. When I pulled backward, my wrist would gently pull the throttle back. And it would drop back to idle. I would quickly push in the carb heat and it "came back" But actually it never went anywhere - other than to idle. I was so fixated on what the carb heat was doing to the engine, that I never felt the throttle moving. Moral to the story.... Try not to fixate on a problem. there's a reason for everything. Just think these problems through and logically figure them out. Bert (whose inspection is in 3 weeks- after 9 1/2 years building. Cross yer fingers!) )----- Original Message ----- From: N321TX@wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 12:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. Are you running Mogas or 100LL?


    Message 25


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    Time: 06:17:22 PM PST US
    From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <TWINBOOM@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <TWINBOOM@msn.com> Looks like the placement for the fuel cell> Doug & Elizabeth Blackburn Yucaipa California www.inlandsloperebels.com W W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782 www.flycorvair.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <BARNSTMR@aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A VW powered Piet ~in South Africa > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: BARNSTMR@aol.com > > It says "Sky Scout" on the tail...but I think it's an air camper. In one photo it appears that the front cockpit is covered. In another photo, the cover is removed. See what you think. > > http://www.ahasa.org.za/images/pietenpol4_lrg.jpg > > -- > Terry B > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 07:11:19 PM PST US
    From: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Varnishing Alternatives
    you get a much better varnish cover on the ribs by dipping them and letting them drip dry. The spar is easier to varnish without ribs on them and gets a better varnish cover also. many hours of work saved not having to hand brush all of those ribs. There is no structural advantage to adhere the ribs to the spars. I put in the wedges to fill up the total spar space in the ribs so there is no shear load on the toe nails. Del alexms1@comcast.net wrote: Del, Why would you NOT want to glue the ribs to the spars? Alex S. -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > This is only a suggestion, you can mask the area where > you wish to glue and varnish the rest. I have done > this on other parts of the wood work. > > Doc > --- del magsam wrote: > > > The spars don't need to be bonded to the spar with > > adhesive. Toe nailed top and bottom is more than > > good. Many piets are flying with charlies ribs and > > this is his reccomendation. > > Del > > > > Jim Markle wrote: > > THAT I'm not going to test. :-) I only have a > > couple varnished ribs on the spar since I realized > > after I varnished a couple that the bonding areas > > HAD to be bare (dust free) wood to bare wood....in > > other words....varnish AFTER mounting or protect the > > areas where an adhesive will need "teeth"...... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: alexms1@comcast.net > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 11:03 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing > > Alternatives > > > > > > My question is, if you varnish the ribs before > > mounting on the spar, will the glue hold the rib to > > the spar on a varnished rib? > > AlexS > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > > > > > I did a little testing on that stuff and had the > > same result. Just make > > > ; sure you specify the one below. > > > > > > Clif > > > > > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnishing > > Alternatives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just rubbed an MEK soaked rag on a rib that I > > gave one coat of Helmsman > > > > Clear Gloss oil based indoor/outdoor Spar > > Urethane (in the green can, > > > cleans > > > > up with paint thinner)..... > > > > > > > > I probably coated that rib sometime early last > > year...it's been there for > > > a > > > > while.... > > > > > > > > No problem.....no lifting.....no sticky.....no > > gooey.....no nuttin..... > > > > > > > > Looks fine t > > > > Del-New Richmond, Wi > Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ---------------------------------


    Message 27


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    Time: 08:13:57 PM PST US
    From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
    Subject: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved.
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net> Bert, I like the confused cables going to the mixture answer. But, you probably don't have a mixture control so I will go with a clogged filter of some sort. Ted > Time: 05:26:05 PM PST US > From: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Carb heat w/ 65 Continentals - Mystery Solved. > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bert Conoly" <bconoly@earthlink.net> > > Speaking of carb heat. I've had a problem with my engine going dead when I > pull carb heat for several weeks. That is, during normal run-up (1500 RPM), > I switch to left mag, then right mag. All's fine and normal with 50-75 RPM > drop. Reach up and over the throttle, grab the carb heat and pull - - > engine drops to idle and nearly quits before I recover by pushing in carb > heat. I checked everything. The heat box is fine, SCAT tubing fine, damper > in the airbox works fine.... What's going on here? > > I asked 3 different A&Ps and they scratched their heads, too. Figured it > out today - so simple it's embarrasing. But it shows how easy it is to > fixate on something and miss the easy answer. > > Anybody want to guess what it turned out to be? >


    Message 28


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    Time: 08:13:59 PM PST US
    From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net>
    Subject: House paint details
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979@naples.net> Dick N, I remember that you said you painted your plane with house paint. I don't remember that you gave a lot of details. If you did, just say so and I will look in the archives. If you didn't would you answer a couple of questions? Did you use any primer on the dacron, i.e., poly brush, or anything else? Did you spray? If so, did you have to thin much? Did you use any UV protection under it? Any platicizers added? Anything else you learned that would help someone following your lead? Thanks, Ted


    Message 29


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    Time: 10:14:34 PM PST US
    From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: House paint details
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: House paint details > Before Dick gets to answer, here's a couple of sites to > check out; > > http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/paintinguls.htm > > http://www.modelairplanenews.com/how_to/latex1.asp > > Clif > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > <nfn00979@naples.net> > > > > Dick N, > > > > I remember that you said you painted your plane with house paint. I don't > > remember that you gave a lot of details. If you did, just say so and I > will > > look in the archives. If you didn't would you answer a couple of > questions? > > > > Did you use any primer on the dacron, i.e., poly brush, or anything else? > > Did you spray? If so, did you have to thin much? Did you use any UV > > protection under it? Any platicizers added? Anything else you learned > that > > would help someone following your lead? > > > > Thanks, Ted > > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 10:42:45 PM PST US
    DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=QcraDelUktEn5w7u72GMvhOoMptQYM4lJPCION1a9meZb3fqZRDFab4t8pKN+F6TD1smOWAXaA/8JtQXRdob212VCKY1MkWcEqQThmDs+Or2caiD0RxuE1fvLhXDmbm076glRds17oQm04SOr1JZuWK5ips+4DQMmZU0Cg4MwL4= ;
    From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: House paint details
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com> Hello Ted, I also used this method and works GREAT!. I used this method in my Ladder Pou, Nothing needed but latex and is UV protectant by itself. I used the latex (semigloss) paint as final color (blue and yellow), but two other builders here used automotive paint (with a plastifier to prevent the paint from "braking") as final coat over the latex, looks like show room finish. I like the finish of my paint (well, what can I say? :-) The best latex paint to use (and still is very inexpensive) is the one with more than 10 years waranty, this has the more UV protection. 3 years now in my plane and still perfect finish like new. here is one link to my project: http://www.fly5k.org/MEM/GaryPouchel/GaryGower1.htm I also have a photo page in Yahoo with the full construction process, there I have several photos of the painting process but the address was changed by them and I have it at my work computer, with other links related: Tests in direct sun for several years, etc. Will send you the info tomorrow. Is your new Piet readt to cover? Congratulations. Saludos Gary Gower. --- Ted Brousseau <nfn00979@naples.net> wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ted Brousseau" > <nfn00979@naples.net> > > Dick N, > > I remember that you said you painted your plane with house paint. I > don't > remember that you gave a lot of details. If you did, just say so and > I will > look in the archives. If you didn't would you answer a couple of > questions? > > Did you use any primer on the dacron, i.e., poly brush, or anything > else? > Did you spray? If so, did you have to thin much? Did you use any UV > protection under it? Any platicizers added? Anything else you > learned that > would help someone following your lead? > > Thanks, Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________




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