Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Re: aircraft repairman (Phillips, Jack)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: aircraft repairman (N321TX@wmconnect.com)
3. 08:40 AM - Re: aircraft repairman (cgalley)
4. 10:46 AM - Re: aircraft repairman (walt evans)
5. 10:49 AM - Re: Torque Tube Rod (John Dilatush)
6. 11:12 AM - Fw: (no subject) (Isablcorky@aol.com)
7. 11:14 AM - Re: Torque Tube Rod (Phillips, Jack)
8. 02:34 PM - Re: Torque Tube Rod (John Dilatush)
9. 03:09 PM - Mountain Piet (John Dilatush)
10. 03:58 PM - repairman (Richard Navratil)
11. 04:11 PM - Re: Fw: (no subject) (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 06:31 PM - Re: Torque Tube (David Paulsen)
13. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Torque Tube (John Dilatush)
Message 1
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Subject: | aircraft repairman |
I got mine when the FAA inspector inspected the aircraft for the
airworthiness certificate. I had filled out the application befrehand
and he gave me the temporary certificate on the spot.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratil [mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
I don't recall seeing this subject discussed before. I have had my
application form for the Aircraft Repairman sitting around and finally
called about getting the rating. The examiner gave me an appointment
for next week and told me to bring in all logs and be prepaired to
discuss construction and that the oral interview should take about an
hour. Has anyone else had a similar going over? Do I just live in a
area with very strict standards?
Dick N
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman |
When I built my first airplane, an Avid Sportster, the FSDO guy came down,
spent 10 minutes looking at my jewel and my extensive logs and picture. He drove
off, I flew my bird and received my Repairman's Certificate in the mail about
90 days later without having to rub my tummy, pat my head and/or say the
alphabet backwards nor naming all 50 states in 20 seconds.
I think you have a horse's rear end giving you a double dose of grief.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman |
That's exactly the way it's supposed to work. The inspector conducts and interview
with the applicant in order to determine the applicant's level of knowledge
of the aircraft and it's construction and systems. Providing that the applicant
exhibits the proper level of knowledge, the certificate will be issued.
Pictures I believe are now a requirement.
If you get a certificate without showing some how that you did build and are competent
to maintain, then the inspector is being lazy and not doing a good job.
If he can't follow those regs, how good an inspection of your plane are you getting?
Is the plane really airworthy or has he just signed it off to get rid of
you? But some can tell if you built it and are capable at the time of the inspection.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: NEMuzzy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
I kept a photo log and web page of my construction process. (Make sure you have
a few pictures with yourself in it, doing the work!) Links to the pages were
included with the paperwork. There was also a day-by-day log for the first
half of the project (where you are making lots of parts).
The inspector stated that it was obvious that I did the work and was qualified
to get the repairman's certificate. He completed the paperwork for the repairnman's
certificate immediately following the airframe inspection, and the card
showed up a month or two later. You don't need the card until it comes time
for the condition inspection.
The concern is that there are people who have purchased projects that do not
have the complete skillset required to do a conditional inspection. If you have
reasonable documentation that you did the work, there should be no concerns.
If you have no documentation, they may be looking for enough demonstration
of knowledge about the building process.
-Norm
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
I don't recall seeing this subject discussed before. I have had my application
form for the Aircraft Repairman sitting around and finally called about
getting the rating. The examiner gave me an appointment for next week and told
me to bring in all logs and be prepaired to discuss construction and that the
oral interview should take about an hour. Has anyone else had a similar going
over? Do I just live in a area with very strict standards?
Dick N
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: aircraft repairman |
The guys aren't there to bust chops, they just have to be sure that you built it
and didn't just buy a project 99% done. The guy that I was given at the FAA
facility was a 777 inspector. Kind of laughed and said he usually did the "big
iron". So he had to go get the list of things required. Everything that I
had was good except the paper said I needed a building log which he took for
an itemized, daily log. I spent the next few weeks fabricating one from memory,reciepts,
and dated photos. Real pain in the neck to do.
When I returned back to the FAA, I was told at the desk that my "agent" was busy
and she would go get the "duty agent of the day". Another nice guy. When I
laid all my stuff on the table, he glanced at some pictures , some glue samples,
and some welding samples.
After some questions, he started to fill out the paperwork. NOT ONCE did he mention
the builders log laying in front of him. Go figure!
"Life is like a box of chocolates"
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: cgalley
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
That's exactly the way it's supposed to work. The inspector conducts and interview
with the applicant in order to determine the applicant's level of knowledge
of the aircraft and it's construction and systems. Providing that the applicant
exhibits the proper level of knowledge, the certificate will be issued.
Pictures I believe are now a requirement.
If you get a certificate without showing some how that you did build and are
competent to maintain, then the inspector is being lazy and not doing a good job.
If he can't follow those regs, how good an inspection of your plane are you getting?
Is the plane really airworthy or has he just signed it off to get rid
of you? But some can tell if you built it and are capable at the time of the inspection.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: NEMuzzy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
I kept a photo log and web page of my construction process. (Make sure you
have a few pictures with yourself in it, doing the work!) Links to the pages
were included with the paperwork. There was also a day-by-day log for the first
half of the project (where you are making lots of parts).
The inspector stated that it was obvious that I did the work and was qualified
to get the repairman's certificate. He completed the paperwork for the repairnman's
certificate immediately following the airframe inspection, and the
card showed up a month or two later. You don't need the card until it comes time
for the condition inspection.
The concern is that there are people who have purchased projects that do not
have the complete skillset required to do a conditional inspection. If you
have reasonable documentation that you did the work, there should be no concerns.
If you have no documentation, they may be looking for enough demonstration
of knowledge about the building process.
-Norm
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircraft repairman
I don't recall seeing this subject discussed before. I have had my application
form for the Aircraft Repairman sitting around and finally called about
getting the rating. The examiner gave me an appointment for next week and
told me to bring in all logs and be prepaired to discuss construction and that
the oral interview should take about an hour. Has anyone else had a similar
going over? Do I just live in a area with very strict standards?
Dick N
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Rod |
----- Original Message -----
From: David Paulsen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube Rod
Dave,
Pardon me for jumping into this discussion about how to keep the straight axle
from rotating when the brakes are applied.
May I suggest an alternative method of doing this so that the axle is free to
move in any direction without excessive strain on welded joints? I also believe
that the integrity of the axle is not compromised by cutting a hole through
it and I think this is a lighter solution to the problem.
I have attached a photo of the installation on my ex- "Mountain Piet". You just
weld a couple of 3" tabs on the top and bottom of the axle in the middle.
Do the same thing on the rear spreader bar. Now drill some 1/4" holes at the
top and bottom of the tabs to use Heim joints. Then connect the Heim joints
with a 1/2" round aluminum rod drilled and tapped for the 1/4-20 threads of the
Heim joints so that when when the whole thing is assembled you have a parallelogram
formed by the tabs and links.
The system works well. If I were to do it over again, the only change I would
make would be to use a rear spreader bar with a little thicker wall so that
it is not as apt to bend under loading.
Hope this is helpful in your decision.
John
Thanks Jack. Perhaps I will try to find two 8 inch pieces of pipe that can slip
tightly into my axle - position them so there's about 4 inches of pipe on
either side of the holes - and drill them through. This will double the thickness
of the axle in that critical area acting as reinforcement in case there is
a exceptionally hard landing.
Dave Paulsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: 'pietenpol-list@matronics.com'
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube Rod
Dave,
The guide pins don't have to be welded. However, just putting a hole through
the axle causes a stress concentration. My axle broke at the guide pin, but
my axle was only .120" wall. My new axle will be .188" wall, and I will have
it heat treated after welding to raise the yield strength to 105,000 psi, which
will make it about 50% stronger (and 8 lbs lighter) than a .25" wall axle
non-heat treated. I am also going to change the design of the guide pins to allow
the holes through the axle to be on the neutral axis so any stress concentrations
caused by the holes will not matter.
Jack Phillips
Slowly beginning to repair NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
Why does the bolt or rod that some of us have put though our straight though
axles have to be welded? I'm probably missing something obvious but I don't
know what. The rod can't jump out of the axle because there is a nut at the
bottom that will prevent it from coming up through the torque tube. Thanks.
Dave Paulsen
Message 6
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Subject: | Fwd: (no subject) |
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:17:06 AM Central Standard Time, JimNikls
writes:
Chuck, Thought you might get abit of comfort from the following "southern
philosophy"
Do not archive
Remember this motto to live by:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
From: JimNikls@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)
CliffGandy@aol.com, sam.burgess@rlhudson.com, WHC978@aol.com,
Isablcorky@aol.com, degenere@bellsouth.net, dick@dethloffinsurance.com,
REDet65@aol.com, ENHEND@aol.com, sunnyevans@sbcglobal.net,
jimgraham@iopener.net, jana_green@jamail-kolius.com,
herzog@Sport.rr.com, kmegill@yahoo.com, rekearneyjr@netzero.net,
marc.kerlin@usoncology.com, Risksis@aol.com, Cyndynick@aol.com,
ccpeavy@bellsouth.net, rhlehew@shaw.ca, Arkymar@aol.com,
OUBob47@cox.net, mark@hcm3.com, hvaughan@sport.rr.com,
jwwright@airmail.net
-------------------------------1102699026
Holiday Eating Tips
1. Avoid carrot sticks. Anyone who puts carrots on a holiday buffet table
knows nothing of the Christmas spirit. In fact, if you see carrots, leave
immediately. Go next door, where they're serving rum balls.
2. Drink as much eggnog as you can. And quickly. Like fine single-malt
scotch, it's rare. In fact, it's even rarer than single-malt scotch. You
can't find it any other time of year but now. So drink up! Who cares that
it has 10,000 calories in every sip? It's not as if you're going to turn
into an eggnog-aholic or something. It's a treat. Enjoy it. Have one for
me. Have two It's later than you think. It's Christmas!
3. If something comes with gravy, use it. That's the whole point of gravy.
Gravy does not stand alone. Pour it on. Make a volcano out of your mashed
potatoes. Fill it with gravy. Eat the volcano. Repeat.
4. As for mashed potatoes, always ask if they're made with skim milk or
whole milk. If it's skim, pass. Why bother? It's like buying a sports car
with an automatic transmission.
5. Do not have a snack before going to a party in an effort to control
your eating. The whole point of going to a Christmas party is to eat other
people's food for free. Lots of it. Hello?
6. Under no circumstances should you exercise between now and New Year's.
You can do that in January when you have nothing else to do. This is the
time for long naps, which you'll need after circling the buffet table
while carrying a 10-pound plate of food and that vat of eggnog.
7. If you come across something really good at a buffet table, like
frosted Christmas cookies in the shape and size of Santa, position
yourself near them and don't budge. Have as many as you can before
becoming the center of attention. They're like a beautiful pair of shoes.
If you leave them behind, you're never going to see them again.
8. Same for pies. Apple. Pumpkin. Mincemeat. Have a slice of each. Or, if
you don't like mincemeat, have two apples and one pumpkin. Always have
three. When else do you get to have more than one dessert? Labor Day?
9. Did someone mention fruitcake? Granted, it's loaded with the mandatory
celebratory calories, but avoid it at all cost. I mean, have some standards.
10. One final tip: If you don't feel terrible when you leave the party or
get up from the table, you haven't been paying attention.
Reread tips; start over, but hurry, January is just around the corner.
Remember this motto to live by:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
-------------------------------1102699026
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" nameGENERATOR>
<BODY idrole_body style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20Arial"
bottomMargin7 leftMargin7 topMargin7 rightMargin7><FONT idrole_document
faceArial color#000000 size2>
Holiday=20Eating
Tips
1. Avoid carrot sticks. Anyone who puts carrots on a holiday
buffet table
knows nothing of the Christmas spirit. In fact, if you see
carrots, leave
immediately. Go next door, where they're serving rum balls.
2. Drink as much eggnog as you can. And quickly. Like fine
single-malt
scotch, it's rare. In fact, it's even rarer than single-malt
scotch. You
can't find it any other time of year but now. So drink up! Who
cares that
it has 10,000 calories in every sip? It's not as if you're going
to turn
into an eggnog-aholic or something. It's a treat. Enjoy it. Have one
for
me. Have two It's later than you think. It's Christmas!
3.
If something comes with gravy, use it. That's the whole point of gravy.
Gravy does not stand alone. Pour it on. Make a volcano out of your mashed
potatoes. Fill it with gravy. Eat the volcano. Repeat.
4. As for
mashed potatoes, always ask if they're made with skim milk or
whole milk. If
it's skim, pass. Why bother? It's like buying a sports car
with an automatic
transmission.
5. Do not have a snack before going to a party in=20an
effort to control
your eating. The whole point of going to a Christmas party
is to eat other
people's food for free. Lots of it. Hello?
6.
Under no circumstances should you exercise between now and New Year's.
You
can do that in January when you have nothing else to do. This is the
time
for long naps, which you'll need after circling the buffet table
while
carrying a 10-pound plate of food and that vat of eggnog.
7. If=20you
come across something really good at a buffet table, like
frosted Christmas
cookies in the shape and size of Santa, position
yourself near them and
don't budge. Have as many as you can before
becoming the center of
attention. They're like a beautiful pair of shoes.
If you leave them behind,
you're never going to see them again.
8. Same for pies. Apple.
Pumpkin. Mincemeat. Have a slice of each. Or, if
you don't like mincemeat,
have two apples and one pumpkin. Always have
three. When else do you get to
have more than one dessert? Labor Day?
9. Did someone mention
fruitcake? Granted, it's loaded with the mandatory
celebratory calories, but
avoid it at all cost. I mean, have some standards.
10. One final
tip: If you don't feel terrible when you leave the party or
get up from=20the
table, you haven't been paying attention.
Reread tips; start over,
but hurry, January is just around the corner.
Remember this motto to
live by:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the
intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but
rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other,
body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a
ride!"
-------------------------------1102699026--
Message 7
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|
Neat idea, John. I haden't seen that one before. You actually probably
only need one arm on the spreader bar and one on the axle, not two. How
well does it hold the axle from shifting sideways?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Pardon me for jumping into this discussion about how to keep the
straight axle from rotating when the brakes are applied.
May I suggest an alternative method of doing this so that the axle is
free to move in any direction without excessive strain on welded joints?
I also believe that the integrity of the axle is not compromised by
cutting a hole through it and I think this is a lighter solution to the
problem.
I have attached a photo of the installation on my ex- "Mountain Piet".
You just weld a couple of 3" tabs on the top and bottom of the axle in
the middle. Do the same thing on the rear spreader bar. Now drill some
1/4" holes at the top and bottom of the tabs to use Heim joints. Then
connect the Heim joints with a 1/2" round aluminum rod drilled and
tapped for the 1/4-20 threads of the Heim joints so that when when the
whole thing is assembled you have a parallelogram formed by the tabs and
links.
The system works well. If I were to do it over again, the only change I
would make would be to use a rear spreader bar with a little thicker
wall so that it is not as apt to bend under loading.
Hope this is helpful in your decision.
John
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Torque Tube Rod |
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube Rod
Jack,
Actually you are right, however, I wanted to divide the load between one link
in compression and the other in tension. This is possible by adjusting each
link with the female threaded ends and lock nuts so that both will share the load.
Mr. Pietenpol just let the axle ride in the "V" angle of the landing gear struts
with out worrying about the side to side movement. This movement is pretty
well restrained by the bungee cords anyway. When I was first looking into building
a Piet, I asked an old timer this very question, and his answer was: "Hell,
I just kick the axle back to the center every so often!" Doesn't seem to
bother the takeoffs or landings if the axle has shifted slightly.
John
John
Neat idea, John. I haden't seen that one before. You actually probably only
need one arm on the spreader bar and one on the axle, not two. How well does
it hold the axle from shifting sideways?
Jack
-----Original Message-----
Pardon me for jumping into this discussion about how to keep the straight axle
from rotating when the brakes are applied.
May I suggest an alternative method of doing this so that the axle is free
to move in any direction without excessive strain on welded joints? I also believe
that the integrity of the axle is not compromised by cutting a hole through
it and I think this is a lighter solution to the problem.
I have attached a photo of the installation on my ex- "Mountain Piet". You
just weld a couple of 3" tabs on the top and bottom of the axle in the middle.
Do the same thing on the rear spreader bar. Now drill some 1/4" holes at the
top and bottom of the tabs to use Heim joints. Then connect the Heim joints
with a 1/2" round aluminum rod drilled and tapped for the 1/4-20 threads of
the Heim joints so that when when the whole thing is assembled you have a parallelogram
formed by the tabs and links.
The system works well. If I were to do it over again, the only change I would
make would be to use a rear spreader bar with a little thicker wall so that
it is not as apt to bend under loading.
Hope this is helpful in your decision.
John
Message 9
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Jack and Alex,
Since you are both interested in the axle restraining link I used, there are some other pictures of the axle and landing gear details on Oscar Zuniga's website at : http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
John
Message 10
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From the responses, it's obvious things are done differently around the country.
I don't expect that the FAA guy is doing anything but his job. I have a very
complete builders log and with the very thorough going over I got on my airworthieness
inspection with 2 inspectors at the same time, I am ready with a
complete operations manual.
I just hadn't heard comments on the list about things the inspector had asked for
but no one else had been told they need to write and operation manual either.
Dick N.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: (no subject) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
In a message dated 12/10/04 1:13:04 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky@aol.com writes:
<< Chuck, Thought you might get abit of comfort from the following "southern
philosophy"
Do not archive
Remember this motto to live by:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!" >>
Corky,
I love this 'Southern Philosophy !!
Now, excuse me, while I go Party Hearty all night, then go do the 'River Run'
tomorrow afternoon !! YEEE HAAAWWW !!!
Chuck G.
Message 12
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Thanks John, for the idea and the photos.
I can't help but notice that virtually everyone has sanded down or shaped their
wooden landing gear struts from the top to the bottom brackets. It does look
good and saves weight. However, I once had an off field landing in a Flybaby
and the wooden legs broke like toothpicks. So I haven't done any sanding or
shaping with the Piet gear thinking that the amount of weight saved may not be
worth the loss of extra strength. Any comments?
Dave Paulsen
Message 13
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----- Original Message -----
From: David Paulsen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Torque Tube
Dave,
I suspect that it really depends upon the species of wood that is used in the
landing gear. Maybe the Fly Baby used a wood in the gear that was not suitable
for shock loads? Or maybe the wood used had flaws in it such as pitch pockets,
grain run out, or was not a quarter cut specimen. You might want to get
the EAA book "Wood ???" which will give guidelines for suitable woods and the
required characteristics for aircraft use.
I used two pieces of 1/2" ash laminated together for each gear leg and then used
an old fashioned draw knife to form the airfoiled cross section. This gear
has survived some terrible landings that I have made without any damage.
John
Thanks John, for the idea and the photos.
I can't help but notice that virtually everyone has sanded down or shaped their
wooden landing gear struts from the top to the bottom brackets. It does look
good and saves weight. However, I once had an off field landing in a Flybaby
and the wooden legs broke like toothpicks. So I haven't done any sanding or
shaping with the Piet gear thinking that the amount of weight saved may not
be worth the loss of extra strength. Any comments?
Dave Paulsen
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